Thank you Erin, I think every speaker manufacturer should have a brochure with this kind of measurements attached to it. This is the kind of data that helps you do an informed decision to buy an audio product.
The only company I know of that is totally transparent, and releases all kinds of measurements of their speakers, is Genelec. They have nothing to hide. Other manufacturers can't afford to make these graphs... If everyone looked at graphs like this and aimed for smooth, somewhat flat, even response that can be contoured to the Harman curve, etc, with excellent off axis response vertically and horizontally, eventually 95% of people would end up owning Genelec monitors after starting with budget stuff.
These speakers are worth several monthly wages for me but I love music and my wife does too. I am aware these can last a lifetime and I am willing to invest in these and in a Marantz Cinema 50
I just love that directivity balloon video . What a great way of conveying the most important info on a speaker that is missing from every other reviewer I know .Your Klippel measuring system just keeps on giving and makes your reviews unique and essential
That's a lot! I don't think there are one million people who care about this stuff. But if they're out there, hopefully they'll stumble upon this channel one day and find it useful!
The Harman response curve is a result of Dr. Olive's research in listener preferences. I did a quick search of his old blogspot posts but couldn't find the curve. Sean Olive posted it before, but Amir's HDI-1600 measurements nail the Harman curve.
Hey great video. I just bought a new pair of the HDI-3800. You talk about a weird resonate sound at a certain bass frequency. In either this video or the 698 vs HDI-3800 video. I think I know what may be causing that. The plastic rings that go around each speaker, I feel causes this.
I know it takes a lot of dedicated time and effort and really appreciate your reviews and process. I'd really love to see you, dissect, I mean review any of the Emotiva Airmotive line.
Hey Erin, Great review! I have 4 HDI 3600s and a 4500 here in a 5.2.4 setup and found your review and comments mostly spot-on. Only point I would like to make regarding the bass reproduction is the issue of having speakers that do go down to 20 Hz or so and their interface with room modes. Since unlike subwoofers the choice for positioning is very limited and unless your running DSP on them the fact of them being full range can many times be more of a negative than a positive. We might just be better off with speakers that will blend well with a few good subs. I just recently changed out a pair of old HSU subs for 2 SVS SB2000's and using Audyssey plus the Editor app am very pleased with the bottom end response. Looking forward to your 4500 center speaker measurements and review, no one else seems to pay any attention to centers and unless you have a transparent screen, or none at all, good multich reproduction can be a problem. I actually don't watch a lot of movies but multichannel music files and upsampled stereo take up 95% of my listening now, so a good match with L & R is extremely important to many of us. cent' anni Sal (aka Sal1950 at ASR and around the net)
I understand and completely agree that having the ability to reproduce bass frequencies at various spots in the listening room is most likely going to be more beneficial. Still, people want floorstanders for a reason (and that reason is to not run subs, in most cases). Of course, one could also say that having the capability to go low in floorstanders doesn't mean you can't also run subwoofers which overlap the bandpass region and, in essence, provide the "arrayed subwoofer" approach.
I’ve had the 3800’s for two years now. Awesome speakers 🔊🔊🔊 and I don’t need measurements to tell me that, my ears tell me. If y’all go by measurements only, you’re either going to be disappointed or miss out on great speakers.
MY FRIEND ERIN: THANK YOU FOR THAT VERY SPECIFIC EXPLENATION OF THE AUDIO OUTPUT OF THIS SPEAKER, YOU ALSO SHOWED US DIAGRAMS THAT ARE EASY FOR US TO UNDERSTAND !
I had to choose between these and the R11s. I went with Kef. 3800s are definitely more “fun” but I went with the sophistication of the the R11s. Kefs are dynamic as well but also offer critical listening capabilities for the price point. I get them on that sale through a dealer and got them for a little over 4500 OTD. It pays to go old school pick up the phone.
I doubt things have changed much, but waaaay back in the day a $998 pair of speakers, MSRP, only cost the retailer $207. Total. For the pair. We'd blast them out the door at $598/pair on sale. And they never went lower than that. This was 1983.
:)) now after this review I'm confuse. I has reading and listen to other reviewers and most of them praise those loudspeakers. I want them because I am a owner of JBL's and I like how they present the sound, but I'm not sure if they are good for music or are the primary focus is for movies being in synthesis series. Any tips Erin? Can those be good primary for music?
I’ve had the 3800’s for almost two years, and I can tell you they are great for music. They do require 250-300 hours to be fully broken in, so take that into consideration.
Great review! I was torn between these and RBH. Man after this review I'm glad I went with the RBH SV-831R for my front 3. Great job with the review. You got a new subscriber here!
Really interesting review. I was hoping these would be outstanding for music with all that surface area and JBL science. If you are able to, it would be great to see you discuss the new Paradigm Founder 100F and 120H. Thanks!
Finally more people doing proper speaker measurements. Subscribed! Would be cool if you could do some measurements on well known British speakers like Proac, Spendor etc. no real data on those. Don’t know if you have heard them before and what you think.
@@ErinsAudioCorner I’ve been using REW to take measurements and the in room response of my Proac dt8 are pretty flat. A tad bumpy but not much. Of course that is just from the listening position. Would be great if you could do a few REW sessions to help us novices out with measurements and how to read them. That I find the difficult part. Reading them. Also is there a way to kinda sorta measure a speakers response with REW? I assume it wouldn’t be that accurate, but would you do it with gated measurements? Thanks and great channel!
Excellent review as usual. Only suggestion would be to try and shorten these down as best you can. My suggestion would be to stop explaining all your graphs in every video as that would be an easy way to cut out some time and supplement that with maybe a RU-vid series with a summary overview of how to read all of them and then more in-depth look at each type of graph that way you can just link the playlist of all of them and anybody that needs a refresher can watch the 10 minute overview or if someone wants a good understanding of a what one specific graph can tell them they go to that individual video. Lets say you were able to strip out 5-10 minutes doing that would mean smaller file size, easier to edit, and shorter script or things to remember to say which will make reviews easier to do. Edit: Also if you could review the Paradigm Founder series that would be awesome, just like Gene said I think the 70 LCR would be a neat speaker to look at.
Yea, I plan to stop with the detailed explanations. I wanted to have a few that I could reference back to that cover a couple different designs (bookshelf, floorstanding speaker). Now that I have that (the D&D8c, Kef R3 and this speaker) I can just use them as references. Still, sometimes things need to be explained to give more context to a particular case or provide explanation for why the data is what it is and how it relates to what I heard. It's a balancing act for sure. Heck, I've even considered doing "live" reviews for some speakers. I might try that with an upcoming bookshelf speaker review. That way I can also take questions in real time. We'll see. Thanks for the feedback. :)
Hi: Erin. I injoyed the video thanks so much. I do have a question for you. I'm debating between purchasing the Arendal 1973 Towers vs JBL HDI-3800 I'm pretty sure it's goong to be the Arendal. I just wanted to get your take on this. Thanks in advanced and keep on Rocking.
Really thorough man, just subbed.. Do you think the ~300Hz thing is some sort of driver coloration? Could you talk about the so-called “pattern flip” with some speakers with waveguides? Thanks!
Good balanced review. I quickly paused the video and looked through the measurements and then listened to what you described and discussed the attributes and detriments. Standard compression driver problems. And I'm not a fan of this type of horn. There is design choices made here that are readily apparent in the measurements and in your listening comments. Oh, although i have different musical tastes I to enjoy loud if it's supposed to be! Good to hear someone actually pushing speakers.
Anther great video review Erin! I know they're an older speaker but do you have any plans to review the Revel F208/C208? They're the same price and am interested in both for the front sound stage for my HT.
Does the spike in the MIR at about 270 hertz compaired to the PIR perhaps suggest that some of the problem you heard in that region is caused by the room?
I addressed that in the video but apparently edited it out. It looks like it could but when I moved the speakers and took subsequent measurements that MIR peak shifted to a different frequency. I also noticed the issue in my home theater room. So it seems to follow the speakers.
Thanks for a great review -appreciate the honesty -personally way over priced in Australia for the performance you get $10000 here insane price gouge -considering Indonesia is next door and yet they ship them to the USA and sell them for 30 to 40% less. I still have a few speakers to play with and at 4 metres I hit 112db (782 watts)from speakers made in 1987 and there good to 25 hz and there not a horn. But to call this a "horn" with 90 db efficiency? It is a wave guide plain and simple. Horns I had many years ago were 100 db and higher depending on system and ultimately they were too coloured for me to enjoy others loved it ! Iron Maiden concert level you got it -terrible for your hearing
Great work! It’s so hard to speaker shop in the online world and this helps. I have some Paradigm 75Fs but looking for something with larger woofer. Possibly the new BMR towers or the Salk Sound SS7 I’m looking for the biggest sound stage possible! If you have recommendations, I’m listening!
@@Smellslikegelfling you need to invest time & gain knowledge, as a vast majority of audio retailers are absolutely clueless - Erins reviews are priceless, but you also need to know how your room responds - REW is your friend
Very informative review, thank you! The decision to forego the classic JBL configuration of a 12" or 15" bass woofer with two 8" is somewhat puzzling, since many artifacts are introduced when doing so (cone area of one 12" is greater than two 8"). It's a puzzling decision. The re-release of the L100 brings back that sound, and I hope to see that comparison here someday (4312* is another candidate, can't remember what letter they're up to nowadays). For some reason JBL seems to be suggesting that this new design is their summit but it just seems to create more problems than it solves, doesn't it? Fortiunately they still sound good!
The 3800 actually has 3 x 8" woofers. Two of them crossover at 800hz, and the top one crossovers at 1.8khz. Almost the same area as the Klipsch RF7iii (2 x 10" woofers). Both should have spectacular bass performance.
@@patrickmiller4987 you are correct. I now own the 3800’s, and they have very solid bass, but I wouldn’t call it spectacular. Sub definitely required for full range sound.
@@ErinsAudioCorner makes sense. From Amir’s video it makes sense that you can pick out a speaker’s tonality problems listening in mono. But listening in stereo represents a normal listening environment and probably adds to your opinion of the speaker. What typical person listens to speakers in mono? Glad you do both
hey Erin, during your objective data, i heard microphone *bzz* sounds when you were speaking. not always, but during the beginning of certain words. during your subjective sections, i didn't hear this problem.
Yep. Mic failed. Notice at the very end I was using a different mic even though I was in the same room? It’s because I realized my stupid boom mic failed. That was after 3 attempts of recording the objective data. 🙄
Hey Erin I talked to a JBL Synthesis dealer about their amplifiers since I was considering these speakers for my home theater. He said their amps have special EQs designed for their speakers. Does that makes sense and do you think that would help their performance?
It depends on what your goal is. These have a mostly neutral response with the ability to get loud. The Selah speakers were more “reference” IMHO but don’t have the output capability the JBL does. They’re really different speakers.
What's your budget? I use Crown XLS 1502 in my home theater. Awesome amps. Though, some don't consider them "audiophile" (which I think is silly talk). If you are interested in checking those out, I've provided an Amazon affiliate link which earns me a small commission at no additional cost to you. Otherwise, you can just google them. I'd say give that a shot and if you don't like it, send it back. :) Though, it does appear they are sold out nearly everywhere at the moment. amzn.to/3JSi4r3
@@ErinsAudioCorner My budget is around 1500€ which I assume is enough for the amplifier. Which version of that amplifier you recommend me to go with? The 525W or 350W? As I see it's sold out and even here I'm unable to find it. Which would be a second option for some amplifier that is still in sale? Btw, would you recommend some other speakers in the similar price tag than these if I want them clearly for listening to music? (I listen mostly to all kind of music but I would primarily go for something that can reproduce vocals and musical instruments like violin, guitar... Something with a nice wide stage. You said the Revel speakers were better than these. Which model it was? In the end I guess as a someone who's not really that much of audiophile and have Sennheiser HD800s I'm not sure if I ever will hear the lack of some little aspects that you hear. But anyway it would be nice to know some other speakers to compare it in real some day when I go check them . Thank you
Dear Erin, how sure you are in the measurements of horizontal directivity of your setup? on 200Hz, the wavelength is 1.7m while the radiating diaphragm is < 0.2m. IMHO, it shall be in Fraunhofer zone, not Fresnel.
@@ErinsAudioCorner May I please kindly suggest you to have a discussion with Clippel on the topic? It may be worth mentioning that while performing system identification in KL space (here, spherical harmonics) , one needs also to examine [inverse] Fisher matrix and Cramer-Rao bounds.
@@ErinsAudioCorner that shall not affect LF. Still, as a retired mathematician, sr. audio scientist, etc, I recommend contacting Clippel and question them on hiding the error margins for the measurements they provide.
So far, the Dutch & Dutch 8c, Revel F226Be and some of the ribbon-type speakers have had the widest soundstage. The DD8c really surprised me at how wide the soundstage is compared to the actual radiation pattern.
Believe it or not, mono is how initial subjective evaluation is done when evaluating a new crossover, as level & tonal balance is easier to distinguish in mono - but no I’m not suggesting that mono gives clues about imaging - that’s stereo all the way 😀
so how is this a 2.5 way? you're explanation did not make sense to me. if there are 4 drivers and the bottom 2 share one frequency range, the middle plays another, and the tweeter plays another.....that's 3 way isn't it? Not that it matters😅
It's hard to say as I've not heard the F208. The HDI-3800 get downright loud but I imagine the F208's have a more neutral response without some of the issues I found in the HDI.
They probably don't try for sub-bass extension because JBL is aiming for higher maximum SPL with low distortion and expects home theaters in this price bracket to have at least one subwoofer. There is frankly no reason to forego subwoofers, other than space constraints or room aesthetics.
Agreed on this. I’ve had the 3800’s for about 3 years, and they produce plenty of bass for music except for the lowest organ notes. A sub would be needed for that, along with home theater rumble.
I've owned the primes if you mean the ones below the pinnacles. Very good speakers but the high end. That tweeter was annoying. And if you have a big room they do not like to be pushed too hard. In a smaller room if they're not driven too hard they do okay. Just lacked that magic for music though
When I compare the spec sheets published by "JBL" today and compare them to the ones published by JBL back in the day, it makes me sad. JBL LSR6332 (discontinued): jblpro.com/en-US/site_elements/lsr6332-spec-sheet "JBL": www.jblsynthesis.com/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-masterCatalog_Harman/default/dwa1c4f4e3/pdfs/SC03179_NA_JBL%20HDI-3800%20Spec%20Sheet.pdf It's just not the same company anymore.
If you could integrate a powered subwoofer to each of your front LCR speakers, along with a LFE subwoofer to give you more of a full range sound, would that be a good idea?
Depends on how well you integrate the subwoofer, really. If you integrate it well enough (with time, phase and amplitude) then it becomes a part of the speaker.
@@ErinsAudioCorner that’s what I was thinking, I have a few older definitive technology subwoofers with all the built in adjustments sitting around and a JL audio e112. I also have REW with a mic, and figured if I set it up correctly it would give me a more dynamic sound
