I’d say that’s a sound opinion. As an OG, here’s my take. As mentioned, E MX opens up riding opportunities that haven’t existed for a long time. Today’s youth seem to look down on Gas MXrs. They’ve been taught gas is evil and the noise and pollution they create reinforces there negative perception of them. Today’s youth won’t have the same feelings about E MX bikes. Start em young and they’re likely to continue evolving MX in ways we never imagined.
@@Erick-di9gm Bro... If you own a truck you're not a true moto guy. I ride my bike to the trails/track with my tools in my bag and my dirt tires on my buddies Rhino. Sell everything but your bike then you can talk.
Well said. My parents got me a pw-50 for Christmas at 4 years old. Now you just get your small child a Stacyc and they can ride it in a lot more places.
Jeff is certainty noteworthy in the sport no doubt. But we call so many people a "legend" today, it is unfair to people like DeCoster,--who we do not forget, (unlike most crowned legends in a comments section), for generations. Until this latest generation that replaces him with Dean Wilson.
@@Dane-o7q I am sure Stark does not have to make a profit because they are getting government funds to push electric. The Jap companies are tired of being pushed around, so they are actually lowering the 4-stroke prices by thousands of dollars, (and probably not making a profit.), to make it harder for the unfair competition, (as you show). Bottom line? If we support government force, we will get government force. And we should have rejected the 4-stroke, as it was forced on the industry by a dictatorship called the EPA.
Well, if it makes you feel better, I raced with him in pro motocross and supercross in 1995 😂. Last race of that season was PA Steel City AMA outdoor nationals.
I dedicated my life to MX from childhood until around age 21, but I had no backing and without serious money, you just can't compete to win at the pro level. Then, after years of not riding, I went to ride again at a track in So Cal on a regular practice day, and Jeff Emig was there. He was amazing, as one would expect, but what blew me away till this day was what I witnessed him do in an area away from the track. There were big piles of dirt in a large lot, and he just putted around for a sec then blitzed one, and he sailed from one end of the place clear across to the other, landing on the downside of another massive pile. But here's the thing: As a pro myself, I would never have even imagined that was possible, as the space between the piles was so wide that you could easily fit a large house and with some yard space around it between those piles. AND HE WOULD HAVE CLEARED THE HOUSE EVEN IF IT WERE TWO STORIES AND HAD A STEEP ROOF!! I almost crapped myself when he did that. I still can't get over it. Then I saw him sitting in the back of his box van and he had this look of just being a cool guy, unassuming, and that you could approach him and talk to him. He totally looked like a regular, friendly person. I couldn't approach though, unfortunately, because to me, I was so overwhelmed at witnessing the level of skill he possesses, that basically to me he is a god on a motorcycle. Even right now, as I recall seeing him do that jump, my mind is short circuiting. Words cannot express how incredible that actually was.
I saw Emig at Perris practice days all the time back around 2001 or so. I accidentally got in his way once and made him roll VP leap. I was so ashamed.
There was no reason why you could not build your bike to compete. You were not fast enough. Neither was I. Just admit it. "Jeff Emig was there. He was amazing, as one would expect, but what blew me away till this day was what I witnessed him do in an area away from the track." Like that. :)
@@EarthSurferUSA You're right. I collected the used tires at the track to ride and sometimes race on, enjoyed that my vw van blew up on occasion and once that cost me a series title, always had at least one item on me which was hand-me-down gear, worked full-time, trained, missed all social events for years... I could bury your ignorance but I just decided it's not worth my time. I rode with Bob Hannah and he told me I had immense potential. Those were his words. Go F yourself. You have no idea what it means to commit your life to something, Surfer dude. Hang loose, Brah 🤙🏼
Man, seeing Jeff Emig's name and seeing him for the first time in 20+ really hit me in the feels. He basically saved my life gangs and got me into mx when i was younger. I would probably be dead or in prison right now if it wasn't for him, and he has no idea. Crazy for me.
Well, you have more options than that to not be a criminal also. But, MX was sure a good influence. It did not keep me out of trouble (no problem with that), it inspired me to get into manufacturing and engineering, and I now port 2-stroke engines for a living (could not get a engineering job after 8 years of part time study for 2 degrees). If MX had not happened, (our free market opportunity too, or was.), I have no idea what I would be doing for a living. It was my 2-stroke engine business that got me out of poverty.
I am getting 30+ min on a single charge. Loamy conditions, A rider. All moto. I raced Jeff on my Varg in April at BillaDilla in TX. He went 1-1 and I was able to go 2-2. I started next to him both moto’s.
That's a really cool memory that you got to make for yourself. Always do your best and have fun. Never quit when you still have something to give. It's not a funeral, make some noise.
I'm assuming Emig was on a gas bike? Did you beat him off the start? I'm guessing that's one area these electric bikes would have over the gas bikes due to lack of shifting. I agree with Emig they should not be racing with gas bikes.
This is the most comprehensive and well articulated review of this bike. It never occured to me that having instant max-torque would make throttle control over bumps chanllenging, because that rear tyre would spin up more quickly when unloaded compared to an ICE bike.
You have instant max torque on a gas bike when you are in the right gear at the perfect rev range as well…. Have a 2007 CR250, 2021 gas gas 350, and a Stark. The stark is easiest in these situations, the cr250 feels impossible. When I was 20 I remember loving my cr 250 thinking it was the best bike to have, now I ride my 2007 and wonder how I ever raced one…
One of the best honest reviews I've ever seen. Seems like an incredible bike; leading the move to electric. However, I'm old and I LOVE the sound of a 2 stroke! I guess life just keeps moving on...
My love for the 2 stroke is precisely why I want to see the electric bikes stomp the modern 4 strokes into obscurity. 4 strokes are only a thing because of the AMA ruleset that massively favors them, so let's simply open the flood gates and see who wins.
the Absolute Pure Ear candy sound of the two stroke will NEVER be replaced! I remember my 125 riding that was just music when it was Tapped! the sport has moved on and now everyone is on 4 strokes, The last year I raced I rode a 4 stroke a few times the power/ Torque was incredible but they just sound like a monstrous fart! I would rather be on a 2 stroke any day you can't beat the sound of a Perfectly tuned 125.
If Jeff is saying that the power is scary fast, it has to be fast! I love that these electric dirt bikes are being developed, would love to see one that could run a full race no problem, without having to think about conserving the battery, just pushing that machine to the limits... I think to own one of these machines they need to carry more battery capacity and also spare batteries have to be affordable and very easy to swap in and out of the frame and charger. It is very nice to see you Jeff, you were an awesome commentator when you were doing that work back a few years ago - one of the best, for sure, possibly one of the best ever for sure. It is cool to suddenly see you pop up in this video - great video, solid info... Cheers
I had a Christini AWD kit on my 2006 CRF302. It was like magic at Perris, Glen Helen, and especially off-road. The powered front wheel made landing cross-rutted or riding downhill in deep sand or rocks a non-event. The front wheel simply pulls the rear wheel in behind it. It seems like a no-brainer to add an electric hub motor to the front wheel of off-road bikes.
Awesome to see Jeff's reactions to the Varg! I grew up riding a YZ80 and a YZ250, and watching and looking up to him, McGrath, RC, Stewart, and even Hurricane Hannah. Recently, I built a 29kW Surron and am getting back into MX a bit. So fun. And I was riding my Surron at a small forest track in the middle of nowhere, in Ukraine, and a guy showed up with a Varg! Probably the only one in Ukraine. Was so cool.
That was the most in depth explanation of the feeling of this bike vs. Gas powered....I feel as if I already rode a stark varg or similar e-bike....awesome video! Thanks
Ideas: Put a clutch lever on it that cuts the throttle curve (anti-throttle mode or regenerative braking/rear engine brake or decreases the throttle curve). Swappable slide out battery packs. Different size battery packs (for stunt riders wanting minimal weight), traction control (via difference between front wheel and rear wheel speeds), wheelie control via pitch sensors, horn (single track pass request), programmable throttle curves, programmable throttle delay, programmable audio feedback for virtual gears and RPM for those who are used to using gears and RPMs to time jumps. Without a clutch, I'd be afraid of the whiskey throttle that covering the clutch often prevents.
@@philiprourke7732 the varg is fine for local amateur use cases. it could probably get along well for pros in supercross. national amateur and pro levels require more than the current iteration can handle (3 15-minute motos for amateur nationals, 30+2 for pros). that's asking too much of the current battery situation. but iunno, if I could still ride a bike (spinal cord injury on a CBR 600), I'd own a husky 300 2T, YZF 450, and a Stark. the biggest issue i see isn't so much the limitations of the varg (which are obvious) but the deeply conservative base of the mx crowd - which tbf, fits b/c you need land and country/space to ride...so it's a fairly red fan base that could give fuck all about global warming/environment, and so forth.
@@Erick-di9gm1 hour ride time on track and up to 3 hours in single trails . Can’t complain about that ! I went to ride park in Victoria on mine which is fast dele sand track , I rode for 1.5 hours in total and only spent 15 mins charging , left there with 30% left
Sound is a HUGE deal in MY opinion. You are 100% correct in that conventional bikes are very loud and disruptive when close to neighborhoods. Electric bikes would totally change that. Thanks for the video!
What about aircraft? What about heavy trucks, what about Merc's with loud pipes. It's one sunday in every 6 months, people need to live and let live. I travel in eastern Europe and this is their attitude.
I have the 60 hp version that I am using as a trail bike rather than an MXer. Has an 18" rear wheel, kickstand, and hand guards. With that use and in one of the lower modes the range is about 60 miles. For longer rides I use my gas bike. As Jeff said, it does take some getting used to. But, I think the learning curve is worth it. It's really nice to ride something quiet. In real rocky technical areas being able to hear the rear tire and when it is about break loose is a real advantage. Great and very fair reviewJeff- Thanks!
@@michaelmassucco993 Generally I ride my Varg in mode one which is around 42 HP. This is about the same as my KTM 250 XCFW, although the Varg has way more low end. But, I can go at least 100 miles on the KTM. The farthest I have gone on the Varg is a touch over 60 miles. It was down to 27% charge. It hadn't gone into limp mode at that point but I did not push it as getting stranded in the desert is not my idea of a good time. I rode it once in mode 5 which is the full 60hp and it was way too fast for my skill level. And it also swilled the charge at that level. I have learned to use the re-generation feature on downhills to up the range a bit. I think enough of the build quality and the components on the bike that if Stark comes up with batteries that provide more range and if cost isn't too crazy I would considering upgrading.
@@michaelmassucco993 You can set the power as low as 10 hp if you wish and have 5 modes you can switch through on the fly and change them how ever you like. But just like a gas bike a battery has a character to it as well, at certain power settings it will be more happy than others, some people has mentioned that the bike feels more snappy at 40+ hp and below that it looses a bit too much torque, but for a beginner that is probably a good thing. Taking the power down to 40 hp will not magically give you 40 mile more range, depending on conditions it might not do much at all since you are not constantly on power, even at 80 you are likely only using that full power for very short bursts. People in the comments here forget that if you gonna run the battery dry in 30 minutes you gotta go very hard for 30 minutes, that means you will need to be very fit and a good rider, and it depend on the surface too, if its very loose, you obviously waste more power just trying to get it going, if its more hard packed you can easily get power and waste less of it and probably run a lower power setting. I have not been on a motocross bike in 25 years, last time was on a 80 cc with almost 30 hp... 60 kg, it was terrifying. No protective gear other than a helmet in very rocky and overgrown dangerous conditions... insanity, miracle I'm still alive! xD
Most excellent/honest review I've seen! Thank you Fro! I must admit, at 63, my days of burning a tank of gas, filling up and heading out again are far removed. I really want to ride one!
Finally somebody who actually gives an honest opinion on this thing and doesn't just simp cuz they being paid, would expect no less from an OG like emig. Personally I think these things are really cool but tbh they scare me a lot and don't want them anywhere near the pro circuit. The idea of them just being something different to a combustion engine I love, my fear is with this whole push to make everything electric. I'm afraid that there won't be any precautions taken and just like how 4strokes killed 2 virtually overnight, my fear is that with them getting better, more people having them, and finally the global push to go electric that itll start with with certain practice tracks being electric only, then the tracks that will allow both the guys on gas bikes will become the minority and with dropping sales and outside powers putting pressure on track owners to either go only electric or shut down just for the fringe group who like to ride gas they'll have no choice. I hope I'm really wrong on this and that theyll just be there own thing within a culture of gas bikes but with the world we live in today & and seeing how fast things can change within just a few years I'm weary. I don't ever wanna see the day where yami Honda etc are no longer in the business of off-road racing combustion engines for motorcycles.
@@Toniitony I did read recently about a small device that has a speaker and plugs into an electric dirt bike to make 2 stroke sounds (either a Ultra Bee or Varg, dont' remember which). Seems like a trivial feature to add to any of the apps (Kilowatt, etc) used for controlling Surrons/Vargs/etc, just need a speaker. What you don't realize after coming from a noisy gas bike is how much you CAN actually hear. You can hear the engine's whine, the noise the tires make on the dirt or pavement, as well as any other odd noise that may arise. You do learn what a higher rpm sounds like vs a lower in a similar way to a gasser, it's just not as pronounced. I enjoy riding around in the woods at night, more or less undetected. Come across a lot more wildlife on quiet electric (that's both good and bad, depending on the animal). The thrill you get from the electric linear acceleration and deceleration (adjustable regenerative braking) will feel familiar, yet different. The lack of a clutch on most of these electric dirt bikes isn't as much of an issues as you may think unless you are trying to do trials type clutch dumping for jumping. Some bikes do have actual clutches (Electric Motion ePure for instance) and it seems more upcoming models have that as an option. Since the electric bikes have near instantaneous torque and acceleration you can approximate many situations with just an aggressive throttle.
When there's handfuls of guys that start showing up to the track with them and there's certain tracks where noise complaints are already threatening a tracks ability to do business and you top that off with gov. who has a strange agenda to make everything electrical I just see this possibly creeping up way faster than I thought. It already seems as though every year bike makers have to make the bike more quiet than last and it's all these rediculous regulations being passed constantly. I really hope I'm wrong
Given how crazy those in power have gotten your fears are valid. These blue state goons love using words like BAN, like they banned 2 stroke watercraft from many lakes starting with Lake Tahoe.
I grew up and rode to the 1st Saddleback Park, Ca. from high school on a Yamaha 250 Big Bear. I'm 75 now with an electric bicycle. The new park had the Banzai Downhill start.
I am a fan of electric bikes opening the opportunity to ride them in a location closer to a more populated city, nicer areas like close to the beach. It would be awesome to open the market to the wealthier areas and family’s in Huntington Beach/San Clemente where noise complaints wood shut a place down with gas bikes. Now you and your family can moto near your house at the beach, then load up the gas bikes and head to the desert if you want to off-road. Sucks how far out you have to live to be able to ride gas bikes everyday without the 2 hour commute and deal with crappy areas out in the sticks to ride now adays.
words from people living in southern california. I get it, i grew up there and moved away when i was 29. I can ride right out of my garage as it is now. This is a concern of the city man.
Yup, lived in San Diego and the closest legal place to ride off-road was Pine Valley 48 miles east of town. Pretty much negates going for a putt after work.
@@Focalpoint100 Exactly, in Utah no body cares about noise and there are trails everywhere! When you live in a desert there is no concern for sound level.
The problem is that the rear brake doesn’t really have the same effect as a clutch. I think it would be fairly straightforward to have an electronic clutch lever and the ECU could simulate clutch slip
@@michealGRuns You can use the back brake as a clutch in corners and if you want a clutch for revving up the engine into the powerband you dont need that on electric. Theres instant power all the time!
@@rickardnorberg7453 I think you forget about inertia. When you drop the clutch, the instantaneous torque of a gas bike can be 4x higher than the dyno number and that's because of rotating mass. Electric bikes have a lot of rotating mass that would be very helpful if a clutch was added.
Exactly…. Kinda like the funny pic of the electric car towing a gas powered generator around to charge the car with…. Shows you the brain capacity of the green new deal libs…
Exactly…. Shows the intellect of those who think we need to go all electric. We’ll save the world by using our gas generators, coal burning or natural gas burning power plants to charge our all electric cars and bikes…🤦🏻♂️. We won’t even go into how environmentally friendly battery production and disposal is NOT.
Hey Jeff, you did a great job testing the Stark bike. I totally agree with you about the fact that electric MX bikes should race in their own class/category just like they do with Motogp and MotoE championships. It doesn't make any sense to mix the electric MX bike with the regular combustion engine motocross machines. Other than that it is a pleasure to see you ride, your style is still intact.
Thank you for sharing this video and Jeff Emig is still a Beast and a legend and a super cool person on and I got to meet him at Atlanta Supercross a few times in the 90s and always enjoyed watching him racing #MXLocker #JeffEmig
The best E-bike video yet. The machine feedback has always been an issue with EV's. Easy: Engineer an audio response. Charging? Why not change batteries?
Batteries are heavy and expensive. This one probably weighs 100+ lbs. Not impossible but still bloody heavy. Simply have power at the track and a proper charger. Saves the cost of a generator along with the noise.
@@bryanwhitton1784 I don't see how weight is a determining factor. Simply have a dolly that holds the battery. Like power tools, unplug the dead battery and plug in a charged one. Maybe not practical for poor patch honkeys but pros and rich people could do it. For that matter a spare bike would solve the problem too.
Stark should do a bike that mimics a 150 in my opinion. Max 50hp setting, also 80-90kg, kyb suspension, and a way bigger range for longer riding. The perfect bike in my opinion
I am the same age as Jeff but 1 year older I assume. Been riding since 1978. I would love to ride with Jeff or Jeremy to just experience how fast these guys still are so many years later and being older like myself. I tool around now on a Surron with motor and controller upgrade and it's a fun experience.
as someone who watched emig as a kid - AND I'M OLD - it's awesome to see him looking so dang good. in my mind i was expecting him to look like like a 100 year old man in rocking chair lol. looking lean brother. makes me wanna get back on my diet.
SV should put a clutch lever on there that electronically limits power level proportional to the amount the lever is pulled in. Also, a "shift lever" to change power settings on the fly with ur foot. 1 down, 5 up. NEAT! (don't forget the swappable battery packs and engine noises). W, Jeff Emig.
Fro, I miss seeing you on the track! I agree that this would start with the amateurs and work its way up. I thought with other videos, it was closer to a 30+2, but thanks to you, I now know better. Miss your battles on the track. You were always one of my favorites! Shit, still are!
Love you man! I was there when the crazy dude was yelling “ 8:42 coopers wife”! And before your winning moto you couldn’t helped yourself. Coopers wife was super hot and you wondered what the hell?? I’m from canada and loved your interactions before you lined up. You won like I thought you would and proved you were the goat that year. Thx Jeff
Great review Jeff, I think this will be similar to what RC car racing is with nitro vs electric. Each class has pros and cons and their place too without having to combine them. 😊
There is Formula 1 and Formula E for similar reasons, and hope to see these bikes follow a similar path. That said, I'd love to have one, along with my gas bike, and really be able to start riding more locally due to the noise issues I face if I break my 2 stroke out in my neighborhood currently. Cheers to new tech and pushing forward the sport in new directions 👍🏻
Naturally, hating electric cars as most do i was extremely sceptical and critical at first… until i rode one, most fun i’ve ever had on 2 wheels in the last 15 years. Have to remember an electric dirt bike serves a different purpose to an electric car.. an electric car claims to “save the environment” and be green and all that other BS. The Stark is all about pushing the boundaries of performance and handling, it’s a “heavy” bike on the scale but it feels like a MTB with a throttle, so confidence inspiring it’s insane. No pitching in the air, has engine braking but no pitching from the rotating mass from a gas engine. They are insane, not a replacement for a Gas bike, but damn everyone i know who’s ridden one including me want one!
Jeff makes great points. I think that most riders rely on being in a certain gear to know if they're at the right speed for a certain jump. Stark could create 'digital gears' with a dummy shifter that has nothing more in it than a sensor. They could even have a physical clutch lever that limits amperage. Everything can be programmed.
seems like it be easy to get whisky throttle. Needs a "clutch" so you can keep finger on it for those oh shit situations. That way can pull in and it would kill power.
I’d need a clutch in the bush, I’d definitely get whiskey throttle on technical up hills , especially once in getting tied . Clutch is huge to me., it’s my second throttle control.
Id imagine by custom tuning the maps you could soften the whiskey throttle. Plus you could be switching between maps depending on what part of the circuit your on. I imagine it could open up a whole new set of possibilities for racing.
Jeff is a wise man , from the start he say 80 cv was too much ...for sure the throttle need some fine tuning to get the most of this bike ...thanks Jeff for your opinion
For those making all of the gas generator comments, that’s the deadest horse you can beat on. Let me say it loud for the people in the back: PEOPLE AREN’T BUYING THIS BIKE TO PLAY ECO-WARRIOR, THEY BUY IT BECAUSE IT’S A GREAT BIKE The vast majority of people who buy the Varg didn’t buy it BECAUSE it’s electric, it’s just a well-engineered machine with some different advantages/disadvantages as their internal combustion counterparts. It’s not the perfect bike for everyone but neither is :insert name of any other bike here:. Most Varg owners have at least one gas bike still in the stable. Gas bikes aren’t disappearing, nobody is coming in the night to take yours away because this bike exists. Now, can we all go back to having fun with dirt bikes again?
First of all Jeffro's gear is sick ! Once the Battery technology improves or having fast swap spare packs available could help with not charging in the pits. Maybe having gyro/ acceleration sensors to mitigate whiskey throttle through the braking bumps might help smooth it out. Otherwise the Future is Now 🤙🏽
Nice to hear a balanced opinion on the bike, but I am a bit confused on the battery times. I get around 3 x 20 mins easily on a battery on about 50hp (as do a lot of people on forums). For a professional doing multiple motos, they'd have multiple bikes and / or multiple batteries to make sure they can line up on the gate at 100% battery each time ... most professional race teams who race ICE bikes have multiple bikes and multiple motors available to them at the track.
About opening up more riding areas. Conceptually, yes, it could open up new riding areas. But will running generators to recharge the Varg for an extended riding day just create the same noise issue? I know Honda generators are relatively quiet, but the generator the Stark rep used was pretty beefy.
When I have a big get off in a moto and another bike smashes into the Varg's cell phone and breaks it, does the bike stay in that mode? Will it still run? Is that almost impossible to happen? Great vid btw Fro.
You do not have to have the phone on the bike to ride, everything functions as normal you just don’t have a display for battery % or mode. Lots of people have swapped to Flexx bars or different clamps that require the phone mount to go away. You do need to keep the phone base bit since it has the Bluetooth receiver but it’s a small plastic piece and can be zip tied behind the number plate.
@@icantdrift Thanks dude for the info. I was thinking they had to think of the bike getting thrashed in races. I know electric bikes seem to be the future of mx/sx...I want to ride one to see how it feels compared to my 450. How does the bike behave in the air, coming outta corners, etc.
Interesting concept for sure. Emig is awesome, I wish he was still commentating at the races. Back to this thing...Imagine a bunch of guys with these, all bring their gas generators to wait 1 hour or so to ride for 20 min maybe?? Not really saving the environment if you still have to use fuel to charge it?? I love Emig's mic's up responses to this thing...classic when he's in 80hp mode! LOL Thanks for sharing. This stuff will get there, but I hope we don't see the racing go this route...I love the sound of 4 strokes and 2 strokes.
Does the Varg have anything to do with saving the environment? NO. There are also a plethora of charging options. It’s a huge growth area for the sport not a 💯 replacement.
Really need alternatives to a gas generator… I wonder if tracks will supply electric charge points in the future? Could easily charge a small fee to the riders in order to recoup the setup costs. Another alternative is charging the Stark directly from an electric vehicle. Most EVs have this feature as standard. I’m pretty sure the Stark has around a 6KwH battery and most EVs are 70-100KwH. You could charge multiple times and only sacrifice 10-20% of your vehicles range.
That is a cool bike. Looks great, and works well even if it belongs in its own niche. And I like old dog Emig. I crossed his path many many years ago when he had just become a big deal and he had his arrogant moments. Old dog Emig just seems cool.
I agree, I have a small version, mx4 and absolutely luv it!.. it should be in its own category tho.. it’s my daily rider and I look fwd to every ride.. I do get range anxiety tho.. but plan and it’s not a problem.. my only regret is not buying it sooner!..
Why not just have two batteries…. Was so close to buy one but the whole range thing was why I got a new tx300 knowing all I have to do is refilling it w/mg
