Jim Johnston absolutely deserves some form of recognition. The impact of guys like Undertaker, The Rock, Stone Cold, Triple H, Vince McMahon, on and on and on owe SO MUCH to Jim's music. Comparing him against actual wrestling talent however is asinine.
@@GregHuffman1987 Ultimate Warrior said he wanted that in his Hall of Fame speech. And then right when you think John Cena had used up all his avenues to shout about charity...
Yeah - Jims take on this is an example of where his activity as part of the promotion takes away from his knowledge of what the fans enjoyed at the time. Johnston’s music is still getting massive numbers of clicks and likely he isnt getting any money for it either.
I think there’s a clear difference between writing an obituary of someone, with verifiable facts within it, versus lsitening to Dave’s opinion of what is good or not. For me I generally don’t really care what his opinion of things are but that’s mostly just because we have a different taste.
Corny, gotta tell you, I'm 63+ and an old-school wrestling fan. I was raised in the Midwest so naturally I hated Bobby Heenan the most, but you came the closest to matching that hatred (via GCW on TBS). Blassie, Albano, Grand Wizard, Gary Hart, Jimmy Hart, Lord Al Hayes, Big K, JJ Dillon - bless their hearts all - none came close to Heenan until you. I enjoy your podcasts, never miss them (although I generally go for the snippets these days). Keep up the good work and a joyous holiday season to you and your'n! Oh, and a Happy Hanukkah to Brian as well.
I'm the same on the podcasts. I love listening to Jim cutting promos on modern wrestling and his telling of wrestling history...but long segments of audio, no matter how entertaining, will eventually make me sleepy
Hopefully you aren't senial and bipolar like Jim is. Also, nobody liked Bobby Hernan. Morons only started kissing his ass after he retired, got sick and died. Everyone you just named are superior to him.
That's Cha nuu kah as Smokey Robinson would say. Heenan is one of the best entertaining people in wrestling. He reminds me of a WC Fields kind of comic. But he could draw heat. Just a lowlife manager, always cheating and making excuses lol.
Politician Of The Year: Chris Jericho Exhibitionist Of The Year: Mandy Rose Stoner Of The Year: Matt Riddle Why The Hell Did This Happen: Ric Flair's Last Match
Can't pay his wrestlers but knows how to spend it on an affair with women award- VKM You can't see me award- Miro 3 years of coming to wwe soon promos award- veer
@@micjamfamflippers2191 can't pay his wrestlers? They had 130 people under contract and 12 of them being paid multiple millions of dollars each per year. He had money to pay for those he wanted to have money to pay.
@@TheChristianNomad So employers should only pay those they want too? Braindead take. Why people say wwe is an echo chamber of one. He should pay everyone and feature the fan picks.
Always was a non entity. He always had an attraction to bad wrestling & the signs where always there that he would betray any good wrestling that he was interested in for acrobats, flips & bad wrestling. Dave is an imbecile.
Jim Johnston definitely should be in the hall of fame. He wrote the best songs of the most popular era of pro wrestling. Tons of people who haven't watched wrestling in years could hear Stone Cold's theme and get hyped
I got more entertainment out of her this year than almost anyone else who is currently in wrestling. Fuck it, make her an overall Performer Of The Year finalist.
Just further proof that Jim doesn't hold Japanese wrestling in high regard. Kawada and Taue more than deserve to be there and to deny it is absurd. Naito and Ibushi have had some of the best matches of the past decade.
Jim Johnston deserves recognition. He is to wrestling what John Williams is to movies. Imagine Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Jurassic Park, etc. without the genius of Williams' music behind it.
I won't pretend to be some wrestling historian but I'll say this .. when I hear Kota Ibushi ahead of a Paul Orndorf, or a Junkyard Dog or a Slaughter, I know this voting system is trash. Shame on Meltzer
Lol. I started giggling as soon as I saw this one pop up in my feed. When I saw that it was 30 mins long, I knew it would be good. Unka Dave segments are getting almost as good as Shitstain segments.
@@shaunk6925 never thought I'd like, see the day, bro, when someone would like, oust Shitstain, bro! But Meltzer has found a way to do it. Let that sink in...
Ibushi & Naito got in? Omg, that's absolutely insane. Kawada & Taue truly do deserve to be inducted as a tag team, incredible 7 year run with numerous classic matches and several main events that drew million dollar houses.
Naito was the biggest meach seller of teh past 10 years in japan Ibushi helps build the number 2 promotion in japan Cyberfight promotions formally ddt Sell out Sumo |Hall twicw a year bakc in 2015 Ibushi was teh ace of teh promotion somthign alot of the us people who neevr got in were never the promotional ace Oortin was neve ace The sintres were never ace al aces should og in not matter what hence why i think Miyahra shpuld go in Before punk for exmaple hebeen ace for 6 years Suwama also was thre prevois all japan ace same with Marufuji Suigiura and Shiozaki Cena was ace on Orton and even in RIOH Punk was never ace name any promotion and the ace s sould go in first then ebeyr oen below him and alos i put match quilty over all things people like jim owuld ca; end game the best movoe of all time sicne teh hold teh biggest gross
Dude I like Jim but Kawada and Taue were the pillars of All Japan Wrestling and we’re a legendary team who had legendary tag team matches that made huge money in Japan. Ibushi is puzzling though
@@maxpeacock9503 Because he hates people fawning over Japan and wants redneck barnyard wrestling from the 80s to be praised instead. Basically, xenophobia and/or jealousy.
@@duckmercy11 Considering Cornette praises Japanese wrestling and guys like Mr Fuji, Tatsumi Fujinami, Tojo Yamamoto, Inoki, Rikidozan, Tenryu, and especially Giant Baba, it's more like he's seen so much DDT comedy garbage from Japan over the last 15-20 years, he's suspicious of ANYTHING from Japan now, because of possible affiliation with DDT, doll wrestling, Twinkletoes McFingerbang, and his Hentai fetish he calls wrestling. It's not racist or sexist or xenophobic to hate the fact that there are people in the wrestling business that are bad at what they do, regardless of race/nationality.
I know Meltzer knows alot about wrestling history and wrestling in general but over the years he's proven that he's gone nuts.. Which is why i don't understand why people keep looking towards him for some sort of validation or someshit. Like who gives a shit what he thinks you know? Haha
I think people need to look to his opinions for what they are which is simply his opinion. If you share his taste of wrestling then his opinion may be of value to you because if you like similar things then what he says is good will probably be enjoyable for you. The issue that comes up with Dave and what he says is when people look to it for more than what it is. If you view what Dave says as a measure of objective worth then you’ll naturally be upset because all things Dave reflect his tastes. If you can view him for what he is then it shouldn’t bother you.
This is the same hall of fame that put in Sakaraba in before the Rock, Sting, Jericho, Triple H, the Rock n Roll and Midnight Express, Jim Crocket, etc becuase Meltzer is a Japanese MMA fan. Alvarez and Meltzer also spent years trying to discourage people from voting for Sting, the star babyface in one the biggest pro wrestling programs ever.
yes as he sould sicne saku b=raba ipact was beyond wrestling as well hell for around 5 years he was the biggest sports star inm japan not wrestling/mma only sport as whole he was a nationl sporting hero that tyoe that donr even Dena had amde of a UFC guy since Connor fo exmaple is not the national sports hero of Eire is he and non uf guuy in the us us a big a say Tom Brady for exmple the only other mma guy who has such a name is Fedor in russia he is litraly the 2nd biggest name sportsman of the post Soveit age only Karalin beats Fedor whne ot come ot name regocnation in russia yex not even Kabib or any russian boxier and that is how big for aorund 5-7 years Sakuraba was he was with in japan the outside the prime minster and one big name Pop Star the biggest name full stop in the nation not seicne akebono taro was at his biggest was nay one that hige form nay sport in japan Sakuraba fights in pride were getiing 25-35 mlionnn tv virewes lol eev that it Hight in the aae U WWE and WCW combaed were not getting that raw righest raing was round 6 mlioon Sakuraba 90 mumtie fgiht eith Royce Gracie 35.28 mlionn people wataced its th biggest sing rating for a sporting evnet ever minde you ut was facing on the other Cannhel a Drama witch would get 25-30 mlionn viewer each week ther Saku fight got an over 28.59% tv rating or just undr one in three people in japan watched it WWE nd wcw raing were in good in the ae but based on how ttv ratying are calcyukated in us ys Japan wer e in japan its based on total Popultaion like senibake system less than one in every 30 were watching wrestling in the hight of the AE vesy all od Sakuraba fight in pride iwth in japan were gtiing betwen 20-25% ofo the total ievwere watching it just saying
Voting is very reminiscent of how FIFA conducts it's voting in soccer for the ballon d'or people across the world would just vote Messi or Ronaldo even though their were clearly other players who had a better year for the past 2 decades some years
Nobody has actually had a year more deserving than Messi or Ronaldo, the times they've won it. People saying Ribery or Sneijder were clutching at straws. Modric was lucky to pick up his too.
I can't think of even one Nash match worth anything. I could rewatch ibushis g1s and Kennys singles push again. Nash is a promo and 7ft nothing more....like Cass.
@@brysoncherry9884 Guy wrestled Bret Hart and HBK multiple times and you cannot think of a match, but you can watch the gymnast with the stupid facial expressions? Right...
These comments show exactly why people shouldn’t give even 5 seconds of thought to Dave’s hall of fame. Wrestlers who drew money and helped spark the biggest boom in modern memory don’t measure up or deserve to go in because they don’t have amazing matches while people who haven’t drawn major money on major shows do because they have good acrobatic matches. The goal of wrestling was always to make the most money. It was never about having the best match. If a wrestler who was popular and drew big business happened to have a good match that was a nice bonus but it was never the goal. Rarely if ever have the biggest revenue draws in wrestling throughout history been the people who were the best workers. Hogan, Cena, Austin, Rock, etc. we’re never seen as the best workers in the world but they made the most money for their companies and as such are remembered by the most fans as legends of the business. A hall of fame that doesn’t factor the money drawn isn’t one worth caring about. Not to mention whatever voting metric he is using to get people in makes next to no sense. I’d rather just have a Vince choose random people Willy nilly because at least they selection system makes sense even if it’s shitty.
@@Matt-cr4vv Nash sucked don’t get Nash confused with NWO; however, he should be in the HOF due to so many less deserving wrestlers getting in. On his own what did Nash really do? You can’t book the NWO forever and Nash had no legs to stand own without it.
I knew about Dave in the 90s and I use to read his articles cause he was one of the few that would talk about japan and other places, but even back then I would read something he said or see his news letter and say "GTFOH, this dude is smokin something", cause he would ignore WCW and WWF, and some of the indie stuff that was good.
@@qwertyiuwg4uwtwthn Always had been. It depended on who was running the shows. In the 90s you had the big two companies in WCW and the WWF (3 when ECW picked up) and everyone else.
qwerty: There was one in particular in Ohio back in the day called Heartland Championship Wrestling with a trio worth keeping an eye on. Same Faction: Sami Calihan (and Solomon Crow and then Sami Calihan). Jon Moxley (and Dean Ambrose and then Mox). Sean Ricker (and Eli Drake and then L.A. Knight). And all three won Championship Gold years later in various vestiges of the big time!😉🎤🤼♂️B.W.
To defend Jim Johnston He created every wrestlers theme song and hype music for events and helped make an impact with the rock n wrestling connection and glamorous entryway. He played a part of every wrestler.
I'm not saying Jim Johnston should be above the others Jim talked about, with that said, he did put together a ton of iconic ring music. You may not consciously think about it, but theme music has always been incredibly important.
Dollars to donuts, Meltzer created that tag category just to get the Young Fucks in. He had to realise they had no chance of getting in as singles even with the Observer's current readership
@@duckmercy11 Tag teams have always been in the Hall of fame. The Road Warriors and the Fabulous Kangaroos went in the first year. Many tag teams - Midnight Express, Rock 'n Roll Express, Freebirds etc have been inducted in past years.
I disagree with Jim about Kota. I totally get his view about his joke matches at DDT. Sometimes Its like Jim sees those matches and thinks that's all he does. Kota has had some serious bangers, with nakamura, styles, okada, and Naito. Although I would say that his lack of personality keeps him out of the HOF, but I can see why people would vote him. I think Naito deserves to be in the HOF to be fair. Has had amazing matches, has his own faction and has good personality.
This is a problem that is occurring more and more (Not just in wrestling but all sports) where individuals are not prepared to look beyond a certain year/era. I'm not sure if it's ignorance or just laziness in learning the history of a sport that you work in.
I mean isn't Jim doing that? Dismissed taue and Kawada as if they have done nothing but they were two of the four pillars of ajpw at its most successful period and had one of the greatest tag matches of all time, but Jim wouldn't know as he doesn't know much outside a tiny period in a tiny region
@Raymond Rich japan was bigger during period with gates wwe and wcw could hope for. also both new japan and all japan have been around for 50 years hardly small period but what you know you listen and agree with cornie and he doesn't
@@jayfunk2012 I guess I have to explain the joke, sigh. I don't agree with Jim and have no issue with Taue & Kawada being in, but to say "he doesn't know much outside a tiny period in a tiny region" is patently absurd.
Tell me again how Dave Meltzer became THE authority and last word in wrestling? Tell me again why I or anyone should care about anything he puts out? JC said it best last time... he's been around the business a long time but never in it. Why should/do we care?
Thank you Jim for being just about the only person with a platform I've heard acknowledge the damage Big Daddy did to British wrestling, he was a draw, yes. But caused so much damage to the reputation and overall drawing power of British Wrestling.
Taue & Kawada are one legendary team tho. Maybe other should've entered the HOF first, but they are definitely worthy. They were 7X AJPW tag team champs during a boom period. Also during that time the AJPW tag titles had basically main event status.
Kawada and taue were much better than jim's picks Biggest criticism is they didn't team much because of the booking of all japan And they were on a regional ballot
I still remember the Young Bucks being called Generation ME. They were a jobber team in TNA and I thought then that "they will never be anything worth talking about". Fast forward to now and you just made mention that they could be in the Wrestling Observer Hall of Fame. Did I just wake up in a Nightmare on Elm Street movie with my love for wrestling getting ready to kill me with Freddy cutting my head off or something?
There was a very weird twist in the $100,000 Battle Royal on TNA Impact on 10/07/10. This was three nights of course before the infamous finish of the "10/10/10 Bound For Glory" PPV. At certain points in the Battle Royal on October 7th, Generation Me's Max and Jeremy Buck ended up tangling with ECW heroes like Tommy Dreamer and Sabu. So two thirds of the future EVPs went at it with guys from EV2...😂😏😖🎤🤼♂️B.W.
I slightly disagree with Jim here, in that I think Dave Meltzer has cultivated a certain audience over time and that is reflected by his readership and its voting.
Multiple things can be true: plenty of people who should be in the WON HOF aren't and yet it's entirely possible to argue for Taue/Kawada (tag) as qualified. Can you tell the story of their respective wrestling eras without them? Taue & Kawada were the preeminent All Japan team of the 90s in the most grueling Tag League tournaments on network television. They faced the very best Japanese/American wrestlers and their matches absolutely hold up today in a very favorable light.
Místico & Los Villanos definitely belong in the wrestling hall of fame. Místico revitalized lucha libre in México during the 00s and sold out arenas every single Friday for years straight before he went to the WWE. Los Villanos were a cornerstone of the oldest lucha libre/ wrestling promotion on earth. Funny that Jim “hadn’t heard of them” when they toured Japan with the American guys in the 70s & 80s.
jim is close minded and racist wehn iot come tp wrestling that show when Iushi held build that was the 2nd bigggest promotin in japan Cyber fgit is simply put pre pendemic and attacnde ruels taht are sill in place Cyber fight got 1.8 Mlionn tickest sold that that was on sterdy gorwn patten form 2012 with 300k titekc sold i poodubt someone liek Segal a simptant as he was eve r got clsoe ot 2 mlionn tikect sold in a year yiu sir are the only really smart fan among corntte cult
The argument seems mainly to be on timing and the exclusion of other talents who are barely even recognizable anymore due to just never being inducted in the last thirty years. Jim is definitely ignorant on guys from Mexico and Japan but I do understand his argument. There are plenty of people that have deserved being in a Hall of Fame for a long time that just likely never will be.
I looled up WON HOF on wikipedia and according to their lists Sgt Slaughter is listed under worst matches, angles, washed up wrestlers and unimproved. OMG thats insulting.
I just think a lot of the people Jim mentioned like the original Bobby or Roca and Perez are from a bygone era and are forgotten to history due to lack of footage. And the age demographic of smart marks have gotten younger so there definition of "Classic" is 1980s and 90s musical composer Jim Johnston....it's only going to get worse with the Bucks and shit because observer fans are skewing younger and have no idea who Wild Bill Curry is.
Listening to the breakdown of how Dave puts people in sounds mental gymnastics for "screw the voters, here's who I want to put into my imaginary hall of fame."
Twinkletoes had a five year run in Japan, and his only major exposure in the States is in a company where he is an EVP, but he and Ibushi are more deserving of being in the Hall of Fame than Kevin Nash or Sgt.Slaughter, or the Steiners. Anyone who takes anything Unka Dave does seriously anymore is smoking something that they shouldn't be.
Renee and Steiners I agree. But Kenny has had a match consistency (singles) that people work their whole career towards. Even someone like Danielson keeps trying to have perfect matches, I think Kenny does too. He's good for others to push themselves.
I remember a interview from Dave Meltzer where Ole Andersen totally humiliated him..i like what Jim Cornette does but the Wrestling World needs Ole Andersen today more than ever...🌎🔥
@@kevindouglas5333 Even putting aside how long he drew or didn't draw...you're saying what amounts to "he didn't draw except when he drew in his prime " so who cares?
He drew the most disappointing Wrestlemania house of all-time, his title reign was a massive disappointment, and calling him a “great” worker is a massive overstatement. Someone like Naito was a way bigger draw than Sarge.
Brian Last And Jim creating a hall of fame is the perfect content we need. I think the consensus they would have on obvious candidates is good. But I also think Brian has just enough of an appreciation of the modern candidates that there would be no glaring omissions
Comparison is stupid. One is a legit kickboxer who's mostly known for doing some of the most athletic matches ever, the other is mostly known for putting his hands in his pockets.
Big Daddy destroyed faith in wrestling in the UK until the attitude era and even then many still turned their nose up at wrestling in The UK. Not that he meant it but he done alot of damage to the credibility unfortunately.
@Bill Bird No because I'm talking about credibility being lost for adults, that was more of a kids product, although as a massive wrestling fan all my life I loved it too !
@@metallicbigtoe3949 You'd have to go back before the Crabtree's for credibility. Maybe the Billy Robinson/Wigan snakepit era - where most of the guys were legit.
@Bill Bird Fair point, Shirley was the death nail through, it's funny because my Grandfather believed in him with all his heart lol, he loved the guy 😂
@@metallicbigtoe3949 I think Max might have been the bigger problem. Imagine if British wrestling had rebooted in the 80's with Dynamite, Davey Boy, Chris Adams, Rocco, Finlay, Regal, Brookside and the likes on top.
Every style can have it's place on a good wrestling card. Where it gets tiring today is the lack of diversity which is ironic because WWE and aew are all about inclusiveness. I'll take an old school card with squash matches and an absurd character or two over the bland predictability of modern wrestling. I respect the athleticism, it's the best it's ever been, but there are no modern singular industry changing wrestlers. It's gotten so micromanaged and predictable that no one stands out.
Meltzer is basically a fan that went to journalism school! But is still just a fan!Jim was actually in the bussiness! Jim Cornette grew up in the bussiness mentored by legends put together work as a photographer, worked in the biggest Pro Wrestling companies in a variety of positions with the greatest minds in history. Jim Cornette is respected by his peers and is a noted historian, and advocate for professional wrestling that has helped development of many talents and this without even mentioning he managed one of the (if not THE) all time great tag teams. He has managed singles world champions, created and ran his own ProWrestling company and today hoasts the greatest ProWrestling podcast in the history of the world! (with the Great Brian Last) A Hall of Fame that Jim Cornette supports and is associated with, would be more legitimate. I can imagine Melzer will have a coronary meltdown as a result. Count me in Jim, I can't wait! 👍🏼👍🏼!
I had created a "Facebook" Old School Professional Wrestling Hall of Fame some years back. I posted fancy plaques and name plates using google images. I created this solely based on Joanie "Chyna" Lauer in mind thinking Stephanie will never allow her in the WWE HOF.. Though I did a monthly installment and adding up to 30 wrestlers/tag teams. Yeah thats quite a bit. I did include celebrities but those that were worthy, being that Im an old school fan since 1986 I thought Id be good at booking this. However despite asking for committee involvement of fellow wrestling facebook friends (close friends and wrestling followers) I end up being the only one that selected. Some maybe close to a year into I ended up not adding more inductees.
