Jinnah: His Successes, Failures and Role in History | Dr. Ishtiaq Ahmed 

Irony is these programs are mostly watched by Indians not by Pakistanis… Pakistanis doesn’t pay respect to these gems that they deserve… more power to such sane voices in pakistan..keep up good work professors 👍👍👍

This is one of the most awesome bipartisan discussions on historical events. Such a gem of a Pakistani historian. Professor Ishtiaq is like an encyclopedia of information and quoting with sources is so impressive. I am going to read all his books and suggest to people.

Dr.Ishtak Ahmad Sb. told 100% truthful story of partition of India .

I found the discussion very interesting. In particular, from 41:00 - 49:50 where they talk about Jinnah's relationship with landowning feudal lords who were essentially his clients and he was their lawyer. Let's remember Jinnah was a staunch capitalist and he died extremely wealthy with investments not just in Pakistan but in India as well. Jinnah actually left Muslim League in 1930 but the League offered him a lucrative position of 'Founder of The Nation' which had the potential to make him a historically important figure and a very wealthy man. Jinnah's interest was power. He was not religious. He did not have any real family ties either. His clients' who were the feudal landowners wanted to retain power with land ownership. Even today in Pakistan the concept of 'might is right' prevails where groups with more power and wealth rule over others. Thus Pakistan in my humble opinion was not created for any ideological reason. The ideological narrative was more a façade than a reality. It was actually created to protect wealthy and powerful landowners and their politically connected families.

I live in kolkata. Time is 3.13am. For last few hours i was mesmerized by your story telling. I would have been very happy if it went a bit longer. On both sides of border we are trying to change the our history and facts so that ruling government can justify their acts and ideology. Our young generation are being taught that manipulated history. You are one of the few story tellers who can teach us right history based on facts. Just continue to do this kind of podcasts which enlightens the people.

I agree with Dr. Ahmed, quality of university level teacher @1:40 is shocking. Teachers and professors are the builders of modern nations, which are based on the quality of knowledge of the population.

It is such a pleasure to listen to Dr Ishtiaq, thank you for sharing your wisdom to us. I hope that we will learn from it.

So Dr. Ishtiaq Sir comes to his motherland Pakistan . Very nice discussion with factful historical and philosophical aspects . Thanks to him and Dr. Hoodbhoy and whole black hole team .

After this session I think we all Pakistani should thankful to Ganndi Saab for his actions... Respect from Gilgit baltistan Pakistan

Excellent. I am a bengali from India originally my forefather from east bengal. I respect opinion of Dr Ahmed as it is researched based book and his opinion. Let us proceed for peace, enoughh of violence we have seen in the past. Stop that hatred. Thanks to blackhole for organising this discussion.

Muslim population in India in 1947 = 3 crore. Muslim population in Uttar Pradesh in 2023 = 5 crore.

Lets not get carried away - these discussions are happening in a black hole in Pakistan. Nothing is getting out

As a Indian muslim❤ I support Bhkts Akhand Bharat(50 cr. Muslim)🙏

What a scholarly discussion on Jinnah, full of research and data by Dr. Ishtiaq Ahmed and active participation from Dr. Hoodbhoy and a very connected audience. I don't think I have seen/heard such an open discussion on opposing points or views, without it regressing into a shouting match and name calling. Bravo to The Black Hole forum and it's organizers.

Dr I Ahmed is a intellectual gem.. His deep knowledge and research is evident. I wish there was a person of his calibre who could dispel the fake narrative around Nehru and his actions during the partition period and later as PM of India, just as he has helped to dislodge the fake narrative about true intentions of Jinah..

After hearing this , I can only say that it is "Twice Told Tale" explained by a Genius scholar .Everyone must hear it because if a problem is highlighted by Sir Ishtiaq ahmed than there must be solution for it . he has identified the causes, reasons with evidence we must try to reach any good conclusion .Pakistan Zindabad !

I place my country above my religion , and my constitution above any religion book.

India officially became secular in 1972. Hindu didn't oppose the change done to finish the bad practice of caste , dowry & sati , hindu marriage act etc. There is big difference in hindu & Islamic society. We have no one book to follow rigidly so when needed it can be reformed. That's why nehru polices were successful and similar things had happened in past. Hindu are by default secular & democratic by thier own practice of many gods. So glad that good leaders helped india to reform. Not sure Pakistani with Islamic ideology can do that. It's the blocking of mind which is hindering thier own success

Respect to Prof Ishtiaq Ahmed...a true social science scholar..He has the guts to see things as they were, even ignoring the demand to propagate Pakistani nonsensical political ideas...an amazing man, a true Muslim and i must say someone both Hindus and Muslims will respect him for his understanding of the region.

Feeling Sorry for Pashtoon, Sindhi and Baloch Hindus who became victim of Liaquats greed 😢😢

Thank you again thank again!!! Beautiful discussion so peoples know the facts about history what I learned in school. I hope and pray yours message will be blessings to all peoples. God bless more and more your efforts.

Ishtiaq sahb is such a gem who enlightened us by giving us the sight to look at this topic rationally otherwise we would have been lost in the concocted narrative, we are taught in our educational institutions. Now, where Pakistan stands proves that this all episode was mere bullshit without having vision. I mean, how can you part a nation on the basis of a religion? What is happening now in Pak. is all the result of that mischievous act. These people (our so called leadership) were not worthy of given a small piece of land whom they granted this sacred piece of land to corrupt. Even a single of them was nowhere to be a leader to lead a country.

Facts Display as Vividly & Accurately as Possible by Dr. Ahmed 🎉

Can't believe that these kind of free intellectual discussions can take place in Pakistan respecting opinions of all . Felt very happy that still there is some sense and light there in Pakistan.

Sir , after anilizing Jinha one gets the idea that he was a brilliant person who spent his life to achieve his personal Target of becoming a KING without worrying about its cost to his country , community . He utilizes his religion to achieve his desire or els he wasn't a religious person nor he followed his religion till he could use it to his own benefit.His service to his religion was that he divided them into 3 parts ! Imran khan life and his political activities are very similar to Jinha .Both led a different life away from their religion till they saw opportunity in their religion to achieve their personal Goals

I am hindu, and Indian citizen. Kindly answer my question if Mr.Gandhi protected muslims in India. Who is to be blamed for massacre of Hindus in Pakistan???

Good discussion, but very disappointed in the massive censoring of the question and answer session.

The last comment by Dr. Ishtiaq is the essence of this discussion. Special thanks to Black Hole for arranging such a civilized dialogue.

1:40:00 dude massive respect to Dr Pervez for asking the "guest" very politely to let him complete the question. Anyone else would have taken their guest's side. It was sensitive topic so it happens.

The Quaid had “turkey” ham, which is not pork ham, but turkey slices smoked. And, wine is perfectly halal and permitted, being made from grapes not distilled!!

یہ ایک بہترین دسکشن تھی جو اس سے پہلے کبھی سننے میں نہیں اآئی ۔ اگر پاکستان کو صیح راسے پر چڑھانا ہے تو سچ ک اپنانا ہو گا ۔ ابھی تک جھوٹ اورجھوٹے نظریے پر چلنے کیوجہ سے پاکستان کی سمت غلط سمت میں طے کی گئی ۔۔ایسے لوگ ہی پاکستان کو قومی ریاست بنانے میں اصل کردار ادا کر سکتے ہیں۔۔

Dr. Ishtiaq God bless your knowledge and memory.

Finest discussion ever ❤ 👍

Excellent debate and well explained admire the the positive thinking and analysis of all concerned admire your education and experience T/Y

just finished watching a series of videos that were hosted by Pervez Hoodbhoy featuring Dr Ishtiaq Ahmed a Punjabi, Pakistani political scientist who migrated to Sweden and became a professor at Stockholm university. In these videos Dr Ishtiaq criticizes Mr. Jinnah roundly for his handling of the partition, his ego, and his lack of empathy for the killings that took place after partition. He says that unlike the leaders of Congress Mr. Jinnah did not spend one night in jail and did not write any book. He was a good lawyer hired by the nawabs of India to argue their case for partition with the British. He also states that Mr Jinnah when asked what would become of the Muslims left behind in India , said at Kanpur that he was willing to sacrifice 20 million Muslims left behind there if they hindered the creation of Pakistan and partition of India. On the other hand he pays great tributes to Mr Gandhi and Nehru and other Congress leaders for their foresight, sympathy towards Muslims and for their broadminded secular outlook. He says that Jinnah was not a liberal and the August 11 speech that is quoted to support his liberal stance post partition was just one of many speeches and one swallow does not make a spring. All Jinnah's speeches before and after this were based on the division and differences between Hindus and Muslims and the argument that they could not live together after the British left. He says that Jinnah sahib knew that in order to get Pakistan there had to be communal riots which would convince the British of his point of view and did nothing to stop them. He says nothing about Allama Iqbal the poet who first gave the idea of Pakistan and does not acknowledge any contribution from Raja sahib of Mahmudabad who bank rolled the country-Pakitan for the first few years. In summary he paints a very dark picture of Jinnah and his Pakistan. Due to his supprt for the Congress point of view and praise for Mr. Nehru and Gandhi, hi books have received very wide readership in India and he is invited frequently for talks there where he further elaborates his point of view on Mr. Jinnah and his failures. Coming from a Punjabi this is quite strange. If here is any one group that benefited most from the creation of Pakistan it is the Punjabis in Pakistan. Dr Ishtiaq cites references for each of his statements and one will have to believe him although reluctantly. one technique thathe does use as dio all people who want to propage a particular point of view is to make selective choices of incidents and their references. He gives the impression from his writings an illustartes it further in his talks by examples which show that HIndus , sikhs and muslims were living peacefully in pakitan , india before and after partition and contue to have love for each other after it. While this may be tru, he fails to point out that the killings of Sikhs in Rawalpindi by the punjabi mulims was the one most important factor that caused the massive communal riots, in Punjab and he murder of over one million people in Punjab which then spread to other parts of India. He fails to point out that the so called Kashmir problem between Indai and Pakistan is essentially a Punjabi punjabi problem. a urdu speaking or sindhi speaking person in Pakistan has little or no interest in it. The little interest that is generated in these parts is by invoking the religious nature of the problem. IF a book like this was written by an Urdu speaking person, I would find it easier to understand since the partition that took place essentially sacrificed the Muslims living in the Muslim minority provinces on the altar of Pakistani nation hood. The ones who came over to Pakistan did not do much better since they were discriminated in government jobs, by quotas for Karachi where the majority had settled and were restricted in joining the Armyand other forces. The well to do of them migrated to other parts of the world and the ones that could not were condemned to live in ghettos in Karachi and Hyderabad and were constantly faced violence from the Patahns and others living in these cities. So complaints against Jinnah's Pakistan would sound more reasonable from them. But criticism of Jinnah coming from a Punjabi who was given a country on a silver platter by Jinnah are beyond comprehension. My main point is that, I wonder why this book and videos are coming out at this time. I have no problem with Hindus and Muslims living peace fully together in India and Pakistan. I think Pakistan and India should resolve their differences peacefully and infact have argue inmy blogs that the Kashmir dispute is just a red herring and Pakistan should not pursue it. etc. etc. And if the references that Dr Ishtiaq cites are correct then his position on Jinah and Pakistan are perhaps tenable. However, what makes me a bit uneasy is the timing of all this coming out and the suspicion that there may be more than what meets the eye in all this. You see, when one has to destroy a nation one needs to weaken its institutions like the Judiciary, the Army , the police the bureaucracy and others. we have already done a very good job of all this ourselves. over the last 20 years or so. The only thing that some old fools like my self still hold onto is the notion that perhaps Mr. Jinnah tried his best and did not get enough time after partition or things would have been better in Pakistan today. These are the lingering strands of nationhood that still exist in some minds like mine. To completely destroy a nation, it is necessary to snatch these remaining life lines of nation hood and extinguish ALL hopes so that even people like myself would be forced to say: that Pakistan was a bad experiment that did not work out so let us close the book and move on. This , I think is the ultimate objective of these videos and books. If this is so then we need to see who would benefit from such a situation, Perhaps it is a ploy from the West in conjunction with its partners in the region. Just like it is said that the creation of Pakistan was in fact a part of the greater western strategy to have a client state in south Asia which could be used against the Soviet Union after the WW II . Now that the Soviet Union has been destroyed and Russia effectively contained there is no need for such a client state. To combat the new western Enemy China, teh west already has the enthusiastic support of India - so there is no need for Pakistan. It is expendable. The aspirations of the local people or their concerns do not figure in these grand strategies. so too bad if some Pakistanis do not like this outcome. To pursue this theory further, i would want to investigate the financial flows that have supported DR. Ishtiaq's works. People like Pervez Hoodbhoy have enthusiastically agreed with what he says. I cannot disagree with much of what he says (if he has not cheated on his references) , but have questions about his selective methods of analysis and concerns on why he is saying all this at this time. So I would caution the audience and intellectuals like Pervez Hoodbhoy to be a bit more critical in their thinking before swallowing all this hook line and sinker. I would be grateful for comments on this note from friends and not so friendly people.

Excellent Historical information 👏👍👌

Great to see that such viewpoints can be put forward sitting in Pakistan. I wanted to know what was Jinnah’s stand on Ghulam Ahmed Parvez and his articles about Pakistan in Tulu-e-Islam magazine

Ye kaisa julm hai Muslims of india per ki unke population badti ja rahi hai.

Every Indian Muslims shud listen to this true narrative s from the Pakistani perspective,eye opening discussion

Thank you so much Balck hole and istiaq sir for their efforts for light on reality ,is partition is good or bad and about jinaa ,what he had done we indian muslim and also peaceful pakistani Muslim are seeing ,by this I understand that extremism is very for any religion it can fit in any religion either it is muslim leauge,rss , khalistani or Dravidian,by this I understand that jinha had no plan for muslim of pakistan and especially for muslim who stay in india.that the final point. Today I understand why some people don't call Gandhi a Mahatma Gandhi because they hate of his progesive view

I'm glad that fundamentalists, jihadis, are now separated in Pakistan. I'm happy Jinnah did what he did. I can't imagine Islamic fundamentalists dictating current Indian polity.

This is wonderful initiation of intellectual discussion platform , this sure create the difference

So most comments in this intellectual discussion as well is going to be by Indians only. Glad to see some thinking intellectuals in this Black Hole. I am indebted to Parvez Hoodbhoy.

@ 1:39:54 I had to laugh so hard and replayed it many times! Lol. Professor Dr. Ishtiaq Ahmed lost his cool on a silly question but nice that he later apologized. A question, however silly and stupid, must be entertainer in a nice decent way. Kudos to Dr. Saab for apologizing and answering him!

This video has been edited several times. in fact it has been censored for certain unwelcome questions and unwelcome answers. can this be an example of freedom of expression. I had never expected such censor from black hole. if you dont mind can i get a reasonable explanation for such act ?

This is the greatest discussion ever

With all due respect to Ishtiaq Saheb this whole program looked like a hit piece on Jinnah rather than a scholar discussion. The conjectures sprinkled all over and the contextual description seemed so out of place. Granted that Jinnah Saheb may not be perfect but doing this hindsight analysis after the nation itself screwed up is a big injustice to the great man.

I love the disscussion and the way Dr ishtiaq explained

What I have earlier heard in discussions of Ishtiaq Saab, Jinnah was obsessed with his own self and wanted his name written in history for creating a country.

istiaq ahmed is very brave persson he knew what he is telling could have disastrous conse quences

I don't know why are professor commenting on hindu text and Hinduism without read it Very disappointing 😭🥲

This s the discussion which makes us well aware both sides. People should raise questions against discussion for more exploring of knowledge. But I think this discussion should be discussed on the basis of cause and effects. From both side India and Pakistan want to know right history and storey. Love from my side

Prof Hoodbhoy contradicted Ishtiaq sahab when he quoted one swallow doesn't make a summer.....i guess the contradiction was uncalled for. Ishtiaq sahab was right though I'm not sure whether this line comes from Shakespeare.

I was lucky to be there at the Black Hole

Excellent approach

We respect ur opinon. Live longer.

Beautiful question at 1:11:05

I have read this book of Dr. Ishtiaq. It is a good academic work. He has cross examined Quid in whole book everywhere. Those who will read book carefully will automatically find most of the arguments against Quid wrong. Don’t be misguided by this discussion. It is boring. Wasting time on useless points. We all should remember Quid worked for two nation theory and got Pakistan from subcontinent. While Gandhi, Nehru and Congress worked for United India and against two nation theory. Who won. Quid won. So who was the biggest leader of subcontinent? Winner or looser. Whole 1940’s were very important years. Quid played his cards beautifully. Quid’s 11th August speech was having nothing about secularism. He assured minorities wit spirit of a great Muslim leaders. His speech on eid miladun Babi with CP Barar people was most clear speech telling that system in Pakistan will run according to laws of sharia. In 1948 he established a directorate for making constitution of Pakistan under guidance of sharia. He made Allan’s Assad his head. He was a Gujrati Muslim who was frugal in his financial matters genetically. All his wealth was hard earned. Those who raise fingers towards it should be ashamed. After Second World War things went in favor of Pakistan. Quid used it ver well. Quid got poorest part of subcontinent as Pakistan while India got milking cows. We should understand the problem of these writers. Their publishers are often Indian. They want to sell their books in India also. Therefore they write books in this way. To make happy their financiers. But the book is good. Writer should avoid this type of stupid discussions. Specially with Hood bhai. It’s a serious advise.

Muhammad Ali Jinnah studied in the Madrasahs of Ulama Ikram of India and became a business man in the court of the British in India. He did not speak. Who was the Hindu home minister of West Bengal, Muhammad Ali Jinnah? What you don't agree with is that he was a lawyer for Balochistan. This is approved by your revolutionary Islamic theory laboratory

What is the relation of Korean War To Jinnah? In fact, the policies were developed by Liaqat Ali Khan after the death of Jinnah.

Sir your knowledge is great

Plz publish in hindi I will purchase this book I like history

I listened and watched complete debate But Dr. Ishtiaq Ahmad sb is not able to respect people reviews But I request professor Dr pervaiz joodboy please let them these kind of long discussions

The person asking question at 1:40:00 about the muslims in India is perhaps watching too much of Pakistani media, Muslims in India at anyday are more prosperous than ordinary muslims in Pakistan, The only issue is that muslims in India are still controlled by Maulanas who play religious card, Majority of Hindus just want them to reform themselves and talk in national interest & free speech, not going on the road & beheading common people in name of Allah.

At one stage Our Quaid was trapped by Gandhi ji to accept one Inda & our Quaid just demanded that if you give us 33 % representation in Assemblies we will accept the idea of one India but fortunately Congress leaders rejected this proposal & Allah saved the Muslims of India from the slavery of Hindus.

Very erudite and scholarly discussion 🎉🎉🙏🙏

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻very nice discussion

Waheguru is the Sovereign of both Hindustan and Pakistan. We want United States of Punjab. 🙏

Partition was a well considered choice of Indian leaders. Mahatma Gandhi had publicly declared: "Before partitioning India, my body will have to be cut into two pieces". Therefore aware of Indian leaders compulsions of accepting united India at all costs, Clever British formulated Cabinet Mission Plan in 1946 which was to become Indian Independence Act, 1946, offering India independence by June 1948 in the form of UNITED THREE TIER INDIA : (1) Defense, Ext. Affairs & Communications only as federal subjects (2) Grouping of provinces on religious lines as the intermediate tier - grouping of Muslim provinces in the west & east and grouping of Hindu province in the north & central India with groups having veto-power over the Center. (3) fully autonomous & sovereign provinces and princely states as the lowest tier with option to join veto-wielding provincial groups . Princely States were also given option to maintain their existing relationship with British Empire which allowed British military to keep foot-hold in India & the 562 Princely states constituted 40% of territory of British India The Cabinet Mission Plan called for representative of British Crown to remain Governor General of India with Indian Army to remain under his command till Muslim & Hindu leaders framed common acceptable Constitution after which power would be finally transferred on to the united 3-tier India. The choice was either this plan or partition of India & Jinnah had agreed to Cabinet Mission Plan. The Indian leaders were aware about the letter by Lord Birkenhead, the Secretary of State for India in the House of Lords which said : "I am entirely in favour of inducing the malcontents to produce their own proposals, for in the first place I believe them to be quite incapable of surmounting the constitutional and constructive difficulties involved; in the second, if these were overcome, I believe that a unity which can only survive in an atmosphere of generalisation would disappear at once". The Indian leaders were also aware of Winston Churchill's address to the House of Commons in Feb.,1931: "The loss of India would be final and fatal to us. I could not fail to be part of a process that would reduce us to the scale of a minor power". In the event of failure to formulate Constitution, there was palpable danger of disastrous civil war & lurking fear that a war-weakened Britain would get revitalized to manipulate continuity of its occupation over India. In the light of all this, Indian leaders took the correct decision. It is a tribute to great Indian leaders who realized that sacrificing territory for Jinnah's Pakistan was worth the price to pay for achieving modern, progressive, democratic India.

why there are so much cuts ?? what are you trying to hide?? something wrong

The whole world is reading Dr. Ishtiaq, is there any chance that Pakistani kids read the true history of Pakistan!

Jinnah’s success - Modern India Jinnah’s failure - 700 AD Pakistan

Dr Ishtiaq Saib, paid very through tribute on life of Jinnah at some extant.. Fortunately unfortunately, he didn’t answer one of the questions: that why Jinnah spent his last days in Balochistan(Ziarat) like un facilitated area? Where you could get no medicine and proper treatment of health!! That question remained answerless

Islam is Deen. Deen is political and military system. Understand this and it will be easy to understand why pak was created and where it is now.

Just like the Treaty of Hudaybiyyah between Muhammad , representing the state of Medina, and the tribe of the Quraysh in Mecca why can't Pakistan and India can sign a treaty for 10 years of peace and trade ?

Happy I mostly understand Hindi, I could grasp 2/3rd what they are saying, but sad I don’t understand so many Urdu words, the other 1/3rd is left for my imagination. Discussion was none the less engrossing.

Pakistani people knew what is happening in India but they don't know what is happening in Pakistan with Hindu temple and Cristian church in Pakistan. 😢😢😢

It is surprising that not a single Pakistani have placed their views, hope people of Pakistan now knows that how accommodating Hindus are that they allowed millions of Muslims to stay back in India.

Part-4 Interesting but disappointing! حِکمَت کَدے میں آج ہَدَف بالا قَد ہُوئے شایَد کہ پَستہ قَد کی ہو قامَت دراز یُوں ! The Speaker refers to militarization of Balochistan, to create an impression that Pakistan had forcibly occupied it, a popular propaganda these days! He also criticizes Jinnah for accepting Kalat an independent state on 11 August 1947. A great concealment of facts! Kalat had not signed the instrument of accession by that time and, so, what should Jinnah have done? Didn’t he respect the status of Kalat? What was wrong with it? Later on, Khan of Kalat issued a communiqué announcing Kalat’s accession to Pakistan from 9 p.m, 27 March 1948, and the Instrument of Accession was signed on 31 March 1948. No military action had been carried out by Jinnah by that time! It was in July 1948 that Khan’s brother Prince Abdul Karim (married in the royal family of Afghanistan) returned from Afghanistan and tried to resist the accession with the help of militants, a move that was suppressed by a small contingent of army. The law authorized the head of a princely state to take a decision regarding accession and not his brother! Kharan, Las Bela and Makran had long been requesting Jinnah to accept accession that finally took place on 18 March 1948. The impression created by the Speaker that Balochistan was occupied through militarization is based on his surmises! It is true that Jinnah was not an expert in Islamic studies but he had never claimed to be a religious scholar. The Speaker has a right to find faults with Jinnah’s knowledge about Islam. But, to support his criticism, the Speaker refers to the invasion of Jews of Khyber by the Muslims and labels it as ‘Islam’, completely forgetting the distinction between ‘Islam’ and the ‘history of Muslims’! A great fallacy! Probably, the greatest of the fallacious comments have been made by a gentleman from the audience but, surprisingly, the Speaker agrees to him! The statement is based on the premises that: Some persons wrote books, went to jails and became leaders; Those who write books and go to jails are leaders; and therefore A leader is the person who writes books and goes to jails. Since Jinnah did not write books and also did not go to jail, he was not a leader! Fantastic! Whether or not the question was planted is not known but the conclusion drawn both by the questioner and the Speaker are evidently fallacious! Moreover, a book is a form of communication of ideas. But is this the only mode of communication? What about Jinnah’s written communications and speeches comprising thousands of pages? Some politicians commit cognizable acts and land into jails to become leaders. Jinnah became a leader without using this ‘nuskha’! Sikander Aqeel Ansari

Sir how can I attend the Black hole session physically? Please share details I really want to hear my fvt SirHoodbhoy Live

Great sir

What a question and conclusion by a participant @ 1:12:26 ‘ can we conclude that Jinah was the English’s Imran Khan’ 🤣🤣🤣

My thirst unfortunately was not quenched. The discussion created more angularaties I would term Revisionist. First, 11August speech was only discussed with reference to minorities. Also, the knowledge of Author and moderator was insufficient. The speech was banned 8n Pakistan and Dawn did not issue it as a bulletin. Michelle Chaudary daughter of Late Cecil Chaudary got it from the undistributed archives. The speech was also published in Indian side of newspaper. The recoding still lies with All India Radio and Princeton University. It was about one diverse nation. Secondly, less than a third of the speech is about minorities. The major emphasis was on corruption, jobbery and white collar crime. I wish Dr Pervez was more challenging

What a personality of Dr. Ishtiaq has.

Epic line jinnah angreazo ka imran maza aa gaya

Pervez hoodboy tried to justify that Jinnah was liberal and secular but Ishtiyaq sir devastated his ideas. Hhhh. Beautiful slaps by Ishtiyaq ahmed.

Mr. Ishtiaq Ahmed is misleading our youth. Just because he wrote a book doesn’t mean he is right and everything he’s saying or wrote in the book is right. There are alot of things I can highlight in this conversation but it would be a waste of time, in short I would say that he’s a short tempered old man desperate for some attention.

Mr. Ishtiaq is a living legend. Love and hats off to him.

Millions of Indian Muslims refused to follow Mr. Jinnah and decided to stay in India. Muslims who migrated to Pakistan filed false claims of property and were allotted large properties owned by Hindus and Sikhs who fled to India. It was one of the greatest frauds in human history. Urdu speaking muhajirs captured bureaucracy and big business houses in Pakistan. For them, the new country was a land of milk and honey. They looted and plundered Pakistan and then left Pakistan to settle in Europe, Canada, and America. That is the story in a nutshell.

I am going to buy and read all of Dr. Ishtiaq Ahmed’s books. Amazing, simply amazing

Great appreciation for Dr. Ishtiaq Ahmed for his exposition and clarity of thought. I would like to know more of his study on the first Law and Labour Minister of Pakistan, Jogendranath Mandal and the condition of his constituency in Pakistan and Bangladesh. I would like his references for some claims he made: 1. The Hindu/Sikh refugee men would gesticulate naked to the Muslim women in India. 2. "Dono jagah aurato ki mandiya lagi". There are references for these markets selling women as sex-slaves in Lahore and Peshawar, both during Partition and the Kashmir War. But, I would like to see reference for the same on this side of the border. There is also some nuance I would like to bring here in the over-glorification of the Congress and the over-vilification of the Hindu Mahasabha or RSS. As it was repeatedly conceded that Jinnah might have brought about the partition of India but could not stop the massacres even if he wanted. Why is the same logic not extended to the rest of India? How does the speaker assume that any party like the Congress could prevent the wholesale slaughter of Muslims in India? The horrors of the partition were mostly confined to Bengal and Punjab and some incidents in Bihar which was still under the Bengal Presidency. It is not due to the Congress that the Hindu population did not choose violence. It was the restraint due to their religious obligations. In fact the bogey of Non-violence practiced by Congress was busted right after the assassination of Gandhi, where the Chitpavan Brahmin Community, Godse's community, was subjected to targeted mob violence and massacres in Bombay Presidency. Large swathes of these community still cannot return back to their ancestral home. This was again replicated in the Anti-Sikh program organized by the Congress to avenge the killing of Indira Gandhi. The capability of the Congress to inflict severe human tragedy is underestimated. Also, the capability of Gandhi to deliberately overlook or justify the killings of Hindus for political convenience. is exemplary. The Moplah massacre, the Noakhali Massacre, Assassination of Rajpal, etc. are some of the few recorded instances where Gandhi's indifference to the suffering of the Hindus is abhorrent to say the least. This can be understood if you put yourselves in the shoes of a hindu. But, there is dank apathy for the pagan/kafir Hindu in the scholarship of the Colonialist, the Muslim, the Communist or the Christian. Also, is it not surprising to the author that Gandhi, the Prophet of Non-violence, was the foremost conscription general of Indians for the British Colonial Army in at least the Anglo-Boer Wars, the First World War and the Second World War? Wars where the Indian adolescent boys did not know the enemy and never returned home. While he would stop any Indian independence movement for any small instance of violence.

First Hindu to give his life for Pakistan was Mahatma Gandhi 🙏

Entire India is thankful to Jinnah for creating Pakistan and sparing India... May jinnah get peace, jannat and 72000000000 hoooreeen

I really like this channel lots. 👍👍👍 Very knowledgeable and informative.

Lots of Respect From India 🇮🇳 To Professor Ishtiyaq Ahmed and Prof. Hoodbhoy 🇵🇰 For Organising and Initiating This RU-vid Channel 🙂

I was born in Pakistan, and while I respect the views of leaders like Quaid-e-Azam, I believe in the importance of making my own decisions about what it means to be Pakistani. I am independent-minded and will not allow others to impose their beliefs on me.

Black Hole is perhaps the most inappropriate name for a platform from where ideas and perspectives should spread like ripples to the outermost periphery. Another stand out performance from Dr Ishtiaq saab Applaud his remarkable ability to not let his world view infulence the outcome of his research. Prof Hoodbhoy dexterously steered the discussion on a land mine-laden subject. Fervently wish to see the platform go from strength to strength.

Jinnah was a Britishers Imran Khan...what a line.!! As an Indian I feel proud that Mahatma Gandhi ,Nehru,Abul Kalam Azzad,Sardar Vallabhabhai Patel are the genuine visionary leaders/legends of India...prof.Ishtiaq Ahmad sir is a genuine thinker,writer...I always want to listen to him... Fact based speech..

The tragedy of Gandhi’s life was that [the] members of his inner council who followed him for more than twenty years with unquestioned obedience, took the fatal steps leading to the partition of India without his knowledge, not to speak of his consent…[Jinnah’s fight] was…a fight not for the freedom of India…but for the freedom of the Muslims from the tyrannical yoke of the Hindus, as he put it. He won the fight; the cult of violence decided the issue. To what extent Gandhi’s cult of non-violence may claim credit for the freedom of India is a matter of opinion. But there is no doubt that the creation of Pakistan was the triumph of violence-in its naked and most brutal form-and of the leadership of Jinnah. Nobody can be reasonably sure that India would have surely attained Independence…even without Gandhi, but it is extremely doubtful whether there would have been a Pakistan without Jinnah. ~ Great Indian historian Shri R.C. Majumdar

Lol while I admire Ishtiaq sahab and Hoodbhoy sahab but they are dishonest when it comes to discussing Hinduism and Indian history writing. Perhaps living in an Islamic state its their compulsion to appear balanced. Ishtiaq sahab know nothing of Manusmriti but he is just picking up few troll lines from here and there which is quite unbeoming of a scholar of his stature. Secondly Hinduism is a secular belief system which doesn't require you to believe one book , god and there is no prophet. Nehru and Ambedkar both thwarted the inclusion of word 'Secular' in Indian constitution. It was inserted during emergency.