JLU's answer to modern cynicism 

Such clever foreshadowing from a silly conversation between two dudes just chatting about Clint Eastwood

Well, if they're talking about Dirty Harry, he disobeyed the rules so he could kill people, which is the opposite of Shining Knight's situation.

Wow never caught that

Technically, Shining Knight upheld the rules (of chivalry) by refusing to carry out Arthur's orders. Dirty Harry broke the rules because he found them inconvenient, and in the first movie that actually had consequences: his actions got the case thrown out. Shining Knight proved he was trustworthy because he wouldn't unthinkingly obey orders (a sharp contrast to Captain Atom).

@@Macrochenia Exactly! It may sound like apples to apples of a comparison at first, but when you really look into it, then it isn't.

People assume it's for kids because its animated. In reality, it's for everyone because it doesn't treat its audience like morons.

Young Justice is almost the same thing.

@@mainstreetsaint36 Well, that and BTAS aired on Fox Kids before it jumped to Kids' WB, where STAS aired. So the networks themselves were telling people it was for kids.

@@ilyamuromets2508 Which was massively stupid. Even during the better days of children's cartoons anyone could tell that anything DCAU wasn't merely for kids. Then again neither was Animaniacs (but that was for different reasons).

@@puterboy2 sad that young justice is the closest we'll ever get to that again. Invincible is great but I'm tired of the same old evil superman trope.

All forms of comics have had political points to them but it's how well it's done that matter's.

>Political >the political term being used ANYWHERE from 2013 to now I don't have the time or the argumentation prowess to seriously explain in depth what people actually mean by: "I hate it when Modern Superhero Media and Western properties always get political" But the Short answer is: It's always too ham-fisted, not subtle, blunt, its always only One Ideology, and its always conspicuous whos doing it and what the writers believe. And that's the issue every one takes with Modern Media that frames itself as political.

@@mitchellalexander9162 An issue that arises however is even at times it's subtle, and just there, to the point for example a person from a minority group just exists is enough to get grumpy fist shaking going as a rather obvious show of what is going on here in the heads of the folk shouting the loudest. I would personally caution against assuming this is what "people" mean, because there is truly a lot of hate that likes to hide in the bushes. One can inadvertently end up sitting on a hate bandwagon without knowing it. Also, because "The people" is usually in terms of fandoms actually just a very loud minority (whom can still hoodwink and try to usually get more people to march in beat to their drum to look mightier than they are) who claims ownership over something and cannot handle that they aren't the sole voice dominating a medium no more, it's very wise to be skeptical anytime "the people" get brought up. This same point applies to many vague terms, because they can easily be understood in many ways without actually saying the points that have rustled one's jimmies. Which, again, allows for the hate to flow, because It's easy to hide behind vague terms and act all legitimate. Critique given is best done clearly, because to give vague critique helps no one grow, and allows for dogs and buried bones to hide while whistling very loud.

@@videocrowsnest5251 You're completely divorced from reality which is why most of your post is vague rhetoric. It's because media has gotten polarized that you have reactionaries, and they say the same thing you do, which is to call them hateful and double down. Authoritarians often stay in control by pointing to a problem they create.

​@@graveyardshift6691 Well to be fair, one side does act like the absurdist cartoon villain that Superfriends era DC heroes would beat up and the other... doesn't. So while everyone agrees the Cadmus arc is one of DC's best stories, it's not that modern audiences are being treated poorly. It's that in the real world, one side is kind of lost touch with the basic heroism DC heroes symbolize and acting like... well children.

I used that line with one of my own villans to start an intriguing and mystery plot. "How many of us do you have to kill to keep us safe?" "7,832 more." "Why?" "Read my thesis. It's public."

@@MeepChangeling I don't know if this was your intention, but that actually made me laugh. Like, someone asks a question that's meant to get the villain to reconsider their evil ways, and the villain basically says "Just Google it". XD

Ever heard of Wargaming, universe like Warhammer literally tosses planets of recently recruited to save one insignificant and obviously heretical Hive Planet!

@@XSilver_WaterX 40k is absolutely the WORST example you could ever give for this kind of question, because 40k is satirical. They will always sacrifice an entire planet just to "save the rest", and very rarely is that action given any more thought than that.

@@MeepChangeling that line is both hilarious and is actually intriguing, hilarious that he can give an exact number to a rhetorical question meant to show hypocrisy and intriguing because he can give an exact number and is thinking on a level the audience can't comprehend

I feel like its easy to make superheroes cynically over power A**holes. I mean its really easy for someone like superman to overreach in power and that's what a lot of superman goes evil stories do and then they basically make him control a police state. red sun does that, injustice does that, and superman animated did that a time or two. Though I really love it most when we see superheroes just want to be genuinely good people like superman vs the elite/ whats so funny about truth, justice and the American way? It is really good when he fights against that idea like in superman vs. the kkk. like superman and Captain America are kinda the ideal of the ubermench and I really love to see them take down the very people who idolize that perfect ideal person as something that needs to be achieved through hate. though I do find it kinda funny superheroes kinda go in cycles, sometimes people want them to be power fantasy robin hoods saving people from themselves and then sometimes people want them to be Clint eastwood types saving the world by eradicating the ills of the worlds. Though I perfer the former than the latter cause its not as fun to see superman be the bad guy or otherworldly alien come to save us from ourselves to me, its more fun for me to see him reject all that as the simple kid from Kansas.

I love that Superman from God's and Monsters. Especially the short with Braniac...

Hell yeah

Gods & Monsters has no right being as good as it is for a deliberately unconnected elseworlds story and yet it’s one of my favourite superhero movies and I’m mad we’ll likely never see those characters again.

JL Gods and Monsters deserves it's own continuity of comics, movies, and animated series.

damn, that's a really cool point that I never realized before

Alongside the Robin Hood archtype too.

Yep. All you'd need is maybe a Samurai and you'd have a complete set.

@@WhiteFangofWar feugo 🔥🔥🔥🔥

​​​@@jaspertaylor2810 Or the Greek hoplite. The OG DC heroes. Edit:. I say this right before I remember Wonder Woman is supposed to be a template for the Greek heroes.

It's why Batman, the one superhero that truly embodies this idea (as one of his defining traits is that he has no powers), is the one people connect to the most/the most popular.

I think Superman TAS said it best “the world didn’t need a Superman, just a brave one.” Anyone can be a hero the issue is no body wants to so nobody is

that was the entire point behind kingdom comes storyline heroes became adrenaline junkies. characters like magog were just killing villains with no thought for the consequences.

​@@nathanielgarza9198 anyone can do heroic acts, but nobody is gonna be out here like superman and make everything right with the snap of a finger because that's impossible.

@@sebaschan-uwu even if someone had the same abilities as Superman they wouldn’t use it to do good They would use it as they strive for convenience and their own satisfaction

Omni man goes through a gargantuan arc in the comics, same with Jonah (he's pretty much best friends with spidey and knows his secret identity. Peter even calls him family)

He sometimes plays against that type. He voiced Tenzin in Legend of Korra! That's about as allied with the local superhero as you get...well, to an extent. He was also a hard-ass on Korra initially, but homegirl needed to get some lessons from the school of hard knocks =P

@Will N Ok? and? in the comics they are pretty much family now. he nearly died saving aunt may (I think) from spider slayer. I did not know the captain America stuff though and that is hilarious and amazing.

And they always look like him

@Will N ❤

No different then countries with nukes.

Superweapon? Pschh... Try pointing a super _man_ at Earth. That's orders of magnitude worse. Lex Luthor would be absolutely right about Superman if the Man of Steel's virtue were not completely 100% without compromise (something Luthor couldn't possibly know for certain, and preposterously unlikely if true). Think "Legacy" without the brainwashing. Think the Justice Lords. Think Injustice. Sure, _we_ know Superman doesn't have a malicious bone in his body (usually)... but _they_ don't. Fear of an unstoppable powerhouse with no practical hard counter is perfectly rational.

@@draketheduelist That's true except Lex isn't afraid, he's just jealous

They came up with the idea after they realized how vulnerable they were during the Thanagar Invasion.

@@mohsin90ish also petty.

Yeah I remember these guys were the All Star Squadron

That's awesome

Thank you for reminding everyone of this fact. This just makes the show age better

I thought the Justice Society of America was DC's original super team

Yep, and the team were also referenced in the Stargirl TV series, which is possibly DC's best live-action show, period; the first season is a masterpiece imo. (Unfortunately, the show is ending soon) Shining Knight appears in the show as well.

Great point. The modern Waller has the same problem as the current takes on Harley Quinn, namely an inability (unwillingness?) to understand the core of the character. Waller is a fundamentally principled person who exists in a world that time & time again forces her to compromise. Most writers find it easier to make her a one-note meditation on badassery, ignoring how much a rich, nuanced Waller can bring to any given story.

Yes. DCAU gave us an awesome iteration of Waller. She had points for real that resonate with me. DCAU's Lex Luthor was another master stroke as well🔥 Great writing through and through

By far best Waller, none other holds a candle

Like in DC movies, and the last bit of a DC animated ( when Waller was drawn slim). Waller was a villain. She isn't she is a anti-hero. In the movie, she killed her whole team because she ----- up.

And they also typically make her big as a house for some reason...

i was getting ready to say the exact same thing, he really didnt even care. im not even exactly sure why he stopped to be honest

Eiling’s final words honestly goes back to his fight with Shining Knight. Eiling argues that there’s a new sense of duty regarding the idea of the protecting the people hence the idea of “you’ll see” while Shining Knight says there isn’t and that the unconditional idea of wanting to protect people is all there needs to be. Eiling’s forfeit in the end is less of him choosing to ignore his hypocrisy, but more of him giving up trying to win his current audience. His you’ll see argument gives rise to the idea that he believes he’s right and believes that people in time will come to agree with him so he’s playing into the idea that time will prove him right and show people agreeing with him. And while it can seem that this new perspective makes the whole ending seem hollow as it seeming makes the ending more of a small victory against Eiling’s long term agenda, it proves to disservice him in another way. Eiling is also wrong because he’s methodology, at least in the way he presents it, won’t be able to be given rise because he’s not openly showing the merits of it. Eiling is playing that time will turn people cynical and agree with him, but for those who are shown the merit of heroes and the inherent good of them, that cynicism will never develop.

@@firewolf950tfwgaming7 There is a sort of beautiful irony to the whole situation. The concept of service for the sake of doing good is completely lost on Eiling who is a career military man. With the superheroes, paramedics, firefighters, and even ordinary civilians, they didn't need a reason to be heroes or to help those in trouble they just did it because it was the right thing to do. Eiling by contrast is a jingoist who views service as ensuring superiority over a perceived enemy. He has an "Us versus Them" mentality. But the Justice League doesn't see it that way, it's not "Us versus Them" it's just "Us". No matter where a danger occurs it's the people who they protect.

​@@firewolf950tfwgaming7 What's even more of a loss for Eiling is that in the end he never really makes a reappearance after this episode. Not even in other DCAU media (so far or at least to my knowledge) that focuses on the events after JLU state anything about him. In the future they still have the Justice League and in the far far future they have the Legion of Superheroes. People in the DCAU still need Superheroes but have no need for Super Soldiers like Eiling.

Spider-Man says something similar to Deadpool. "You don't want to be a hero, you want to be loved for being a hero. It's not the same thing".

Green Arrow, Speedy, Vigilante, the Shining Knight, Stargirl and S.T.R.I.P.E.S. were all in this episode as an homage to The Seven Soldiers of Victory from the 1940s, a team which was revived in the Bronze Age in "Justice League of America" issue 100. (Stargirl and S.T.R.I.P.E.S represent the Star-Spangled Kid & Stripesy, the original members who don't appear in the League.)

@@robboyte1101 oh yeah and that's another reason for what made this episode so clever. but the general point still is that prior to this episode the casual viewer/comic enjoyer would probably not have known half these characters but episodes like this would have easily made people fall in love with them. additional thing, this may or may not be intentional, but I love how for vigilante, instead of doing the generic "man from the past brought to the future is amazed/befuddled by basic appliances" and instead he is weirdly technologically savvy (he has a home theater and was able to grasp how to fly an alien ship fairly well)

I was a little kid when these shows came out. Justice league and JLU is how I discovered Jason Blood /Etrigan. Now he's my absolute favourite comic book character. I found so many other heroes that I love so much cuz of this. It made me love comics and specifically made me love DC over Marvel.

I like calling it Mumen Rider energy. I swear I cherish the fact that some of what powered shows like JLU seem to have survived in those fight against cynicism superhero manga.

@@VampireNinjaBunnies Hell yeah Etrigan is dope!

It's how she is portrayed. This show and Superman/Batman public enemies portrayed her as wanting the best only to find out she was wrong. The other portrayals of her show her as a bitch who wants to control everyone.

I mean, she always had a point it's just there needs to be checks and balances. Both sides has to you know... NOT BOTH BE EVIL for those checks and balances to actually work. Or at the very least maintain the same goal of wanting to protect people. It's why the end of the arc is a good thing to start. Working with the world instead of being above it in a literal way like Waller said. Like, super villains exist. They already have people they can fear. At least superheroes want to help. Need to just give a balance to it.

what about the ending?

I thought she had a point with Project Batman Beyond, too.

@@philliptivis3082 that was the worst thing that ever came from this show and the worst thing to happen to batman beyond

That's really one of the reasons this show was amazing, they weren't afraid to pull out characters no one cared about because they knew that each character has their different philosophy for being a hero and that's what makes a universe interesting

@@DavidElendu It also helped make the Universe feel alive. The fact that they weren't some random hero but someone who had their own comic and story to tell.

The company that would later become DC Comics was originally two companies owned by the same people. All-American Comics which had the heroes who were members of the JSA and National Periodicals which published Superman and Batman. The two companies merged after 1945 as National Periodicals changed the name to DC Superman in the late '70's. The Seven Soldiers Of Victory was an attempt to recapture the success of The Justice Society Of America using National Periodical characters.

Which is why I mock all the shows who think it would be too hard to flesh out the B-listers and side characters because they're too busy shoveling all the attention on their vapid self insert/marysue/favorite child/mouthpiece main protag. Lookin at you snyderverse.

Suprise there hasn't been a DC General Eiling Vs Marvel Ross Red Hulk death battle yet ...

crimson avenger was absolutely based in this episode and he didn't say a fuckin word lol

he's avenging something and he'll find out after blasting lmao

​@@Fr3k3I thinl he was voiced by Kevin Conroy in a previous episode

@@keithharrissuwignjo2460 "Excuse me, Madam, have you seen this pig?"

Minor correction: They are from the Golden Age.

@@willn2334 They were more used to replace Green Arrow because of existing continuity making Green Arrow being from contemporary times. Now, due to Stargirl Spring Break Special, its canon that Green Arrow and Speedy were members of the original 1940's team thanks to time travel.

Damn! You got me there, as a comic fan im ashamed of not knowing that!! Hat off to you sir and thanks!!

So... dang... can you imagine using this material for an adaptation of something like All-Star Superman or What's so funny about Truth, Justice, and The American Way? It kinda feels like both, in a sense.

you did good

@Will N - Might be a stretch, but the cop Green Arrow shakes hands with (seen at 6:10 in this video) could be a sly wink at Guardian, as his secret ID back in the 1940s was a cop and this guy looks a bit like him (even the patch on his shoulder resembles Guardian's shield to a degree).

​@@susanhillwig5784alright, i'll bite, who is this 'guardian'

​@@Sarah12471 - Those kids you mentioned are the Newsboy Legion, a Golden Age gang of boys created by Joe Simon & Jack Kirby who appeared in Star-Spangled Comics. The Guardian -- a variation on Simon & Kirby's own Captain America -- appeared in the strip both in his heroic guise and as a beat cop, in both cases helping to keep the boys out of trouble. In the more modern era, all those characters are closely tied to the Cadmus Project: the boys grew up to become scientists and such, eventually creating clones of their childhood selves (going by their old nicknames and everything) and creating a new, youthful body for their old friend the Guardian and making him head of security for Cadmus. The 1990s Superboy series by Karl Kesel features them heavily.

@@susanhillwig5784 ah interesting

The one that gets me is the one where GL, Flash, and Hawkgirl find themselves in a 1950s flavored world with heroes that embody the values and prejudices of that period. Eventually the JL and local heroes realize to stop the BBEG, the local heroes have to die again. Their response? "We did once to save this world, we can d it again." I'm of course savagely paraphrasing it, but that was the gist of it.

I'm not crying...ok, I'm crying a LOT

i remember feeling bored watching it as a kid too lol i guess because i was into more goofy cartoons. but ive watched a lot clips lately and it completely hits different now that i can appreciate the writing along with the underlying tones and themes

The thing is gods actually exist in the DC universe and the writers in real life confirmed they are really gods so having a atheist around seems like nonsense. On the internet People in forums are more and more are calling atheist in stories were gods are real stupid especially edgy atheist even real life atheist think that is dumb. Why did the make hawk girl a atheist it make no since.

@@michaeltaylor788 Because hawk girl doesn’t deal with God in a regular basis. The gods she does face are more advanced aliens or eldich abominations. Not really a higher power

I love that Eiling basically concedes the argument when he hears that. It's rare that a villain is beating solely by convincing him that he has made a mistake.

@@abduljah9355 Except he wasn't convinced he made a mistake. He basically just said "Yeah, you have a point, but I'm still right" and left on that note.

I'd like to think that if a crossover ever did happen...the Avengers (and associates) and the JL would be handling whatever was going on, maybe after a brief scuffle of not knowing who's an ally or enemy, and then the tide would start to turn and the bad guys would start winning. And then...when they're finally about to get their asses kicked and the villians are about to win...Supes finally shows up. But after initially throwing a beating...he too ends up getting his ass kicked. But he fights so hard, and refuses to quit, that it rallies the "big guns" of the JL and Avengers, and they in turn rally everyone else. They pick up Supes, dust him off, and then everyone fights, as a team, and wins. Like...Endgame style.

Look up the Amalgam Event (DC and Marvel!) Spider-boy, Wolverine and Batman, and some others

DC does have Thor but I’m not sure about the worthy enchantment.

@Will N that’s really interesting

Marvel and DC actually had several crossovers in the 70's to the 90's. I don't think Shining Knight appeared in any of those, but Superman at least was able to wield Mjolnir (and Cap's shield) in the JLA/Avengers crossover.

Question got ballz of steel when he asked Powergirl to prove his point by killing him and she couldn't I was like: Daaaamn 4d chess, that guy really is more psycho and paranoid than batman I know he's like a watered down pg13 version of Rorschach from watchmen but the faceless dude have charm and the best girl (Huntress).

Rorschach is crazy version of The Question

Plus, Questions singing is magnificent in that episode

@@CMCSE thats really the point with question. Batman is a detective, he chases leads and solves cases. The question is absolutely fucking unhinged so he investigates conspiracy theories and random nonsense that people can't even imagine, without any of the resources or combat ability batman has. Also rorschach is the pg18 question, as he's largely based on question's '87 comic run

Still a little upset that Rorschach didn’t meet the Question in Doomsday Clock. Would have been a great crossover with maybe a throwaway line about a conspiracy in the DC universe that turns out to be true in the Watchmen and Question just muttering “Knew it” to himself.

I actually think deconstruction helps. Superheroes CAN be dumb, just look at the stuff on the cinemas today, or at the silver age. Sometimes it's just flashing lights and fireworks and ideals do get forgotten. The good stuff, like JLU, is timeless though. But we need someone like The Boys (The TV show at least) to poke fun at the flashing lights so other people can come around and give us stuff like JLU.

@@pauloandrade3131 I'm not against deconstruction stories especially if it is well written. Maybe gonna suprise you but I really liked The Boys comic book (until last part, a weak finale imo) and not liked TV series because of how tame it is compared to comic. Garth Ennis is especially good at writing that kind of stories. His Hitman run is incredible and he found a way a merciless antihero like Tommy Monaghan worked on DC universe and work with Justice League. Hope one day he get a TV series. I'm just against the idea of "heroism ideals are oldschool" mindset. Whoever gain superpowers, he have to be an asshole, Why? That mind set is what I find dumb. Inspirational stories are always timeless. "Superman vs Elite", "Batman Under the Red Hood", this episode of Justice League series. They are always gonna be good.

@@willn2334 Yes, first watched movie than read the book. It's one of my all time favorite stories. It is a good example superhero registiration law story done right. Its messages are onpoint.

@@willn2334 I agree with you, the transition is excellent, it just respects DC's history and legacy. Another thing I like about The New Frontier is how it used less known DC characters. Freaking Dinasour island is major thread, that's how to make great story. When I watched its movie version I suprised how it touched major historical events and handles well. And the book is another beast itself.

Isn’t that crazy. We get so much superhero content but I hardly see them saving a normal person, or sitting down to talk with somebody just because they saw they were sad. That kind of humanity is why I adore this show.

Cameron and Andre, this is such a great point! I'm developing my own superhero webcomic right now, and the protagonist only has the power of flight. When I sat down to write the first pages, I began wondering about how I could best introduce him... Then the question "How could he save a cat?" wandered around my head, and I just wrote him simply trying to save a cat for the first chapter! Hero basics!

@@nairocamilo very nice, where can i find this webcomic of yours?

@@nairocamilo AWWWWWWW

@@AndreNitroX unfortunately not published yet, in development I'm thinking of publishing it first in a local webcomic site, but when I do it in the big ones (Tapas and Webtoon) I can come back here with a search keyword

yeah me and my friend recently talked about this idea, that their should/need to be characters like superman who are the ideal that we should aspire to. Sure their still can be protagonists who are more flawed or antiheros but there should be a balance between the two and we shouldn't dismiss one over the other.

Well said, just because the world is cynical and our leaders make terrible decisions, doesn’t mean everyone with power is a terrible human being, there are actual heroes who believe in helping other people and trying to keep the world running without being narcissistic or power hungry.

Asking the real questions here.

@@AndreNitroX a saying a person I once knew had was "they all go in to help but get worn down by soft chairs and good alcohol". I genuinely think few people go into democratic politics with Ill intentions, I don't see how you would get far if you did with such a cynical scam hungry media, but over time their morals and hopes get worn down by a mix of comfort, power and potential wealth so they end up clinging to it all rather than doing what needs to be done or would be the morally right thing to do.

@@00yiggdrasill00 agreed, personally i think politicians shouldn't get such a high salary or fame, it should be a type of community service. But that's not the world we live in. Power corrupts, absolute power, corrupts absolutely.

He left an amazing legacy.

🦇🤟🏿💜

Well, the Invincible comics had been publishing for years before this, and Watchmen came out in the 80s. Watchmen is referenced when Batman asks who guards the guardians. Questioning the validity of superheroes isn’t a new thing. Punisher basically exists as the idea that superheroes don’t work. Feel like the mainstream audience is just catching up. Personally, think the question of what if superheroes were bad is just not that interesting. Because it’s obvious. Wouldn’t it be bad if Superman were evil? Yeah, obviously. Superheroes are an ideal.

Everytime I watch it, I am so emotional by the efforts of the d list heroes and the crowd of people, especially the old lady showing us what real heroes are made of.

Also my absolute favorite episode.

I can’t stress enough how much I love this show. It is gold to me because of the writing

Amen. To this day this cartoon is more mature and realistic than any of the CW shows

Yes

@@AndreNitroX even more mature than Disney + shows .

@@playername9391 agreed

Well said I hardly ever see a superhero film or show nowadays where there was genuine concern for other people like it was displayed here. These are cartoons and yet they are more real than any of the live action stuff.

Man of Steel did

The Newsboy Legion were also WW2 characters. Amazed that so many folk missed that it was Gabby giving Eiling lip.

Reminds of that episode in which they show Booster Gold's own "little" adventure in which he saves the world (or the universe, I don't remember) but no one knows about it since the League is out there fighting Mordru at the same time, we see the heroics of a B-lister character and the fight of the main members of the League against an universal-level threat villain is not seen by the watcher.

Being played by Nathan fillion increases the like ability even more

@@AndreNitroX I don't know him but he sounds cool with a last name like Filion

@@flaco3462 he usually plays hal jordan the green lantern, but i recommend checking out his shows called "Castle" and "firefly"

@@AndreNitroX Ohhhh

@@AndreNitroX Especially Firefly. Vigilante also shows up in the episode where the Thanagarian remnants try one more time to kill Shayera. He's partnered up with Vixen who's played by Gina Torres, who plays Fillion's second-in-command Zoe in "Firefly".

Don't forget about Grant Morrison's Seven Soldiers of Victory.

Day by day, I try to do at least one positive thing. Keep hope alive

Yeah do good, getting just shit for it. No thanks, i dont do anything good for this ungrateful world.

McDuffie was a heavyweight

@@EasyE3939 Yeah. His writting represent what's so cool about comics, a perfect balance between action and adventure but also adressing complex and relable topics and issues, making the stories much more interesting that the typical "good vs evil" troope. Plus he was the creator of Static Shock, one my favorite super hero shows.

@@alexandrefrauches132 💯 I think all the DCAU is brilliant but Justice League/Unlimited just had a level of heart, maturity and consistency that isn't matched without him. I love Justice League vs. the Fatal Five, but I just imagine what it would have been with his polish.

Dini wasn't too present in the JL/JLU cartooons.