Joe Budden On If Drake's Reference Tracks Affect His Legacy | "Does He Consider Himself An Emcee?" 

"Them super powers gettin' neutralized, I can only watch in silence"

Stop making excuses for the boy.

You cant give Drake a pass to claim to be the greatest rapper, but use reference tracks to get there under the guise of a pop star ! Respect the Art and Culture

IF HE'S NOT WRITING HE CANT BE THE BEST!

Drake having writers for his hits is stat padding

Drake is an actor who can rap. It takes skills to mimick so many different personas and styles. But he is not a MC. His ghostwriters are

i’ll definitely say this. drake is SOOOOO lucky he came up in this generation that’s for sure

Drake fans don’t understand what a MC is and don’t care to know the difference between rap and hiphop

Excuses. Excuses. Moving the goalpost in the Art of Hip Hop. The beauty and the first rule, especially in a battle, is to write your own lyrics.

it absolutely does. Drake is a karaoke rapper. Not a true MC

This dude said Drake has proven he could write at an elite level "WHEN he chooses to". I thought I was watching Joke of the day.

Here is the issue. It’s worse when he went and told Lebron he wrote mob ties. That’s the real issue. “YOU LIED”- Kendrick

Meek exposed Drake for having a ghost writer and Drake got a ghost writer to diss him 😂😂😂

Man, if ya'll don't stop with this cap. Drake is excluded from those conversations about all time, anything! How can you say he can still claim to be the goat with this amount of foolery going on with him?

37 years old and they still calling you the Boy. Lol

Idk how ice and ish don’t consider themselves OVO stans

“80 percent of his catalogue can be written by others and I don’t hold it against him” is basically what they saying. Never heard any other rapper get this type of leeway. And just cuz he say oh some shit gonna come out about me doesn’t make it any less bad. Like bro know he doin foul shit so he know shit gonna come out 🤣🤣

“Back to back I lIKE that RECORD, imma come back to that for the record.” 👀

“He’s busy, he be on tour” okay so if that’s the case, his consistency isn’t proving artistry, it proves that it’s a machine. Where there is machine, there is no art. TDE was a business yes, but these cats didn’t put out every year and top wasn’t forcing nobody to do that either.. everybody on TDE is a top performing lyricist, some more than others, but none less, high standard rapping. And rapping, putting word to paper, is the art form of rapping. And the fact that niggas let him get away with it, proves more so the threat of an emcee he is.. we would never let nas, hov, em, or even Kendrick get away with claiming they’re the greatest rappers, yet having other push yo pen.

Saying that he needs reference tracks so he can drop faster is crazy. I understand he does it to make money but he doesn't HAVE to drop every year. The reason we wait years for other artists is b/c we want to hear what THEY have to say. I hate how waiting for authentic art is portrayed as a negative thing.

This is why I never take Ice opinions on anything even remotely seriously.

That's why I never thought he won the battle with Meek Mill. Yeah his tracks were better and they were fun but it wasn't him

This shows Drake is not rap artist He's a scam artist 😭

all I hear is excuses, nobody asks him 2 drop a fuckin album every year, maybe he should take a year or 2 off & let his pen buildup instead of always tryna jack da next hit from a smaller artist

Drake fans really be doing the most to defend him. Logical gymnastics masters.

Lil Wayne, Curren$y, and J. Cole have put out music on a very consistent basis, sometimes more than once and they don't have a writing team. That's not an excuse I'm willing to extend to anyone in rap, I'm sorry.

Stop saying “we know Drake has a pen and can get busy when he wants to” cause we really don’t. If some of his most popular songs have been shown to be ghost written or straight up stolen why wouldn’t his less popular ones? He’s shown us he can’t freestyle on multiple occasions and with all these reference tracks we know he can’t write a song by himself either. This is the equivalent of your mom doing your project for you and when you present it in class your teacher gives you an A for the greatest project ever

The excuses these cats are giving Drake is crazy

Drake should never be in anyone's top 5 if you really value what a rapper is vs just enjoying the music and leaving it at that.

Drake is a "Actor" he just acts like an MC very well 😆

Ice, ish, and flip shouldnt discuss this topic. Giving bail for him having a writer is insane. "Others cant give you consistent music like he does they release every 2 years" uhhhh yes because thats a normal thing your brain isnt always in create mode. The hell is ice talking about? He addresses things from the perspective of a child 😂

Drake knows about the unwritten rules in rap. He knows that you can't get writing help with your rap verses and then claim that you're the #1 rapper, but he keeps doing it. If you're being objective then you know that Drake needs to be excluded from conversations that has to do with who's the best rapper. If you're a pop artist/entertainer it doesn't matter that much, but if you want to be perceived as an MC you can't do that.

1) it's not proven that time-stamp Drake is really Drake (100%). Like Joe said safe to assume 2) Drake in his pop bag/RnB bag is what got him and kept him at the top of the game (90 % of his most streamed songs are the melodic "just hold on we're going home" type. And he (and his fanbase) weaponizes his pop star status in the EMCEE goat debate. Because, if you want to put him in the Kanye debate there's no issue there 3. Don't use you pop schedule as an excuse not to write when you use that same pop schedule to stunt on those who take the time off to go and write

Mob ties is a dissed record towards Pusha-t and Kanye, so this changes my perception of Drake, he told his writers to write him a dissed song. So we're supposed to believe he wrote the other diss songs

Wait wtf. It went from if we heard a mob ties reference track I’d be hurt(then it releases) to nah if I heard a stay scheming reference track I’d be hurt? Lol goal posts keep moving for drake

Rap is similar to poetry. If we heard that Shakespeare had people write some of his poetry and plays, it would dent his reputation. Writing your own lyrics is a huge part of the art form.

Im sorry but there isnt a single Drake rap track that makes him HIM ..he makes amazing sounding music ..but the ghostwriting and ovo sweatshop takes away any shot at being the best emcee

If Drake last diss song is him rapping rapping, he should stop...

He's consistent because he has reference tracks that's not consistency that's plagiarism

Ice you thought he wrote Mobb Ties what are you talking about.

Kendrick Lamar did say iin an interview that you can't claim to be a rapper if you don't write your own raps. That's why he was felt so insulted by J Cole to even claim that Drake was in competition with him. It's just Big him

You can’t say the lesser songs don’t matter!! Because it all adds up to the “body of work”! It’s like using PED’s in sports… the marginal talents become good and the good become great and the great become legends. I’m a dj and I know what Drakes catalogue means to my business… but you can’t say it doesn’t matter if you look at it from the perspective of people who do it themselves and accept whatever they get from what they’re able to put in. Respectfully.

Then why were people all in their feelings when Yasiin Bey called him pop… So Many SKUs!!

That vory reference track is hard asf, i want to hear that song

It does affect him…he’s a fraud 😮

I don't understand why they're saying only certain rap songs having reference track would hurt drakes image in their eyes. Any song where he didn't pen the raps himself should do that

If Kendrick Lamar or Jcole did this yall would kill them to no end

Mfs gone find a way to cape for Drake lol. It's wild that you gotta say, "I think he wrote" to make your point. It's also crazy we giving him a pass because he puts out back to back mediocre albums. He doesn't make classic albums. The ones who take their time are putting out quality music.

Other than when the person isn't primarily a rapper/MC (Dr Dre etc) I don't understand why having a ghostwriter would be acceptable. And in other genres, there's a reason why Madonna is valued for what she is (an entertainer who sings songs written for her) and someone like Joni Mitchell (writes her own stuff, personal songs) is considered an artist.

Vory's version is better

I really wish Drake had spent the last 10 years maturing as a person and developing his own sound instead of riding other people's waves and paying for sex. This battle could have been so much more interesting.

If 0-100 is a reference track then I'm done

Joe should be the only one talking!

Even without the ghostwriters, Drake was never top 50 Rappers. Most successful hiphop artist, yeah but when it comes to lyricism and skill he was never close to the top

"We gather today, for the elimination of Drake" - Kanye West

They use his commercial success to prove he's the one, but in reality he using ghostwriters for that .

The double standard for Drake is crazy the excuses people make for him is crazy

hearing them coming up with so many excuses hurts my brain. They seem like they don't even care about hip-hop. Having an album every year is no excuse. He was consistently delivering bad albums/mixtapes. That isn't consistency, that's trash. You uses writers to release every year to stay relevant, not to release good music

Mmmmmm… sorry but when has Drake put pen to pad by himself?? Which song(s) are these

We should have known when he was freestyling off his phone on flex

Fair play to the light skin dude saying 70% of rapping is the writing, he’s been saying some super off point stuff lately but that was spot on

He was never an MC... Drake was never in my top anything...I still fuck with his music If you are RAPPING...you need to write your shit!!! If it's a pop rnb song 10000 people can be credited

They not like us. Drake is a big part of the industry. He owns the rappers who have dissed him. He made a power move. They not like us

I do not believe Drake ever wrote and it was not til he claimed to be top 5 and beefing that he started to get criticized.

Drake is an actor that can rap. His acting skills are crazy to go from Toronto Man Drake to UK Roadman Drake to Drizzy Marley and so on. His writers are the real MCs.

I don't wanna here non of this shhh. How the hell can you tell when he's using a writer or not till the reference track appears. End of the story

If Black Thought had a reference track ppl would lose it.

Goodness gracious, I'm watching Joe Budden change the rules for .... Drake.

They don't care that Drake didn't write this and that,but continue to act like because he got rich off these ignorant so called hip hop fans,he should be mentioned as a great is hilarious.

The issue is we have no idea if the songs that made Drake considered a top tier rapper were really written by him. Imagine if we found out Stephen King didn't write his own books, could he be considered one of the greatest authors?

“Absence of Evidence does not mean Evidence of Absence” - Dr Carl Sagan

These 2 dudes can never let Drake fall in their eyes People cannot handle this dude falling from grace and it is LAUGHABLE and TELLING Very Trumpish type of person with his fucking crowd

Appreciate the realness in your content, it's like a dose of authenticity

Ive NEVER seen so many excuses made for an artist EVER. Like what the hell is going on here

It’s funny how when Nicki screams “I don’t respect these girls because they don’t write their own raps” y’all agree with her and she’s been saying this for years and that is the reason Nicki has a lot of respect as a rapper but when it comes to Drake y’all give him a pass and say it doesn’t matter whether he writes his own raps or not why is that?

We can't deny his success. No one in this genre has had a top spot for this long. That being said he's absolutely not an Emcee. You have to write your own stuff. Hes like Anakin in Episode 3. He gets a seat at the council but he is not granted the rank of master.

DAMN THE CAPIN WOULD MAKE BATMAN JEALOUS. DRAKE IS NOT A RAPPER., HE IS NOT LIKE US

Ice and Ish keep making excuses for Drake SMH.

Saying he's proven to be one of the best while the topic is about him being exposed for not making is own music is craazy. LMAO.

Drake could have done all this and been fine. The problem is clamming the top spot as an emcee when you know you have help. Its like saying SHEIN is better than GUCCI because they put out more clothes. STOP IT

Until somebody plays a beat, and see drake actually write…everything is suspect b.

He did at one point, but after Meek outed his Ghostwriters, he knew that he would never have a realistic chance convincing the core rap audience again, which is why he chose to mainly focus on poppy hit records and numbers instead.

Why do ppl act like it doesn't matter who wrote a rappers raps? This whole discussion is open and shut; writing is what matters

Drake’s pen is gonna have a big fat asterisk no matter where you put him. Putting out an album every year like Call of Duty and having help is wild

Bruh f the reference he lied on the shop that he made mob ties so doesn’t that show he willing to lie about his artistry gotta stop the bs 😂

Drake's got more reference tracks and lace fronts than Lil Kim!

The hell is he talking bout. If he’s a pop star how can he be an emcee?

It's not a, "reference track" if its the same exact track. It's Karaoke.

9:32 Drake has loyal fans. The fact that he can't wait more months to actually work on a track, instead of using other people's work is worrisome.

It's not a problem if he uses reference tracks when people say he's a pop star. But when you're entering him into the conversation of a GOAT MC - no. You can't have reference tracks and writers if you're the greatest MC.

When hip-hop went commercial, it truly went dead. If you get millions, then your art you represent becomes comprimised.

It’s been so many references tracks from Drake that at this point he should not be mention with elite Rappers. They tip toeing around it and people like ICE Ish and Joe are the reason why drake continues it

Im so tired of people calling it a reference trac he took a whole verse rhythm style everything he just remade his song

Rappers and MCs write. Period.

Goalposts are being moved like a mf. Yes, it affects his legacy. Big part of the reason of why the goats are the goats is not only their rap skills but also their consistency, longevity and ability to make hits. He seems to be the only one who has so much help but it's swept under the rug

Let's stop bullshitting the topic. Drake is a Music Artist. He raps and sings songs that he writes and songs that other people write.

Drake has achieved what he was supposed to do. He’s multitalented

goal post being moved like crazy, i bet 1 kenny reference track drops its over for k dot

Sorry but this don't count. We need a reference track for a Time stamp record, not hooks and singy songy raps, cause the time stamps aint that. Next: Ice: He raps at an elite level Also Ice: I don't see him as an emcee.

The definition of MC as what organically is, are MCs like KRS_One, MF DOOM, Nas, Black Thought, Mos Def, Masta Ace, Rakim, Jay-Z, Big, Gza, etc I don't think Drake's name would ever pop out after any comma if we were not nursing feelings. Joe knows this too well to let some of these guys totally missing the point.