Jon Bernthal learns about military bureaucracy from Marine Raider @NickKoumalatsos82 

Jon, an absolute honor to share the mic with you! You’re the realest of the realest. 👊🏼

Something people don’t understand about special operations (SOF), is that there’s a rather basic and universal level of respect and equality between ranks on a team. I was the junior guy for 6 years on a team, but ran it under a colonel because I was capable of doing the job well. I had master sergeants and majors who would listen to me and treated me as a equal for being in charge. It didn’t necessarily matter they’d be doing the job for 25-30 years. I was an equal. You’ll almost never find that in the conventional military. People will let their egos and ranks make everything such a big deal, and turn everything into a “because I said so” pissing match. It’s truly amazing how America has the best military there is, when 90% of it is just people who let their egos and bad ideas roam free.

As a medically retired US Marine Raider (MARSOC) with 8 years of experience I can confirm that this man is speaking the truth. I used to speak out like he did also (tactfully) and it was never considered acceptable. Working in the Corps is highly frustrating, though it does have some awesome moments. Overall, its the best experience I ever had in life, but also the most miserable. Only other veterans truly understand this complex counter-intuitive sensation.

Love the punisher homage. Most people know that Jon played arguably the best punisher ever. But the punisher character was also a Marine, so very fitting for Nick to wear that logo during this podcast.

''Greeks don't fight like heroes, Heroes fight like Greeks.''

I enlisted Army at 17 and could've retired in 3 more years. Fuckkk that can't even imagine. Did my 3 and half years active, 1 tour, and came home. Salute to all my fellow Vets

Funny story: I was with supply at 2D MSOB (before it became 2D Marine Raider Bn) and took the new SgtMaj to our MCIF (MARSOC CIF). Swear to God, he asked me when and where does he get his toe shoes. What he was referring to were the Vibram toe shoes that were big amongst operators, MARSOC as a whole. I guess he had heard that when getting attached to MARSOC, he would be issued a pair. I was so extremely dumbfounded and no kidding asked him who told him he would get those issued because I wanted to call them a jackass.

One of the best podcast out there. Absolutely love Jons ability as a person to ask the right questions yet listen passionately to what is being said. Keep up the stellar work! 👊🧡👍

Thank you for putting him on the podcast.

Always look forward to a new episode. Keep em coming Jon!

2 people I’ve followed for awhile and highly respect. Great to see this sit down! Jon I love what your doing! Keep it up!

I think this is great ! Everyone of these episodes are fantastic and you ask the right questions and let the guest spill their guts. I Love the amazing people you bring in. These podcast make me a better man everyday after listening to these! Keep grinding my dude!

The part when y’all talked about getting out and everything gets worse instead of getting better like we thought, that’s the first I’ve heard someone explain it perfectly like that 🙏🏼 4 years out and finally finding myself again

Semper Fi brother. Mad respect for what you dudes do. Only did 4 years in the Corps, but eventually transitioned to the Army to go medical. Went from a Heavy Equipment Operator in the Corps and Army to a Respiratory Therapist. Didn't ever see the kind of stuff you did, but the frustration level was definitely there, purely based on the standards developed from the Marines.

Cant wait for this ep

Great video. Speak the truth nick. Awesome... real leadership is holding everyone accountable.

There are parallels to this man’s military experience and most civilian work places. There is always that one guy who speaks out and is often hated by the leadership. I’ve been doing my job for a long time and I know how things go. I encourage the ones who speak out to speak for the group. But I give them advice as far as how to approach a topic of concern. The ones who speak out are usually hot headed and reactive. They speak from the heart and don’t have filters. So I try to discuss potential topics of concern for them and how to form there thoughts to get the point across with ruffing too many feathers. You can catch more flies with honey then vinegar.

We're seeing a similar atmosphere in the Law Enforcement world in terms of the politics. The bullying and discrimination by command staff on 'lower level' members is absolutely disgusting. No support for the people doing the job at all. Very impressed with Bernthal as an interviewer!

Thank you gentlemen.

"What was pissin' you off about people?" "Everything" 🤣😂

One thing I learned while active duty and as a war zone contractor afterwards; the military is just another government bureaucracy. There are 10% "meat eaters" go getters who get the mission done no matter what it takes, and 90% bureaucrats. The bureaucrats are in charge and every opportunity they get, they remind the meat eaters that they're in charge.

Man it was the exact same thing when I was in and I felt like I was the only one that felt this way. Found it impossible to explain to people my opinion and why I got out. Nice to hear someone else say it.

Keep up the great work, amazing videos👍🏻

Did not know Bernthal had a podcast channel. This is great! And its great seeing the internal issues military members go through

I left the army for the exact thing and I had the same personality with speaking out at sensing sessions and calling stupid things out.

That is the king of real talks you cant get anywhere, but from the source. Thanks for the real deal guys

Just met jon today in person really cool dude down to earth. I was able to thank him for his podcasts and the work he does. Keep up the good work Jon your biggest fan homie.-Ben if I don't get a chance to say goodbye before you leave God bless my dude keep the content coming

I’m absolutely shocked you had Nick on!! Lol great guy and interesting as hell. Glad you found him!! 👍 thanks Jon

Ok I must say I’d never thought I would see this! I’m jealous I would loved to have sat near by to listen to you guys talk. Maybe one day I’ll get an interview once I’m done with my time in the corps I have ten more and I’ll be at my 20. Nick you know me we’ve spoke on your channel before

Thank you 🙏

I can’t wait for this one!!

Whaou, the incarnation of rage is a good man! Hope to see you more, in other roles. You deserve it !

Lone ya, Jon. Great show, broski..

@NickKoumalatsos82 you just described the last 10 years of my Police Career perfectly in the first 3 minutes of this video. And it was TIME to get out. I feel ya, brother. That shit takes a toll. SWAT was fun... but that pager/phone got heavy in the end.

Man. words from a real warrior, love these talks fam ❤

Much respect brother.

Such a dope video! Man I miss the SOC side of the world. True statements about the General. Few people understand the difference between managers and leaders.

Absolutely brilliant interview Real life. Thank you Nick for a life time of your service and Jon another touching to the heart interview. Keep moving forward God bless Thank you

Nice to see Nick on here. Semper Fidelis. Swift silent deadly

This was awesome. Where’s the whole interview?

Hey Nick, great to hear somebody take the BS out of what REALLY goes on in the USMC and war. Well done brother!!

Jon man you're an absolute gem of a human for wanting to explore and spend time with people across all boards about their journeys and path If you get a chance bud, reach out to some of the medal of honor recipients that are still alive... That would be a hell of a moment to bestow for sure I suggest Kyle carpenter

This was dame good wish it was longer tho.

Facts! This is why I left at 12 years also…

Bro I understand where you are coming from, I did 10 years and people were saying you are halfway there, stay in, but I could not, I was an E6 becoming the grumpy E7 that I never wanted to be...;jaded, no patience for "bootcamps" and golden boys, and I spoke my mind too much

No doubt, Nick speaks the truth. I was THAT guy throughout my military career, most of which was spent in the SOF community. Over the course of my time spent,going hard in the paint, I developed zero tolerance for bullshit, no matter who the bullshitter was. There is a definite rank structure, in the military, much less within the SOF community. However, there’s a much more defined grey area, when it comes to rank, or years of service. We listen to each other, and share a mutual respect towards one another. There is a saying among almost every branch of SOF, “Big Boy Rules”. I had an outspoken nature, ego driven for sure, and was unafraid to speak out when it came to “stupid shit” or just generally BAD ideas. I went head to head with many senior ranking “leaf eaters” over the, wanting to use poor common sense, when it came to utilizing Special Operations. I was unafraid to speak my mind, and probably why I never made it past E8. I was brutally honest, with seniors, peers, and subordinates alike, which garnered me respect, and animosity. Oh well, so be it. It served me well, and I hope directly affected success within my unit, and helped achieve mission success. Most of all I hope it saved lives. Experience ALWAYS trumps perceived authority. No matter what endeavor you find yourself a part of. Sometimes you have to make that proverbial wheel squeak, to get the grease. I had a legend of a Senior NCO tell me one time, “You know, there are more people in awe of the prestige of their position, than the responsibility that comes with it!” I’ve always found that to be a truism.

I felt the same way when I was getting out. I was very pissed off all the time in the last part of my enlistment. I was so tired of all the dumb bullshit. I was an E-5 and had a bad attitude about everything. So rather than stay in and "deal with it", I did myself and the people I was over to peace out. I did not like the person I was becoming either.

TOO TRUE!! What things were starting to piss you off? Where do I start..... Great vid and interview

Nick's hit the big time! Woot!

I’m the same way in law enforcement . It’s utterly tough to stomach the politics bureaucracy incompetence and horrendous leadership decade after decade . 5 years left ! Can’t wait !

The current officer structure is an antiquated system.

The world needs people like you, say what needs to be said, doesn't get any better on the civilian side.

It's not an Officer/Enlisted problem, it's about the mindset IMHO. I remember that as a young CPT, my CSM hated me because I told him that the "rule" against putting hands in pockets was stupid and something that only a desk jockey would be concerned about. Talented officers and NCOs are pushed out for the same reason

At the 12 year mark he was about to hit the point where he was going to have to eventually stop being a “doer” and start being a “teller” or “director.” That’s a hard transition.

Very similar problems in policing. I was a cop for 4 years and a lot of the things he said also happen in police work.

The problem with these guys is that they get to big in their own mind. I get that there are officers that won’t listen but you have to be tactful about it and not just say “that’s Fing stupid”. I’ve rarely ever worked with an officer that I couldn’t pull aside and talk, but I’ve worked with hundreds that wouldn’t be receptive if someone was disrespectful. Mission first and you’ll keep a lot of people safer that way. Just my two cents from a 16 year Gunnery Sergeant with 124 combat foot patrols under my belt from Afghanistan 🤷‍♂️ whatever that’s worth.

I wish he had finished the conversation about the general and how he handled the "problem".

"Operational requirement", looking cool is an Operational requirement.

I love the intro theme music

i did 14 yrs and it just ruined my body 4 blow out discs both rotators torn i have problems sleeping even because of pain I wake in pain i sleep in pain. I wake my wife from the groaning and tossing and turning. (to be clear i was not SOF i did do some Marsoc stuff with the MEU's but i wasnt "one of them" i was just a Marine )

I am a Navy veteran, but I still prefer Marines over sailors. Many people in the Navy tell you one thing to your face, and they backstab you later depending on how it benefits them. On the other hand, many Marines I know always kept it real. Also, you have to walk on eggshells when you work with the females in the Navy because they have weaponized MeToo. They use false accusations as weapons against male superviors who don't let them have their way because they know they can ruin your career even if you are innocent. Always use Pence Rule when working with the females in the Navy.

Jon seems like such a genuine person.

Great guest no holds barred typical squaddie chat he defo seen and dealt with a lot of shit

Great podcast Jon. You should get a cast member from twd on here I think that would be cool, you know discuss what you missed in the later seasons

Im in a different branch, and its just like this. Im conventional too, but we always run into issues with commanders not knowing what the hell is going on.

Real talk

They don’t put full episodes on YT anymore?

No way dude. Nick is awesome

damn good clip

I know exactly what he is talking about. I sit here 10 yrs post retirement after serving 22. I was USAF, but before anyone laughs or makes comments, I was a medic with 5 deployments under my belt, 2 yrs solid with the Army SOF in a joint tasking in Iraq and Afg. I saw both sides. Although the AF was a better way of life, it still had its issues. I came back a bitter E-7, sick of everyone around me, the politics and leadership lack of a spine, rolling my eyes at those without operational and field experience. All I wanted was to deploy and do my job as a medic. I still miss it, but cringe when I think of the past political BS...

Semper Fi Leatherneck

I served with a different branch, but I think a lot of people don’t get how badass marsoc is

Thank you for this, I had several commanders(Joni Ernst) that didn’t know her ass from her elbow and failed upwards to the Senate. Another put his unit in harms way because he wanted a 101st patch he failed upward to Lt.Col

We repeatedly requested cold weather flight gear because we flew in helicopters with the doors and windows open, in winter, in the mountains, at 120 kts, at ambient temperatures of like 17 degrees. But, since our squadron was in Southern California, and these were “just” training, our supply officer repeatedly denied our requests. Then, this asshole had the temerity to request a flight. Basically, anyone could submit a chit asking to come along for a flight for the hell of it. That way, the folks supporting us on the ground would see what we actually did when the helicopters left. His request was fast-tracked to the Skipper by us. There were other people that we liked that had chits in, but this guy was going flying with us ASAP! We made sure it was a tactics flight, because that meant we would have guns on and thus be required to have the doors and windows open with our hands outside, controlling our weapons, the entire flight. We also put him in the seat we knew experienced the most wind. He finally cried uncle at 6,000 feet over the mountains near Julian, CA at sub-freezing temperatures as my hands are practically frozen to my gun. He asked us to close the doors. I felt great joy when I responded over ICS, “Apologies, Sir. While our weapons are outside we have to maintain positive control. We can’t close the doors or windows.” Our requests for cold-weather gear were approved the next day.

my dad was in the Corps as was my younger brother. From their stories my impression was the Corps does things at time that make things harder not for effectiveness but from sheer stubborn stupidity.

Planning and practice, two different things... 😮

Beware of an old man in a profession where men usually die young - Kevin lacz - can you imagine how many deployments the government can fit into your contract and yes they can bend the rules.

Wow, the first 5 mins of this podcast sounds like the same shit we dealt with 30 years ago in the Marine Corps! Nothing changes in the MC. And what Nick said, 8 years is a long time living a life like that. I understand why he got out, same reason so many Marines get out of the SUCK. If it wasn't for all the BS, I would have stayed in the Corps!

I am not endorsed to say this, I want to make that clear. I found Nick through the raider foundation, I did a college report on them 6months after my separation from the army. I reached out to him for his Agoge challenge, probably 3 or so months after that. I went through a divorce. Became a single father of two because of it, college student, battling the loss of purpose following my ETS after 7 years. I had injuries from airborne status, and gained a fuck tone of weight. These dudes built a community that was fun to be apart of and I eneded up dropping 60lbs in 3 months and have kept the weight off since. I'm still in their myzone group. It's a little expensive, but if you are struggling as a Vet do not hesitate to reach out to those guys to help you build a community and find purpose again. I did this almost three years ago ND I still shout them out any time I find an opportunity.

Dude looks like the Punisher

You should ask Ayer how he is related to general Patton. Fury was a damn good movie

10:02 -10:09 😆 Good clip tho; props to Jon and the team 👍

We need Jake Zweig on the podcast!

What do you think about a short series of walking dead showing how you reacted to the zombies and taking ricks family to safety up until rick woke up

🇺🇸🦅Respect.

Jon looking extra hot in this one ☝️ 🔥

Administrative position = pog

Epic.

I was only blue water Navy, but he is so right. I was really bugging my last 2 years about all the stupid stuff the upper chain would pull now that I actually knew what I was doing. It wears on you...

This guy is exactly the problem with "Team guys." So glad he's out. The truth is none of us are irreplaceable in this game.

7:30 Beard topic. I know a combat Vet (I’m pretty sure he was an elite dude, like a Ranger or Recon dude) who worked at a group home when I was in one. He told me about the beards, he said they were trying to talk to an interpreter or someone who knew the area, something like that. He had/has a huge beard and he told me he served with a couple Native American guys whom can’t grow any facial hair, barely. They were all invited to go inside but the Native guys had to stay out and keep watch. I’m also Native so I knew exactly what he was talking about with the facial hair lmao but this was in Iraq or Afghanistan.

What he is talking about is the number one problem in the military as well as politics. Giving college kids authority.

11 minute master class in leadership. Military cuts through all the bs because they have to.

"Just do 8 more years" lmao I think a lot of us heard this mid-career. I got out anyways and took a gov civi GS job and it was still 100% of the same bullshit but 4x the pay so it's a tradeoff

The slog of the USA is it's dysfunctional administrative processes in every agency and branch. It simply can't be helped that every Republic eventually outgrows its usefulness, nimbleness and functionality. It happened to ancient Rome and it'll happen here. I did 12 years working next to these guys in Kuwait, Somalia, Iraq and Afghanistan THEN did another 10 years at Homeland. It's a recurring theme that the larger a government grows, the more politicians distance themselves from their decisions with administrative peons who are not only ignorant,..but dangerously ignorant. I left government work for a lot of the same reasons as Nick. The constant incompetence in leadership (bordering on criminal negligence) eventually found me incapable of honoring my oath and angry all the time. How much is your honor, integrity and self worth? A paycheck to do as the latest politician does,..look the other way? We're not jaded, we just refuse to eat the yellow snow anymore.

Yo Shane

That's funny. I always equated doing time in the Marines to standing on my head.

This dude should star in a show about MARSOC

When I got out, I often thought about going back, regardless about how I was treated or what I put up with. The most impactful thing I heard from a fellow marine after I left was "I miss the clowns but hate the circus" the politics and infighting and the swinging dick contest of the higher ups is why I didn't reenlist. I do miss my boys though

first 2 min.... i got that mind set in 4 years