Instead of pedantry over 'the Arrangement' why not simple enjoy, this film of such a preeminent artist captured here as early as 1967. For my part many thanks for posting this wonderful video.
The original version with Joni and her guitar is the best ever. In the ''Song to a Seagull' album version you can almost smell the salt air and the waves. The beauty of solitude with nature. How these others crowded in is tolerable but not pure Joni. She captured the true feel the first time. This version is like enjoying the solitude of the beach and finding others crowding in on your peace. Just an opinion.
I love her perfect album version, with just her and a bass. It's interesting to hear something different though. And this was broadcast 3 months before her album was released.
Just discovered this. Wow. The year I graduated high school. The year I discovered this goddess. Kept wanting to hear the backup shut up and let her shine alone as on the album. Beautiful.
I remember seeing her retune her guitar on stage. She had two or three guitars. She would retune very quickly. I always wondered how she could do this without a piano. Always impeccably in tune. Perfect pitch.
Amazing song, didn't realise it was performed as early as this. Arrangement is perhaps not the best, but a good example of how musicians just did not know how to approach Joni's music. No wonder she turned to jazz!
Having these "accompanists" who are playing miles ahead of the beat is a damn tragedy. Joni needs no accompaniment. One of my favorite of her songs. It's a shame that someone thought other musicians would be a "good idea".
David Crosby said the one thing he did right, producing her first album, was keeping everybody else away from her, letting her present the songs the way she wanted to.
Joni's performance of The Dawntreader is so magical here. And that accompainment is ace! Although improbable, it even seems like a string arrangement done by the great late Clare Fischer, bless his soul!
Wow, this is mighty sophisticated for a 'folk singer' on a CBC entertainment spot. Must've surprised a lot of ears, at the time. Of course, everyone who saw her in the early days was transfixed by her looks & her style. All that intelligent, self-sufficient talent - music _and_ poetry - wasn't something folks associated with beautiful women, in those days. I'm glad Joni more than pulled her weight, in the rearranging of gender expectations of a generation.
@@robwad1 I recall reading Graham Nash writing that when they were together they would fight over who got time on the one piano because wile he was writing 1 song she wrote 5.
According to David Crosby, “THE DAWNTREADER” & “THAT SONG ABOUT THE MIDWAY” reference the beginning and end, respectively, of their brief romance. After leaving the Byrds and before forming Crosby, Stills & Nash, David Crosby traveled to Miami with the intention of embarking on a sailing adventure. Instead, he encountered Mitchell performing in a Coconut Grove club and was smitten. He introduced her to the Los Angeles music scene and is listed as producer on her first album. The 20 Best Joni Mitchell Songs Written About Her Famous Friends and Ex-Lovers *AUGUST 9, 2019*Jim Farber
I love watching this performance, as she is mesmerizing. However, I can't help but be distracted by the orchestrated backup. They are guessing at the chord structure, and missing its complexities. They are playing notes that sound more like what "normal" transitions and chord structures "should" have, and it creates a divergence from the composition as I remember it in recordings, which was much more interesting musically. Nonetheless, I'm glad we have this! She was so beautiful, so much a master of her art, so young!
Yeah whether it was or not it sounds like they were trying to play along. Like that Van Morrison album. Another revelation to someone not familiar with much of her work. I really like this early stuff such strange sounding chords. Never so keen on her falsetto so both sides now is a bit much these days
I am in agreement with your analysis here. It's pleasant to listen to, great to watch, but doesn't satisfy my ears that were SO beguiled and haunted by the original rendition's guitar work. One of her most transporting songs imho.
They say that it is Art when you gain some new meaning, some insight, some inspiration, each time you revisit the thing created. I feel that about each and every one of Joni Mitchell's creations - for they are more than just songs, but sung poetry! We are blessed to revisit!
I wanted to really dig this arrangement as I love this song. I think it was almost there, but it felt sometimes like her melody/chord changes were somewhat unexpected the backing track, and had to get their bearings again to keep up. The strange thing about it, is the backing track was added later, and was not present during the actual performance. We have no one today that remotely holds a candle to Joni Mitchell. The majick of popular music gave up its last gasp of breath in the 90s and now we trudge in sonic darkness.
I take back what I said about the orchestral arrangement. It's actually quite masterful, and as the musicians gain confidence towards the end of the second verse, it becomes almost transcendental.
Really terrible orchestral arrangement, entirety changing the dark beauty of the original. Glad to see Joni, but wish we could lose the elevator Muzak tone.
I found this arrangement to be an unexpected totally wonderful pleasant surprise. Sorry that Joni didn't get final approval but for me the strings and percussion give it a perspective that would otherwise not have ever been approached. I love it. Gives a kind of Led Zeppelin Kashmir type feel to it.
Joni was right when she said that her music is so complex, it's hard for the average musician to collaborate with her. She had to find a fleet of the best players in the business to tour with her.
David Crosby composes beautiful love songs. Croz- this beautiful love song was written for you. 🎶He aches and he learns to live~ on a promise to be free~ i believe him when he tells of loving me~ ...he said and come to me~ run down till the rain delights you~ like a promise to be free dolphins playing in the sea all his seadreams come to me seabird~ i will come and sit by you while he lies sleeping~ a dream that you love someone🎶
🙇🏼David Crosby IS🎶a child of God 👼 🎶 His journey and angelic voice are AMAZING👼 God’s grace💜is AMAZING. God Bless🌹@thedavidcrosby + everyone. 🕊 Lord, Pour out Your Spirit upon artists, craftsmen, and musicians: may their work bring variety, joy, and inspiration to our lives. God Bless🌹 David Crosby + to all.
I second the comment that the arranger did not understand the harmonic structure she made around the song that gives it a hypnotic, chant feel. I am glad to see her perform it live. This is my favorite song. Not just of hers, no qualification at all. My favorite song of all time. Want to know what HER favorite song is, BTW? Will you still love me Tomorrow by Goffin/King, if it hasn't changed. Almost all of her songs are in alternate tunings due to some degree to an impairment of her left hand from Polio. The tunings make playing easier. Her only major song in standard tuning I know of is Urge for Going.
She is in great form, and this is an amazing song. Sadly this arrangement is tone deaf to the delicate chord changes and Joni's voice. Congas are nice but the rest takes away so much. Listen to this version and the one with the orchestra arrangement on Travelogue and you see how this version hampers the melody.
@ Richard Smith- Yup, O.K., your're crazy. They're crawling all around behind her trying to catch up - musically- and they stink !!, They don't get it!! Which, to me, means they haven't practiced!
The accompaniment gives this timeless song an unfortunate 60's TV feel, and the tempo sounds a little rushed, but her timing is impeccable even this early in her career. "And the dream of a baby" always gets me in this song. Love the mary janes and white tights, and the closeups of her amazing right hand. How did she create those patterns? Fortunately she recorded this one again in 2002, and that arrangement is superb.
Adore her. (Edit added one year of my original comment: I am not a fan of instruments used on this version of an otherwise great classic song from Joni Mitchell.)
I think that arrangement was added afterward. I think I remember the story of this and Joni was upset that it was added on in post-production that way. It makes sense that it couldn't have been going on during her performance. It sounds totally our of sync with her performance. Can't at all see that she would have let them do that in real time.
On first listen, I kind of thought this was train wreck. I imagined some 60s TV producer saying, "Joni baby, we're gonna punch it up a little, give it some pizazz"! But on second listen, I heard some good things in there, the beat needs to be lowered a little and the flute not so ever-present, but it is an interesting take on an old favorite of mine. When the musicians are on pace with Joni, it actually sounds pretty good.
The orchestrations sound Egyptian. Robert Plant and Jimmy Page did a tour / album in 1994 with an Egyptian orchestra that had very similar sounding arrangements.
a slightly flatter key than normal, and what a difference that makes...(not that I know anything about music....it just sounds different, and I love it.)
This is the only live film of Joni performing this extraordinary song that I know of. Personally I prefer the recorded version without the orchestration (David Crosby who produced her first album once said the only good thing he did was to keep other people off the tracks). But it is quite fascinating to see how she is playing it. The fingerings seem to be consistent with the available tabs (apart from a couple of variations), and her tuning is DGDDAD. She appears to be playing with a medium gauge Gibson thumb pick.
First time I'm seeing this. I agree David Crosby must have been referring to this backing track we hear in this. I love the Eastern-like intonation going on near to the end in this backing track considering it was 1967 when Sgt Pepper was blowing us away with "Within You and Without You". And here she comes about to challenge the likes of Lennon & McCartney for most talented song writer/performer of all time.
I love these chords: the only drawback is that I'm piano centric, & may just be unable to do this kind of thing justice. Songs that use 4ths, sustaining chords: Strange Boy, 4ths. Song for Sharon: based on her beautiful sustain chords. An artist needs to select what works, Joni is impossible to replicate for some. I've seen people cover Steve Winwood's 'Can't find my way back home'. Same diff.
interesting orchestration. I'm used to the version of just herself as the whole "Song for a Seagull" was. David Crosby didn't want anyone to ruin her purity.
It reminds of when Tom Wilson produced Nico's first album 'Chelsea Girl' and added that annoying flute and strings to it. No wonder Joni never let antone produce her records.
Hat's off to Joni Mitchell. She's the genuine article. There's no one else quite like her. So truly gifted, I'm grateful to have lived in her times, to have known and enjoyed her great talant.
This is one of my favorite Joni songs. The supporting instruments and arrangement, though, are majorly detracting from it. Whoever wrote the arrangements did not understand the chords, modulations, and harmonic structure of the song. The bongos are also annoying as hell. The thing about Joni’s music is that, while it might sound simple to the average listener, it’s actually very sophisticated and harmonically complex, so very few people, even with arranging and composing backgrounds, can contribute without souring it.
Excellent post; agreed. Very strange that actual chords should have been altered and I wonder why/how she went along with that. (One example: compare 3:50 "gray sea" and "crazy" to the original.) The good thing is being able to see this vid thanks to the intertubes. Pre-web, I learned all my Joni covers by ear from records and one concert at which I was able to figure out her dulcimer tuning and playing.
as good as some of her later stuff is,to me it s this era of her music,that like with so many artists, their early work is their best. I got into her at this time,and her purest inspirational poetic songs,like this, are there. the orchestation has a kind of middle eastern feel to it,and is a good variation
Obviously whoever wrote this string arrangement had little idea of what the actual chords were to this song. This is kind of a cool version except for when the strings are playing wrong goddamn chords!!!!
