This clip is taken from the Joe Rogan Experience podcast #877 with Jordan Peterson ( • Joe Rogan Experience #... ), also available for download via iTunes & Stitcher (bit.ly/2fEMRNn). podcasts.joerog...
"I was teaching in the US at that point." "Which university?" "I taught at Harvard." Pretty rare that people don't lead with "I taught at Harvard." Seems like a pretty humble dude.
+DeleriousZ I think he puts a lot of effort into being honest about everything so he comes across as being very "clear". There's no attitude or hidden signalling going on, he just says, "I taught at Harvard" and immediately stops thinking about that.
Worst advice I got in my life was from a high school guidance councillor - he told me I was going to University. He didn't particularly care about whether I wanted to go or not, I was "intelligent" and that meant University. It meant going to become an Electrical Engineer, not an Electrician. It meant going to become a Geologist or Architect, not a Stone Mason or Carpenter or Plumber. The Trades were for the "Dumb" kids (the kids taking the "General" level courses, compared to the kids like me who were taking all "Advanced" level courses in high school). It didn't matter that I loved working with my hands. It didn't matter that I liked to be out doors and to build stuff. That was for the Trades, and the Trades were for the people who weren't smart enough to get into University, or to take "Advanced" level courses. I was "smart". I was "intelligent". I was going to University - it was just a matter of which one and what subject. If I could go back 25 years and give myself one piece of advice, I'd drag my 17yr old self out to a "Trades College" and say "Go here. Take Carpentry. Take Plumbing. Take Electrical Studies. Take Heritage Masonry. Take Welding. (Wait, no, not welding, sorry) Take ANY of those courses for 2 years. Get a damn good job. Take a few years to think about what it is you really want to do for the rest of your life. Save up $20,000 - it won't be hard when you're working in the trades, unmarried, no kids and pretty much no student debt. Then when you've got an idea of what you want to do with your life, then - and ONLY THEN - go to a University to get a degree in what you want. For Dawkins sake DO NOT GO TO UNIVERSITY BECAUSE YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO GO BECAUSE YOU'RE "SMART" - you're not smart. You're not intelligent. You're a 17yr old who can do really well on some tests and you can learn things pretty fast compared to your peer group. You're actually a moron who knows nothing. Grow up before you go to University - and if that means you don't go until you're 22, fine. No, Grown Up isn't about age - look at your Guidance Councillor - he's in his 50's and he still hasn't grown up. Otherwise he wouldn't sit you down and lead with "What University do you want to go to?" instead of "What do you want to do with your life?""
That advice is very strategic and a very good advice for poor people. If u can't afford college, work for a few years, save money, invest some money and learn a skills u wanna sell to the marketplace. And after u accumulated lota money, that's the perfect time to follow ur passion or major in college
"if you're the sort of person that thinks that if you would've been in control then things would have gone a lot better, then you're exactly the sort of person that should never be in control" JP's wisdom being mind blowing as per usual :)
It's totally fallacious. Multiple types of people can think they would have done a better job. It's not like there are just two alternatives - western style or marxist style.
@@margaret6839 I can't remember the last time or anytime in my 57 yrs. on this planet I've ever heard anyone say "quick call a Harvard professor " That goes for a" Woman's studies Professor "or any SJW radical professor . Truth is the left fuck themselves in academia , Participation in the marxist education indoctrination is going to be starved out by society and the "Harvard's and Stanford's and other SJW universities" will die and so will the Ideology that consumed them . I have been found out and recently Harvard professors with their communist Chinese spy's have been indicted for crimes . the SJW professors and now even Democrat Governors caught up colluding with the communist Chinese government for cash and prizes . Color me shocked that the Marxist professors and the Marxist Democrats are in cahoots with the communist to destroy America .
I remember being an 18 year old kid going to community college enrolled in social science (basically, because I didn't know what to do with my life)… I had an Anthropology or Human Civilization class and the female teacher would bombard us with all kinds of documentaries stating that early human civilization was matriarchal with female goddesses being all important only to be overthrown by men / patriarchy at later stages. I remember believing this and being like 'Whoa', I didn't know that... I learned something interesting. Never would've it dawned on me that a teacher in an institution of higher learning would use the classroom as pulpit to push her own ideology. Peterson is totally right that students are getting social engineering theories and ideology, NOT FACTS and it's disgusting.
I think the most appropriate term for early society was that it was egalitarian, not matriarchal. The recovered artifacts show an appreciation towards the female sex, suggesting that women were “valued”, but I don’t think that’s evidence for a matriarchy... at least from what I remember from my World History Class. Women and men were equal. I think that’s a pretty cool thing to strive for.
@@savannahanderson8758 Women were valued only for their fertility not much else. Sounds like a feminist hell to me. All that ugly hetero coupling an all.
The worshiped female gods alright and then they went over to the neighbouring village, killed all of the men and abducted the wonen, just like the later "patriarchal" Israelites.
Lol the same exact thing happened to me. I went to a philosophy class and I had to watch a music video with women talking about the patriarchy and a music video that compared Republicans to nazis. I went to work the next day and ask people if this is normal and they were like ya that's common at colleges lol 🙃
I know 3 women who took women's studies. The first left her husband and 2 of her 3 children for another woman. She took her daughter, who was calling dad in tears, to come get her after a few days.The second was already a lesbian I met once. She seemed a little strange. The third was a woman who believes very much in women's rights. She thinks about herself as a feminist. Womens safety has always been one of her main concerns. Rape, domestic violence, etc. She was just as much against domestic violence against men. She believes a woman should have the choice to work or be a stay at home mother without judgement either way. She was also big in pushing women's sports. Very much about fairness. She took 3 classes and quit. She said she felt extremely uncomfortable in that class. This is a woman who spent an entire summer as a pretty young thing working in an all male environment. Yet, in a class full of women she felt uncomfortable and did not feel free to express any opinions. They scared her. The class also made her feel scared for her father and brothers. She basically said they were all crazy extremist nut cases. I decide not to take women's studies.
Ya, I’ve played in girl bands my whole life. We played this “feminist” woman’s show, this one time. Those bitches were crazy!! I was genuinely terrified! & I was born & raised in an inner city! Felt way safer in the inner city 😆😆😆
It's pretty much a gang of Neanderthals. I feel sorry for the sane ones. Women studies is a waste of time. You don't need to get a degree in social issues to be an expert on social issues. In fact most social issues classes are nothing more than indoctrination camps. If you want to change the world, become a scientist. There aren't enough people innovating, especially girls.
Gawd that brings back memories. I innocently took a Gender Studies class once my senior year, thinking that it would be a class exploring the biological differences between men and women. I know, I know, I was pretty oblivious back in my university days. I didn't know any better. But I took the class and ended up more confused than I'd ever been in my life. My professor was a night owl and she seemed to have a vendetta against society being structured around daytime hours. We were given a paper with photos of various men dressed in various attire along with 1 photo of a woman. We were then told to rank each of these ppl, based on appearance alone, on how well we thought they could protect us from a physical threat. Everyone in the class aside from me ranked the woman either first or somewhere in the middle. I ranked her last. The professor asked me why and I replied with my usual honesty, "Because she's a woman." The entire class went into an uproar and I got yelled at by 2 women before the professor managed to get the class under control. I somewhat LESS accidentally provoked another uproar that week, just to test the waters, and the professor pulled me aside to ask if I wanted to transfer out of her class. I didn't bc, oddly enough for someone like me who tries to avoid conflict whenever possible, I had gotten a taste for blood and wanted to keep rattling the bars as I was fascinated by the response; it provided an odd sort of high that someone quiet and nonconfrontational like myself had never experienced. Unfortunately, my final paper-- though well-researched and well-written-- was not of the right opinion and my professor knocked my grade down so much that I wouldn't have been able to graduate that year. So I took my paper to the Dean and appealed to him. I graduated on time. Many years later, I revisited my university and am grateful I got out when I did. It's worse now than it was when I was a student.
So the first one girl had marital issues, and the second girl was just a little weird and a lesbian (not sure why her sexuality is relevant). Not sure how any of that is related to women studies. Just sounds like the usual stuff that people go through. Divorce, exploring one's sexuality, etc,. The third woman is experiencing what typically happens in any environment in which a certain type of political philosophy is dominant. You don't want to speak out, because you're the oddball in the room. Personally, I've always played devil's advocate in any classroom discussions that i've had because I hate circle jerks, but I know a lot of people don't want to speak if they feel like they'll be alone in their opinion. It's human nature. Not sure why she was afraid for her father and brothers. Like what does she think the feminists in that classroom are going to do them? Kidnap them and sacrifice them? Become politicians and take away their human rights? I'm really getting sick of the phrase "This X political thing scares/terrifies me." Like people are always talking about how scared they are of shit. It's obnoxious, most of the things they're scared about aren't even remotely threatening to their daily lives or the daily lives of anybody they know.
Peterson's critiquing of Women's Studies was unsettling enough, particularly his statement that universities these days are just institutions that fill students' heads full of nonsense about "tearing down the Patriarchy", generally hating on men and working towards some Communist Utopia. Your comments three examples of actual cases of women who have studied this utter insanity at university, add even more weight, if it were even needed, to Dr Peterson's pretty scary assessment of the state of higher education now. Interesting, and offering SOME hope, the third example, of the woman who clearly saw the lunacy being taught, for what it was.
@@cmojo68 Well, the good news is, they're not having kids. Because having kids is bad for the planet. So as long as parents manage to impart some sense into their children, the generation after the current one ought to get better.
In the absence of a God to blame the burden existence for, they elevate White Male to the status of God, and then blame that group for every evil. So basically they're figuring out that life is hard. I guess they never got the memo.
He's honest! The irony is people's taxes and tuition are paying for the sabotage of social balance and gender segregation. That's funny! Sounds like Stand Up Comedy.
@@Gallowglass7 Well jordan especially, he seems to be the only one to make sence of his field. We are in some serious trouble though with this diversity equity inclusion/woke
When I was in high school I had to sit down one on one with my guidance counselor and discuss my after high school plans, all four years I told her I wanted to join the military, every year she would try to convince me to go to college, finally my senior year in my last meeting with her she told me that not only should I go to college but that I NEEDED to. I told her that I didn't know of anything else besides the military that I would be interested in doing, she responded that I should just do general studies, I asked her what jobs that would help me get, she told me it was just a good stepping stone. I asked her where the money for going to college would come from, she told me to get a loan, I brought up the fact that if I joined the military it would at least give me a few more years to figure out what I wanted to do and then they would pay for my college, she then looked me in the eye and said "Only people who aren't smart join the military, I'd be very disappointed if any of my kids ever even spoke to a recruiter." I told her my dad who retired after 20 years of naval service would have a different opinion and I walked out of her office she yelled down the hall after me that the meeting wasn't over and I needed to sit back down but I kept walking. 6 years later I am an E-5, have been to 3 different countries, been apart of things I will never forget, finished my associates degree without ever sitting in a college classroom or enrolling in an online class, I did it all without using any of my college benefits or taking out a loan and I did it on my own time.
you did the smart thing, wanted to join the military, in 74 few ppl. did that, my younger brothers went in, did very well, got out and they are as smart as any college grad I know
I don't believe he is paranoid. The rate at which the left is radicalizing should be alarming, and all these kids coming out of these Universities are going to have children and bestow their Marxist values upon them. The alt-right is dangerous too, but much smaller in scope, most of the people who voted for Trump were moderates anyway. Plus, the mainstream media and entertainment culture is clearly allied with the far left. Can only hope Trump's brashness can alter the course of American culture to dump the PC insanity and adopt more honesty.
I agree with you Deni. I think this guy is being hyperbolic and that's dangerous. He's calling women's studies marxism, and you can basically make all the same arguments about any ideology. This isn't a great discussion at all.
No he is not. The Soviet Union was a far right society . Marxism if you read actual Marx is the factory to the workers, maximum separation of power and so on. Democracy is more marxist than the Soviet Union. This guy is delusional. He is fighting ghosts.
I had a major falling out with my sister over Jordan. She’s a pHD sociology professor at Berkeley. She’s the crown jewel of our family and I dared question her beliefs.
You didn't do anything wrong by questioning her beliefs. Stand up for yourself and hold your ground. Love her obviously but stand behind your beliefs if you really honestly believe they are correct. My pov it's obvious Jordan is a wonderful man and is helping millions of people. But what's easy for us to see is hard for others. They may have had their vision altered by false ideas. Best you can do is just live really well and love your sister. Love and truth has a beautiful eay of always winning in the end. God bless
That must suck. The only thing you can really do is go out a flesh out your ideological standings to root out how moronic she is, because thats what you have to do with these people.
As a trade school instructor, I'm really happy that JP mentioned that. Parents, please read my advice, we won't brain wash your kids. Send them to us if you want them to be successful and gain promising employment with great potential for advancement.
How many people need a good plumber or electrician? How many people need someone to tell them that they are racist, sexist, & etc? Go to school to get a job that will pay. Or just pay and pay for your so called education.
No no. You pay so the University staff can tell you who to really blame for your failure to find an nonexistent job with a shit degree that the school told you was so important.
My father made very good money as an electrician. He learned the trade from his uncle, and thanks to the electricians' local he was always needed. Among other locations, he did installations in the World Trade Center and in the Empire State Building and Madison Square Garden. He applied those skills in countless home repairs (and studied carpentry and upholstering). Many people in blue-collar fields are educated and practical; it is not 'settling for less' to learn a trade that can be applied for a lifetime. He has always owned his own home, provided for his family, and had disposable income for the travel he loved and for studying horticulture and photography. If my parents had not divorced and my mom moved to LA, I believe my dad would have been a much bigger influence on my post high school educational decisions. I wish I had learned a trade early on; as much as I love reading and writing and etymology, I've been a grocery stocker my entire life. I just didn't know what to pursue in college, and my liberal arts degree is a result of racking up credits in a wide variety of studies rather than focusing on one or two. This was back in the early 90's, when the third wave of feminism was just getting rolling but was a fairly visible presence on our Los Angeles campus. In those days I was rather left-wing (though far more interested in psychology than in any women's studies courses), so I didn't mind. Now, being of a similar mindset to the likes of Peterson and Ben Shapiro, I stay away from events and protests that highlight the feminist/cultural Marxist agenda. I'm not afraid of being influenced, but I don't want to be associated with such types. I haven't walked across a college campus in 20 years; the overwhelming leftist mentality would irritate the hell out of me.
I always questioned if Jordan Peterson was over exaggerating the amount of marxist political propaganda of these schools. I had a conversation with a kid who studies sociology, and it showed how right he is. The entire concept of "gender studies", according to this person, is that sex is determined by biology, and gender is determined by social constructs, which are based on a tyrannical system of oppression based on, and I quote "hegemonic class values" (marxist terminology) based on a patriarchal class system of oppression. The fact that the kids cannot even consider biology and science, without politics is actually scary.
It's actually nostalgic to go back and watch this now. I remember first hearing about this Peterson guy around 2015 with the compelled speech stuff and then he popped up on Rogan a few years later and started laying out what a whole generation wanted to express but couldn't explain as clearly, thoroughly and eloquently. I honestly thought the cultural conversation would start to change after this, but alas, they just threw all the "-isms", "-ists" & "-phobes" at him and normal service was resumed. Still, millions of men started waking up thanks to JP
Petetersen just came out of a serious battle with benzos in his depression. He's a beast , uncompromising , truthful, he'll rise again. In fact I am fighting that exact same battle myself right now. Horrible stuff. Many have called him a prophet . I dont know about that, but the world will not be forgetting JOrdan Petersen any time soon. He's so relevant for what we're facing.
Clorox Bleach seeing the profession you've dedicated your life to bending the knee to an echo chamber of spoiled attention seeking zeros must be both heartbreaking and infuriating
I took a women’s studies class and enjoyed it. It was focused on the history of women’s rights and sexism in the 20th century. I looked at it like a history class, the same way I took African American history classes. There was no focus on revolution or protesting. It was just a class.
I dropped out of college for a trade school. I'm sooooo glad to have JP reaffirm my decision. It's been probably the second best decision I've made in my entire life. Right after joining the military.
BeansofHorror Shalashaska Because you’re not serving your people as they make you believe You’re serving a much darker purpose of people behind the scenes with their own personal interests, and large corporations US army is the largest terrorist group in the world, I’m telling you this as somebody that loves the American people, the working class
Mr Peterson should do a talking tour like Milo and Ben, there are a lot of young people right now who would be ready to listen to him, and I'll bet it would be a money spinner too.
somehow I get the impression he's really not interested in collaborating with any ideologue. I think he speaks against PCness from the deep centre, not the right
buildings and food I was suggesting that he do his own tour, in much the same way Milo and Ben have, his message of course would be all his own, but I do believe that he is a fellow traveller down the a similar (if not the same) road, he seems to stand for free speech and is apposed to ideology over facts, I believe with his knowledge he could give a very informative lecture tour.
I went to University but not for what my parents wanted me to go for. They wanted me to be an engineer or architect, the typical “if you don’t get a 6 figure job you didn’t make it in life speech.” Well I chose agriculture and animal sciences. In that degree I learned how to weld, work on and fix farm equipment, grow crops, manage a greenhouse, raise all types of livestock, train horses, driving big equipment and large trucks/trailers, ranch management, wildlife management (raising deer/exotics) list goes on and on. My parents and I didn’t speak much except to check on my grades for years. Now they see the value of my skills in our modern society and envy that I live on a 13,000 acre working ranch with my husband.
Hit the nail right on the head! My mom sent me to trade school and I am now a successful high voltage electrician 13 years after I graduated...so worth it. I cant imagine my life if I chose college...not to say college is bad...it just used to be better. I love being an electrician I've been working for 10 years straight...high demand career.
“Universities do more harm than good” No truer words could have been spoken at this moment in our time. Trade school was the best decision I ever made regarding profession.
Jacob Stewart “Resentment for the burden of being” is only applicable if you subscribe to Peterson’s “baseline of suffering” ideology, which the radfems clearly do not. Any issues they have, any feeling of discomfort is clearly someone else’s doing, not the result of being alive. As it is someone else’s doing, it gives them reason to find and fight the “someone else,” the “patriarchy,” but given the times we live in it comes off as strenuous at best. Given the absolute luxury almost every person born after 1950 lives in people tend to laugh at them but the laughter only emboldens them, it’s either “misogyny” or “internalized oppression.” Either way they can explain it away with their oppression narrative. Contrast this with Peterson’s aforementioned ideology and they have literally no reason to riot, given the fact that 99% of the issues they have (capitalism, “income inequality” etc.) are complete non-issues or outright fabrications and it discredits their dogma. This is what he meant when he said “resentment for the burden of being.” I hope this clears it up.
If I took a fucking plumbing course at Harvard for a single semester, I’d never live that down. I’d tell everyone I’m was Harvard student until the end of time. This guy TAUGHT at Harvard and barely mentioned it. Respectable fude
There’s a Sopranos episode where a Drill instructor at a Military Boys School simplifies this, along the lines of “We’ve provided our kids too many options; no wonder they’re confused.” My parents had a college fund for me from the time I was born. What did I do with that money? I went to a university just because it “seemed ok” knowing absolutely NOTHING about what I wanted to do and to get my parents off my back so I could be away from them and do what I wanted. I went to college for 2 reasons. 1, being that my family never gave me the option to NOT go to college (essentially, but I’m not blaming them for my own issues as an adult) and 2, to get fucked up. I fucked around too much and ended up getting addicted to heroin and dropping out. I failed out a 2nd time because booze, pills and heroin/fentanyl were far more important. My life has been nothing but hardships since I was 17 years old. Im not blaming society or my parents, as my decisions were my own, but im just sharing my experience to others as an extreme case of what can happen when you are completely lost and floundering in life and the “burden of being ” as Jordan has described it becomes an unbearable weight
I wish more interviewers would take notes on how Joe Rogan interacts with his guests. He asks and then.....wait for it.....lets the person finish and express their COMPLETE thought.
I'm on the train with a family right next to me... I open my laptop, and of course right when i open it, "Hello freak bitches"... Why Man, why this intro??
Whenever people try to turn this guy into a meme, and think it's all jokes, even going so far as to say he's a transphobe or a misogynist, insert particular kind of xenophobia you want with no proof, I smile. It reminds me how important some of his messages are. This shit is uncomfortable, hard truths are, and people would rather joke or straight up demonize the man than just take in what he has to teach us.
Actually only a barista for a LIMITED TIME until they realize a GUY started Starbucks. Or until they treat a male customer like crap or give their male boss a patriarchy rant.... then they're back to protesting
I'm currently taking one, and I dedicated a page in the front of my notebook called, "Funny quotes," because the prof believes practicing masculinity means sexual harassment.
Melkor According to JRR Tolkien, any form of power is evil. The Earth is Melkor’s ring and evil in nature. This is so opposite to what peterson belives. How do you reconcialate this?
Who would be proud of that? "And here right next to my 24 participation trophies, is my women's studies degree. I studied to be a woman and boy do i have a few things to tell you about the patriarchy!" -conversation ends.
I'm a member of the generation pushing this shit, see kids I went to high school with working their jaws about it and I just don't understand where the fuck they get this sense of oppression. I'm just really glad I didn't file into college with the rest of them.
I'm taking university classes through a community college. Haven't run into SJW rhetoric here yet, but the university has sent me emails regarding a "toxic masculinity workshop". I'll probably be moving to take classes at the actual university campus next year, can't exactly say I'm excited.
Vash the Elicit You know, I still think about applying for college courses. But with all of this SJW bullshit going on, I'm gonna stay away from that for a while.
Young people want to be a part of something. It's always been that way. Each generation will damn sure drum up some drama whether it's there naturally (Vietnam War for example) or not (arguably the current situation). Personally I think being kinder to people who are "different" in one way or another is a nice thing to work towards. The problems begin when legislation gets involved. Young people are often slow to recognize why this is dangerous. If something is "good" then what could be wrong with making it the law? Serious students of history know exactly how it can go wrong, and it's important to share that knowledge with these young people. But a creepy old grump shouting about Stalin is not the proper mechanism of delivery.
mshesh16 Well the issue you just stated is hitting almost everyone. It's not just whites,blacks,hispanics, etc etc it is everyone. Technology has made wages so low and we're all competing for the little amount of crumbs under the table and since we have no visual elite to point to we point at each other instead. This really comes down to the fact that the amount of separation between those with resource security and those without has grown to astronomical levels throughout the world and anger is rising as more and more people are living without enough income to afford their authentic needs that would allow them to be a fully and efficiently functioning piece of society. Humanity is only as strong as it's weakest links (weakest link is a subjective thing in this case)... We still have yet to learn this lesson.
I ran into a college friend on campus during my college years after not seeing her for a year. This girl was very nice but a bit lost and hadn't declared a major when I knew her. When I saw her she announced that she was now a radical feminist and a woman's studies major. We both laughed.
@mikael englund Over 40% of the compulsory sections of a maths degree at Sydney uni is was "SJW related" and if you don't tow the line you get kicked out, I didn't want to play and left before the they kicked me out and walked into a $250,000 PA job based on my abilities and went back and rubbed their noses in it.
As a university student I will say my university hasn't done any women's studies/protests/far-left stuff, it's just a university where we go to get our degrees
I've been sharing these with a retired judge. Wow, a practicing lawyer who was forced out as a workman comp judge for siding with the workers to much. He just thanked me for sharing JBP with him. I'm sure he will go to Jordan's page now after I told him about JBP's struggles. One open mind at a time.
I think that it might have been 4D chess at a subconscious level on Joe's part, just look at how his endorsement turned out for these woke fanatics, exposed them even more for the mindless swarm of misery and loathing that they are :V
I truly think Bernie and Jordan would get along well. Remember Jordan is Canadian, where a lot of things are like what Bernie wanted for usa. As a canadian, I enjoy and respect Jordan Peterson and I would have totally voted for Bernie if I had the power.
"Contempt for existence itself" I ask in an honest manner, what can we do to create a society where people don't have contempt for existence? I truly want people to enjoy life no matter who they are. Being alive is wonderful in itself in spite of the suffering.
Wow! I like that Jordan has taken some firm stances on particular issues here. It's quite refreshing to see this type of passion on these controversial topics.
Hell, I remember in High School that some teachers went on about feminism and how women are more valuable than men. Way to make younger men feel absolutely useless and have a unnecessary urge to compete with women, when we are suppose to compliment each other since we vary and are similar equally.
So prescient. It all played out exactly as he predicted. Amazing. This guy needs to get more credit for his predictions, whether you agree with his politics or not.
Regarding the Patriarchy, Wikipedia said "Feminist theory typically characterizes patriarchy as a social construction, which can be overcome by revealing and critically analyzing its manifestations" whereas Jordan Peterson said the women's studies activists want to replace the patriarchy with an ideological utopia, referring to the Soviet Union I presume.
Jordan Peterson actually had a really hard life. He’s cold, brutal and calculating but if you get to the end of his book when he starts talking about his daughter, all the pieces start to fit.
Mr. Peterson, My name is Carlton Smith. I will keep it short. In my opinion you are correct about the Universities doing more harm than good. And I too am terrified for my children and the world. Please keep speaking to our young people and giving them the wisdom attained by experience and age. Throw in a discipline for this old soldier. Enjoy watching and learning from you. I try to impart a little wisdom that I learn from yourself and others. I will end here. Sincerely, SGT Carlton Smith US ARMY, RET
I, too, hope he gets better and finds the strength to get back in the game. Dr. Peterson still has an immense amount of potential to further change the world.
@5:15 "All of the things you do will eventually fail." That was quite profound to me. You can take it so many ways, you can be defeated by it or uplifted by it. I take it to mean that you should have no fear of failing, because everything you do will eventually fail...so go do stuff that you love, that scares you, go do it because eventually...it won't matter. Win or lose, it's all gone anyway...so don't be afraid to lose now while you still can. Besides, we don't always learn from success, but we always learn something from failing.
Anything you can learn at a university in social sciences, humanities or history can be learned over the internet and at the library for free except you don't end up with the piece of paper participation trophy or the student loan debt. That can't be said for engineering or science.
Actually it is just as easy to learn engineering and science as it is to learn psychology and philosophy online. Which is to say it isn't that easy to actually LEARN that information. You can look at it, read it, but to truly understand it typically requires a teacher. Also that "piece of paper" goes on a resume whereas your library "studying" hardly can.
@@kindairish2562 Most science and engineering classes have a lab component so it is hands on, where as social science classes are more about passing on ideas or facts. So I was not addressing difficulty, rather differences in teaching methods.
@@stevelawrence5123 But passing on "ideas or facts" is just as much a "hands on" endeavor as doing an engineering lab. Insofar as we are not dogmatically brought down to a belief that the only thing meaningful about "hand on" learning is the fact it is physical. What makes "hands on" learning valuable is that it provides experience doing a given thing, not the fact it is psychical. This is what I don't think people appreciate about the social sciences and especially philosophy. You do not get good at philosophy by reading, you get good a philosophy by discussing and critique and formulating arguments. In other words you get good at philosophy by doing philosophy. It is just as hands on as any trade school (unless you have shitty teachers). And having a doctor of philosophy there to critique your thought process makes you a much more competent thinker than just reading philosophical works ever could. Learning a trade is learning a trade, whether it is philosophy or engineering. It is damn hard to do without guidance.
@@kindairish2562 Hi Irish, I was writing specifically about developing lab techniques such as grinding down a thin section for a petrographic microscope or preparing and running a sample for an x-ray diffractometer. Or properly using a hood or a pipet in a virology lab. In that way Philosophy is less of a trade than science or engineering. Yes, having a PhD to guide your studies would be great but I don't know that Philosophers have to do the same kinds of physical things that science and engineering require like going out onto an oil rig, or having to learn to operate various types of equipment to extract and interpret data. You are certainly right that you get good a philosophy education by discussing and critiquing and formulating arguments but that too can be done online. Also, I was not addressing philosophy as a profession, rather as general knowledge.
I dropped out of community college after my second year because they not only wanted to force me to take “studies” courses to graduate, but I also had to pay for it. I’d rather go do the CompTia A+ test, get into the IT field for $400, and teach myself to code more than I do now than pay $120k for them to not even teach me how to do do something useful. I’m glad i taught myself some coding, but I know people who’ve graduated with comp sci degrees and can’t build a website let alone find a job. My first year Python course professor had us make pixel art with outdated software that looked like it was from the 90s, I ended that course having learned nothing new nor anything beneficial, worst money I’ve spent on anything, all for some piece of paper. I thought high school was to show a general understanding of things with a balanced curriculum and college was specialized, yet it just felt like going to a boarding high school with some extra freedoms.
Hi Bill...I'm a little late to the party, but I'm sure Hans K will be relieved! ;) Since you asked, I think it's a bit of a broad stroke to paint ALL of anything as, well...anything. All men aren't rapists and all Women's Studies departments at all universities aren't brainwashing Marxists, etc. That's silly. Things are more nuanced than that. I view it as a pendulum swing. Things used to be very horribly unbalanced with regard to women, various minority groups, etc. (not saying all problems were solved). People studied it and actions were taken. This is positive. We may be seeing an overcorrect in some instances. I can't find the logical argument, however, in throwing out the baby with the bathwater. It hasn't even really been that long that women have had the right to vote. (For perspective, my grandmother was able to tell me about suffragettes and I'm 40). Husbands used to have the power to put their wives in asylums, have doctors perform medical procedures against her will (can you say lobotomy? eek!), and retain custody of children without any court proceedings if she displeased him. I mean, really, some people still don't believe that you can rape your spouse and when I was growing up, domestic violence was still kind of a private "family" issue. When the discussion of male privilege arises, it speaks - in part - of the privilege to not have to know about this stuff for your own well-being and even survival. As a society, it's important to know. Same with all history. I think it's important to focus of progress, not perfection. I don't know that we'll ever be done cooking, but we can certainly keep evolving. For example, a current need is to increase fairness so fathers don't lose their parental rights in divorce (assuming they are fit, safe, etc.), but that doesn't mean we were wrong to progress to the point that men couldn't kick out their wives and then adopt out her children to another family. Yes, that was legal in the early 1900s. Back to the doctor. Peterson's way of speaking about things is a great way to polarize and sell books and get an audience. This guy is speaking to a group of men who feel disempowered because of the status assigned to a college degree, or perhaps feeling less needed because lots of women desire a man, but no longer NEED one in a post-feminist society. I, for one, am very happy that I earn my own living and didn't have to settle for whomever could "afford" me in my early 20s! That's how it was up until very recently. And honestly, I'm equally happy for the imaginary guy I didn't marry because we would have both been miserable! That first thing I mentioned about degrees is why you're seeing so many men post about feeling validated for being skilled laborers. He's speaking to a group that feels disenfranchised (which could understandably lead to victim mentality) by essentially calling another disenfranchised group crybabies (aka victim mentality). It all seems like pretty transparent pandering to me. "You're so smart even though people told you you weren't. It's the college-educated who are the real dummies!" (Dr. Seuss's "The Sneetches" covers this way of earning profits quite nicely.) I truly believe that no one is a dummy, but people really do have different strengths and they should use them and be valued for it! We live in a society and it's not beneficial for everyone to be the same kind of smart. Lisa has been doing my hair for 15 years and I won't let anyone else touch it, but I'll be damned if I'm letting her do my taxes...and Dan isn't allowed to cut my hair! These are positive things in my book. (Gardner's Multiple Intelligences, if you feel like reading more about that stuff.) My question is, why can't everyone's difficulties matter and be valid without vilifying one group to validate another? Whenever anyone takes this tack, I question motive. Motives actually. What is the external motive, what is the internal? So, let's give Dr. Peterson some credit here. He's Harvard smart. He's got to know what he's doing. Unless, of course, he doesn't because his logic is too clouded by his own shit. This is important territory. The first time I saw a Jordan Peterson video, I knew zero about him. I thought, "Cool! I work with a diverse population. What does this guy have to say about gender?" The first thing I noticed was shoddy research conclusions. He was literally making very obvious, poor logic conclusions regarding research data (not opinion) and all I could think was, "This guy has to know better. What the hell is his game? More importantly, why is he banking on his audience NOT knowing better." I found it to be really insulting to the audience. He's a man with an agenda that stems from somewhere and that's fine, but I don't like him leaning on his degree while talking about "research" conclusions that would get him reamed at Harvard on research validity alone. If his peers don't like him, it might have more to do with how he speaks as an academic than his politics. I say this as a therapist myself, most therapists get into the game - at least at first - because they've got their own shit. I did. I spent a really long time examining and healing myself. That was a choice, though, not a requirement. Doing one's own healing is not required or supervised unless you're becoming a psychoanalyst and there aren't too many of them anymore. My second impression of Peterson, after the "WTF?" reaction to the research stuff, was "Oh shit! This guy needs to spend some more time on the couch before he gets in the chair". Everyone's got baggage, no shame in that. But, therapists have a serious responsibility to know their own shit and work it out before they start fucking up their clients with their own unresolved issues. Ethics. Ethics are important. Dan Ogilvie at Rutgers built his career around studying psychologists and how their own stuff impacted their theories. It's interesting stuff! For example, Freud pissed off Gordon Allport when he hit a nerve about Allport's childhood and now we have American trait psychology! I would love for him to study Peterson's past and present. In case you're curious about the person behind the opinions... Yeah, I've got 7 letters after my name. I loved going to college and grad school. It was a great fit for my type of intelligence and the career I naturally gravitated toward. It fed my hungry brain and exposed me to professors so brilliant that I'm tearing up just thinking about how lucky I am to have known them. Studying history and psychology (a few classes were crossovers with the Women's Studies dept. and none of them scarred me) helped me understand the context of the world I live in now, the people in it, and the methods for how we study it. Studying philosophy sharpened my ability to find truly logical conclusions, identify sloppy logic, and see multiple sides of an issue. Before I was a therapist, I volunteered for years with the county rape crisis program. I held hands during rape kits and saw a lot of shit during police and court accompaniments for both male and female survivors that was very much not okay. I also was super impressed by one town's police department. Their sensitivity and professionalism was incredible...they also hire social workers to the force. So, yeah, I know a lot about rape and I don't hate men or sex. I actually really like both. But, I really do hate violent crimes and perpetrators of violent crimes and people who get paid to help, but make it worse. I was raised by a brilliant guy who had trouble learning in school, but who can build and fix anything and reads and travels constantly. He was raised in a very poor environment by parents who had an 8th grade education at the most. He's got a great work ethic and is still at it in his 70s. Once I was older, I was attracted to men who can use their tool box better than I can use mine. I came to value men who are good at what they do and are HAPPY in their chosen careers. If I've gotten elitist when it comes to guys, it's not about money or education, it's about lacking curiosity and drive or not taking responsibility for himself and being a whiner. I think healthy relationships come from being the kind of woman who wants a man more than she needs one. I built the kind of life for myself where I can have my career and still stay home with the kids because I work for myself. That was intentional. But it's also privilege on many levels. I am lucky that I was able to do that. I have the resources I need to leave if it were to ever become unsafe. That's a good model for children. Family is important, but you don't put up with mistreatment. I'm also in a position to be a model of a strong, happy mom who is there for her kids, but who isn't dependent upon them for her entire identity. For so long boys could dream of any role and girls were given dolls that peed themselves. My daughter will have limitless options in front of her. The kids will be free to go live their own lives and follow their own dreams, because I will have built a beautiful life and partnership for myself. But, ya know, I don't need a guy like Jordan Peterson to tell me that I'm making the right choices or not, or to tell me how my university ruined me because I have no problem adding she/her under my name in my email signature. Quite frankly, I think he has plenty to focus on when it comes to his own journey. I'll bet all of his appearances, etc. serve as a great distraction to his own inner work, though ;)
@@LaraDubowchik Wow, sincerest and deepest thank you for this detailed response. It's really nice to hear from someone so nuanced amidst content like this, where even podcasts like JRE that are supposedly all about engaging in nuanced discussion, turn into cesspools of tribalism... I find myself fairly lucky that I'm not particularly disenfranchised, though I have great sympathy for those that are, but I get concerned when all I see are comments idolizing a man who, like you say, clearly has some shit to go through before being this beacon for young men everywhere. Again, thanks for the response and I wish you a wonderful week!
@@BILLBLACKshow Hi Bill! You're very welcome! I hope you have a great week, too! Thanks for asking for the - ahem, a - female perspective, btw. There are way more variations within groups than between them. I couldn't possibly speak for all women! I wouldn't have commented if you hadn't. I had no desire to write something thoughtful only to find myself at the bottom of a misogynistic pile on! I appreciate you being open and asking. Respectful discourse is important!
I realized recently after being in three different courses in university, and I still am in the last one, and after having given up on science during high school (which I deeply regret), that everywhere you have classes, you are being manipulated and brainwashed by their own ideals, and most people don't realize this because the word "politics" isn't explicitly implied. The places this doesn't happen are usually in science courses, and even then... We have 70 people in our class, and ALL of my mates have the exact same kind of speech and the exact same arguments when it comes to modern "problems" and when they are asked about something that isn't a mainstream topic, they don't even utter a single word, except when it's related to those exact problems. But when the subject does immediatelly concern them, they have no problem talking about what they have no clue about. And yet everyone so vehemently believes that they're so open minded, which is downright laughable, oh the irony in this world. I just wish people wouldn't be so hypocritical and simply admit that they are manipulating mentalities
It always felt like jordan was overreacting, partly because I didn't realise how much impact these phony departments had on the world. And now if you look at what's happening in US, damn did he hit the nail on the head.
I totally agree with Jordan Peterson on his statement of universities doing more harm than good, I have been studying psychology biology and to a lesser extent neurology and the schools are very ineffective in developing the mind of students
