Donna's commitment to the bit is above and beyond here. Josh is a master of snark and sarcasm but even he fell for this amazing performance. "The owner's manual" was the moment Josh was probably about to flip out before Donna drops "No you idiot, I need a shower." Iconic.
This is one of my favourite scenes. We often see Josh as the "doer"- here he demonstrates the intellectual underpinnings that got him there. The first time I heard this I remember thinking what a privilege it would be to sit through classes at Harvard and just...absorb! Then I found a library and found I could do it on my own :)
American public libraries are truly one of the least-respected resources. If you didn't need a college degree to get the job of your choice, you could get an education for free from a library. we take it for granted unless we've traveled to other countries where access is limited by censorship. (not that libraries in certain states are suffering the burden of censorshp, i know).
@@alertgasper Unfortunately it's not just by censorship but also by neglect and apathy in some cases. I live in India. I remember when, as a child I could go to a public library with an extensive, international children's section. I read Verne, Jack London, the Asterix comics and a bunch of other things which first introduced me to other cultures and sparked my reading habit. When I returned to India two decades later, the country's population, GDP and stature had all grown leaps and bounds, but the libraries had deteriorated. Today, with reading anyway declining among youth, libraries are pretty much gone, with a few exceptions. Really sad.
@@ninadbhave5133Very true. around here at least, a public library's possibilities can depend on the head librarian. i've seen new ones arrive and make a small library bloom.
You're the morons who kept voting in the swamp. You voted for bush and that scumbag obama. We the People had enough of your idiocy so we elected the only person running who could put the brakes in the jackassery of people like you. You did this. Be a man and own up to it.
@@markarmage3776 It was never about policy. He just has joined the cult of trump. Its pretty typical for dictators to form a cult of personality, or people that believe that the dictator was sent by the gods to save the country.
@@JusticeFrogs So you have no argument at all, kid? I was against the person who write the comment, don't assume that people are as stupid as you. Dictator? Cult? All of those words are your delusion to cover up the fact that you useless unemployed morons are deadweight of society and you're having a President that does not support those things. Go back to school, idiot.
Some snippets of the West Wing like this one should be required viewing for every voter everywhere. Intelligence is a good thing. Curiosity is a good thing.
@Dead Meme So that means that it's ok to be stupid? Is it so wrong to expect our elected officials to be the best and the brightest? Or at least know how to use the English language properly?
@@DarrylJHenderson "Is it so wrong to expect our elected officials to be the best and the brightest?" - Not at all. You can only hope and pray our elected officials are the "best and brightest", and do your best to see that happens. But you're a complete moron once you drink the kool-aid and believe, even for a moment, that they actually *are*, especially when the only source of their truth is their own mouths or a media juggernaut. Accountability must be constant, incessant, and it must be absolutely non-partisan.
This is an important scene especially in today's in era where there are so many motivators , influencers and gurus. People make millions by feeding these mcnuggets and guide them wrong direction without understanding the issues.
Scenes like this make me want to cry in despair, given the current sad state of affairs. Here is Josh outraged at the notion of a President who thinks fortune cookie philosophy is eloquent, and now we've got one who doesn't read anything that isn't about himself.
Why don't you assholes have a pity party somewhere else? We the People are trying to fix what you arrogant morons did to this country. Obama is the reason we got Trump. Did you vote for obama? Of course you did. GFY
Really, and where's your source? Something you idiots never paid attention in these TV shows. The guy called the President just did everything his subordinates give him. Watch closely, national security, or speeches, even policy. Briefing? The guy understand briefing which also fits in a fortune cookie and make decisions based on what he grasp from that fortune cookie. So what's wrong with the summary?
@@theolamp5312 The reason we makes charts, idiot, it's because it's more easy to comprehend then writing. You're so smart that you took the hard way? That's what you call an idiot.
How prophetic... Art not only imitates life, but it predicts it. Who knew that a malignant narcissist could create a cult so quickly? Would any rational, reasonable, educated person think it could happen? There are none so blind as those who will not see...
@@timothy9596 The actors that played them are as aware as their characters. I think that's why the show worked so well. They believed in what they're saying with Sorkin's dialog. And these 2 have great chemistry. Their first meeting is a classic scene.
"Reach for it all not just the McNuggets" it was a metaphor but for Trump that was literal too. We all know Ritchie was a stand in for Bush, to show how dumb he was. W. looks like a genius when compared to Trump. My fear has been what comes after Trump is gone. President Marjorie Taylor Greene?
LOL. Reach for *all* of Immanuel Kant? You really want someone reaching for *all* of Plato's Republic? Like, the upper class having women in community who give them sex whenever they want it? Sounds kinda misogynist, dude, and not really what Josh's party would have been about. But then, you'd actually have to read these books to understand why you may not want to reach for *all* of it.
A couple issues with this. First, "it's good to be trapped in a corner, that's when you act" has nothing to do with the Kant quote. The quote at best sounds like some bastardization of BF Skinner's behaviorism. Kant's famous line is referring to the supreme submission of the will to duty; that a moral action comes not from any ulterior motive, but solely from one's duty to act, and by extension, to act only in accordance with that maxim whereby you can, at the same time, will that it become a universal law. Second, no first year phil student would be reading the CPrR. The foundations of the Second Critique require you to understand the First Critique, or at least reading the Groundwork on the Metaphysics of Morals. Kant is way too advanced for a first year phil student. Third, The CPrR is not M&E. The CPR is. The CPrR is moral philosophy. I'm glad that they venerated philosophy in this scene as it is often lampooned as useless or trite, of which it is neither; but I wish they had put a little more effort to get it right with Kant.
I'm not a philosophy major but I was certainly impressed that Josh's first-years were reading Kant 🤣 The "public treatment" of philosophy still leaks through in this act that is meant to somewhat give praise to it, and it vexes me to see. Reading philosophy text is not like reading Twilight or Harry Potter; just understanding the words is nowhere near enough.
Not sure why I feel the need to reply to this but....I without question remember reading Kant in my intro to philosophy class. Our textbook was something called 50 readings plus, and one of said readings was a 15 page section of Critique of Pure Reason. I knew for a fact I recognized that name, and I’ve only every taken one philosophy class in my life and I just so happened to still have my textbook and sure enough, there in the index was Immanuel Kant page 198 hahahaha. Again, not sure why I felt the need to do that, but there’s proof that freshman philosophy students definitely read Kant.
If you dwell on the detail, it will drive you nuts. There are episodes where i skipped entire scenes bc of the crap way Africa is represented in the show... the AIDS vaccine storyline is one. But the rest of the episode (Ainsley coming in for her second interview) was still great, so i watched those bits. It's a tv show. 🤷🏾♀️
@@moimeself1088 yeah there’s a lot of stupid stuff like that throughout the series that you really take seriously. One that comes to mind for me is the episode with China and the whole time there is this chess metaphor going on with the different games Bartlett is playing with the staffers. As someone who plays chess I kinda just roll my eyes at those parts because the writers are clearly just winging it.
@@vdinh143 So RU-vid didn't let me know that people replied to my comment, so this comment is 4 months old. Thanks Google. Like I said in my comment, I'm happy that at least Philosophy was venerated rather than lampooned in the show. However, I think Sorkin missed the irony of his own words. By using these famous excerpts of famous thinkers as a way to lampoon Ritchie's candidacy as trite and unoriginal, he himself has done just that by bastardizing Kant. Like, if you're going to quote a famous line from Kant, or Descartes, or Hume, then at least make Josh's reaction to the fortune cookie line fit the actual meaning of the famous line so that people understand what is meant by it. For the vast majority of people, people heard him quote that line and thought it was just some motivational speech bullshit. It's not. What Kant is saying here is among the most profound things written in the 18th century. So I just find it ironic that Josh ends up being just as guilty of being a shallow thinker as the Ritchie consultant chastising, and that's due to the sloppy writing. That's what stuck out to me the most about the scene. Oh, and you absolutely can understand Kant in a 4 hour seminar. It just has to be done by a Kant scholar. Honestly, rewatching the scene leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
It’s funny because I never thought much of that line when I first watched West Wing but now that I’m thinking about it we did read Kant in philosophy 300.
Mark Fey Trump is a reality tv show president. And don't forget although he can read, he doesn't. That book would take far more effort to read, than he would be willing to give.
Bartlett ,Leo ,Ritchie and Vinnick together could not carry Trump's briefcase for animal instinct -that's why he's a real president rather than a fictional progressive one or even a republican one.
Tim Mullens Oh, give me a break, will ya? Trump is the real buffoon here. Sure, this show was pie-in-the-sky and, of course, a work of fiction. But it demonstrates what the White House could be, and should be. Do you really think Trump and his staff care about each other. Do you really think they care about you, or your family? Get a clue, pal. "The low road?" This is the real West Wing, and you voted for it!
During my ethics class our professor made us read a section of ground work and metaphysics by Immanuel Kant. EXTREMELY HARD read. I read it 2 times and looked up summaries and was still puzzled. Look it up if you want a hard read.
I studied philosophy, about 20 years ago that is. I was fascinated by Kant. But it took me at least 10 reads of every single paragraph before I got a sense of maybe starting to get a sense of what he was saying. Which is exactly what Josh (and so, Sorkin) is saying here. It’s supposed to be complicated and nuanced, because our behavior is complicated and nuanced as well.
May 2023… “… is it possible that we would require any less from the person sitting in the chair? The low road?” I thought no one could be worse than the last guy. How horribly wrong I was. I mourn the days when I could hope to respect and esteem our nation’s leaders. I weep for our county.
It's 2020, and 20 years on since this was made. Couldn't possibly be more relevant. And the choices the US has.... drum roll please... Biden and Trump. #GoodLuckAmerica
Josh: I am comforted at least in my certainty that he is doing his best to reach for all of it and not just the McNuggets. Is it possible we would be willing to require any less of the person sitting in that chair? The low road? I don't think it is.” Josh lacked vision. It is indeed possible.
Sorry Josh. The low road is not only acceptable but actively encouraged when running as a Republican, and they despise Democrats for even acknowledging the high road exists.
"Is it possible we would be willing to require any less of the person sitting in that chair - the low road? I don't think it is." If he only knew how low that road would eventually go, Josh would probably shoot himself.
I know right. We just had a recall election for the governor of California, of course I voted no, being a centrist Democrat and he's one too and doing a good job. But even the moderate guy among the Republicans -- John Cox -- was saying he was against masks and social distancing :-( It's like really, John? You're like the smartest candidate on your side, this should be a bipartisan issue, come on man! He wasn't the front runner, though. The front runner was a Trump supporter. :-( Well, I'm glad Newsom won. I don't agree with everything he does but I think for the most part he has California going in a good direction. He certainly provided leadership against covid-19 that was needed when Trump was in office, him and Cuomo of New York.
"Is it possible we would be willing to require any less of the person sitting in that chair?" Yup. "The low road?" Yup. "I don't think it is." Ahh Josh, your faith and optimism in America is so adorable. We didn't just elect someone as dumb as Rob Ritchie. We elected someone even dumber. I'll bet Ritchie at least heard of Emmanuel Kant. I bet Trump thinks Kant is a Star Trek villain.
Ritchie was Dan quayle. While Trump is Quayle lite with a side of sinister. It was Quayle who Pence reached out to for advice over counting the electors.
Kant, (a Lutheran) valued truth over everyone and everything. He believed in moral absolutes, one of which was truth is everything and the only thing, no matter the consequences, no matter the cost, the truth must be told. This sounds morally superior and just to many, (except David Hume perhaps) and all must accept this moral and categorical imperative. Kant valued people, of course, but less than truth. So much in fact that even if you were hiding an innocent (Cindy Lou) from violence, and if the assailants asked you "Is Cindy Lou here?!" and all you would have to do is lie to ensure the innocent Cindy Lou to be safe, you Kant (pun intended). You must still tell the truth, even though the innocent Cindy Lou (and possibly you) would be harmed or even klled. People only have value, (according to Kant) if the truth always takes precedence. If you want the counter-argument to Kant's categorical imperative, David Hume would be a great place to start. You may read one disproved the other, but the truth is, the argument still rages today... we just call it something else.
jordan peterson, elon musk, joe rogan and everybody else like em. its what tiktok made us 60sec attention span and taking arguments on face value from the people you worship for no good reason
I think Josh was a little put off by the guy speaking _only_ in slogans, with no substance behind it. Ritchie -- who probably couldn't _spell_ syllogism, much less form one -- was an empty suit held upright by simplistic philosophy and empty platitudes.
...Which followed a book called "The Audacity of Hope" and another called "Dreams of My Father". Love him or hate him (or both, and there are reasons for both), there's no question that Barack Obama is capable of abstract thought and nuance. That's not the kind of person being discussed here.
I would pay good money to have Josh Lyman, Sam Seaborn and Toby Ziegler walk into the current WH and start cleaning house... oh if only they really existed - my liberal wet dream come to life. Throw in CJ, Anisley and Abbey Bartlet … now that would be something to see
Throw in the ghost of Leo and I'd be on my knees bawling like in that picture where apparently Jesus wrote the Constitution. And oh yeah, Fitz-wallace too.
It's just that; a dream. None of the recent Democrats in the Executive branch had this level of sophistication or dignity. They are petty, venal politicians and nothing more
They would loose, to your kind of idiot, The West Wing wit and rhetoric is only smart because they'r'e countered with equally average arguments, Sorkin can only write what he knows. Give Ben Shapiro a few minutes and he'll wipe the floor with Seaborn, Ziegler or Lyman. It's necessary to understand Kant? How about the simple argument that millions of philosophy students who studied Kant and can't figure out a thing because simply enough, studying Kant is a waste of time? Because Kant's theory itself, sometimes can not be used to apply into daily lives and daily matters, therefore only parts of his theory is used to make a new set of theory, which is called common sense and knowledge. Stop overrating the nonsense. Go ahead, explain the argument of transcendental idealism, we smart people will spend our actual time doing actual stuff that actually matter such as using that summarized concept to create wealth and values for the society.
They are real. You are that person. You just need to walk in a say this is important, will you let me do this if it will go others do this I've got a sign out front that says I'll be here for the repercussions. People who tell you to believe in getting something done by building walls and making deals to look over things isn't the same as learning about what it's like to paint human hope onto a killer of people of all things. Why the worst things happen. Why are the going to happen forever if you're not there to step into a place and say this is better because I believe in even you a killer of humans. If the white house won't do it. If people break the law. Paint the law as a sign of hope to stay at home and be someone who doesn't depend on the bullshit. You're here for a long time. Someone I love said that to me. Please go ahead and respond if you do dare to.
3:24 - Help Please..... Q: What is the purpose of the phrase "the low road" in the question? It seems the question was complete at the word "chair". Grammatically it doesn't seem to make sense. (after talking about how president probably reaches for all of Kant's wisdom not just the McNuggets).... "is it possible we would be willing to require any less of the person sitting in that chair, the low road? I don't think it is."
It's possible that he meant something along the lines of "would we want someone in the Oval Office, who when faced with a crisis, looks for the easy option, the one that requires the least effort to think about and do, rather than the harder, high ideal". Remember he is talking about a man running for the office of President, who is using phrases he has plagerised from others and hoping no-one will notice - i.e. rather than taking the high road (thinking for himself, the hard option) he is taking the low road (stealing ideas from others, the easy/lazy option)
In answer to your question about the structure of Josh's question, I think the phrase "the low road" is a restatement or an example given of "requiring anything less", essentially a more direct restatement of the more abstract terminology. Something like: "Is it possible we would be willing to require any less of the person sitting in that chair? To accept the low road?"
Man alive! This show brainwashed me so. Looking back I wish I hadn't absorbed the fortune cookie wisdom that Aaron Sorkin handed out so freely and actually thought deeply about political philosophy. Seeing California in ruins and Europe in disarray, the entire plan was to do to Americans what was done to the jews: encourage them to be unfoundedly self-loathing... They seemed to capture most of the cliche philosophical ironies, but for those who aren't aware: "I took the one less traveled. And that has made all the difference", was meant ironically as well. The road is something, but make sure you leave some freaking tracks will ya? Tick effing tock.
california in ruins? it's the greatest state in the union and always will be. you haven't learned to think for yourself if you're buying that pathetic lie; you just switched fortune cookie makers.
Immanual Kant. Groundwork of the Metaphysics of Morals. Being well read is not necessary in some jobs. You want a diet Coke with those McNuggets President Trump? I have a masters in Waiting Examiners. No. Wait. The Masters are Looking at my CITY AND GUILDS Waiting examination qualifications. Never read Immanual Kant. But Icahn, Carl. No offence billionaires boy club
"Understanding these thinkers"? Hey idiot, they think the same thing that people think without knowing them, study! If you're smart, you can rebuild and deduct every single part of Greek or modern philosophy in the matter of minutes. Try to think and stop quoting somebody. There are certain values that are correct, and it doesn't help you no matter how much you "understand" why those are correct. Here's an actual example and not a trash opinion like yours. A person kills a lot of people, there's no way to charge him or put him on trial, what do you do? The philosophers like Bartlet in the show can't make a decision. A smart person, knows that no matter how much you dive into the matter, you won't be able to find any better solution than what you can actually do, which is get rid of the killer through an "illegal" process because the "legal" term is a myth created by people to sustain an illusion of order. Clear? There's a reason people take the quote, it's everything you need to know from their whole chain of reasoning. Every thesis, every law of nature is just assumption by human that those are the correct ones because they can be used to explain certain aspect of nature, that's why laws can be changed, and sometimes even found out to be wrong. So yeah, study, kid!
Give a conservative a book and he can take it out of context and build a campaign out of it. Everything from the Bible to the Constitution to Squid Game.
“Why did Frost say that?” “He was being ironic.” No, he wasn’t. The neighbor says it. Frost argues against it the WHOLE POEM. He wasn’t being ironic, he presented it as a declaration against which he argued. F me - even when trying to be witty it’s just inexcusably pretentiously missing the point. Kind of makes you laugh, though.