I did wrestling in high school through college and one day I wrestled with a judoka. A pro judoka’s sense of balance and instinct on where to shift their weight is really something else. It prompted me to train judo as well.
@@mikaelnigel1 There's a distinct difference in grip fighting between Judo and wrestling. Judokas use a three-finger grip with is surprisingly stronger than the four-finger grip most wrestlers use. When a Judoka locks onto your sleeve, you're not getting your arm free, so you have to counter it. I've watched a lot of wrestlers who break a wrist grip by just yanking their arm back because their sweat makes it easier to slip out. That's what he's talking about.
This the most realistic scenario. Joining wresting in HS, I handily beat my coach who was straight out of college. I actually thought that training with them would make me worse off as a judoka. I liked their conditioning training, but the leg sweeps and catches were rather easy to do. I was too into Judo and decided that wrestling wasn't going to be good for me. Who knows if it was the right decision or not, but your comment was what many on the team said too.
When I was in highschool my school took our class on a trip to a Judo Gym who had a coach that was legally blind. The coach used me for a demonstration of the power of judo. He told me to throw a punch at his face, I tried throwing some slow weak ones first because he clearly could hardly see and I didn't want to injure him but each time he slapped the fist out of his face and asked me to throw a real one. Finally, I threw a real punch straight at him and before I knew what happened the whole gym was upside and I was falling. I've been a Judo fanboy ever since.
Judoka here. I valued cross-training with wrestlers for two reasons: their explosiveness and their never-quit attitude. To take down a wrestler, a Judoka has to get over the aversion to taking risks. Most Judokas, especially new Judokas, won't attempt a technique until we're sure we can make it work. That's why we grip fight and try to get into position. Wrestlers don't do that. They attack and attack and attack, often relying on counters to get them into position rather than the attempted technique. It's an accomplishment when you get a wrestler off his feet and onto the ground. But now you have to hold those squirrely, sneaky little bastards down for Osaekomi is hard AF. If you can regularly beat a wrestler to the attack, take him down, and then hold him down for a pin or a sub, then you're going to be a demon at your next Judo tourney.
Going from this great, humble reply, it would be great for judo coaches to set up cross-training bouts against wrestlers. I love judo, but I've gained immense respect and admiration for wrestlers too. Grappling is excruciating, and these two disciplines elevate it to a high level.
As a brown belt who hasn't practiced in more than a year, recreationally at that, this is a great description. My kata and technique is solid, but in a fight I still struggle to execute techniques. It's very much a confidence thing in my head.
I wrestled in college and have trained with a lot of judo guys. We went with gis and without and honestly a lot of our techniques are very similar. I learned a lot from the judo practitioners I sparred with. Ntm the way they transition from takedowns/throws to submissions you don't see that much in jiu jitsu once again really helped. Long way of saying as a wrestler i have nothing but reapect for Judo.
I trained in Judo, and my trainers were Olympians. They also trained in wrestling and the Judoka almost always won. But a great wrestler who trained in Judo, would be a Great wrestler, but not a great Judoka. Cross training is crucial for both!! The Judoka almost always won....
@@stevenharris6626 I concur training with Judo Players or Training Judo to then apply it to wrestling will escalate your game as a wrestler. For the simple fact it helped me and many others. On the flipside if you're primarily a Greco Roman Wrestler? I can see them being great Judo Players. However coming from a folkstyle background being put it into Judoka match? That would take away all my offense to lower body. Singles, doubles, low singles, high crotches to a double and chaining them all together. So I think I understand your logic.
I've had a similar experience. Wrestled 4 years in high school and went to a few training camps over the summers. I met a judo guy in my wait-class (119-130). The dude would always get me with an arm toss, and it made me so mad 😂
I might be wrong but I think there is an essential difference between judo and wrestling. They are both of course technically very evolved and depend on leverage and human anatomy which makes them similar but the wrestler use more of his own mass and momentum while judo seems more focused on throwing the opponents mass of balance and using his momentum against him. The actual movements are similar. The underlying philosophy and the way they are executed seem different.
@@Diogenes2077 Exactly this, when i sppared with wrestlers it was always easy to unbalnce them, because they constantly applied pressure, sweeps were my main tool, that said todays Judo lacks many tools it used to have, like single and double leg takedowns being not allowed anymore had me laughing, i do not like how Judo has become
1:25 White shorts - Wrestling Black shorts - Judo 2:25 Colorful - Wrestling White GI - Judo 2:58 No shirt - Wrestling Black shirt - Judo 4:11 Blue pants - Wrestling White pants - Judo 6:25 White suit - Wrestling Red suit - Judo 7:18 Same guys from 6:25 just with kimono Blue Gi Wrestling White GI - Judo 7:50 Red shorts - Wrestling Black pants - Judo
I'm thought it would help but to be honest, I don't even know who is winning because I'm not familiar with the rule to determine the winner can you add that too please?
@@Tomy-im8zl Thats hard to tell: wrestling and Judo have different rule sets: so for example in wrestling you get points for getting into the back of the opponent and if you are able to spin him around his length axis on the ground, if you are able to stand up again from the lower position, if you put the opponent to the ground on his belly, for pushing the opponent off the mat, and so on. You dont get any points in Judo for this. In Judo you get only points for holding the opponent a certain time, for a submission or for throws to the back or side of the body. So you cant judge a fight with both rule sets in mind. And we werent told if they agreed into one of the two rule sets. Also in Judo the fight ends immediately after a full point (good throw) with a win. And in wrestling if the opponent is pinned with both shoulders to the mat. Since this is sparring and also because they didnt agreed into a rule set, they went on..... With this in mind I would say: first fight Judo, second tie with no real points achieved, third tie after 1:1 points, fourth 1:1 with Judo in the end slightly better with some minor advantages (achieving to "sit down" the opponent twice), fifth and sixth clearly Judo, last fight I couldnt see well enough... (I have fought in Judo up to the national team championships and competed in wrestling and have been a coach for both sports.)
@@scheisstag alright thanks! That's what I wonder, I mean it's not only the style that differ but also the rules that allow points. Yet when mma fighther rate different martial art, it seems that Wrestling is always higher than Judo. Do you have any idea why? Are the rules too strict in judo compare to wrestling?
@@Tomy-im8zl There are three Judo rules that limit its usefulness for a MMA fight: first: referees tend to stop and stand up a Judo fight pretty fast nowadays. In wrestling you have to get up to your feet yourself. And there are even situations in a fight when the more passive fighter is forced by the referee to get into a bank position after a stalemate in wrestling. So in wrestling you learn better to stand up. Which gives you the ability to steer and control a fight in MMA: if you are fighting against a BJJ guy you try to stay standing and once you are taken down you immediately get up again. And if you are fighting a boxer you take him down. This also means in wrestling you are more focused on ground fighting than in Judo. And in Judos ground fighting you are more focused on submissions, while in wrestlings ground fighting you are more focused on getting the upper position. And the upper position is key for ground and pound. Second: there are two wresting styles: one that allows leg grabs aka take downs. One that does not. In Judo they changed the rules a couple of years ago and now take downs are not allowed any more.... Third: Judo is trained in a Gi, a jacket. So once you are in a MMA ring your grip fighting concept, some throws and also some ground techniques become impossible. Also Judo is more techniqually and has far more techniques. In contrast wrestling relies more on power and knows less techniques. So for a boxer its easier to acquire some wrestling skills than some Judo skills. Also in the west there are more people doing Judo recreational. While there are nearly no people training wrestling without competing. So the skill level in average is higher in wrestling. Which might lead to the misleading conclusion, that it would be more effective in general. Also in Judo you do a lot of hip throws. If you want to achieve a hip throw with a high level partner, you often have to follow through to the ground as well: but than you end up on the ground, with your back taken. Plus: in MMA you wear gloves. Its easier to do wrestling take downs with gloves, than to achieve a Judo throw with gloves.
I say versatility of knowing multiple styles beats a master of one. Every Fighting style has a flaw but the harder you train in one the bigger reward for the next.
I was a wrestler and I did judo later in life. One thing that I always said was that I wish that I did judo when I was young as it would have greatly improved my stand up game as i believe judo is superior there, but on the ground my wrestling was better and what I relied on.
@@vittocraziJust look at the high level freestyle and Greco-Roman wrestlers and they actually implement judo and sambo into their styles of wrestling. So there is a presence of that in wrestling already. But 99% of wrestlers don't know that they could be taken advantage of by even a young, inexperienced judoka.
I think it was in the early 1900s that two high-ranked Japanese judoka toured the UK, challenging all boxers and wrestlers. The Japanese judoka won every match. In 1918, the first judo dojo (the place of the way/training hall) in Europe, was founded by Gunji Koizumi in London and named the Budokwai.
Catch wrestlers tended to win by falls or submission against judokas. Ad Santel beat like 2 or 3 elite judokas from the Kodokan. Catch wrestling isn't as popular these days though.
If leg grabs were not taken out, I would say Judokas would be more dominant because of the inclusion of leg grabbing along with the mix of non-leg grabbing techniques. Now a majority of judokas aren’t familiar with the leg grabs that were common back in day which makes it a even playing field between wrestlers and judoka. There’s also the concept of Kazushi which for wrestling I’m not sure if there is that concept of breaking opponents balance and efficiency to throw.
Many high level judokas are still training the competition forbidden techniques, so if you find one of them and another wrestler willing to pact whether they fight using gi or not, you might have a possible and fair answer to that question
Actually it's only IJF competition rules that have those limits, many judo clubs still train using the banned techniques, they even practice atemi, at least they do In the UK
@@jaymorris3468 ah I see, yea I don’t see USA dojos teach any leg technique, only if that judo instructor is teaching it for a bjj class. IJF should jus bring leg grabs back anyways 🤷🏻♂️
@@xMobombax yes, the reason for the ban was because they want to highlight the dynamic throws and make it more explosive as players were scoring with a leg grab to the ground then hanging on to it making it very boring for spectators, however I think they've gone too far, some of the dynamic throws using the hands like teguruma and some entrees into kataguruma (to name just a few), have been swept up in the ban but I get why they did it, we do see more explosive matches now,
The fight is only interesting if you leave out armbars and chokes. Then you can make two fights in both disciplines and respective dresses. The same as mentioned rowing against kanu.
I love wrestling, but more Collegiate/Folkstyle than freestyle as it concentrates more on ground control and winning by Fall rather than Freestyle which,while you can win by Fall,concentrates much more heavily on the points game. In my youth I did wrestle a friend of mine who was learning judo,and did beat him most of the time,but to be fair, while we were both novices I was much more experienced. I did learn a number of things from him that really helped my wrestling. That being said if one were looking for a great method of self defense I would go with Judo. One,in most cases when if you find yourself getting attacked both you and your attacker are going to be fully clothed,so the throws and chokes which incorporate grips on clothes are going to be there. Two,unless you practice catch wrestling,or perfect ground and pound,,the ground game you need to disable your attacker is virtually none existent in,Freestyle, Folkstyle,or Greco,but in Judo you will learn chokes and armbars,etc,which you can use to end a fight. Three,I think that for self defense I think that Judo,with its great use of leverage, lends itself much better for the smaller or older person to use. Though I was a pretty good wrestler at my age now,60,I wouldn't want to have to rely on the strength and speed to hit single or double leg takedowns or any number of other wrestling techniques to overcome a younger,stronger,faster attacker. A nice violent Judo throw landing an attacker on the concrete,which makes much more use of position and leverage ,is superior.
I did Judo some some time as well as other martial arts and I similarly feel that Judo is the best basis for self defense. It would be my first step if I started my life again. Then I would go on to supplement it with more self defense focused training to cover it's weaknesses.
Japan is a cold nation in winter. Judo was used for self-defense and street fights, not in a court indoor. If you wear anything at all, you will lose to a judoka. And Judo does not stress too much on the ground game because in the old days, people would be ambushed by more than one attacker. Staying on the ground was definitely silly. Wrestling was used mainly in war situations, especially by the Mongolians and people in the near East when fighting could turn very messy and you couldn't escape one way or another.
@ Mikefoley4964 good points. Keeep in mind; with Wrestling one can and will learn faster. Therefore; one will be more efficient. BJJ Legend Marcelo Garcia talked about this subject years ago. Wrestling vs Judo. With Judo; yes, one can be effective. Depending on how good you become. However; it's a lot more technical in Judo. Again, however; it's going to take longer to be very effective as a Judo stylist. By the way; i have a background in Judo and have cross trained in Catch Wrestling.
I just saw this compilation this morning, but it was immediately a huge source of joy for me (as a broken down old former Judoka who also has great respect for wrestling), and I am confident I will be returning to this video for second, third, fourth ( _et cetera_ ) viewings in the near future. Thanks for putting this together.
Don't put khabib statement out of contexts, what he mean is that judo has many member countries, their medal has more prestige than much fewer wrestling countries. With millions competing in judo comparing to hundreds of thousands competing in wrestling...
No he meant judo is class the techniques are elegant and high level. It requires perfection for one to execute judo throw. There's a reason his father was crazy about judo and wanted him to learn. Judo. Please don't insult Khabib and hus father by misrepresenting his words
I’m a judoka. I went and did wrestling for about 3 months until my coach suggested a competition. I went and took gold. None of my fights lasted even 1 minute. I don’t know why this is a debate. Both wrestlers and judokas have strengths in different ways
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From my perspective as a former intermediate Judoka, who used to train with Wrestlers sometime, is that it is hard to tell. In my country Greco-Roman dominates completely, so I think I would give the edge to Judo. Back then we had leg grabs and they didn't, but absolutely no scuffing on wrestlers. What we always feared their sheer physical conditioning and raw strength, while we countered with unbalancing and keeping balance. They are simply different, with strengths and weaknesses, Gi or No-Gi. But although I have little to no experience with freestyle/folkstyle, and all due respect to them, I think I would give a slight advantage to Judo anyway. The main reason is that there is a quick transition into the submission game that pure wrestling hasn't. I also think that from a martial perspective, where I feel that the extremely bent over posture among freestyle wrestlers is hampering them a bit. Greco-Roman wrestlers are better in that regard, but the rules are too hampering. In my experience, most of the time people end up in some sort of clinch, outside a ruleset, and even MMA has rules. But it by my no means a settled thing. Just my opinion.
Great concept, nice video. Would be better if it was subtitled who each contestant was (eg judoka in red) because for most of them I couldn't tell which was which.
1:25 White shorts - Wrestling Black shorts - Judo 2:25 Colorful - Wrestling White GI - Judo 2:58 No shirt - Wrestling Black shirt - Judo 4:11 Blue pants - Wrestling White pants - Judo 6:25 White suit - Wrestling Red suit - Judo 7:18 Same guys from 6:25 just with kimono Blue Gi Wrestling White GI - Judo 7:50 Red shorts - Wrestling Black pants - Judo
There are many Japanese grappling styles which could be considered a form of "wrestling", and most of them (including Judo) descend from sumo one way or another.
There is also Chinese wrestling or shuai jiao, and Mongolian wrestling. I don't know much about either, but they have some similar techniques to wrestling and Judo. If a serious grappler has the time, money, and resources, it would probably pay to study a bit in all of these arts.
I do both, the way i see now is they are literally the same martial art in concept the difference is their practice due to historic situations and now modern rule set for competition . Wrestling was designed to grab a person when he was wearing armour so you couldn't grab any clothing. Judo has literally all the same moves as wrestling but works on grabing the Gi as people would wear historicaly similar traditional garments in day to day life so functional in that way. If you remove the Gi and competition rules judo literally becomes wresting. If you add some form of clothing to grab wrestling would look just like judo. 2 different cultures arrived at literally the same conclusion. Why because they worked.
Judo is a form of wrestling, Mongolian wrestling you can grab the cloth. Sumo is a form of wresting, kushti is a form of wrestling. Wrestling is a general term for grappling. Freestyle was trying to make a status quo allowing different parts of the world and their form of wrestling to compete against each other. A lot of freestyle wrestlers do incorporate trips, whizzers/Uchi mata ,arm throws etc. Just no gi. Look at saitiev brothers they have a different style to american wrestlers.
In my experience, wrestlers have a hard time with the gi. If they can shoot in from far away they’ll have better luck, but a solid grip on the jacket with good kuzushi and foot work shuts down the majority of wrestlers takedown ability. That said, I don’t personally know hardly any judoka who are very good without a jacket because they don’t practice without a jacket.
I competed in both from childhood through college. It was never a 'which is better' but always that one is a force multiplier for the other. They have always complimented each other very well.
I did Judo in the 80s and 90s and did wrestling in high school -- for fitness and additional training. The issue of Judo vs. wrestling always comes down to the rules and the fact that the two almost never compete against each other with zero knowledge of each other. I never went into a wrestling match with zero knowledge of wrestling, so it was never a Judoka vs. a wrestler but a wrestler who did Judo vs. a wrestler. Likewise, I never fought any 'wrestlers' in Judo competitions as they all had wrestling + years of Judo or else they'd never get on the tatami. If there were 'no' rules, I'd destroy any pure wrestler simple as wrestlers leave themselves open to chokes and armlocks. Then again, I never fought anyone without any rules -- even school yard fights had some unwritten rules.
What about catch wrestling? I've trained a little jiu jitsu and some of the moves we were taught came from catch wrestling. I prefer grappling over striking,but I've always felt really awkward and uncoordinated when it comes to striking. I prefer being as well rounded a fighter as possible,so I'm focused on mainly boxing right now.
Agreed. I've fought competitively in both Judo and Wrestling, the rules make a HUGE difference. A wrestler who had to follow Judo rules is at a disadvantage, and a Judoka who has to follow wrestling rules is at a disadvantage. Even the difference between BJJ and Judo required me to use different methods. Pins for example. Wrestling is a short pin, 1-3 seconds, flat on the ground. So a lot of bridging. Judo is 30 seconds with the shoulders inclined down. Bridging doesn't stop the timer. BJJ has no pin timer, so people work flat on their back all the time. The rules make a huge difference to what the athlete can do with muscle memory vs thinking about everything they're doing.
On mats likely, on concrete I'm betting on the wrestlers every single time. Getting dumped on your head from a two legged takedown is basically the end of it, same thing goes for getting slammed during forced transitions. BJJ guys like to think the same thing but they are too used to doing comps where "no slams" are allowed and they can rely on the clock plus that's on mats, on the real ground you're getting wrecked if you get lifted.
@@theperfectbeing A judo throw to concrete will knock also all your wind out and basically end most fights. They are both slamming people on the ground, just doing it differently: seoi nage or double leg, getting lifted up and slammed will incapacitate most regular people.
@@isaacvale918 Hi Isaac. Just getting back to you no insult intended, I was specifically speaking about Judoka and training with my reference to the Gi not kimono. Sorry for any insult inferred.
Judo, Wrestling, and BJJ are the best styles for grappling: -Judo can throw you in any way and let the gravity smash your face to the ground, and let the planet beat you to death -Once a Wrestler gets a grip on you you will get slammed to the ground eating concrete -BJJ can loosen your joints and bones while folding you like paper, its like folding your clothes while your in it. (Aikido only works if your opponents hands are up and when they are cooperating)
@@ElDrHouse2010 Judo can be done perfectly fine w/o Gi - as long as the practicioner knows what he does (and those who don't (=beginners, early intermediates) won't quite be able to use it outside a "strictly Judo" competition anyway, even if they face someone whose clothes offer sleeves, lapels). And that goes for literally every grip location...
The physically strongest opponents I had were from wrestling! I come from judo and fight at a very high level. The problem is the particular rules to which the fighter has adapted. Furthermore, judo is technically adapted to the situation and without gi, fighters used to be almost defenseless against no gi. This has adapted. Likewise, a lever or choke was a problem for a wrestler, which has also ended. The old question of what is better has to do with the individual, the training levels, the experience, what situation is fought under what rules and the mental state of the person. In the UFC, judoka were champions, as were wrestlers. I would rather have a street fight against a judoka than a wrestler. To train technique a judoka. And as friends, both ☺️
I have an intressting anekdot from my teenage when I trained Greek-Roman Wrestling. Couse, at my club there was a gang of old geezers, that was alwayes sitting at the side-lines around a small Caffè table & had "Fika" while we trained. Talked to them, I learned that they are "True wrestler Veterans" - 1 of the older man was "Edwin" a OS Bronz medalist ( lightweight i think ) - they were a gruffy bounch, but soooo sweet. Openly shared storys from there careers & otherthings. With that, ...shared when Judo made its debut to Sweden!! Here in Sweden - I think it was around the 60s - 70s or so (dont remember) when Judo was pressented here in Sweden, and with that Judo got a lot of promotion, exbosition & fight demostrations held by some very "renownd" Judo Master at that time. Durin that time wave, that Judo Master invited theese wrestler's for a "wrestling"(Judo rules only) match, as for promotion demostration infront of a bigger live audience. man, (dead at the time they told me the story, also the father to one adult clubmember) accepted the match with no knowledge about Judo; just only some moments before the match the Master explained the rulings for him. ...Well, the Master was thrown around like a ragdoll for a couple of rounds & mins, til they ended the event. "There was so mouch to grabb on, so it was fun" or something along thoes lines was he's (wrestlr) response - according to the oldies. Thats intressting, couse Greek-Roman Wrestling is mouch more simular to Judo, almost identical with technics & everything - compared to Free-style Wrestling, that is almost 90% Rushing thoward the legs & pin them down to the back. My very limited knowledge i still posses in Greek Roman has often been enough to put many experienced Judokan to a test. BUT If I meet a Free-styler then I cant & most Greek-Roman really do anything, couse G'R are forbidden to touch / grabb below pelvis, like the legs & feet. An example is from another tell from the geezers; Sweden sended over a new troop of Wrestlers for an tournament in Turkey. But when they arived, the Turks just had Free-stylers, & Sweden just had sended over G'R, so Sweden got whiped bad due to rules, that define the whole Style. Samething would I say is mostly simular between Judo & Free-style. I would say that Judo has a clear advantage over free-style - havnt seen any that dosnt struggle with Judokans both standing & on the ground. Compared to Free-style W, Judo isnt limited to Pins & Leghugging. Judo has a superior ground work something I respect Judo for, couse I seen & felt how "ending" it can be by my very close friend that is a Grandchild to one of Netherlands highest ranking Judo Master/ Trainer - he has even train the their national OS team. Greek-Roman Wrestling has a "primal" advantage over Judo. Free-Style humilate Greek-Roman. Judo humbles Free-style.
The Judoka doesn't wear KIMONO, the Judoka wear JUDOGI, a kimono is a traditional japanese suit, even so a judogi and a kimono do not look similar each other
Yes, but kimono-style. Of course in Kyudo, Kendo or Aikido (Steven Seagal shows in one movie how to wear the Kimono with the sword) it is more traditional. The simple "gi" is there different from that in Judo or Karate. There is Bushido and Budo. Kenjutsu, Kyujutsu, Jujutsu .. is more martial and comes directly from Bushido. Budo is today more fighting sport. 'Martial Art" is today a little bit exaggerated. Self defense is maybe something inbetween.
@@spencerantoniomarlen-starr3069 You can compare the uniform of a soldier at different times and you will also see some elements that remain. The difference between the European sword and the European weapons from military to sport are evident. The same in Asia. When the warrior lost all his weapons the boxing (with kicking) and then the clinch began. Karate was connected to Chinese (kick-) boxing, Savate is french (kick-) boxing. Thai boxing is harder. But what do you do on the ground? - asked Ion Bluming from Amsterdam.
@@spencerantoniomarlen-starr3069 You can call the dress of a dressage tail of a dressage horse rider "tail" a sports dancer wears a dancing tail. Of course the judo gi is very special and not very traditional however it is still a shortened type of Kimono, not the lang trousers.
I started out in the early 1960s with Judo, and in the late 1960s with GoJu Ryu karate, in the early 1970s, i trained in Tae Kwon Do. And now, in my seventies, i continue to train in gunjutsu.
I had Wolfgang Biedron one of Swedens best teachers in Judo and I once asked him who in the world he wouldn't want to fight and he said that he would fight anyone in the world in a 1x1m room except one person Alexandr Karelin.
@NoRockinMansLand Most likely yes but Wolfgang made his last competition mid 90s, but I'm fairly sure that he wouldn't had wanted to grapple with Mijian if they were closer to the same age.
For three years of DIII wrestling I had a teammate who combined extensive Judo training with his wrestling. I was trained traditionally in wrestling only. His balance points were certainly different, and he made me a much better wrestler because of it. Funnily enough, I was never thrown in college, despite going against some DI dudes as well. Perhaps this was the reason.
@kineticsage8137 Go do real judo training with a solid sensei and he will have you disciplined and learning the various throws, trips, and footsweeps, as well as the kata we do, in a matter of weeks. Within 2 years you could become a orange belt, and within 5 you can be a green belt, within 8 I was a brown belt, and within 9-10 years of full-time training you can become a black belt.
You have to define what you mean by "win". Are you talking about "takedowns" or "top control" or "submissions" or "mma style fight"? The truth is there is no such thing as one style winning every single time anyway.
It comes down to the person and the crosstraining a judoka that has practiced no gi grips is going to have an the edge, but a wrestler that can fend off chokes and joint locks is going to be a bear to stop.
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Judokas definitely on throwing techniques and on strength its subjective, rules are apples and oranges but skill set and timing, for throws, definitely JUDO and Sambo but the question is a silly one from the beginning. There is no better unless you have bouts using same rules, but judokas have more armament in their arsenal. They compliment each other as does BJJ. When wrestling a wrestler a judoka has to become a wrestler and vice versa.Theyre both wrestlers at the end of the day specialising in different skill sets. The video shows nothing and there's no context on whos who, rules fighting under or anything.
You can tell the wrestlers from the hand placement on the head, the ankle control when they take the back and the way they use a bunch of fast short footwork movements when they circle to grab. It's all much more frantic than the other types of grappling.
I do all because I train BJJ and There's a benefits in learning wrestling and judo to help BJJ. Don't limit yourself in one martial arts, try all of them and make it your own.
I agree. It seems wrestlers rely more on brute strength and most of them look like bulls. Most judokas look like regular people although built pretty solid.
@@safeandeffectivelolnah. Competitivo judokas are insane. Only It allows more build variety due to ample range of strats. But also wrestling IS ridiculously technical... Outside of the US, where the doctrine IS too streamlined into singles and doubles and pushing through.
@@vittocrazi Competitive wrestlers are still bigger. That doesn't mean they can't be technical. Judo seems more like a self-defense technique that a regular office worker can do out on the street. I'm talking about traditional Judo, not the sport Judo.
It's rarely a style vs style. It's almost always a man vs man. However, in a real life situation, away from equator ie. northern hemisphere where one usually wears something on Judo would be more advantageous with it's use of the clothing of the practitioner or the opponent. At the same time I would say that wrestlers are, most probably, the most athletic of all the fighting styles practitioners. They are like gymnasts and fighting a wrestler is always a challenge, no matter what you're training background is.
Judo and Wrestling are highly underrated now in MMA. BJJ’s glaring weakness is the standing game and the fluid transition time from upright to ground. This is why Brock Lesnar destroyed the competition. His wrestling background and freakish athletic ability kept fighters from settling into the ground game because he dominated that brief one to two seconds transition from upright to ground and ground to upright.
I constantly hear how no-gi is supposedly better for real street fighting or self-defense while everyone seems to ignore that people wear clothes in real life so it makes sense to practice grabbing them sometimes (and dealing with people grabbing your clothes)
@@MaxLohMusic Oh yeah absolutely true however the issue here is professional cage fights not street fights. In a street fight Judo has no equal because of throws and some very lethal techniques while you still standing. In a cage fight judoka is at a disadvantage.
@@ComboMuster Doesn't seem to be the case in real life tho both judokas and sambo practicioners do excelent in the cage, it's just that olympic tier judokas cross train much less that their wrestler equivalent.
I'm a 3x state champion wrestler and bjj black belt. Trained some judo as well. "Who wins" depends on the rules and how well the athlete adapts to something new and applies what they know. Wrestling generally is going to have better athletes just because of the culture of the sport being a popular NCAA supported college sport gives wrestling a big advantage. Judo doesn't have a as many competitions locally and the ones they have aren't as big as wrestling tournaments. The biggest disadvantage is wrestling rules are designed to avoid injuring your opponent so every method a wrestler uses to finish a fight is going to deviate from their sport. Because of the culture and physical advantages wrestling usually provides a better foundation for BJJ than Judo because Judo and BJJ have too much overlap (sounds counterintuitive but Judo + BJJ looks exactly like BJJ, Wrestling + BJJ looks like a BJJ competitor who is amazing at takedowns and very hard to sweep because of their solid base) Judo is not going to encourage you to be as creative and learn new ways to use your foundations. Your competitors are going to be very well versed in defending standard Judo techniques like Ko-Uchi-Gari because its what they're used to. BJJ guys don't know what to do when I leg lace them and convert that into a leg lock, they don't know what to do if I use a leg lace to pass guard, catch wrestling moves often catch them off guard as well. But its really hard to make such a general statement about what really comes down to the individual
@@AndrewLaRealI don't know where that guy goes to judo, but my judo club in upstate NY always stresses about doing randori (or active full 100% sparring) from the feet to the ground and following throws to the ground with submission and/or choke attempts. I was known (before I stopped going to classes, due to becoming an adult and having to work and go to school) for being able to lock in armbars and chokes from the feet to my back in a few seconds.
Ehh that's false lmao never heard of NeWaza? Look up where BJJ originates from, Judoka are aware of most of the techniques. They are just more explosive with the submissions
It would be critically helpful for the ignorant viewer if you specified, with physical description, which competitor is the judoka and the wrestler in each match. Thanks for the video!
Good stuff, thanks for this. By the way, it's pronounced "Tcha-mEE-so" for the Cuban wrestler. In Cuba, we had these boarding schools for sports, where the young athletes lived for the most part of the month, only going back home every other weekend. The fights between wrestlers and judokas and boxers were fun to watch. In the lower categories, the wrestlers dominated because they were physically stronger usually than the other two combat sports.
@deifor I don't know where they are, but in Japan and even in the states, judokas I knew and competed with were some of the strongest I know and insanely fast throwers.
I wrestled and coached wrestling and currently am a judoka. These sports are equally challenging and have their attributes. When you are talking about preparation for competition, they are the same, grappling is grappling, appreciate both
All these artists are FANTASTIC! I have practiced for more than 58 years, Judo, Jiu Jitsu, Sambo and Catch-as-Catch-Can Wrestling, and I am very happy that I still teach these styles to the new generations. Best Regards! 😃
Judo is dependent on wearing clothing because their technique is dependent on the ability to grab the clothing. Wrestlers are use to competing without clothing so their technique is not dependent on clothing. So, who would win?? it depends on whether they are clothed or not. If both are clothed, then the Judoka will win. If they are not clothed, then the wrestler will win. But which one is best for the street? Judo because most people on the street wear clothing.
In 1964, judo first became an Olympic sport. Along with all the other sports teams, the first British Judo Team were tested for fitness by the Olympic Team doctor and deemed to be the fittest team. The person rated to be the fittest out of all the British Olympians was judo's Brian Jacks. This was told to me by my judo instructor Brian Davies, who I believe was the treasurer (?) at the Budokwai when I knew him in the late 60's/early 70's.
I was 21 years young and weighed 140 lbs. I had a black belt, one day a guy walked in saying was a wrestler and he weighed close to 300 pounds. He then said he wanted to show he could beat me. Long story short I won and he left very embarased
A lot of judoka - at least where I grew up - were also wrestlers (or were the wrestlers also judoka?). A lot of the best judoka were also the best high school wrestlers and many of the top judoka I knew wrestled at the collegiate level. I know 2 who were national collegiate champions in wrestling and national junior or senior champions in judo at the same time.
These judokas fighting no gi making half of their techniques impossible to do and still executing throws is, to me at least, reason enough to consider it more effective.
Truth is that ALL of judoka and wrestlers of that level are plain universal grapplers who crosstrained AF. They are neither Judoka nor Wrestlers anymore. Judo and Wrestling are just their jobs.
As a wrestler who grapples with Judo guys, I think both styles have a lot to learn from one another. I love how slick a lot of the techniques and takedowns are for Judo, especially the ones which don't require a grip on the Gi. Judo emphasizes setup and timing, where wrestling is often a lot of pressure and scrambles. Even if I get taken down, or tripped or something else I always spring back up or find the reversal. But if I manage to get them down, I'm usually able to keep control or stuff the reversals. Judo is a lot about creating the right moment and perfecting the technique. Wrestling is a lot about persistence and sheer athleticism. I think both styles are two sides of the same incomplete grappling coin. Both are incredibly good grappling styles, and the winner between the two arts is usually not going to be a matter of which style is better, but who is the better grappler. I also think mixing the best of both styles along with submissions from catch wrestling and jui jitsu makes for such a great style of grappling. All these grappling arts fill a specific role in grappling and they rarely conflict with one another in my experience.
I grew up in Brazil , did Jiu Jitsu for most of my teenage years . Judo guys were and are the toughest guys to fight. In fact most of us from Jiu Jitsu did Judo too. Back in the 80s and 90s were a whole different time … I respect the sport Judo more than anything. 🙏🙏🙏🙏
I've never seen the specific variation of kouchi at 6:16. It seems pretty innovative, and similar to a muay thai sweep Edit: What the... I've also never seen this particular variation of uchi mata at 6:36 with an ankle tap. Must try
@@TakeItToTheGround are you talking about the first or second technique? Neither are standard. The first is done with practically no grip and the second is not kouchi; it was uchi mata to ankle pick (although, on second thought, the latter is actually a well known combination)
@@MaxLohMusic The first technique you mentioned at 6:16 seems to me rather a Ko-soto than a Ko-uchi. Nonetheless, you are right, very different than what is taught in kyu curriculums, him trying to sweep the foot without any grip and such.
As bruce lee said.. attributes always win over techniques.. judo vs wrestling or any martial arts.. whoever is mentally and physically better will emerge victorious.
It's usually the MMA ignoramuses talking shit about Judo. I remember hearing A LOT OF SHIT from MMA guys who had never learned judo or who thought they could just ask you to teach them Uchi Mata. They're clueless of how refined a martial art judo is, even compared with regular Western wrestling (Even "catch"). In Judo you don't just "learn moves". There is a vast prerequisite of learning how to move and how to feel out the opponent. One doesn't just "learn Uchi Mata". IT is an advanced technique that requires a mastery of various skills BEFORE you can learn to do it properly. Yet... it LOOKS simple.
Both are amazing... BUT there is absolutely no doubt in my mind after being in MMA for 10yrs.... If you did JUDO(i dont mean jujitsui...)... your sence of balance, takedown defence, leg sweeps... are way superior to any one.
I actually did ... I remember him being the most reselient and hard pushing bull I had ever encountered. But he was also the easiest victim of my Tomoenage I had ever imagined!!!
In California we have the largest Japanese population in the United States with many Japanese community centers that have Judo dojos that I practiced Judo in. One of my training partners was a 3 time national Judo champion and state wrestling champion. Judo and wrestling have been mixing in California for many years.
I train bjj with a few kids like you, they’ve been training bjj for a few years and we’re doing well. But they got into wrestling at their high school and now their bjj is so much better
I did both for years Biggest difference: Judo is focusing on technical throws and wrestling is pure fighting! Love both 💪 Great sports, in my experience!
I’d say it depends on the person and he wants to fight. One nice thing about Wrestling and Judo is that like BJJ, Sambo, and other grappling styles is that they are very similar to each other. Hence no matter which you start with, you can cross train with any of them and it will only make you better. In fact you’ll often find schools that cross train. Only difference is where your emphasis is.
@@zartic4life actually they all originate from ancient Egypt/Kush. If you look at the ancient paintings you will recognize some techniques still used today. But anyway, BJJ is basically just Judo but NeWaza with a different name. BJJ doesn't have new inventions, if you are top at NeWaza and stand up then you are complete at grappling. It's still good to crosstrain but Judo is so complete
Kid that had been practicing judo for ten years came to wrestling practice. He lost to every wrestler because of wrestling rules, you get pinned you lose. He ended up on his back every time.
I have judo and greco/freestyle background. My first style was judo but wrestling in my opinion and according to 30 years of mma (see also ufc 1-12 with no rules) is the best.
Khabib didn't say that judo is stronger than wrestling, but that it's harder to become Olympic judo champion because far more people practice judo than freestyle wrestling.
This video clearly demonstrates how bad ass both are..!! I wrestled at a very high level trained by a national champ..!! I only thought my throws were good until I took 2 mandatory semesters of Judo for a criminal justice degree..!! It was a complete game changer for me..!! I believe any wrestler who wants to be better should take Judo..!!
Ronda Rousey could take people who are not wearing a kimono down any time. So, basically you have to maintain a good distance like what Holly Holmes did. Most Judokas do not have superb footwork. So, let them come over to chase you. They will expose their weakness when they become impatient.