I own 3 BBFs so I have some experience with these engines. Richard, you were correct about the Edelbrock manifold being better, but even the non-air gap Performer RPM is still a better manifold choice than the Weiand Stealth, especially for a mild combo like this. The Comp cam choices are typically made with Chevys in mind so I have stayed away from their cams, and opted for proper dual pattern and custom camshafts. These Fords need a lot more exhaust emphasis than a Chevy does, and the intake ports don't really need any help at all. Bottom line, both these combos would make more power with not more money, but a more specific set of parts. Especially the 460.
I did whats called a poor mans 460-500 stroker for a truck once with stuff laying around shop read about it in a mag one time so one day had a customer who wanted cheap torque for old truck pulling equip. So took and offset ground crank used a set pontiac 455 rods narrowed down some .030 Olds 400 slugs and Cadillac 390? rod bearings. Had a cam ground, zero decked it shaved n ported exh up on some small ch heads. Its been yrs since I built it but actually did really good. Prob wasnt worth the hassle but he said would pull anything he could put behind it. Ever heard of one them? Lol
@@god1st.530 it's know to everyone that Chevy mouse and rat had good exhaust ports. Comp knows it too. That's why single pattern cams. Comp has finally got with the program and made dual pattern cams. But most Ford engine builders use other cams because Comp has low quality and a failure rate factored in.
In mechanical theory the 460 Ford should be the longer lasting motor. The 460's shorter stroke gives lower piston speed at any given RPM and theoretically less wear. The 460's longer rods combined with the shorter stroke provide less rod angularity again theoretically giving less stress and wear on engine block and components.
Maybe, but I've had a few flat tappet cams go flat so I think that would factor in as far as longevity. Not saying the chevy motor is better its just 30 years (roughly) newer. And I own a ford and a chevy so I'd like to think I'm not biased
Thank you I was born into a Ford family but power is power, the only reason it should matter what brand is making it should come down to what body style you like
Well the only one of the three that has achieved anything with their engines in this case their big block is Ford winning lemans with the legendary 7.0l FE hitting 7k rpm for 24 hours beating ferraris V12. But these hicks and inbreeds thinks cheby is better because there is more of em in the junkyard? No point in mentioning dodge their a joke, sometimes honestly idk what I’m missing.
@@CoyoteFTW MIke, 7.000 rpm was the MAX RPM LIMIT they were allowed to turn during the race by Shelby. For 99.9% of the 24 hour race, they turned about 5,000-5,500 rpm. The 427's were detuned in order to finish the race.
Im a 454 guy. But have been around both. They are great stock and beasts tweaked. And have seen pretty decent mpgs from both. Wayyyy better than my current k3500 6.0 NV4500. 10 empty.
actually it is a rule of thumb, because back when folks built 5.0 pushrods rather than swapped 'em for Coyotes (due to the block splitting), they tended to let loose at 500hp. Part of that is the blower belt pulled tight on that crank--its a different crank than earlier 302's (edit: don't know why i said its a different crank, its the same crank, but the firing order changed on the HO to the 351W, so that the rear cylinders fired at the same time than the front ones), which is why the engine needs a different weight flywheel. Also, the low deck Windsor max bores to .04, while a Chevy goes .06 over, which tells you the difference in wall thickness--the Windsor was initially designed to be a 221 cid economy car engine, the 265 chevy was a passenger car and truck engine that ended up at 400 cid. there are some low deck windsors that CAN go to a .06 overbore, and they are the ones that tend to last beyond 500 hp with screw in core plugs and a girdle on the bottom end and maybe the wider K code Challenger 289 main caps. But for the majority of low deck Windsors, the question isn't "will it crack its main webs past 500hp" its "when"...proven by a ton of racers in the 1980's, on the tracks and on the streets.
@@albertgaspar627 For starters, the idea that people are swapping to coyotes over their pushrods because the blocks are splitting is purely subjective and nonsensical. They do it because it offers greater than twice the power production stock for stock. Be that as it may, there are a plethora of small block Ford's still competitive today ranging from dead stock thin wall roller blocks all the way to the pricy Dart combos, whom many of which boasting these stock block combos produce *way* more power than what is debated to be block splitting territory. Now, to the actual block splitting fallacy and why it is just that. If there is some "x" power number that the mechanical strength of the block is bested by, the same result would be seen across "most" of the engines regardless of the power adder or scenario but we already know that's not the case and you even helped make the point for me. If a power adder sbf is equipped with say, a positive displacement blower, the rotating assembly has a far different level of stress applied to it than say, a turbocharged engine, or even a combo on spray. To make the claim that it is the "x" amount of hosepower will be the detrimental failure completely disregards the fact the block has no way of knowing the difference in horsepower whether its 499 or 700+. Its less to due with the horsepower being produced, and everything to do with cylinder pressures, rpms, and where the engine is producing its torque. Lastly, saying that this is proven by racers is factually inaccurate. The only 5.0 block ive personally seen split was a roots blown stock block that lived several seasons at well over 750hp to the tires for years before even boasting any serious issues. While my personal experiences dont account for a rule, by definition, to be a rule of thumb, we would expect anyone who exceeds this power level to experience issues or total failure but decades of racing these combos has proved the opposite. Im not saying it doesnt happen, im just stating its not the "500" ,"600", or any "X" horsepower that will produce these failures, rather its huge loads at peak cylinder pressures, which can occur at any power level. By definition, its not a rule of thumb and rather remains an exception. Even Richard has good discussions regarding this and why its less of a rule , and more of an exception. He as produced in excess of the "safe" power level handling on multiple occasions, even racing his own supercharged sbf non intercooled with as long as 30 minutes at 100% wide open throttle and it lived on. This is just one of thousands examples. How many times have you personally seen a failure?
@@madmod 500hp on a roller block is just common not guaranteed that's why I added a note about powershifting implying load shock to engine which is less likely to occur with an unlocked tc auto. It also has moore to do with tune "project stock bottom end" is a good read 800hp with a tko and it a daily driver (I'm not sure who daily's that though).
@@richardholdener1727 Unless you get a siamesed tall deck Bowtie block, put in a 4.5" stroker crank at which point you have over 600 cubes. But you won't be doing that with a junkyard block.
I'm gm, but I love my 78 bronco. Putting a 460 in it now. My uncle made me want a 78, or 79 Bronco. I think a ford should have a ford motor. Although at one point I thought of putting a 454 in it. Thanks for this.
You used some of the last parts I would use on my BBF. The weiand intake is far from the capabilities of the RPM Air gap . The Weiand Stealth kills torque on the BBF in my experience. Oddly enough they seem to work great on BBC . Getting that 68 460 to 1hp per cu in is easy as can be with a RPM Air Gap , Cam and ignition upgrade. 500 hp isnt difficult either. Both of those engines are easy to get into the 500 hp range without too much difficulty . I actually have both right now . I have a 73 Chevy pickup with 454 and use the Weiand Stealth intake, long tube headers, Comp cam, Comp Timing set , Comp lifters and springs and Comp Roller Rockers with a 850cfm Holley that chassis dynoed @ 457 rwhp / 486 rwtq. My 460 is in my jetboat but its now its a 521 stroker with tunnel ram , dual center squirt Holleys and more so comparing it wouldnt be accurate but it flywheel dynoed @ 741 hp and 686 tq. With more left on the table if I wanted with just a few changes. But its far more than enough in my boat as is
I'd like to see a late model truck 460 because the heads were very different and the exhausts were way better, but it takes completely different exhaust and intake manifolding. Pretty much no one makes an intake for a F3TE. You can use adapters from Price but otherwise you're stuck with the mamby EFI intake and\or a 4bbl adapter for that intake.
@Skip R In stock form pretty much, there aftermarket heads available for them now, and with a forged rotating assembly and the beefy blocks those use there is a whole lot of potential, especially nice having the mult port injection and electronic controlled ignition.
460 is one of the ultimate truck engine of all time especially going really crazy like building a monster truck engine that 460 can be bored and stroked way bigger than the 454 those 460s are true monsters
As a guy in his mid 60s I grew up with all the big hp big blocks,they all are great in their un-neutered pre-emission form.honest 500 hp so easily made with minor changes.its taken 50 yrs of modern tech to come close.
Thank you for this comparison! Whether they were the same or not I appreciate the concerted effort to try to be fair in the builds! This is also what I would have expected. The only surprise I had was that I would have expected the Ford to produce slightly more torque, but, overall I think it was a good comparison. Maybe the slightly lower friction from the rollers got a little more torque? No idea but thanks!
I loved this comparison. Although, in the future, I would like to see (if possible) a heads up comparison using the stock bore, similar aftermarket heads, the same cam, and the same intake...... with no additional alterations. I understand that you might be limited to what equipment you have to work with, and you might have limitations. But there is only one way to do a TRUE heads up comparison
Great video they honestly are pretty comparable im a ford guy so of course id go 460 but still very impressuve to see 2 different conpany designs and how close the power and their curves are
The big differentiator between stock block BBC vs BBF is when you start going for more displacement, the BBF's giant crank case, 10.300 deck height, and 4.900 bore spacing just allow for significantly more than the passenger car BBC's 9.800 deck height & 4.840 bore spacing. Off the shelf 557" budget strokers FTW, die grinder need not apply! I believe a stock 454 block is good for ~510"? Not exactly a small engine, but a difference of 45-50 cubes isn't small either. Of course, if you don't need 557", a BBC will be a little lighter and you'll have a MUCH larger parts selection of course(especially parts you may not think about - like headers, whether swap, long tube, turbo, that part sucks for BBFs lol just MUCH less choice). BBFs finally have a solid aftermarket with street parts and serious race parts, but the Chebys have everything in between.
I’d bet you can build a slightly more powerful Ford bc of that displacement difference than Chevy on the same budget now days. Not 10-20 years ago but today for sure. A 557 with blue thunder heads will likely out-compete any Chevy 514 stroker with solid heads on a similar budget
Here's one for you: 500 Caddy (4.3 bore, 4.304 stroke)....bore out .140 to 4.44 without fill.......300 to 4.6 with fill. Center bore spacing is 5 inches. Up the stroke to 4.6 inches, and you could have a 612 CID Caddy. Best part with the big Caddy.......only 60 pounds more than a Chevy 350. The one big downside of hopping up a big Caddy? Cost.
@@markdubois4882 'Cadillac'... The main issue is that you can't get heads that will compete with what is available for the more popular brands. Furthermore, what you *can* get, are extremely expensive. However, you can build a 540 with the stock components.
@@michaelangelo8001 The big Caddys take really well to boost. 5.5 pounds with a bone stock 500 with the large chamber heads pushed 447 HP and 625+ lb-ft torque. Up the boost to 9.9 pounds, and torque is 800+ at 3500. I bet it was over 1000 lb ft closer to 2500 rpm. HP was 542. Richard did this test a few months back.
A Ford 460 really wakes up with hydraulic roller cam. Adjustable valve geometry is not very conducive, but pedestals can take the abuse much better... this is what my seat dyno tells me, numbers would be interesting to see!
so now that we have so many good baseline dynos, how did Smokey Yunik make so much power with the vapor motor and can we apply it with our modern technology? Would his museum lend you that motor?
part of why he made that much power was it had a small turbo keeping positive pressure on the carb so the fuel would not boil in the float bowls. Its super easy to make a hot vapor engine with existing tech today, but with gasoline you will still need to get the fuel air mix over 450F to get it to vaporize. The components of gasoline have boiling points from 80F to 450F, and you need it all to vaporize. That will still require ceramic pistons and other high end parts. Smokey's later engine had three chambers where it heated the fuel air mix to get it all to vaporize. So how is it easy? Run it on ethanol. Heat the fuel over 200F in the EFI rails, under 60PSI it will not boil and vapor lock as boiling point rises with pressure, and drops with vacuum. You want the injectors farther up the intake runner, so the fuel has more time to vaporize, and it will also cool the intake charge making it more dense. A TBI system would work rather well, or simply place the injectors near the other end of the runner like on a 5.0 Ford or LS engine. They put the injector close to the valve to limit the time between when the injector fires and the plug fires, because gasoline likes to knock/pre ignite. Its also why they have gone to direct injection. Not only can you heat ethanol in the rails, you can run much higher static compression, which will also pick up power and mileage. Without gasoline added to it, you can run over 22:1 compression on ethanol. You do not want the heated fuel returning to the tank, so it has to be after the regulator. The 2004 and up LS EFI system has the regulator and return at the pump, so that would probably work better if you wanted to try this on a modern engine. Build a heater that fits in a radiator hose with a coil in it so you can pass fuel through to get it hot enough, then send it to the fuel rail. Heating the air before it goes through the throttle body helps as well, so does EGR, any extra heat to completely vaporize the fuel, and remember, ethanol cools tine intake charge as it vaporizes, so you still get a denser charge in the cylinder. I run all my ethanol fueled engines with a 190 to 210 thermostat, the hotter it is the more power and better mileage I get from them. I have a 2005 EFI system going on a 6.0 (with 706 heads and a mild drop in cam) in my 76 C10, with a 4L80 behind it. I plan to run it on ethanol and heat the fuel like this. Its all about surface area. A vapor has vastly more surface area than droplets in atomization. Think fog vs rain. When the fuel is fully vaporized it burns faster and more completely. A droplet only burns along the outside of it as the fuel within the droplet vaporizes at the edges, and gasoline doesn't do that very well. It takes a lot longer to burn so most of its energy goes to waste heat. Like more than 80% of its energy is just waste heat. You won't be able to run an engine like I am describing on gasoline, you will break stuff as it detonates itself to death. Its one or the other, when you run high compression and run everything hot gasoline will knock/ping, while ethanol allows you to drive around with 13:1+ and iron heads in a daily driver. I know, I do it. Other than the power output, which Richard and the Engine Masters guys have proven ethanol makes more power, especially under boost, this isn't something you can accurately test on the dyno. You can definitely see it in normal driving with a very high compression engine and heated/vapor fuel on ethanol.
Chevy guys will love chevys and ford guys will love chevys 😂 I know you put the corrections on the screen but that was a pretty good burn and I laughed. Even if it was on accident. Great content and it’s surprising how alike these engine combos were.
I Love both Ford's, My first Love and Chevy's, My second Love!! I started with Ford's, My Father and 2 Uncles worked at Ford Dealerships. I bought a Brand new Mustang GT 5.0 in 1983, but I ordered it so by the time it arrived I ended up with an '84. I graduated High School in 1980 at age 16. I was 22 years old and thought I was it with My Black on Black Mustang GT 302 V8 5 speed. Later when I was doing all My Mechanic Work I discovered how much Cheaper and easier Chevy's are to work on plus they're much easier to get parts for. Ford gives no thought on whether something's easy to work on. Chevy designs everything to be simple and easy to work on. Dodge goes out of their way to make things as hard as humanly possible to work on. Everything on a Dodge is Bass Ackwards, even the key goes in upside down. Damn Dog Pisses on the tire Sonofabitch won't crank. I've owned 4 Dodge V8's. 3 of them blew up at 80 something thousand miles, 1 made it to 92 thousand miles. Had a Ford last 380,000+ miles and was still running when I Junked it. Paid $200 for a G20 Chevy work van with a 350 V8 and it lasted 380 something thousand miles. Paid $700 for a 1 ton G30 8 lug Chevy work Van with a 350 4bolt main and drove it over 420,000 miles. I wish I'd kept it. Both Chevy Vans were still running when I Junked them!! God Bless Y'all. Jimmy in NC....
@@jamesreaves5534 I grew up working on other peoples' cars before I was old enough to drive. I learned quickly that Chevys were easy to work on, parts interchange was fantastic, cheap to get parts for, and easy to modify and make seriously quick street cars. What more could a gear head ask for? Plus there's very few engines that look better than a big block Chevy with aluminum heads and intake. Chevy knew how to style their engines to look as good as they ran. Stock Ford engines always looked like dog poo to me.
@@corvettejohn4507 My 1968 351 Cobra Jet holman-moody special I had in my 1984 Mustang GT which I purchased brand new looked great. It had a one-of-a-kind holman-moody intake it was a prototype probably the only one ever made. I ordered headers from Advanced Engineering West in California and they had removable collectors with four pipes across from one another instead of your standard two on top of two. The collectors had a y-shaped front portion that slid onto the pipes and then became round like a standard header would wear it hooks up to your exhaust. When you slid the collectors onto the Header pipes there were 2 tabs either side that you ran a bolt through locking the Headers and collectors together. These were really long headers and exited past the firewall of the car. I ordered a five core radiator from Webster racing radiators in New York. You really couldn't tell that it was a bigger motor because the Cobra Jet being a windsor as well as a 302 being a windsor they looked roughly the same although the 351 Cobra Jet was if memory serves me correctly an inch wider making it a 1/2") inch wider per side. This is negligible and you really couldn't tell that it was larger. The headers did make it look a little bigger in there because they were massive Racing headers, but they would have made the 302 look bigger as well they fit both 289-302 and 351. The 351 is the engine that Ford should have put in that car. It would have been able to outrun all others in that time. GM only had a 305 in their Camaros and Trans Am's. The 350 was in the Corvette, but the 351 would have outrun all of them. My 68 351 Cobra Jet holman-moody special had a reed racing cams flat tappet solid lifter 289 cam because they didn't have a lot of good 351 Windsor cams at the time. With this camshaft I had to wire it up using the 289 302 firing order. The 351 use a slightly different firing order. There's nothing like the sound of a flat tappet solid lifter cam under the hood, it's noisy and it just sounds fast. I am in agreeance with you there isn't much that looks better than a Chevy under the hood. They're much easier to work on and much cheaper too, as well as what you said. The parts have great interchangeability and are much easier to find if you're trying to find used parts. All the way around for a poor man the Chevy is the way to go oh, but you never forget your first love. To this day I'm still equally torn between Ford and Chevy but Chevy gets the nod especially if I have to work on it. If somebody else is doing the work I don't know. It's pretty much a toss-up at that point. My favorite car is still the Mustang and the 69 is my favorite of all. I think the 69 Mustang with the hood scoop and break scoops on both sides along with the spoiler and the Fastback make it the most beautiful muscle car ever built to me. They really are Sharp, both the Mach 1 and the Boss. I would love to own a 1969 Mustang with the 428 Cobra Jet or the 429 boss I couldn't decide between the two either would be fine with me.
@Yeah Right I am a ford man. I also have owned a few chevys back in the day. I am not saying the 454 is a bad motor. Especially the early 70's engines. LS6, & the LS5. In my opinion the 460 is a better engine. I have owned a few that went well past 200k without a problem.
@@zacharyreimer2777 The fact I know it to be true. You just can't handle the truth. I have owned both. Quite a few back in the day. Also worked on quite few 454's. You know. Valves & lifters, some push rods, & the occasional piston. Never had to do those things to any 460. Replaced carbs. Never liked the motorcraft 4VV CARBS. A voltage regulator now & then. Maybe a waterpumb here & there. If you had good luck with a 454 great. I never said I did not hate the 454. I said I prefer the 460. Plus other GM brands made better big blocks. You know Olds, & Buick 455's. Pontiac455. Cadillac 472&501. 430 wildcat.421 pontiac. And last but not least the chevy 427
Depending on what year ford you have between 69 and 90 cc chamber. Comparing edelbrocks best dual plane manifold to an intake worse than anything edelbrock makes is a bit rough. With a performer rpm, lunati cam made 280 360ft lbs to wheels through c6 and 9 inch. Within 50 miles engine got pulled for broken piston and rocker stud. I was a dumb kid in tech school
Really opens your eyes when for years all everyone said was the 460 was a boat anchor or a luxobarge motor and the bbc was a power monster. Now stick the same size roller cam and air gap intake on the 460 and see what it does!
@@corvettejohn4507 the Ford 10.5:1 was a guess as that’s the rated factory spec for a stock 460. If it had .060 overbore, there’s no telling what piston was used and how far below deck it was. I might have missed Richard going through and measuring actual volumes to get true compression however. 18 ci? Would you lose the roller cam and better intake for those couple cubes?
I always though it crazy that the 454 crank weighs about 60lbs, the 460 crankshaft weighs 86lbs, and for comparison, a stock 3.622 stroke LS crank weighs about 53lbs. *Big block POWA!*
Im not 100% on this so dont hold me to it but the fords crank is prob so heavy because i believe they use nodular iron i hope i spelled that right😂 but either way its suppossed to be really strong ik they use that in the small blocks not a 100% in the big blocls
@@adamdesjarlais8183 Um that’s laughable the stock crank on a 454 can handle up to 700 horsepower. If your building a motor and using the stock crank most likely your taking the motor to the machine shop to have the deck surfaced or zero’d, block cleaned, and fully balanced a big block crank can handle 700 horsepower if your motor is balanced and that’s “handling” 700 horsepower you could have more power but then it will get more “fragile”
I'm a Chevy guy but I have had a couple of 460s. My biggest issue is that if you want to put a big block Ford into something you gotta change mounts transmission and all kinds of shit. Chevy.... just the exhaust
Richard, good video. But why not make it a more a similar comparison? The Ford had 18 more cu in, 1 full point more compression, slightly ported heads, smaller cam.
Some people in here are saying the intake used on the Ford is junk,they don't respond well to that intake.If you took the other advantages way from the ford and then gave it a edelbrock intake,it would still be a monster.
Engines are just simple air pumps. There are oiling and other factors to consider. But in my opinion any Chevy guy claiming the 427 is better than the 454, should also think the 460 is better than the 427. Bore and stroke ratios are very close between . the two. but the Ford has 33 more cubes.
69 460 . Port the Heads. Blueprint and Balance , put some hardend valve seats on exhaust side, SCJ Crank and A Nice Holley . All You'll need to get the job done.
That quick still shot of the 460 with the heads off,,,,,,,, I didn't think the early 460's with 10.5 to 1 compression had that much of a dish in the pistons... (Edit) I think now I know why I was confused,, I was visualizing the pistons in my 77' 460 and they had such a HUGE dish that it made me think that the earlier ones must have been flat tops, but I don't think they ever were...
@@cammontreuil7509 most of the 460s were truck motors with a non emissions cam and gear and huge non egr scj cast intake . The flat tops and larger carburetor really made a difference on the jet boats and light stern drive apps. That's a score if you find a good one
Personally. I would love to have a 454 big block Chevy and a 440 big block Chrysler But I can respect different ways of making power. We all love horse power after all.
Back in the day engine builders would recommend the 460 Ford if it was going to stay in stock configuration, and the big block Chevy if it was going to be modified.
Ya this video was interesting because I always heard ford 460 heads werent any good. "They don't flow" or whatever... I love these youtube guys putting all of those old ass drag strip projections in their place and killing the rumors.
@John Buck Let's put cubes and compression ratio at level playing fields and do it again with everything else the same. That basically shows who makes a higher flowing head. The rocker arms had oiling issues, but it's a simple fix any machine shop fixes out of the box unless you specifically ask them not to. After the 454, you had the 8.1(496) and the 502 crate. What did ford make to keep up with those? The triton v10? I know the 8.1 is an absolute legend in the oil fields... The 502 was a base for many successful bracket cars not wanting to deal with boost/timing timers.
@John Buck The pro stock NHRA engine is a chevy design. Top fuel is mopar heads, but the rest chevy design. Your last laguna seca win is 1970 in trans am, followed by datsun, chevy, chevy, chevy, chevy, jaguar. NASCAR is a chevy design all the way from SB1-present SB3... Lemans has been dominated by vettes. I googled "2021 24 Hours of Le Mans" wikipedia, search ford, nothing came up... If you meant LM GTE, check out the c6.r, c7.r, and c8.r history there in GT2 which is faster than GT1 cars (Pratt and miller)... Ford bailed in 2019 because they suck. Either you're unaware or an idiot. Maybe you have something in WEC or FIA with cosworth or some other obscure BS? Maybe try boat races or Baja (class 2?) or Crandon shortcourse? I'm sure it's a roush yates engine which is most assuredly, not a Ford design, but go on kiddo.
Richard, I noticed that you ran a mechanical pump on the Ford and an electric on the Chevy. Ever since I started messing with hot rods, I was told/read that an electric pump frees up a bunch of power. In your experience, does it really make much difference?
So much testing on the stroke vs. bore has been done, and yet there's still so little proof of an actual difference. I read an interesting article by David Reher a few years ago about that, and rod angle. As far as he was concerned, it was all B.S, and they at Reher-Morrison had never been able to prove any advantages. David Reher knows his stuff, and I've heard other bright minds like Todd Goodwin and Ron Potter say similar things.
@@AB-80X interesting to know. The only advantage I can see the shorter stroke having is higher rpm capability. Less piston speed at certain rpm. I'd personally limit a 454 to 6000 or so, where-as the 460 could probably live at 6500 or 6750 a tad easier. On paper or with piston velocity numbers anyway..
The 460 was never put in anything for performance. The performance 385 series engines were only 429 cubes (boss 429, 429cj and scj) Back in the day, guys like roush put 460 cranks in 429cj for more power. There was a 70 or 71 mercury with a 429cj in cars illustrated that started at 13.90’s and they got it into the mid 12’s then added a 460 crank and ran either a 12.00 or high 11’s i forget now. Not like 454 vettes and chevelles or 440 everything!
@@heathermiller2917 right, they were put into land yachts probably up until the 80 80s I think? Remember when everyone wanted a 426 or 427 something? Ah those were the days!👍🇺🇸
The Ford 460 was a beefed up Cleveland 351 with all its faults. IT was designed without though to performance as 90% of them went into trucks. Whereas the 396-427-454 was a sweet motor with canted valves and just loved to rev. But the 454 ended up in trucks too. The Chrysler 440 was similar. The 426H was the sweet (though big and heavy) queen of them all producing an easy 450-475 HP in standard configuration. If I was to pick the best one, it would be the Chevy 427.
@@madmod Which Ford 427? They made so many different 427/428/429s that I can't even remember how many different motors they had. I guess Ford operates on the principal of "Why have 1 good motor when you can have five different boat anchors parts won't interchange on."
@@corvettejohn4507 the ford 427, 428, and 429 are all completely different engines lol. The 385 series was for working, the 428 was for top trim full size sedans, the 427 existed soley for performance and swamped the 427 Chevies in most forms of on and off road racing.
@@corvettejohn4507 On paper the canted valve chevy heads boast better flow and should perform better but its pretty hard to argue with the high Riser or tunnel port 427 ford engines which can sneeze out 600fwhp on mostly stock parts.
@@madmod I'm not sure how streetable a tunnel port 427 is. Those ports are huge and port velocity is low. I imagine driving it on the street would suck. Which is why Ford and Pontiac only put those on race motors.
I have a Ford 460 Marine engine in my 79 Spectra and I'm trying to make a little bit more power.. what is the best drop in camshaft to run on this engine I do have d3ve-a2a heads.. an all I wanna do is buy a kit for it. that has a camshaft lifters an timing chain.. this will be my first v8 motor build. I need help soo bad 😞😞😞 I don't want to mess anything up.
@@jamesmiddleton5304 I used to have my own business. I specialized rebuilding Ford engines. I pulled a 460 out of a 74 wagon with the towing package. It had the PI engine. I remember having to order special parts for it. I remember it having the huge spread bore carb. I would bet you had same engine. They are rare.
You can build a 460 farther. Up to a 557. Which means its hands down way better than the chevy. It also eats a 250 shot of nitrous on a stock block which the chevys dont lol
playing the "IF" game? well ok, IF the Ford were 28 years newer 1968 vs 1996 perhaps those issues wouldn't be much different. Both are big, both will thump big power if built to do so.
@@ryanroberts1104 Got your notification for your comment. It took 20 seconds to click on your channel to see the video of the truck in the quarry. No time or effort... Not sure why you deleted your original comment.
69 Lincoln MKIII 460 was rated 365 hp 500 tq, the 429 was rated at the 485 tq, these 460s are a great base to start with for sure but the C8/C9/D0VE Heads flow 265/135 at .500 lift and the cam is under that a bit (Kinda sad the 302 Gt40p heads actually outflow these on the exhaust side )
For Junkyard hunting look for a 93-97 460 (15cc 1.77 compression height pistons), use 75cc heads, 023x4.4 head gaskets which gives you a nice 045 quench and 10.32 to 1 compression, add the cam and carbureted intake of your choice and you have pure Junkyard Gold
Man I can’t wait to do my 460 forged rods stock pistons with ring gap Edelbrock performer intake or weiand stealth and a custom comp cam and twin turbos later on hope for 500 hp na
@@tuckercole1531 Fords biggest gas engine at the time v. Chevy's biggest gas engine at the time... sounds fair to me, and I'm a Ford guy. For comparisons sake of course. I don't think Richard has room for any more engines right now anyway, but I'd love to see a 6.8 on the dyno.
@@ewetoobz3840 yeah I get where your coming from because they were the biggest engines at the time but I can already tell you the v10 will probably have more horsepower and the 496 will have more torque.
You can do a butt dyno yourself with U-Haul trucks. Go rent a GMC JH 26' truck & one of the newer Ford JHs with the V10. If it's a decent running 8.1 & not all ragged out, you'll be amazed what it'll do, spin tires easy on gravel/sandy pavement. Ford is much more relaxed but steady power & gets 1.5-2 MPG better. Also never have to work on them, they just keep going & run smooth no matter how many miles. 8.1 is a hot-rod motor, 6.8 is a lifer motor. My service truck has it & is knocking on 300K, no leaks, no knocks, starts up every morning & I never touch it other than PM. I wanna see Holdener do a big bang with both & the Dodge V10 💥
What was the casting numbers on the 460 heads.. thats the KEY to the motor! D3VE heads were 95 cc... DOVE head was 77cc.. thats just 2 examples, there was many diff version head!
I'm not up to speed on the big block chevy stuff. Are the heads used on the chevy what they call "peanut port heads"? Or are the vortec heads better???
Well this should be a massacre, but Ford has surprised me in the past. Got my coffee, pain meds and settled down to watch another wonderful RH shootout. A great day already
Knowing how well the BBF responds to hyd roller cam, I am surprised to see stock (ish) profiles being so close to each other. I expected the bbc to be a bit stronger... As I run mostly hyd rollers in my BBFs, I can say they added lift and loss in resistance is worth 30-40 hp easily... But some equalizer came with the comp increase, the old school BBF running a point higher comp... Overall, very close power outputs with different approaches.
Not an apples to apples comparison and they were only close because the Ford had much more done to it. The Ford needed to be bored .060 over with higher compression pistons, ported heads and a cam swap just to keep up with a stock 454 with a cam swap. Not apples to apples at all. If the Ford was stock bore, compression and heads it wouldn't have even been close to the 454.
@@vandersgarage4682 Within 10 to 15hp in stock and slightly modified versions, virtually the same power chevy had the roller, ford had ancient heads. My opinion is unchanged
@@edpetrocelli2633 You're missing the point.....at no time in this testing was the 460 ever stock.....they bought it already bored and with higher compression pistons.
@Skip R where do you see a 2bbl 400 out torquing a 4bbl 460? 400 was under appreciated, but come on, ive ran both and the 400 is great to 4000 or so where the 460 will pull to almost 5000(both being stock) but the 460 seemed to have more grunt than the 400. Maybe it was my imagination because obviously a 460 is the beast but do you have any dyno runs or 1/4 mile passes to back up that claim?
In the late 70's we could only dream of the HP being pulled out of motors in general nowadays. Back then, Big Blocks were the shortest path to get higher HP and monster torque. Back then you didn't call a Ford, Chevy or Mopar Small Block a "Muscle Car" no matter how much HP they generated. Those were "Pony Cars". The moniker "Muscle Car" was reserved for the Big Block equipped street rods.
Yep, because both have basically the same cylinder head design. The Ford Cleveland and 385 series big block heads are canted valve semi-hemi's just like the Big Block Chevy's heads. The Mark IV big block Chevy introduced in 1965 was a fully production developed version of the 1963 Chevy MkII 427 Mystery Motor that ran in the 1963 Daytona 500. Ford protested to NASCAR that the Chevy motor was a ringer because it wasn't a production motor. Long story short, NASCAR told Chevy to sell one of the Mystery Motors to Ford since the rule book said the motors had to be available for sale to the public. So Chevy sold a Mystery Motor to one of the Ford NASCAR teams and they sent it up to Dearborn, MI where it was run on the dyno, taken apart, and examined. Five years later, Ford releases the 385 series big block (and Cleveland heads for the small block) who's head layout is extremely similar to the Chevy Mystery Motor and hence the Big Block Chevy. Not only do they share the canted valve semi-hemi combustion chamber, they also use the same rocker arm ratio and the rocker arms from a 429 or 460 BBF, or Cleveland SBF, will fit on a BBC. For years, if you wanted cheap roller fulcrum rocker arms for your Mark IV BBC, you just went to the Ford dealer and bought BOSS 302 rocker arms and slapped them on. Ford also used the same valve size on it's high performance 429's as Chevy's iron rectangle port heads, 2.19" intake and 1.72" exhaust. Now Chevy wasn't the first to offer canted valve heads for a V8, that distinction actually goes to the 1955 Plymouth Poly-spherical head motor sometimes called the Poly A. So Chrysler tried it first, then Chevy, then Ford. However, while Chevy and Ford used canted intake and exhaust valves, the Plymouth only had one canted valve, the intake valve IIRC. This was because the Plymouth used a rocker arm shaft.
Question: Why do magazine writers/internet gurus persist in comparing apples and oranges? Most, if not all, "comparison" tests fail to use equal parts. Like this test: vastly different intake manifolds, totally different cams (flat tappet vs. roller), early 460 vs. late 454 (which means different compression ratios and head designs), and the list goes on. It seems that the gurus don't care enough to create a level playing field. Instead, a good portion of the resulting articles are devoted to explaining/excusing all the differences in parts and procedures! In the real world, most of us follow the philosophy of "If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right!" Not so in the media world. If one engine has an Air Gap manifold, put an Air Gap on the other one! Roller cam in one, roller cam in the other, etc. Otherwise, comparison tests are a lot of hot air, designed just to create "content"!
Well I'm sure Richard would IF he were actually building both motors today specifically for this test. Instead, Richard is a recycler. He finds old tests he ran in the past, and says "Hey, these are somewhat similar, so I will compare these two unrelated tests done at different times, add a click bait title and pic, and make some "NEW" content to get views". Richard does more than just recycle engines at the scrap yard. And I don't mind. Recycling old paper is good for the environment and I learn something new with every apples vs. oranges video. It's certainly cheaper than me buying my own dyno.
I would like to see you make a video on the ford fe engine. Boosted and na, dirt cheap build, straifgt backyard style. No filed rings, no hokus pokus! Just raw.
