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Justice: What's The Right Thing To Do? Episode 08: "WHATS A FAIR START?" 

Harvard University
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ART ONE: WHATS A FAIR START?
Is it just to tax the rich to help the poor? John Rawls says we should answer this question by asking what principles you would choose to govern the distribution of income and wealth if you did not know who you were, whether you grew up in privilege or in poverty. Wouldnt you want an equal distribution of wealth, or one that maximally benefits whomever happens to be the least advantaged? After all, that might be you. Rawls argues that even meritocracy-a distributive system that rewards effort-doesnt go far enough in leveling the playing field because those who are naturally gifted will always get ahead. Furthermore, says Rawls, the naturally gifted cant claim much credit because their success often depends on factors as arbitrary as birth order. Sandel makes Rawlss point when he asks the students who were first born in their family to raise their hands.
PART TWO: WHAT DO WE DESERVE?
Professor Sandel recaps how income, wealth, and opportunities in life should be distributed, according to the three different theories raised so far in class. He summarizes libertarianism, the meritocratic system, and John Rawlss egalitarian theory. Sandel then launches a discussion of the fairness of pay differentials in modern society. He compares the salary of former Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day OConnor ($200,000) with the salary of televisions Judge Judy ($25 million). Sandel asks, is this fair? According to John Rawls, it is not. Rawls argues that an individuals personal success is often a function of morally arbitrary facts-luck, genes, and family circumstances-for which he or she can claim no credit. Those at the bottom are no less worthy simply because they werent born with the talents a particular society rewards, Rawls argues, and the only just way to deal with societys inequalities is for the naturally advantaged to share their wealth with those less fortunate.

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26 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 1,1 тыс.   
@Wesker10000
@Wesker10000 5 лет назад
It's really nice that such a wonderful lecture is available for anyone with an internet connection.
@teresaamanfu7408
@teresaamanfu7408 3 года назад
Imagine going to a college lecture where students clap at the end.
@elvisdouglas3581
@elvisdouglas3581 2 года назад
I agree and for the less fortunate to see that those above you are not necessarily smarter than you.
@user-ee1yy3jx7h
@user-ee1yy3jx7h 2 года назад
Great lectures until trying to fix the injustice from "nature" (God). Life is a gift from God. In Matthew 20:1 "The Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard" Jesus talks about the unfair gifts from God. May God bless American.
@Mohamed-bm6yk
@Mohamed-bm6yk 2 года назад
Internet connection could be a problem for some
@Wesker10000
@Wesker10000 2 года назад
@@andrewmolino5995 You should ask your school for your money back
@shivanibiswal3269
@shivanibiswal3269 5 лет назад
Rawls perspective really changed the way I thought about talent and merits .. the fact that society plays a huge role in determining the distribution of opportunities and wealth based on its requirements and can be variable to a large extent.. great lecture!
@markarmage3776
@markarmage3776 4 года назад
Rawls way is also highly hypocritical. How much money do you think he has given to the "less fortunate"? Big fat zero. It's easy arguing for fairness to take the moral high ground while actually doing none of it at all. Dangerous hypocrisy.
@4_free73
@4_free73 4 года назад
@@markarmage3776 if he hasn’t given some of his money to the poor then that’s not good, but let’s not use ad hominem here. His idea still may be a good one even if he doesn’t fully practice what he preaches. I don’t think that the argument of hypocrisy is enough to excuse his ideas. That’s like saying we should throw out the constitution and the Declaration of Independence, because they focus heavily on freedom and the founding fathers owned slaves.
@ASH-su6nb
@ASH-su6nb 3 года назад
@@markarmage3776 the hypocrisy of the person making a claim, doesn't make the claim any less true. There are some exception like if someone falsley claims to be a doctor and makes factual claims.
@turkeybobjr
@turkeybobjr 3 года назад
@@markarmage3776 Rawl's argument is also based on the presupposition that natural "unfairness" is inherently wrong and needs to be corrected. Why? Some people come from generational poverty. Some from generational wealth. It's a natural unfairness. But should we take generational wealth and redistribute it to those coming from generational poverty? What's "fair" about that? Why is it not better to establish a society where someone coming from generational poverty can begin establishing generational wealth knowing that it will be their great grandchildren who will truly get the benefits of their efforts? I think it's a commendable goal. The problem with equality of outcome is that it must be heavily regulated, it keeps anyone from being able to move ahead which is arguably a detriment to society as a whole, and is ultimately an unrealistic goal. Natural unfairness is natural, and the free market can create solutions to lessen that unfairness, but natural unfairness is not inherently "bad". It's just a natural outcome of a truly free society. I personally hold freedom at a higher importance than some unnatural, enforced "fairness", even though their are unfortunate outcomes in a free society.
@perspective500
@perspective500 2 года назад
In India Rawls' idea of justice scheme was employed by the Mandal commission much before they gained popularity in the west. It is fair to say that the experiment has not worked out as intended after 40 years of it's implementation. He raises interesting questions but his solutions assume too much and should not be seen as justified belief. Sadly they are too charming for the justice seeking younglings.
@brittrecruitment4415
@brittrecruitment4415 4 года назад
Absolutely brilliant that these lectures are freely available on line - if more Universities would do the same, the world would most certainly be a better place
@Wildrosesmyl
@Wildrosesmyl Год назад
😊😊
@ibrahimajani9667
@ibrahimajani9667 3 года назад
Man, this lecture hits hard.
@MashabaZA
@MashabaZA 3 года назад
I know which percent I came from.
@JorgeRamos-xw6dy
@JorgeRamos-xw6dy 3 года назад
Although I have a degree I most certainly was never exposed to such wonderful lectures. I have now watch professors from Princeton (Physics, Mathematics), Berkely (Biology & Biochemestry), MIT (Mathematics), Harvard (Phylosophy and debates) I so wish these videos were available when I attended school. I'm convinced that someone out there is getting a top notch education strictly by watching videos.
@ergker2243
@ergker2243 3 года назад
Yes
@tayabaashfaq9540
@tayabaashfaq9540 2 года назад
@Jorge Ramos can you help me find other such playlists ? (of any topics you mentioned ) thanks
@sleepyboi1964
@sleepyboi1964 2 года назад
@@tayabaashfaq9540 mitopencourseware
@douglasbaraza4484
@douglasbaraza4484 2 года назад
Me here.
@JorgeRamos-xw6dy
@JorgeRamos-xw6dy 2 года назад
@@tayabaashfaq9540 My apologies I just saw your message. Most top universities have lectures posted on RU-vid. Simply do a search on RU-vid/university and courses will pop-up. Good luck!!!
@amitvikram619
@amitvikram619 6 лет назад
The lectures are lively, freaking awesome!! When you are lost in it you forget about time. These are thought-provoking and engaging.
@ricardobufo
@ricardobufo 3 года назад
Perhaps the most important of this series of incredible lectures. ALL politicians and leaders should be required to know this by heart.
@stretchopotomus2385
@stretchopotomus2385 5 лет назад
23:09 I didn't know what to expect. I knew by his face he was expecting something, but my jaw DROPPED.
@sheilabright2091
@sheilabright2091 3 года назад
I had heard it from Dr Sowell and his books.
@ricardito777
@ricardito777 8 лет назад
Incredible class. Mr. Sandel, your book on the moral limits of markets should be required reading in all economic and business degrees. I'm an economics grade student and I've recommended it to peers and professors.
@sandylai7340
@sandylai7340 3 года назад
My mail. ---- according to advisor(?) I. received confirmation of admissions to every single ivy league law school.....sandy lai
@alisonhall4403
@alisonhall4403 2 года назад
Well. If you believe in the best value you can give someone is money, you need to check your moral and intellectual capacity. He is NOT the problem here.
@new-hf5eb
@new-hf5eb Год назад
Times have changed for the better in those regards!!!
@minnyein9883
@minnyein9883 Год назад
။ာငုငငာင
@MrAdesw
@MrAdesw 11 лет назад
The video is part of a series of lectures, it is not a debate. He is taking single theories, one at a time, and basing his answers on that theory to help the students develop their understanding. He does the same thing when discussing libertarianism, utilitarianism and such like. It is not his own opinion or bias.
@randomstranger8081
@randomstranger8081 4 года назад
Of course 7years ago person
@suezsiren117
@suezsiren117 4 года назад
@@randomstranger8081 In other news, water is wet.
@randomstranger8081
@randomstranger8081 4 года назад
@@suezsiren117 😂😂😂😂😂😂
@mariaegonzalez4232
@mariaegonzalez4232 3 года назад
Hope your last words for all of your students will be prophetic for them to become the best of these society! Congratulations Professor! You are a fantastic teacher!
@jotagabe
@jotagabe 6 лет назад
Hey guys. Remember Michael Sandel made an entire book criticizing Rawls's theory of justice. So, the debate is not trying to indoctrinate anything as it may look like. Its get hotter because people often do not trust theories that say that they do not deserve the fruits of their efforts entirely. Sandel was simple showing Rawl's arguments over Mike.
@kandalaambarish4341
@kandalaambarish4341 4 года назад
what was his criticism?
@jotagabe
@jotagabe 4 года назад
@@kandalaambarish4341 you can check it out in his book " liberalism and limits of justice", i do not think i can sumarize it in a RU-vid coment. But he does not agree with Rawls "veil of ignorance" mental experiment. For Sandel moral and justice comes out with democratic debate and political open discussions, not from an atomic mental experiment. For deeper aproach you can see Rainer Forst book "context of justice". I hope i helped :)
@pacajalbert9018
@pacajalbert9018 3 года назад
Dnes 2020 budú podať všetci generáli štáty Neviem komu v hlave zas chce kupovať vojenské lietadla nad morne a komu sa chce plávať ktorým generálom mimo BA strato sféru
@alexgarcia977
@alexgarcia977 3 года назад
Bro respect for Gabriel for answering a comment after 2 years of his first post. I’m a conservative and I do like Sandel, just how there is diversity of thoughts and ideas I may have my own opinions and I have very contradictory ideas from John Rawls ideas
@alexgarcia977
@alexgarcia977 3 года назад
@howzbyu1 it’s a bit objective to say that because I have some form of criticism of Sandel must have any influence on my political ideology
@eunoia432
@eunoia432 3 года назад
Prof. Sandel makes art out of this classroom, amazingly well-done from an educative standpoint...
@feliciacovington699
@feliciacovington699 8 лет назад
John Rawls idea of whether are or not effort is worth more than social status was interesting. It gives one something to deliberate on.
@wellington1820
@wellington1820 4 года назад
50:00 the faces of all... "first born" make my day. I am still studying Rawls, but it is already one of the best theories I have found. .............
@MeetRayka
@MeetRayka 2 года назад
Watching, absorbing & understanding. It takes an effort to even understand each sentence in these lectures but it is worth it.
@thegoonist
@thegoonist 6 лет назад
one of the best lectures in this series. most relevant.
@shizhengiso
@shizhengiso 5 лет назад
The look on their faces their 'legitimate' expectations and 'efforts' slowly shatters 😅
@IronDogger
@IronDogger 4 года назад
This lecture should be highlighted for our country right now as we try to determine a way forward out of this global pandemic. An informed public is necessary for a solid solution forward. Education system has done our country harm by politicizing our education. We would’ve benefited far more from an educated population over an egotistical consumer driven society.
@braveknight283
@braveknight283 7 лет назад
Sandel is surgical. Mike started out so optimistic.
@arturostevens3
@arturostevens3 2 года назад
I was fortunate to have a similarly great professor, even more than one, but I have learned to appreciate what I had as I get I older. In fact I have gone back to my notes. Sandel is marvelous. What a joy this is.
@charohampsch3840
@charohampsch3840 3 года назад
I love 💕😊 professor Michael Sandel , for taking the bell of ignorance , his teaching is brilliant, even those who are mentally challenged, can understand his teaching, he explained so clear and simple, i wish every teacher was like him, is true that loving law helps, we all are like that , if we like the subject matter we pay attention, because we find pasión on learning, thank you 💕😊 professor Michael Sandel, you are my hero who took the bell of ignorance away from me and help me be in the real world
@ASHTAPUTREONKARARUNPGP-Batch
@ASHTAPUTREONKARARUNPGP-Batch 2 года назад
This session has made me question so much of what I've believed in so far.
@firojmnalam6121
@firojmnalam6121 3 месяца назад
For Opportunity,converted into a Fact,is the taking hold on the simplest task at hand - and doing it to a finish in the best way you know how. It's picking up the pins of priceless Minutes that the other fellow passes heedlessly over. It's doing your work BETTER than you are paid for, and tackling bigger jobs than you may think you are capable of handling. Great is the rise of the man who makes an early friend of Opportunity and takes her with him through the paths of the common everyday?)❤❤❤❤
@1290DR
@1290DR 4 года назад
I think the core of the debate around min 20 to 24 (shortly before the break) is that we value results more than effort. If we would really be able to assess effort regardless of results equally the starting point and therefore location of the finish line wouldn''t matter anymore, still it would maybe prevent us as a society to raise to the top, so I think Rawls school of thought is persuasive also the way of distribution opens up a vast range of questions regarding justice again
@HisBelovedSon70x7
@HisBelovedSon70x7 2 года назад
Well said my friend, Thank you for taking the time to share your reflection!
@kyuenjin
@kyuenjin Год назад
What impresses me the most about this lecture, is how the professor has a slide for every point brought up by students. For example, the meritocracy debate. It's as if the lecturer has done this for long enough that he's seen everything the students will possibly come up with.
@yowspaghetti
@yowspaghetti 9 месяцев назад
exactly
@A01099003
@A01099003 8 лет назад
Wow this is deep i'm loving these debates! Maybe in another life i'll hit the socioeconomic jackpot and go to Harvard
@matthewjamesmjw4172
@matthewjamesmjw4172 8 лет назад
One of the things pointed out in this lecture is how about 75% of the students are first in birth order. Since he didn't clarify whether only children should raise their hand... this is actually below the average of first order and only children in America. In other words... they aren't disproportionately made up of first children.
@kyh6767
@kyh6767 7 лет назад
actually they are
@xoravar5155
@xoravar5155 7 лет назад
Brooke Bingham same here
@wasimiqbal9119
@wasimiqbal9119 7 лет назад
Brooke Bingham you're right its really awesome by speech.
@FrankEnanoza
@FrankEnanoza 7 лет назад
I know right! I have been watching this entire series since episode 1 and it is giving me ideas.
@harshavardhanteegala7554
@harshavardhanteegala7554 3 года назад
This man has answer for every question comes in his way
@ppcorreal
@ppcorreal 9 лет назад
I find myself actually clapping at the end of this magnificent lecture.
@macosbyanthony896
@macosbyanthony896 3 года назад
I many ways, I believe that what is fair is society coming together to share. Beside economics and sociocultural factors, some people are born with some physical disabilities that inhibit their abilities to progress. That is why the ultimate theory should be taking care of each other to be better off.
@theAraAra
@theAraAra 8 лет назад
There was always a thought in the back of my mind that Sandel looked disturbingly familiar. I just now realized why: he looks like a younger Tywin Lannister!
@samekko_hope2718
@samekko_hope2718 4 года назад
Thank you my man for hitting me with an awhhhhhh moment.
@rivenmain2175
@rivenmain2175 4 года назад
sheldon
@GirishShankar7
@GirishShankar7 4 года назад
Can't unsee it now.
@omgitznessa101
@omgitznessa101 3 года назад
Tom Virtue
@vidpid2113
@vidpid2113 3 года назад
Haha... Nooooo.. I kinda have crush on Sandel..
@danilabezmenov3489
@danilabezmenov3489 Год назад
Rawls ideas are appealing, but those of us who grew up in Eastern Europe have first hand experience of what that looks like in practice. Prof SandeI brushes off the concern about incentives, with kind of "it is just a technical detail" response, but if you look at human history as an experimental ground you will find evidence that doesn't match that easiness. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" was a very often used motto in USSR, but the reality was that economy productiveness was extremely low and everyone was very poor by any reasonable standard except for bureaucratic elites. There are many other examples of failures and none of successful implementation of those principles at least to my knowledge. I would be grateful if someone named a prosperous society based on Rawls principles.
@ГеннадийОсетров
@ГеннадийОсетров 5 месяцев назад
I don't think they strictly adhered to this principle in USSR. Soviet Union declared a lot of good principles but rarely sticked to them. Maybe it was a poor implementation of good ideas(or at least ideas which seem good) or in principle those ideas were not viable though the mere failure of Soviet Union doesn't prove it. Moreover I don't see that Rawls suggests to take everything away and divide it(soviet style). What he is saying seems to be very similar to social inclined systems in Western European countries like Germany or Sweden. They have a progressive tax scale and the taxes then redistributed to benefit those less fortunate. The incentive to be productive is still there because the taxation won't take away all the increase(a significant portion though). That could be an example of [at least partial] implementation of these ideas.
@jpgsmckh
@jpgsmckh 9 лет назад
Mike smiled a victory smile at 15:15, before he knew his ass would be handed to him later on :) . Especially when prof Michael Sandel had a show of hands to see who were the first born. Mike raised his hand and realized that the so called individual effort he did to get to Harvard, although commendable, was not his sole responsibility. There are innumerable factors that contribute to your success and many are not your doing. Hence solely merit base societies failed to recognize that most people don't get the same starting point of support.
@nunomc2815
@nunomc2815 9 лет назад
(y)
@Broadsmile1987
@Broadsmile1987 7 лет назад
Sorry for being an archeologist, but the problem I see there is that a correlation is being shown between being first-born and getting to Harvard on that particular lecture. You would need to prove that this also shows a correlation to being able to put more effort, a correlation to be able to achieve success (maybe their younger brothers and sisters ended even better?), and that someone who puts more effort into his life and achieves success is actually happier, or otherwise rewarded better than someone who lived a simply life with simple, low rewards. So let's say I'm a younger brother of a Harvard graduate and somehow it made me not go to Harvard, not learn a lot, but I still had a lot of fun in my life, have a loving wife and children and I regret nothing and I wouldn't want to trade places with my brother. Or let's say I'm a younger child, so parents took more care into raising me. They didn't want to repeat any mistakes, they always protected me in an argument against my brother, because I'm younger and need more care etc. In the end I am spoiled, I have everything I want, I become lazy and careless. So I don't care a lot about education and at the point I could try to get to Harvard, even if I wanted to, it would already be too late, because I'm too stupid. So what I want to present here is, should a society tax a man of success, even if his head-start wasn't a genetic advantage, wasn't money, but paradoxically it was harsh circumstances that hardened him up and made him put a lot of effort into fulfilling his ambitions by sacrificing his youth, while someone who had great childhood, became spoiled, when being a teenage had a lot of fun, should be considered someone who had a bad start, because by actually giving him everything he wanted, he wasn't incentivized to put any effort to life, so he ended in a worse situation than a person that worked hard? Both situations don't present what's actually happening, it's just a thought experiment. I think meritocracy is cool, but once you start arguing that even those that put more effort into life in order to achieve something, put the effort because of the particular start they got, you're stepping into the slippery slope of determinism, where we don't have a free will, because everything we do is an effect of what happened before.
@saulkmh738
@saulkmh738 7 лет назад
that mike dude is such an archetype
@MikkoHaavisto1
@MikkoHaavisto1 7 лет назад
Being first-born showed nothing. But the truth is that you don't "choose" anything in a fundamental sense. Your body is made of fundamental particles, which behave according to the laws of physics. You couldn't have done/thought/wanted otherwise than you did. You didn't choose any of the facts about your environment and genes. If you had the exact same genes and environment as a serial killer, you would be him commit the same crimes.
@Still_who_Iam
@Still_who_Iam 5 лет назад
@@MikkoHaavisto1 that's actually not true... loads of people are born psychopaths and loads of people are born psychopaths into shitty environmental situations... and yet there are extremely few active serial killers every year... also not to mention that your running into a fundamental flaw in using a serial killer... your using a person who's mental status is typically extremely rare and that has a predisposition toward inability to control impulse... so yes with all those factors added in like the inability to control impulse along with the up bringing and the Gene's you are likely to achieve a similar result... however to apply that to someone without the predisposition to lack impulse control you run into the problem of free will and choice durring times of impulse
@gamuchirayimeki1325
@gamuchirayimeki1325 4 месяца назад
What a great lecture from a great man!
@nay4658
@nay4658 3 года назад
9:03 Guy thinks he is only in Harvard based on merit and intelligence. Then these kind of people goes on to be part of the ruling/executive minority... sad.
@alexnogueira9874
@alexnogueira9874 5 лет назад
Excellent debates, I'm from Brazil, I'm watching to learn English.
@paxdriver
@paxdriver 9 лет назад
Talk about "the veil of ignorance", effort != production... I could try really really hard to be a professional basketball player but not be good enough for people to pay to watch. Michael Jordan is a great example since he never really had to try as hard as everyone else to get good, so he says in his biography. He played because his brother liked it, and he was better at it naturally. He admits his fortune, being 6'6" from a family all under 6' tall. It should be noted that there's a huge difference between effort and product, and I would have liked to have seen the distinction made
@juliafrancone3116
@juliafrancone3116 4 года назад
He does address this distinction in the lecture, yes
@paxdriver
@paxdriver 4 года назад
@@juliafrancone3116 I must've missed it then lol
@hugomuller7332
@hugomuller7332 3 года назад
I agree! I would like to see a clear seperation beteenn effort and actual product of your work.
@sheilabright2091
@sheilabright2091 3 года назад
@@paxdriver it’s around 40 minutes in...
@sheilabright2091
@sheilabright2091 3 года назад
@@hugomuller7332 one example is the big, strong carpenter putting up 4 walls in a few hours and doesn’t break a sweat- and the weak, small carpenter taking 3 days to put up the walls.
@isentient666
@isentient666 Год назад
It would be awesome if I left the lecture room and my students clapped for me. Such an inspirational professor.
@EclecticSceptic
@EclecticSceptic 14 лет назад
It such a privilege for me to sit in my house in Ireland and watch this enlightening lecture from Harvard in America.
@AnasAlharbi.Stretford
@AnasAlharbi.Stretford 9 месяцев назад
I wonder where the students are now and what are they doing?
@HisBelovedSon70x7
@HisBelovedSon70x7 2 года назад
The quotation we find of John Rawis at 46:46 regarding entitlement vs. worthiness mimics King Solomon's observations, which reads I have seen something else under the sun: The race is not to the swift or the battle to the strong, nor does food come to the wise or wealth to the brilliant or favor to the learned; but time and chance happen to them all. Ecclesiastes 9:11
@Oddsox15
@Oddsox15 12 лет назад
crying girl at 43:26 . hearing wisdom so great it makes you emotional!! lets be honest, If i was lucky enough to be in professor Sandel's lectures i would be crying too.
@rajnishsharmasscacademygay9034
@rajnishsharmasscacademygay9034 2 года назад
Listening these lectures like our dreams come true 🙏🙏
@JavierPerez-fl8dx
@JavierPerez-fl8dx 8 лет назад
A truly amazing lecture
@mordecaiben-gurion1199
@mordecaiben-gurion1199 3 года назад
I have never felt knowledge so sweet.
@mattheww4019
@mattheww4019 3 года назад
so Michael remembers Marcus's name up front but doesn't remember Rahul's. Damn
@Raveid
@Raveid 2 года назад
lmfao...
@bellaveillard1595
@bellaveillard1595 2 года назад
Honestly lol
@ravindertalwar553
@ravindertalwar553 Год назад
FEELING BLESSED AND HUMBLED BY THE GRACE OF ALMIGHTY GOD 🙏🙏 AND EXPRESSING HEARTFELT GRATITUDE
@FIRSTGLADI8R
@FIRSTGLADI8R 14 лет назад
This is my favorite so far.
@joybulan1800
@joybulan1800 3 года назад
No Ads, Free to download, Wow Iam so Grateful! Thank you Harvard
@verbuccio
@verbuccio 11 лет назад
It's not about what works, it's about figuring out - what's just. And "THIS GUY" is helping YOU to understand what the greatest philosophers had come by, he never says they were right. So unless you have a better or more understandable way of exploring and explaining this material to the audience - please do, or send your CV to Harvard to apply for lecturing about justice.
@MahatMagandi93
@MahatMagandi93 9 месяцев назад
Who else became a Rawlsian through these lectures (+Sandel's books)?
@DouglasHPlumb
@DouglasHPlumb 5 лет назад
The problem that occurs when someone makes 25 million dollars in a year is that this can be used for political power. Just living in a 25 million dollar mansion harms no one but the power that comes from this wealth empowers one to assert their political power over others.
@ninirema4532
@ninirema4532 Год назад
Dear all great prof. very sweet good morning. It is clearing lecturing. Thank you very much
@Basta11
@Basta11 9 лет назад
Luck definitely has a lot to do with success - being born in the upper quartile, first born, healthy, athletic, smart, and so on. But I would argue that its not only luck or accident that people find success. A lot of people are born with all the advantages in life and yet they do not seize the opportunities of those gifts, and there are those that didn't have great backgrounds who were able to improve their station in life by hard work and some smarts. A corollary of this deterministic view point is that criminals in prison are not responsible for their actions that led them to that situation - it's my parents fault, we were poor, I got in with the wrong crowd, my teachers didn't care, nobody helped me, so on and so forth. In a way it is in conflict with Kant's philosophy of freedom - we have the freedom to choose our morality and our principles. Those correct morals and principles when lived with consistency do have consequences that enable people to achieve their goals. There are lazy talented rich kids who squander their lives, and there are average hardworking poor kids who carve their own path to success. The capacity for self-determination and inward drive are not arbitrarily assigned, it exist within each and every one of us. It's a choice.
@LudwigVonFriedman
@LudwigVonFriedman 9 лет назад
The problem is, for affluent/rich kids who do have the correct morals and principles.. their chances of failure are next to none. Given a sample size of the poor and underprivileged kids with a decent head on their shoulders and excellent morals and principles, there are certain limiting factors that will undoubtedly prevent them from achieving any real success, for example: insufficient family income for basic necessities, living in a less developed nation (remember, we're speaking on a global scale), deficient education systems, lack of healthcare etc etc.. I'm sure you understand.
@davidz6828
@davidz6828 9 лет назад
In my humble points of view, Rawls has made him clear that Justice is only about the design of system and administration. And the basis for Justice are clear: 1, we should be guaranteed to have the equal basic human rights; 2, difference principle. So criminals have impaired people's basic rights, which violates the first principle of Justice. Therefore, criminals are entitled to be punished. But, they are not moral desert to be criminals, as the fact that all the inner or outer environments are contingencies that are not decided by themselves. And I do not think it goes agains Kant's idea of freedom. We do have the freedom to choose to perform moral duty or our own desires. Still, those criminals who, apparently chose to perform their desires, are entitled to be punished, but not morally desert.
@MikkoHaavisto1
@MikkoHaavisto1 7 лет назад
Being first-born showed nothing. But the truth is that you don't "choose" anything in a fundamental sense. Your body is made of fundamental particles, which behave according to the laws of physics. You couldn't have done/thought/wanted otherwise than you did. You didn't choose any of the facts about your environment and genes. If you had the exact same genes and environment as a serial killer, you would be him commit the same crimes.
@itsalljustimages
@itsalljustimages 6 лет назад
Also, when the criminals do wrong doings to others, they are not respecting the victims freedom, which is in congruence with Kant's moral view (categorically wrong).
@gippo5971
@gippo5971 5 лет назад
You didn't understand Rawl's point of view. Being lazy is not a real choice, but more a natural inclination. And nobody proved Kant's autonomy prejudice.
@QuoVadisGates
@QuoVadisGates 5 лет назад
Taxation isn’t a form of theft, it’s a trade to operate in a society... and ensuring that the poor is taken care of well enough that they can continually support businesses and talents of the rich is the only way a circular society can work... what always comes as a trade for taxation is protection of the rich from the poor...
@milesclarke1614
@milesclarke1614 8 лет назад
I THINK THE MAJORITY WERE QUITE SHOCKED TO HEAR THAT THEY MAY NOT MERITED THEIR PLACE AT HARVARD. IT'S A TOUGH TALL FIRST TIME ROUND.
@Still_who_Iam
@Still_who_Iam 6 лет назад
It's also bullshit... which could explain the suprise they felt...
@wade2bosh
@wade2bosh 6 лет назад
its not bullshit
@Still_who_Iam
@Still_who_Iam 5 лет назад
@@wade2bosh but it is...
@RashidMBey
@RashidMBey 5 лет назад
@@Still_who_Iam What a compelling counterargument, Jacob.
@Still_who_Iam
@Still_who_Iam 5 лет назад
@@RashidMBey its neither an argument nor counterargument... for it to be a counter there would have to be one made in the first place... there isnt... for it to be an argument it would have to be me attempting to prove or disprove a point. I did neither. What I did was a statement.
@caphaddock1126
@caphaddock1126 Год назад
What an important class is the last one.Harvard University, thank you enormously for uploading publicly formative material for all.
@JamesDubreze
@JamesDubreze 11 лет назад
Effort - if you have a family who support you while you're unemployed you can choose to attend a university to further your occupation. Therefore, you are not starting at 0 someone help you get ahead. I call that the opportunity advantage -
@firojmnalam6121
@firojmnalam6121 Месяц назад
Penicillin is one of the earliest discovered and widely used antibiotic agents. It is derived from the penicillium mold. Antibiotics are natural substances that are released by bacteria and fungi into the environment. Penicillin was discovered by bacteriologist, Alexander FIROZ Fleming, while he was working at St. Mary's FIROZ Hospital in London in 1928.)❤❤❤❤❤.
@otamans
@otamans 6 лет назад
watching these episodes i learnt more things than in my University
@Mushrooms683
@Mushrooms683 10 месяцев назад
Even AS a consequentialist, I'm cool with this moral system because it's basically just him proposing exactly the consequentialist moral system I use but just saying that it's the one we'd all agree on if we weren't idiots.
@tedhoward2606
@tedhoward2606 8 лет назад
Some interesting aspects, but In considering justice - Why focus on winning races? Races are, by definition, one winner. Existence isn't like that. We do all exist. There does not need to be, one winner. Existence does not need to be a competition. The very notion of "winning" is anathema to justice in this sense. We can all freely enter into various sorts of races. Many of us do so in the full knowledge that we will never "win". It is our own personal performance, our out there doing it, and our personal improvement that interests us. In a world of infinite possibility, and finite people, we can all find things that interest us, are meaningful to us. What seems most important in terms of justice is having the resources, tools, and freedom to invest our existence in whatever way we responsibly choose. We are now in an age of exponentially expanding computation and automation. We are not short of energy - there is ample sunlight for every person on the planet to have what any westerner would consider a high basic standard of living. Beyond that basic, there need be no hard limit. Certainly limits on how much energy we can use on the planet, and if we go into space, the sun has enough energy for very person to have as much as humanity as a whole currently uses. That is not a practical limit at this time. We are not short of matter. We live on a massive ball of it, and another one orbits nearby. Most people only need a few tens of tons of mass to do all they reasonable want to do. Our current economic system does not deliver that sort of justice. We have the technology to easily deliver that sort of justice. Automation allows us to produce all that most people reasonably want, with no need to involve anyone else. That sort of production was never an option in our past. Our economic system cannot deal with that sort of universal abundance. Sandel's thinking is trapped inside a market capitalist box. Markets cannot give a positive value to universal abundance. Most people strongly value universal abundance (think of air - vital to all of us, universally abundant, zero market value). Automation allows us to produce a vast set of goods and services in the same sort of abundance as air. But markets will always work against such universal abundance, as it destroys market value. Hence we see an explosion of Intellectual Property (IP) laws - that serve no real purpose other than to maintain scarcity for the masses, and thereby deliver value to the few. Markets undoubtedly had utility in an age when most things were genuinely scarce. Automation and universal abundance changes everything.
@tedhoward2606
@tedhoward2606 8 лет назад
Kinda - I think we have the ability to influence our development through the exercise of free will, and at the same time I acknowledge the profound complexity (on many levels) of both our genetic and cultural heritages, and the vast array of subconscious processes required for consciousness to exist. So yes - choice and free will are important, and all human beings exist in complex realities with many different aspects, physical, biological, social, cultural, conceptual, strategic, .... Individuals are important, and no individual will survive for long without a social and technological context. So I don't really fit neatly in the existentialist camp, and I am perhaps closer to that camp than any other.
@PeaceFinder12
@PeaceFinder12 7 лет назад
Winning is like existing. Biologically speaking, the more we are alive, the more we are the winners. The more offspring we have who in turn have their offspring, the more, the winners we are. I do not think we can automate everything and then redistribute wealth so that everyone has what they can possibly need. Factories will just shutdown. CEOs might want to stop working. Society should reward those whose natural talents serve the society and in turn those who have those natural talents should help others. That is the right way to do things. I agree with John Rawls. You are right though. A society that which rewards all types of talents would be good as well. I think we do more or less that. And might be a good idea to improve on that.
@lucasdarianschwendlervieir3714
That is a good point - it questions whether societal life should be considered as a game, and in particular, a competitive game.
@smruthipk3247
@smruthipk3247 2 года назад
The ultimate reality on equality!
@Commandos12
@Commandos12 8 лет назад
this is all because people care about themselves more than other strangers.
@alanparker5966
@alanparker5966 8 лет назад
+Commandos12 The use of the word Strangers is interesting. How about 'others'?
@PeaceFinder12
@PeaceFinder12 7 лет назад
It might also be because of a self-sustaining society. A society where people care more about others than themselves might not be sustainable (since being selfish naturally gives the most rewards and people will inevitably start trying being selfish).
@luckspice
@luckspice 14 лет назад
@FutureHyperion You've just missed Rawls' whole point. From his perspective justice is fairness. What's the use of talking about justice if you wish merely to preserve an inegalitarian system that masquarades as a fair one. The point is not to get dummies into Harvard, but to acknowledge that getting into Harvard itself is not entirely a reflection of ones moral virtue, but a reflection of a host of circumstances that are arbitrary from a moral point of view.
@juliafrancone3116
@juliafrancone3116 4 года назад
A lot of people missed this point.
@andyx1205
@andyx1205 13 лет назад
@xXQuebecRebelXx If you enjoy Rawls' "A Theory of Justice," I'd also recommend Amartya Sen's "The Idea of Justice," which is a good addition to Rawls work. Amartya Sen is a nobel prize economist.
@NsaneNtheNbrane
@NsaneNtheNbrane 15 лет назад
I've already addressed this point in some of my original comments. I see no significant distinction between entitlement and desert. You still deserve to reap the benefits of your work, as long as it doesn't harm or take away from others. The idea that any inequality that results from natural disadvantages needs to be fixed is just an assumption, and any attempt by society to act on that assumption alone will cause more problems than it will solve.
@Giovanni1972
@Giovanni1972 15 лет назад
"If an inequality is amoral, then a decision to rectify that inequality is also amoral..." It doesn't logically follow. Yes, inequality is amoral (neither moral or immoral). However, its precisely what the institutions of society do about it that can be moral or immoral. So while one person may be gifted, it does not follow that he is morally entitled to be a billionaire, whereas the unlucky person by the accident of birth, starves. Of society allows this, then it is being unjust, immoral.
@Jon-cb9dt
@Jon-cb9dt 9 месяцев назад
I really can’t express in words how focused I am in the task asked of me, I can’t continue tell translating is satisfying
@ShaeMacMillan
@ShaeMacMillan 4 года назад
Sandel gives the best two burrrns ever!!! Don't argue with a philosopher, lol
@mehdibaghbadran3182
@mehdibaghbadran3182 3 года назад
Nothing happens naturally gifted, it’s your abilities, and your capability, your knowledge, experience, philosophy, morality, and lots more , to make it huge success
@Nextbigching
@Nextbigching 13 лет назад
I don't know if it's just me, but I think this is the best lecture so far of the first 8 episodes I've seen. My mind was blown! I look forward to episode 9. Question...what is it about being first born that gives people that edge, gives them that Type A personality? Is it a genetic thing, or an environmental thing, where the first born is naturally pushed harder by parents than the younger ones?
@krazymeanie
@krazymeanie Год назад
Old comment but i'd say its a combination of all those things you mentioned and more instead of a singular metric.
@hanskraut2018
@hanskraut2018 2 года назад
Now i understand why harward is so renound relly nice playlist so intellectually stimulating. Factor into the equasion does everyones effort come from dopamine? If not why do medication that increase dopamine (sadly often only in the shortterm) increase effort so much. And then - if that is the case - does that mean everyone has the exact same amount of dopamine? Or do they not but they could have if they (for example) all did a sertain behavioral rutine - if that is true is adhd, depression, shizoprenia, bipolar, post-traumatic-stresss disorder [and so on...] (as far as they might or might not affect dopamine) mean that all those people just did the wrong things? Why then according to the most cited researcher in the field do twin studys for adhd seem to not be able to find social factors that can account for the likelyhood of the disorder? Its relly interessting. BUT even if that is all true, a little bit injustice might be and probably is good because it is balanced. You cant just stop slavery fully so start small, AND of course things like: "If taxes are too high then we might lose productivity" have to be accountet for for sure! If we can choose between some being very rich or happy and many poor or unhappy and everyone being poor/unhappy we shurely should choose the first because its better than nothing. So i guess so far its about balance and smart solutions that get the most productivity, happyness, symbiotic and cooperative living. :) (Oh and i havent even started to dig deeper into the possible debths of human moral intuition that might come from extremly complex biological moulding over ~3.5 billion years of a extremly broad and increasingly complex biological evoutionary process. ^^)
@MignonetteVarisa
@MignonetteVarisa 13 лет назад
Please live and teach for a long time, I really would love to be your student some day
@jakecostanza802
@jakecostanza802 6 лет назад
This classes can only be possible in a materialistic society. We brainwashed ourselves to produce, produce, and produce. Merit and and effort are just some of the mental mechanisms that allow this to keep going on.
@stanmatlock4042
@stanmatlock4042 6 лет назад
2018 and I wanna know where mike is now? He challenges Rawls in the first quarter of the video.
@TheDerstine
@TheDerstine 5 месяцев назад
Mike!!😂 where are you now?!
@MrCally1
@MrCally1 13 лет назад
- Actually the real trick is to avoid dilemma's this great guys is talking about. - This is not always possible, but often it is. - The monetary system we live in with greedy bankers and corrupt politicians is are examples of situations we must avoid. - -0-
@romanp2520
@romanp2520 8 лет назад
"It's always so attractive to do good at other people's expense." - Milton Friedman
@006asyoulikeit.6
@006asyoulikeit.6 8 лет назад
Well said. lol
@jamesrawlings5781
@jamesrawlings5781 7 лет назад
"Some people are just cunts." - Grandma Rawlings.
6 лет назад
James Rawlings. Lmao...well played, sir.
@impolitikful
@impolitikful 6 лет назад
Roman P reality discredited Friedman
@luistirado6305
@luistirado6305 5 лет назад
"Its always so attractive to get rich at other peoples expense" -Karl Marx
@paulrevere27
@paulrevere27 5 лет назад
I am going through withdrawals. these videos keep me sane
@aldojackson3242
@aldojackson3242 7 лет назад
My favorite argument discussed in the lecture is the gambler's argument. So many people buy lottery tickets, invest in the stock market, or otherwise engage in more or less calculated risk, that many would be quite content, from behind the veil of ignorance, to increase the "pot" at stake, even at the cost of reducing equality, so long as the worse outcome available wasn't too horrible. Rawls' strongest claim is the practical "veil of ignorance"; the moralistic disapproval of lotteries and risky gambits seems much more dubious.
@PeaceFinder12
@PeaceFinder12 7 лет назад
The strongest claim that comes from the "veil of ignorance" is how the ones that are fortunate enough to get natural talents (that which the present type of society rewards) may benefit the less fortunate ones. Or even whether it will be right for those who are winning the most (even though they don't win it in a strictly moral way, i.e. based on luck) to help the ones that are are having difficulties?
@aldojackson3242
@aldojackson3242 7 лет назад
In ancient times, certain wolves supplicated humans, laying themselves at the feet of said humans. These animals are now known as dogs, and seem to have done quite well for themselves, by and large. Confucius discusses how everyone has a role to play in society, and that it is suitable to play your part well. This honor-based ethos described the rights and duties of all, and could thus be agreed upon in advance, from behind a veil of ignorance.
@ThatGuyWithHippyHair
@ThatGuyWithHippyHair 7 лет назад
Aldo Jackson It's that "so long as the worst outcome available wasn't too horrible" clause that's really important. Not to say you were suggesting otherwise, but the economic reality for many people around the world doesn't fit that mold - if it's possible to lift those in extreme poverty out of that poverty, which is rather horrible, through redistribution from the wealth of those who won the "lottery," that seems to me more just than the alternative of letting people take the results of the lottery they got. Even as someone who considers myself a utilitarian, I think it's more desirable and just to have a world in which everyone's utility is above a certain minimum, even if the total utility is lower than it would be in a less egalitarian society where many people live in misery.
@RM-ji6bf
@RM-ji6bf Год назад
This was a wonderful lecture. I learned a lot about utilitarianism, and you brought up great perspectives. Keeping the conversation with modern example’s such as Michael Jordan winning millions of dollars during his career and how it would differ based on the proposed theory. I agree with one of the students opinion on merit based work. He gave the example of students working hard to get into Harvard, yet it is very highly selective. What determines what “hard work is?” Does the student who is born into a family where they have to work at a young age to help support their family work less, even if his grades are average? Does the student have disadvantages because he uses his “extracurriculars” to help provide for his/her family instead of working on something that will help their resume? It is very difficult to have a system where you are disadvantaged from the start. But it is also hard to put a blame on those parents of those who themselves had to work hard in order to provide a platform for their children. Isn’t that the point? To have generational growth? To work hard, earn a career and have the generations to come a fighting chance? There are so many questions and avenues this conversation can take. For example, Shaquille O’neal mentioned in a talk show that he tells his children, “You aren’t rich, I am rich,” and makes their children earn their shot. Of course, in other clips, Shaq also is heard stating that he “spoils” his kids and gives them things he never had. That is a fear, for many parents for the new generations. Another hot topic of conversation are the celebrities kids getting movie roles because of their famous parents. I guess once you work hard, you earn relationships with powerful people, and can give back to the community to provide other opportunities. For example, Denzel Washington provided scholarships to art schools for students who are underserved, can get an opportunity to get their name out there. Once of which was Chadwick Boseman, the Black Panther, who benefited from such scholarship. I guess the point of this was to bring up examples of what is fair? I believe that each story should be individualized and people who accept students, or who are movie producers, should look at talent and perseverance to give equal opportunities. I am sure each one of those Harvard students have incredible stories of hard work and hardships they went through (aside from those perfect SAT scores).
@Secret_Moon
@Secret_Moon Год назад
They are all impossible questions to answer. I come from a socialist country and there was a time we tried the strict socialist doctrine, i.e. everyone was paid the same regardless of how much they worked. And exactly like the second Kate said, our economy nearly collapsed since no one wanted to work. We only recovered when our government decided to switch to a more open-market system. But if you look from the other direction, clearly there is also the problem of inequality. You cannot forbid parents from using their hard-earned money to get their children better food, better clothes, better education, etc., because that's one of the main reasons, if not the sole reason, parents are working hard. But then children of wealthy parents would get stronger, get better in knowledge, they would find better jobs, better income. And after several generations compounding, there would be a significant gap between the rich and the poor, which would just get wider over time. Then there is the question of whether it is ever practically possible to have true equality. Even the difference principle (i.e. allow people to gain from their fortune, but would tax away a proportional part of that) only try (not yet succeed, but try) to equalize people on terms of wealth, money. There are other benefits that some people are just lucky to gain while other cannot, for example time, knowledge, emotional enjoyment, intellectual development, justice, etc. A business man may earn well, but he is under constant stress and has no time to play with his children, while a farmer may just earn enough, but has a leisure life and better connection with his children. We happen to be able to watch this series, so our philosophical minds are elevated. But what about those who don't speak English? Those who don't have time to watch? What if, because of that, they will make worse decisions, like voting for the wrong party that goes against their interest? How do you equalize that? Then there is also the question of whether it is actually beneficial for everyone to chase after equality. You may spend a great deal of money to try to pull people with low capabilities up just for them to reach the average, or you can spend that money on elevating people with exceptional capabilities, who may have the potential to find a cheap way to cure cancer, to invent fusion reactors to achieve free energy for all, greatly benefiting society and especially the people at the bottom. Which way would be better for the poor?
@jackmcintire4136
@jackmcintire4136 7 лет назад
RIP Mike
@mcal02
@mcal02 11 лет назад
Thank God this is on the Internet, I slept through every one of my classes and have a final next week
@miskee11
@miskee11 11 лет назад
heh... I'm watching the eighth episode of this "show" today, and I realised they're all about an hour long. I've been watching these for roughly 7 hours in one sitting. cool.
@Giovanni1972
@Giovanni1972 15 лет назад
Actually I was saying that the need to rectify it, itself already presupposes a moral imperative, or why else the need to rectify it? Yes, I'm not talking about "rectifying" natural ability itself, since there is nothing to rectify with it. Its OK that some people are naturally gifted. All the better. What needs to be rectified is a system that doesn't allow everyone to benefit from those that happen to be lucky, resulting in extreme inequality (along with other regressive social factors).
@grimawormtongue1949
@grimawormtongue1949 9 лет назад
Personally, I think it's natural for people to feel that having certain favourable traits which lead to success actually confers desert. It's a bit of a social darwinist position.
@HoiMackoi
@HoiMackoi 9 лет назад
Matthew Pritchard Tho we are not referring to success here as an outcome but to the distribution of wealth in the eye of justice. Success when defined philosophically would have another intrinsic value and would be subjective from person to person.
@juliafrancone3116
@juliafrancone3116 4 года назад
Why do they MORALLY deserve it? What did they DO to deserve having more favorable traits? Why do they deserve it any more than someone would deserve to have won the lottery?
@kellylucero2220
@kellylucero2220 6 месяцев назад
None of these professors ever give up their positions to those that were less lucky than them. Got to love it
@GregTom2
@GregTom2 9 лет назад
My problem with equal opportunity is that it's not very efficient, or at least opens the door to ineffectiveness. In our post agricultural society, intelligence and hard-work are the two important traits. Intelligence is largelly genetic, and hard-workedness... also is. Studies of attention deficit suggest that there is a genetic element to that, and that people don't generally decide to work hard or to procrastinate. Work ethics can be taught to children, but that will depend on the familly they are born to. So in a way, it is also arbitrary to reward hard work. But it is necessairy. There's only so many intelligent people, and they... have to run everything. Make every decision, view every patient, make all the software, so on. It would be inefficient to let people of lesser intelligence work these jobs, as unfair as it is, and it would be inefficient to let them study these areas only for them to become useless after having spent years getting "equal opportunity education". We need to motivate the talented with incentives: prestige, wealth, power. It's the most efficient way to run society, both for them, and for the untalented.
@patsybarrett9780
@patsybarrett9780 8 лет назад
+GregTom2 it is a very good thing they cannot redistribute our intelligence. They have tried and failed with AA but they keep trying to dig up another way to "redistribute". lol
@shananagans5
@shananagans5 7 лет назад
I agree. That's also getting into Affirmative Action issues. I went to grad school with a woman that got in under AA. The first term she got a C & was placed on academic probation. Second term she was suspended over grades but was let back in after a threat of suing the school. Long story short, she spent tens of thousands in tuition & 4 years of her life & she was never able to pass the clinical licensing exam. That doesn't help anyone & I think that happens frequently. Entrance exams etc are highly predictive of success in any given program. We should strive to give everyone the opportunity to thrive but if we end up hurting as many as we help if we go beyond that.
@kalledakingas
@kalledakingas 6 лет назад
That does not collide with Rawls' theory of justice. He isn't saying that equal opporunity is the "only just thing". He just says that one should not feel entitled to the earnings of his/her genetic advantages, which is why there is a need for higher taxes on those who have prospered from their genetic advantages.
@deepdive1338
@deepdive1338 5 лет назад
GregTom2 ok but how exactly do you determine who is fit to succeed and who is not if equal opportunity isn't applied? Are you suggesting that we somehow find a way to test a child's genetic material from a young age and if the child doesn't have the genetics to succeed we just don't bother giving them education or teaching them hard work? Do you think if Bill Gates was born in Somalia during war he would be where he is today? Do you understand that there's kids who's parents pay thousands of dollars in ACT prep just so they can go to these "prestigious" colleges meanwhile some kids go to school struggling to survive? Point is when you say that equal opportunity should be discouraged , you are basically saying everybody should accept their social economic status because let's be honest, without public education most parents including mine wouldn't afford school and I would forever remain as dumb as I was born.
@juliafrancone3116
@juliafrancone3116 4 года назад
Right, and running the world this way would benefit even the least fortunate in society. So incentive is taken into account. But as soon as it no longer benefits the least fortunate, he would say it is unjust.
@benjaminguitisolis7448
@benjaminguitisolis7448 3 года назад
It's the best I've been seeing I learned in a lot thank you Mr. Sandra thank you
@spunjbob
@spunjbob 4 года назад
Mike is me, before watching this.
@hayseedfarmboy
@hayseedfarmboy 4 года назад
mike was right and Rawls would agree, the professor is corrupting Rawls work for some personal agenda
@Rudi361
@Rudi361 4 года назад
superdupper hayseedfarmboy No? Rawls explicitly criticized meritocracy in his book.
@hayseedfarmboy
@hayseedfarmboy 4 года назад
@@Rudi361 he speak out against merit badges such as phd's, and so on but if you have specific passage please enlighten me, though im sure he wouldnt agree with the more modern idea of meritocracy, which has been rewritten so as to dumb people down, in a real meritocracy the people at McDonalds would be making more than a Banker, thats definition im using
@markarmage3776
@markarmage3776 4 года назад
Veil of ignorance is an ignorant test. Because your envision of a perfect world has nothing to do with reality. In reality, people has to work harder to make wealth, and if you are in the "fortunate" ones who have capability to make astounding wealth, but that still requires tremendous work and efforts, would you be willing to give it all away based on the faulty premise that "everything is pre-determined"? No, people rejected that, Rawls is a hypocrite and he rejected it. It's easy to do good at the expense of others. Failing to accept imperfection in the world means you've already lost any sense of reality. Let it go, hypocrites.
@hayseedfarmboy
@hayseedfarmboy 4 года назад
@@markarmage3776 im not sure i get your point, though i'd say you hit a 100% accuracy with your statements, but don't understand how Rawls rejection of these concepts would make him a hypocrite, by my view rejecting these concepts gives a person an advantage overcoming social norms that trick people in to believing that are basically locked into a quality of life similar to what have seen on a regular basis , im actually very interested in your response, as what you said shows solid insight, but can't understand how you put the pieces together
@scottranck2225
@scottranck2225 2 года назад
The problem with this argument is just because you have a gift doesn't mean you have to develop it. You still have to work hard to get ahead. Someone in a lower class may be equally gifted and choose not to work, and they are still going to benefit.
@tcoan98
@tcoan98 2 года назад
What about someone in a higher class who is equally gifted and puts in equal effort, and also chooses not to work, who reaps more benefits because of their initial position? People in a lower class can definitely receive benefits, I think the idea of a 'lower class' implies the fact that they have to spend more time to benefit less.
@mehmetkemalkoksal2047
@mehmetkemalkoksal2047 8 лет назад
Rawls was a genius, but he had technical problems that can be very tough to implement in the lexical priority system. Not everything can be observed behind the veil of ignorance along with the original position.
@AyaHB-rz9mc
@AyaHB-rz9mc 8 лет назад
I agree, what if you are in the other side would u still have the same opinion.
@jacobcline6892
@jacobcline6892 6 лет назад
Can you provide an example?
@lakshamanannagalingam2534
@lakshamanannagalingam2534 2 года назад
@@jacobcline6892 l
@matthewdrew3841
@matthewdrew3841 5 лет назад
What a high level of thought. So why doesn't this video have at least 1 million in views?
@aznpwnerp
@aznpwnerp 10 лет назад
21:38 Dat Sandel lip bite
@TheBoofer331
@TheBoofer331 10 лет назад
While full equality may not be achievable, this doesn't mean there's no value in trying to achieve it anyway. We have come a long way, and optimistically, we can go farther..
@claudesigma3784
@claudesigma3784 5 лет назад
The communists tried.
@Arturohornamarquina
@Arturohornamarquina 10 лет назад
I'd have liked understanding this speech totally but my english level isn't so high, in spite of having studied so hard this language a long time ago. A shame.
@Uncouth
@Uncouth 5 лет назад
Well first of all.. why would you search out academic discussions before learning the basics? And.. The auto-generated captions work like a charm on this, try them!
@GurpalSingh03
@GurpalSingh03 3 года назад
It was a great couple of lecture, but it was mostly based on the premise that income is the sole measure of success. There can be abstract measures too such work satisfaction, honor and standing in society and complexity and skills required in the job that invokes interest and excitement. A SCOTUS judge is going to fare far better on such parameters when compared with judge Judy.
@HisBelovedSon70x7
@HisBelovedSon70x7 2 года назад
Fantastic point Gurpal! Economic success is only one measure, and a very imperfect one at that. For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul? Matthew 16:26
@TheGlobalwill
@TheGlobalwill 11 лет назад
Mike's (student) smirk at 15:09 is nauseating
@edwinamendelssohn5129
@edwinamendelssohn5129 Год назад
He's right.
@patrickalindsey
@patrickalindsey 12 лет назад
This lecture brings shines a bright light on our current Presidential candidates points of view here is the USA.
@theunknownchannel8166
@theunknownchannel8166 3 года назад
11 years ago so I want to know the percentage of the audience who graduated and got the job. Anyone here?
@kaverious
@kaverious 2 года назад
this was the best lecture in this series
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