imagine telling an epic speech about how your weapon was forged by the gods living in mt fuji, folded 10000 times and can slice through anything with a breeze just to get stabbed in the stomach 30 seconds later with a rapier
@@marckpalmer1750 Yes they are sharpened and can make fairly decent slashing weapons especially with the razor-like tip they are simply more refined than a katana. Japan never had enough Iron to experiment extensively in blade design. There is a saying in engineering that goes "An engineer knows he has reached the peak in his design not when there is nothing more to add but when there is nothing left to take away." A rapier is a blade that has had every bit of unneeded steel stripped from it. the Rapier has the advantage in both length and weight being both longer and lighter than the katana. It can move faster and at the same time strike further.
As a person who has studied kenjutsu in the past I will say rapiers are tricky to deal with when using a katana. That being said there are a couple of ways to do it, but you need to be either a little crazy or very good to pull them off. They also mostly involve out maneuvering the person with a rapier.
That is very true because a simple mistake can cost you your life. Though, a katana is a lot more dangerous than a rapier because it has a broader blade for defense, larger and very sharp edge for cutting, and its most dangerous ability is that you can change from a long distance sword stance to a short distance sword stance in less than a second, making it very or somewhat difficult for someone using a rapier to face against when the swordsman gets inside the length of the rapiers and past the main striking edge.
@@vilostrike2187 Actually, I've heard that in non armoured combat, the spanish rapier is the most lethal sword there is, because it has a long range and a speed that no other weapon can match, along with its good hand protection, also better than any other sword.
@@vilostrike2187 I want to clarify that I'm no expert, however. All I know comes from a bit of reading and listening to people much wiser than me. All I can tell you is that the rapier originated in the south of Europe, Spain and Italy, and those were places that had been at war pretty much every year from the Roman Empire to the American colonization. That means their swords had to adapt as quickly as possible whenever the military technology kept developing. I think all swords are the best within their own speciallity, but katanas were developed in an island without strong competition against foreign nations, and were supposed to fight against *other* katanas and finish the combat with a single hit of their incredibly sharp edge. Rapiers, on the other hand, weren't supposed to be the main weapon in the battlefield, but to be used in quick (and sometimes ambushed) combats, that very often took place in the streets, and had to respond in the most efficient way to wear down your opponet, be able to kill them as fast as possible, and allow you to use any trick that you can think of, even by unorthodox ways. I believe katanas hold a much bigger philisophical touch, while the rapier seems to be responding to mere desperation to survive. But I'd advise you to keep reading and learning on your own, of course.
He (Buzak) seemed to have more success when he started covering lines and using that to deflect / get behind the tip and get on the offensive. This showed what I think the katana is good for, delivering lots of cuts in tight movements, which could explain (among other factors) the point of the katana being so relatively short, it makes it easier to make these tight counter cuts and covers. I'm glad to see more people from other arts getting involved with HEMA clubs so we can see other methods used in non-compliant, unchoreographed training!
I wish the katana user was more skilled and didn’t overcommit but this displays the clear advantages of both. The rapier’s speed and range make it very difficult to defend against, but a flurry of katana strikes must be met with a perfect counter or the rapier wielder is done for
Miguel Moronta if anything it shows the advantage of the rapier to the katana. It’s much easier to parry or dodge a slash than dodge a thrust . In order for the katana to be useful he has to get in close, problem is the rapier keeps him at a distance. It’s not easier to get close to someone who wants to stab you.
Eric Nino I’m not denying that, I definitely believe the Rapier is overall better. I’m simply stating that one of them has an advantage. Just likely a 1-handed axe vs spear. Spears have an overwhelming advantage unless in grappling distance. 9/10, the spear will win. But you can’t deny that an axe is the best in that specific situation
The Adventure Gamer I can’t deny these things, I’m aware one is clearly better overall. I’m just saying that Katanas have a niche. Like I said in the other comment, let’s take a small axe vs spear. Spears are undeniably better overall. But in grappling distance, the axe has the upper hand. That’s all I’m saying, I just didn’t convey that well whatsoever. You were right to correct me.
@The Adventure Gamer i would argue that it wasn't technological stagnation, so much as resource starvation. They didn't have any iron, which makes it very hard to produce steel weapons. Their archery was amazing and unique and they had excellent and ahead-of-their-time strategies for incorporating arbalests and firearms into mixed late medieval style forces, but these things were so effective that they consolidated the whole nation politically and lead to a focus on soft power rather than military tech. Keeping in mind that when they turned back to martial production, in two generations they were able to defeat a major european power at sea, which is pretty crazy when you think about it.
The key is the guy with the Katana has to close the distance and get past the point of the rapier. He then holds a strong advantage. On the other hand the guy with the rapier needs better footwork on the retreat in order to maintain the distance advantage he holds when the guy with the Katana charges him. I think working on lunges and moving/attacking off line would also help the user of the rapier.
Otaku: The Katana is the perfect sword Reality: Edit: i know it depends on who's wealdding it, but I think reach advantage clearly makes the difference in almost every scenario, unless you're dealing with full-plate armor
This and the fact that Burak is not using his Tenouchi for counterattacks. When Nick tries to enter, Burak only deflects his rapier, but does not take advantage of that moment with Tenouchi (heavy stomp on the ground that allows to shorten distances and attack at the same time). Of course, to do is is VERY HARD, because of timing. But can still be done.
They're way too quick compared to katanas, look at the black dude, he didn't get a single hit through with his katana and the rapier guy hit him more than several times, too op.
I love these videos, there's so much to see. While I'm focusing on their feet, others see guard style and people in the background. When Red drops his guard allowing the rapier to be near the ground it's actually a Japanese tactic to draw the opponent in to attack... Reverse footing and slice at their wrists when they lung.
Lowering the sword as an invitation to the opponent is a widely used tactic across a huge number of styles, it can be very effective, but it also has another use here. In most rapier styles, the tactics are to control the centre line by keeping the tip forward and engaging or opposing the opponents blade. But, when you fight a sword with a sword handed grip, you cannot contorl the centre as you have a massive leverage disadvantage. The low guards stop the katana engaging and closing the distance, just as they would against a spear.
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing Thanks for the response! In hindsight I know I shouldn't have phrased it to be a Japanese only tactic, it's practiced everywhere. That's a bias I have to work around as the first real treatises on swordsmanship I read and put into practice were Japanese. And there was so much emphasis on that particular maneuver that it's hard to consider it now without thinking of Japan.
De hecho, no, los tercios en esa batalla usaron picas para ganarla. Todo el mundo habla de espadas, pero la lanza (en formacion, sobre todo) es la verdadera reina del campo de batalla.
@@dansvok3872 Exacto y es alli donde los japos cayeron en el juego de los tercios. Lo siento, pero las formaciones de lanzas niponas (en especial de piratas, lease delincuentes), nunca se iban a comparar jamas en la vida contra las de un ejercito profesional y bien equipado como eran los tercios. Las cosas como son, ademas la artilleria española era tremendamente superior. Puede hablarse mucho de espadas, pero en el contexto de una batalla antigua, estas eran mas bien secundarias, en la mayoria de los casos (salvo quizas con los romanos y los lansquenetes con sus bihander).
@@Bytheemperor la verdadera destreza no era solo con una ropera, tambien usaban una daga en la otra mano, si tu adversario solo tenía una espada la batalla ya estaba casi ganada.
I often use shorter weapons to fight longer ones and a few observations I made was that Burak started his engagements way too close. You need to control when the clash happens especially with a shorter blade. Timing is key. Wait, provoke, wait more if need be then strike in fast using your faster weapon to work in close. Sport fencers are spectacular people to have teach you distance and timing. They naturally make for good rapierists.
At the start he kept a better distance, but as the fight went on, I manipulated the distance to allow me to get closer, which is why he starts getting hit my lunges more from wide measure. That is in part what by bobbing back and forth is, combined with changes in guard height and reach, all a deception to get closer. Sport fencers are indeed great for developing distance and timing. We started the club with two great sport fencers, and spent years and years sparring with them before we ever taught new students. A lot of valuable experience.
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing its all about closing distance so as with boxing or sword fighting. if you can close the distance better then you win. because once you have closed the distance you have the advantage.
alone, the longsword beats it in my opinion. But in combination with a dagger or buckler, i think you're definitely right. Same goes for sidesword and backsword.
Benjamin Thibieroz In my experience, rapier whoops longsword’s ass just because of the versatility. So long as you can get around the blade, you have free reign to bury your sword hilt deep in their chest, lol.
@@aliteralflamingpileofgarba6236 well, i trust experience but i'm suprised. What would be prevent the logsword user to do exactly the same. Don't the two hands give him more leverage and power in the strike?
Benjamin Thibieroz The two hand certainly allow you gain the blade. Trying a blade seizure with a rapier would be a horrible idea. However, the rapier has much more agility, as it only needs one hand and a strong spring to land. Longsword requires essentially the entire body to begin a strike. Not to mention feints and disengages with a rapier are so much faster and harder to see. I won’t say that rapier is 100% superior or something else so intense, but in my personal experience, rapier’s versatility edges out longsword.
Reach is the number one advantage you can have in a duel and the Rapier provides just that. These guys are both doing a good job, assuming that neither one of them wants to get hit (as it would´ve been the case in any scenario outside of an action-movie). Thrusting weapons generally have a very small angle of motion, which doesn´t look very spectacular, yet small thrusting-wounds are not so small when they run through any of your internal organs.
Katana was a war weapon. It was intended to be used against multiple opponents, whether on foot or while riding an horse, usually as a secondary option when one lost a spear or when surrounded by enemies in close quarters. Rapier was designed specifically for one on one duels. Different applications, different design principles, different strengths and weaknesses.
Nope, not true. The rapier was far more universal than that, and fulfilled all the roles the katana did. In this particular video the rapier used is a civilian type as it is so long and narrow bladed, and so is facing a katana that was also carried for the same purpose in civilian life. In a military context the rapiers used were similar, but with shorter and broader blades. So this fight represents a civilian fight with the sorts of swords carried in that context. If you want to take it to a military context then the rapier would have to change to what was used there, and was highly successful as a sidearm in that sort of combat, which was often armoured. But in this video, the context is the same, self defence weapon for a civilian.
Not even correct about the katana. Tachi's were battlefield swords, katana's were adapted during peacetime, Essentially carried by government workers.(think of them like federal agents carrying handguns) Most sword styles that were developed after Togugawa took over are dueling styles.
What I got from this is if you have the rapier your best defense is offense. As long as you're on the attack, the samurai is kept off balance. Once the katana gets the rapier pointed vertically downward it's a wrap, though: the katana cuts through the sword and than goes in for the kill. I don't think a buckler helps much in that situation because the buckler arm will almost always be out of position. The katana swordsman is much better than I could ever be, but a faster wielder would have sidestepped the rapier's lunge and counterattacked while the rapier swordsman was still committed or pulling back. Easier said than done, though.
Dodging to the side is seen in circular fencing, so the rapier swordsman would also move sideways to prevent the katana swordsman from closing the distance.
I own a rapier and bought my buddy a Damascus steel katakana for his birthday since he's into Japanese culture. His is a full sized katakana, and my rapier has a full foot advantage in reach. And no, we never fought each other with those weapons. We didn't feel like blunting our perfectly lethal weapons. In case you were wondering...
While two handed grip results in power, the one-handed fencing style clearly has a reach advantage. Its not just the length of the blade, but the user's body is far back and the arm is outstretched. Its difficult for me to imagine how to close the distance. While the rapier can go for killing chest-blows, the katana user is forced to aim for the hand / arm instead (and its not like the rapier isn't allowed to go for the arm... its just easier to hit the large, immobile chest compared to the quickly moving hands of the opponent). From a pure theory-craft perspective, I would feel like the Katana-style combat would practically require taking advantage of your strength advantage and going for "guard crush" attacks. Hell, in saber fencing (even one handed), my friend would consistently go for guard crush because he knew he was slightly stronger than me. Swing as hard as you can, and the opponent's guard will move. Its not "elegant" and its kind of "anti-technique", I don't think that style of fighting is looked very positively upon. But brute force works damn it, even in saber fencing. The exchange at 2:39 shows the skill of the Rapier fencer. The first block is with the Rapier's strong part of the blade, and you can see that (thanks to leverage), even the one-handed Rapier was able to effectively block the strong two-handed swing from the Katana user. The 2nd swing was on the Rapier's weak part of the blade, and you can see the guard clearly getting crushed. However, the Rapier user literally dodges the blow with his body. The Rapier user issues the 3rd blow to the head, and wins the round. The Katana user was clearly hoping that the 2nd guard-crushing blow would finish the round. Success on guard crush, but failure on actually landing the blow. A lesser opponent would have failed to block the first attack (only possible due to skill: using the strong of the blade), and a lesser opponent would have ALSO failed to dodge the 2nd blow. But at the same time, it shows the advantage of "hanging back" with the European one-handed fencing style. The body is far enough back that it is difficult to land a decisive hit, even with guard-crushing two handed blows swinging at the body. Heh, well, I guess I don't really have a conclusion. It does seem like the Rapier has an advantage from this video alone however. But it might be due to the Rapier user's skill and strength. Its really hard to use one hand to stop a blow made with two hands, and the Rapier fencer has the skill AND strength to do it.
Ahh who won? Looked more like a lesson for a yelder rather than a weapon comparison. Cool video, would have liked to see a few matches not just the one?
I think it was at best of 3 times. Kataner touch first, but when he was more and more tired fencer get advantage and touch 2 times. Kataner admit defeat and duel is over. Great duel anyway
Reach is a massive factor. Additionally, though Burak has many years of Kenjutsu practice, he does not have anywhere near as much sparring practice as our instructors do. Simply down to the fact that in most Kenjutsu schools there is comparatively little to no sparring. The katana is going to have an especially hard time against the very long rapiers, as they truly are one of the ultimate unarmoured, one on one swords.
Academy of Historical Fencing Could you tell me his style? I agree with you on the factors you've made points on, but I don't really understand his mid stance. It seems rather odd to me, as if he was using a European longsword.
45in is such a long blade that this rapier only dubiously counts as a sidearm. Thibault would not approve. The katana in question would be much easier to wear and draw.
Thibault prefers a shorter sword, but that is merely a preference. 45" is an incredibly common length. Look at museums or auction catalogues for example. It is easy to wear, and still easy to draw with the two point low slung rapier belt. The very long rapiers were carried and worn in civilian life commonly. Watch the 21 foot draw video we did, in that we used a 42" bladed rapier and you can see how quick and easy it is to draw, 45 is not much different.
Even the length of the 42in rapier in your test seemed to be an issue, as you acknowledged there. And 45 inches *is* more than 42 inches. It's not just Thibault who recognized the problem of drawing longer blades; various 16th-century military manuals specified maximum blade lengths around 36-37 inches in order to facilitate quick drawing. (Thibault's recommended length was somewhat longer than this.) Personally, I'm 5'10". I can just barely manage a 45in blade under ideal circumstances, but shorter blades are much easier to draw. And of course extremely long rapier were in fashion rather briefly. I suspect this was in part because of the difficulty of wearing and drawing them. A 45in blade would be fine for a set duel and for honorable fights in general but could be a liability in an ambush situation. (Having a dagger would make this less of an issue.) Have you ever tried just wearing a 45in blade rapier in daily life? Even a 36in blade is plenty inconvenient, but a 45in one takes it to another level.
I've always wondered what a primarily cutting weapon eg. katana vs a primarily thrusting weapon eg. rapier would look like. thank you. this was educational and what ive been trying to figure out in my head for many years.
not really, its not that much about cut or thrust. the primary factor here is reach. take rapier vs naginata. youd see the naginata dominate as its reach is surperior
@@chroma6947 look whos never fought against a glaive. "dodging" lmfao what? playing too much darksouls or simply delusonal. the only way to dodge is back, eg getting out of range. or if your opponent doesnt know how to handle a glaive.
You can really see how good a rapier is in this video. I have always been a fan of a katana, but the amount of reach you have is considerably shorter with it.
That is a bit of a misconception unfortunately that has perpetuated by collectors who did not know better. Although rapier type weapons were used in armoured fighting (mostly partial rather than fully armoured), they were of much shorter and broader types than this. The rapier here is of a type carried in civilian life for self defence, duelling and brawling, and armour would present much more of a problem for it, as the cuts would become far less useful, the risk of the blade getting bound up and breaking during thrusts increases, and an armoured opponent can close on it with much more ease, as well as the fact that it's large length becomes cumbersome then at the closer distances. The very long and agile rapier blades of this sort are not at all suited to armoured combat.
Rapier is long, but soft. Katana is short, but sturdy. Rapier Strategy: Keep opponent at a distance with quick stabs. Katana Strategy: Close the distance quickly after a parry.
Does anyone know the lengths of these particular practice swords? The rapier looks a bit shorter than what I usually see. Difficult to judge though, the description states it is a composite piece designed to the preference of the fighter.
the rapier is designed for 1v1 dueling, absolutely insane weapon. Katana seems to be designed for warfare as a backup weapon or close combat where it should be pretty deadly
By the way guys this is more endorsed style katana work, the scabbard of the katana is no where in sight. The scabbard and drawing the sword in katana work seems mundane and an inconvenient way of housing a sword but it has a direct connection to the actual swords working principles. The drawing of the sword is the parry and the cut at the same time. This display of katana is very indirect and turns it into a game of tag. Katanas are a very direct weapon and the way they are used follows the yin yang patter which a frount guard doesn't allow. The drawing of the sword is the outside of the circle the cut is the half of the yin yang and the clearing motion is the other half with the return to the scabbard. You can reverse the order in any step to complete the diagram. You can also wield the sword doing the diagram over and over again. When you play the katana this way the opponents sword is being pushed down to your side on each side instead of clashing and blocking. Just a different angle of the same oyster. But the scabbard is crucial training in some sword arts for katana.
Okay i have returned after gaining better understanding. In this situation the rapier has an upper hand, many people don't realize its strength.(stopping power, cut and stab strength) its a good dueling weapon to the say the least. For those who say the Japanese sword practitioner is bad, well the thing is, there wasnt one way of using a katana, there also wasn't just one variation of a katana, its just that it was unfavourable for the katana since it wasn't specifically made for duels like this. Rapiers were however good for this, im not.too sure on its historical usage but i assume its something akin to a concealed carrier today, a weapon u carry around. Basically long story short, swords had different purposes when being made, it doesn't mean one is worse it just means that it's a normal sword since a sword can't be be best at everything.
i was highschool fencing champion. went on to spend 30 years in the Far East. Learnt Kendo under a 6th Dan teacher. Both are great fun. But I still don't know which would prevail. Rapier or Katana? I do remember once asking my kendo sensei "what the principle of defence is"? (In fencing it is forte against foible - as you all know ;)) - his answer? "There really isn't one. It's all about making the most perfect form strike with no thought of defence nor fear of death". Me, 20 years ago? Perplexed. Me now, after having lived in Japan? Now I get it. Japanese culture accepts that it is LIFE that is the complete illusion. "Death", the only certain thing. So you might as well make it a perfect one. Go watch the 9 hour YT Shogun series.
Lot of comments mention one of the things the katana wielder is doing wrong is using it left handed because there are no left handed techniques in actual historical katana fighting. Technically, that's true, but that's because there's no left handed techniques taught in any historical sword fighting, including HEMA. Over 90% of the population is right handed, so no one is wasting paper space in their manuals, something that was expensive back in the day, on teaching left handed fighters. So, if he fights better left handed, it's better for him to adjust his style as apposed to sticking strictly to historical references in order to do it the "proper" way. Also, for all you know, he could be pulling a Princess Bride and later reveal that he's not actually left handed.
A more interesting contest might be "Katana vs. Chinese sword-breaker (jian)" or "Katana vs. Rapier-and-parrying dagger" (either smooth-bladed or serrated sword-breaker).
@@e_nglitched_wolf9880 I would say the rapier, civilian weapon of the Renaissance, has nothing to do on the battlefield with knights that use late thirteen century armor, but hey, for honor has done worse in that matter
Is binding useless in sparring? I don't seem to see any attempts so it leaves me wondering, is it the skill or the weapons fault or is it just impossible?
Far from it, but the lack of it here is entirely a resuit of the weapons used. A rapier often seeks a bind, but when opposing a two handed sword, it has no way to gain leverage of them in a bind, and so you blade into their hands. Likewise the katana wants a bind to be able to close, whilst the rapier wants to avoid it happening at all costs. This is a great example of how typical methods of a weapon form adapt to face different weapons.
I’ve never been in a sword fight but I feel like when you get stabbed by the rapier, you could one arm slice down and cut off the rapier’s arm with the katana. Am I right? Now if the rapier also had a buckler it would be a different story.
He's holding the katana in front of himself like "this is the official katana stance, it will always win, if it does not, it is because I failed to strike the pose correctly". Look at the rapier, it's up, down, right, left, center... But that katana stayed high center the whole time...
Guy with the katana was very aggressive! From what I’ve seen, doesn’t look like a katana can effectively guard against rapier thrusts, seems like the best chance of getting a hit.
Personally, rapier is one of the best, if not the best, weapons. Unless u need gun, then go for a gun, but otherways... it can even challenge zweihander.
Maybe, but good look with fighting in room with that, or in a hall. Imo rapier is more balanced in that aspect. I dont say i dislike spears tho. Why not both? ^^
Can you guys spar with the samurais from Japan? Like the one cutting bb pellets. I'm curious if their style is really effective in real combat as I can't find any video of them doing sparring.
@@davidm8135 that's sad. But maybe just a duel. I mean everyone wants to know how a samurai VS a western style like a knight do in combat. I've seen these modern samurais do feats like cutting bbs but I'd like to ke to see how it fair in real combat against spears longs words axe etc.
@@studentdeljuego the guy who cut the bb isn't representative of the average samurai back in feudal Japan. He's an extremely gifted individual like Bruce Lee.
The way to hold and hold katana is the opposite. The posture is also wrong. I often see the opinion that katana is short, but in the first place, katana is made according to the height of us Japanese. The Japanese at that time were even smaller. When using a katana of this size as a weapon, it is usually unarmed and can cause deep scratches even with a light impact. It's a machine translation, so I'm sorry if the text is strange.
This doesn't really show which weapon is better or worse. They are both different swords with different purposes. The rapier was made for fencing and duels, while the katana was a secondary weapon for the battlefield.
It's an exhibition, not a scientific comparison, and doesn't pretend to be. BUT - the reason they are compared is because they were worn/carried for the same purpose - civilian wear and self defence, which is what this fight represents. Both were also used as sidearms in war, though the military rapiers were shorter and broader in blade. They achieve their results in different ways, but they usually fulfil the same role, which is why its interesting to compare.
Looks like if you were fighting a katana user it would be really great to have a dagger in your off-hand. Block the blade with the rapier and stab him in the gut with dagger when he comes in for the slash.
I dont know for how long the ''Katana guy'' is practicing but this aint even close to real katana sparring. I mean the way he stands and holds the sword, zero balance and possibility to strike quickly.
Ty, i learned a lot from this, i favor both these weapons and the styles of offense and defense were really interesting to watch when they are put up against eachother!
Well !! The Catana was the first weapon to get a fatal blow in this particular "fight" so it clearly won. That said, the continuing sparring proved that neither weapon is superior and it's down to fighter's skills and a bit of a luck as to who wins and at what cost that win comes. Love and respect both weapons by the way
The katana guy is very amateur in kenjutsu or does not know kenjutsu at all. It almost looks like he uses katana as a longsword which is totally wrong. On the other hand the rapier guy is quite skilled in rapier technique. The sparring is unfair.
Serb I agree. His stances seemed rather strange to me. If he was attempting to use chudan no kamae or seigan no kamae as a mid stance, he should really work on it. Because he seemed as if he thought he was using a European longsword.
So could a bearing sword, if sharpened. Not that you're wrong, but the cutting ability of a weapon doesn't dictate whether it is ceremonial, civilian or military.
I think mostly rapiers as far as one on one dueling is a little more developed in practice for that specific task so it’s superior in my eyes, when it comes to one on one fencing anyways.
As a katana user....someone asked me what is hate going up against in a *play* fight....it's a fencer...there so scary A good fencer is a force to be recon with.
No, it wasn’t. But the more important difference here is the length of the weapons. It becomes an even greater problem when you consider how little sparring Modern Eastern Sports actually do.
The guy using the katana needs to guard lower and make himself smaller. He needs to crouch down more and lunge at a higher point. The Spanish Rapier sword Has much more reach but if you get inside it's harder to be versatile with a longer sword
