Superb video, thanks! It's a pleasure to listen to all these engineering insights behind the product. I say it a lot online, but I really do believe that this is a golden age for HiFi.
Thanks for the very informative video! After watching your videos on the Reference 3 I was impressed and had to hear a pair in person. The audition went great and I’ve now got a pair of the Reference 3 Metas on order.
What an insane level of engineering and exceptionally presented. All the things he said are the exact same things us diy enthusiast are striving to achieve but ofc can't achieve to this level without such drivers. I have so many questions to ask him wish I was there.😔
I love hearing about the engineering behind the Kef speakers. Can you tell us a little about what electronics were used to power the speakers? Also, do you have any insights into how the Blades should be positioned?
Wow, so interesting to hear about all the engineering achievements and work spent on these small speaker drivers. To the eye they hardly look any different than the ones used in my ”ancient” LS50 mk1. This made my day 😊 Thanks for the sharing Terry 🙏🏻
While it may be difficult, could you speculate the % improvement between the reference series performance? I have a Kef Reference 1 and I found the R3 notably close, if not potentially better in some respects that may be due to improved geometry that the Reference 1 Meta would now adopt. Thanks!
KEF now against decopouling the front baffle ! ... Actually only becouse of KEF that is one of the main goals in my next DIY :) Anaway ... really impressed whit the idea of the driver suspension. Still my huble opinion - KEF have problem with bass. Is just not on the level of the mids and hights and this perfect coaxial drivers. Lowering the Xover Point is a good desigion.
Now you should analyze (and test if possible) the very new LS60, maybe a model even more important than the new Blade Meta. I'm looking forward to see your take on it here ;-)
@@PursuitPerfectSystem looking at black to suit the rest of the system. just waiting for a copy to reach the place where i buy my gear over in hull.nice to watch an over view from a technical perspective. i love knowing how things work,especially if im going to buy.so thanks terry for the time doing these vids..
Good tech, really impressive, but the prices they are asking for their top end speakers are not realistic if you ask me. So you are better off with the LS50 meta and R3 meta for example. Not as perfect, but you pay 20 % of the price and get 90 % of the quality of the made in England series.
I’m thinking of buying a set of KEF reference 3 to upgrade my focals, because they’re far too bright and fatiguing, and they miss definition on a few of the lowest bass notes, and lack richness in the higher bass notes (like the soaring end of thunderclap & Newman “something in the air”). I’ve got tiled floors, and concrete walls and ceiling. But the room is 30ft wide, by 17ft deep by 8.5ft high, and I’m currently just running a denon AVR 3700 (which I love), so am I just gonna run into the same problem?
🤗🤩🤩THANKS TERRY, VERY INTERESTING 🧐 AND HOPEFULLY YOU GET TO TAKE HOME 🏡 A PAIR FOR LISTENING 👂….ANYWAY IT IS A GREAT TIME TO BE ALIVE FOR AUDIOPHILES 😍😍😍
The Doppler effect is the compression or expression of sound waves as two objects move towards or away from each other. The distance a voice coil moves back and forth is not significant enough to have an effect on a soundwave reading a listers ear a few feet away. I think 🤔
From a purely technical point of view yes it does, but it doesn't seem to be as audible as one would normally think. Tannoy (the absolute worst offender in this regard) looked into this phenomenon back in the late 70's, and their testing revealed that as long as the cone wasn't moving TOO much, most listeners couldn't pick up on the effect. Tannoy's HPD series of drivers (mid 70's) had very soft suspensions with subsequenty high cone excursion, and when driven with heavy bass notes did start to audibly "smear" the higher frequencies. Over the years changes were made to their driver configurations, and current Tannoys typically use rather stiff suspensions, instead relying on larger enclosure volumes to get the same bass response as earlier models. Drawing from that that I've been playing around with some prototype 12" Eminence coax drivers for a couple of years now, and from my testing, 4-5mm of total cone movement doesn't seem to have much audible effect. (More than that and it starts to become audible though). Part of the reason for this may be as frequencies get higher, wavelength shrinks, (and more importantly) dispersion narrows, so the proportion of the high frequency wavefront that is being reflected off the moving waveguide (cone) in comparison the the fixed central waveguide is likely reduced as frequency rises. In regards to current KEF models, given that they cross over their mid bass drivers at 400Hz or higher in both the R and Reference series, I can't see there being a lot of cone movement and subsequent doppler distortion in these models at least.
@@gregmiller3630 Many thanks for getting back. I actually remember some discussions in the hi-fi press about the Tannoy drivers way back in the 70s and thinking that any doppler effect would only be noticeable with very specific kinds of music, if at all. I guess it might become more noticeable with the smaller, longer-throw bass drivers that tend to be used these days (8 inch drivers weren't regarded as very big in the 70s). I see your point, that at higher frequencies the on-axis sound it probably beaming off the driver with very little contribution from the wave-guide. Also, it looks as if at least part of the area surrounding the tweeter is fixed and doesn't move with the bass cone. That said, I don't believe for a moment that KEF would make a driver without having considered all of these things first. My guess is that there's an effect that you could probably measure, but that no-one could possibly hear. Fascinating subject, though. Thanks again.
@@kenutility8736 I've been a huge fan of point source drivers for quite a while now, and researching the concept has been a lot of fun for sure. From my experience the biggest issue with the coax concept seems to be related to phase alignment of the two drive components more than anything else. Because both the low and high frequency wavefronts are are mixing together almost on top of each other, the phase alignment has to be dead on or the system response quickly goes to hell. That is something that plagued Tannoy after they switched from Alnico magnets to Ferrite in the 3149 and similar drivers. Even though the new drivers were actually closer in time alignment, they were further off in phase alignment, and required a quasi time delay circuit to compensate. I've noticed with my drivers that just the slightest change in cap value alters the crossover "knee" enough to destroy either the on, or off axis response of the whole speaker. It me about took about a dozen different crossover configurations to get rid of a very strange lobing effect where the HF response would rise up then drastically drop off like a basketball bouncing across the floor. If I got rid of the lobing on axis, then it would pop up off axis, and if I really got it wrong, it would do it across the whole range. Given that the KEF tweeter is physically time aligned with the base of the mid driver cone, it may not be as pronounced as the Tannoy, Eminence, or Altec setup where the HF driver is a couple of inches behind the bass cone. Whatever it is, KEF seems to have gotten it right as I have friends with Q-950's and the original LS-50's, and both have consistently good axial response and tonal qualities. Cheers
They do look cool but with price of 28 000€ for pair they are more expencive then my car and i dont see point of getting in debt and paying off pair of speakers 5 to 10 years. Feel free to hate me
Velmir: No hate , We're in a golden age of hifi. Fantastic sound today can be had for a fraction of the price it cost years ago.. With the right combination of budget components ,quite incredible sound can be achieved ..In the same way a 10 yr old Mercedes would be a total "Pig" compared with a brand new car of any other brand ..
Dont forget they are also a huge company with many engineering experts working for them and have the benefits of economies of scale that Buchardt are unlikely to have at anything like KEF level and there is a huge amount to be said for that for a finished product.
Selling direct is not more progressive either its just different and doesnt gaurantee a better product. This was evident to me last year in one of my group tests the buchardt speaker performed at the same level as its price peers not above them. It also means you cant go into a dealer listen to 5 options and choose the best one lets not forget how important that process is
@@PursuitPerfectSystem I thought that dealer mark up Costs took money away from the companies development budget. Surely if more money went to the manufacturer rather than Mr middle man then both the makers and the consumer would be better off. Companies offering a test trial period at home is much better than listening in a shop. Just my thoughts 😁
@@slyfoxx8540 that is not what I said, i said the speaker performed at the same level as its price peers it wasn't a noticeable step up like you would expect from a speaker that is a level up or two like you would expect from spending more. That is not me saying its a bad speaker, its just others are as good. I think its impossible to know what companies put back into R&D but look at how many patents KEF have over the decades and how in depth their speaker white papers are. I think its fair to guess their R&D budget is decent and i know they have teams of specialist engineers working in specific fields of expertise. Smaller companies wont have that. Hence really you cannot simplify the situation to say a direct sale company is offering a better product. I am guessing you are thinking this because of John's video today. That wasnt really the point he was making. Also no not the S400 mk2 but it wouldn't matter what speaker it is they are all sold directly so same rule would apply.
Get real bro. You know the meta material tech will be useful in the future once the dome material is optimized to allow for lowering the crossover down toward 1.6khz this is the LSx all over again. The LSx was the only other speaker but the 300X/SE series that birthed them, from whence it inherited all its tech, the mains becoming the LS Series while the custom hulk of a center with its ruler flat on axis frequency response (which only makes sense for a single speaker playing mono directly on axis clear of any side walls). The LSx got the SST the sealed suspension system otherwise called the tweeter gap damper. This is so obviously why it sounded smoother more consistent etc and was more capable even at peak pressure just like the 3001SEs before it which can be maxed out to 150watts (don't do it it'd rated for 100, I just stress tested it) and it still managed to sound just as smooth and consistent while the egg series is known for bottoming out anywhere near peak volume and otherwise all kef Uni Qs prior to the 12th gen besides the 3 that had the seal had the same issue that you can tease out even more obviously if you pipe say the LS50s up past 90 percent where it'll begin sounding "shouty" as people have termed it or raspy which is EXACTLY what you'd expect would happen when air leaks from the gap between the tweeter and the woofer when the WOOFER IS THE WAVEGUIDE to the tweeter AND its own sound source. So air gasping from the hole you can literally see and shine a flash light suddenly being sealed as is now universal to all 12th gen Uni Qs would obviously be the reason why they all sound as impressive as the LSx did for the EXACT SAME REASON that was never mentioned. The LSx had the sealed suspension tech because it was the Pico Forte 3s rendered into a hifi form factor with its Amp and DAC and music integrity engine integrated to make the LSx essentially the 3001SEs active. Wanna hear proof? ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-lCdm2HVVP7s.html Which one do you think will sound shouty the LS50s or its prototype the 3001SEs when both have their own identical Amps and are both being gradually driven to max? Let's think this through here. One of them literally had a gap between the woofer and the tweeter. The other one doesn't. Wouldn't this make the answer obvious? And so of that's not obvious enough the 12th gen of Uni Qs now All have the same seal yet that just like when it was added to the LSx is never mentioned as a reason why it would be capable of sounding so smooth consistent etc. The sealed suspension gasket isn't only an air seal preventing chuffing from the woofer's inner rim which obstructs both the tweeter and the woofer of course, the seal is like a little surround gasket so also dampens the woofer from the inner rim jjst like the surround also dampens the woofer from the outer rim.
Hi Terry, I hope you will reply to my post. I have kef reference 5 (not meta), Hegel H30 in stereo, YBA signature 4 chassis from 2008, CD1 YBA double power unit, Aurender ACS100 and Chord Dave. My problem is that I have too much bass in my system. I am trying Hifistay ballerino 80 triple swing and Zensati Authentica speaker cables (my current cables are Gutwire Synchrony 2). It improved quite significantly but not enough to buy them. Normally, the pairing Kef-Hegel is a good match. I think my problem comes from the preamp. I tried the Hegel P30 but disliked it. Not involving at all, cold music. Would you have recommandations or advise ? Thank you in advance and sorry if my message does not go through the right channel.. Alex
KEF REF are very bassy speakers, you can go round and round in circles trying to fix too much bass problem by changing gear and you may never fix it if the problem is because of room acoustics which I bet it likely is, a much better approach is either change the port tubes from short to long that will reduce the speaker bass output or look into high quality DSP like Dirac Live and use the higher bass output to your advantage but manage it so its on point to how you want it.
Thank you for your reply. I am from France close to Luxembourg boarder. I know there is someone from Cinemotion in Lux expert in acoustics. The problem is that my system is in the living room. So my wife will not be happy if I put acoustics stuff on walls... would you have recommendations for speakers going along with the rest of my system ?
Excellently presented without BS a lot of technology, but there is no ideal speaker, even here not, the biggest problem with such a speaker is the movement of the midrange diaphragm, which greatly changes the operation and amplitude of the tweeter.
Sure enough, they did not. At that time Altec Lansing had coaxial designs with horn tweeters (so the tweeter magnet resided way behind the woofer magnet, somewhat similar to Tannoy). They did use waveguides directly in front of the tweeter diaphragm, leading into the horn throat, and at the horn mouth. But this is still very different from the tangerine waveguide in front of a directly radiating tweeter as used in the Uni-Q.
Great engineering too bad pricing is in the stratosphere! If they cut out the dealers they would be able to lower the price by 50%! Probably would be able to sell a lot more of their speakers
I dont know what makes you think that, no companies that sell direct do so at 50% of the retail value. That is a totally misunderstood situation of the industry. KEF sell direct already for some models but guess what its cheaper to buy the speakers from a dealer
Why would anyone spend over £20,000 on a pair of kef passive loudspeakers, when you can get better sound quality from some active ATC SCM ASL with extra low bass modules if needed, that have more inner detail and resolution and dynamics then any passive kefs loudspeakers. Also kef's loudspeakers do not sound as real as the ATC SCM ASL's
KEF FAN: "Why would you spend £15,000 on a pair of ATC SCM ASL speakers when for £2,500 more, you can buy a set of KEF Reference 5s?" Do you see how this works?
@@Demonator27 I've had kef's, not impressed with none of them one bit, they do not sound real, or a reality performance, and way behind the capability of performance of ATC SCM ASL. If you want to spend more money, listen also to a pair of Linn 350a, that outperform any kef for reality of sound quality, for inner detail with dynamics. Kef are just hifi, ATC and linn sound like the real thing.
@@ianjohnhorwood2605 some of us aren’t 60 years old and still have good hearing. We don’t need the brightness of ATC. Also, for older Kef fans, they’re married or have nice apartments and don’t want boxes.
The ATCs are great from the SCM7 all the way to the SCM150, but the look a bit outdated. Some would also argue that the sharp edges of the enclosure creates a lot of edge diffraction. I’d love ATC to be bolder and add a new model with smaller baffle, side woofers and maybe class d internal amplification.
@@danielhifi3147 absolute nonsense. I'm no where near 60 and have exceptional hearing and ATC are not bright at all. They are incredibly detailed and do not pollute the sound at all. Perhaps your hearing is on the dodgy side if you are only getting the highs!
The Rich won't buy em if they were 3,000 quid... not exclusive enough..I just sold a guitar for $15,000 . Strange as it sounds , couldn't get $8,000 6 mths prior.
