Ken Wilber: The Intellectual Dark Web, an Integral Conversation? 

Rebel Wisdom, thank you for what you do. Now, please get Wilber and Peterson in the same room.

So great to see Ken relatively healthy. I really am encouraged by this hybridization of Integral and IDW thinking. Frankly, I view this hybridization as providing the framework that could allow society to actually move forward out of the tribalism that has infected it... More please!

Thanks Ken, for returning to the conversation. We need you.

Integral Theory is a hugely valuable tool for sense-making; it's a framework, not an ideology.

Wilber is a great philosopher. I’m glad he’s adding to the conversation.

"Amber, you are. Not green. Regressed, you have." Master Wilber.

Schedule Ken and Jordan for a longformat conversation asap. If Jordan doesn’t know Wilbers material, give him time to get into it, including integral, before the talk. So good to see Wilber “back” sharing his knowledge and wisdom.

Wilber seems to be a very valuable voice to add to the IDW conversation. I hope to see more of him in the coming months. EDIT: Wow, believe it or not was asked to film Wilber in dialogue since this comment and am beginning to post it on our channel. I had no inkling of this happening when I left this comment. I also got to ask him a question which is posted now. I will be releasing a long form discussion between him and Tim Freke in the near future.

Waking up versus growing up : BRILLIANT!

I didn't know anything about Ken Wilber, It's clear he as lots to contribute to the conversation, have enjoyed watching the Interview where he expressed his views on Jordan Peterson, and this one is proving just as engaging and enlightening... Would love to see him and Peterson in a room, Rebel media is fast becoming one of my favoured channels for content.

This is what truth sounds like. Genius! And you can tell Wilber is really enjoying this. Look at the twinkle in his eyes.

Great material! there is one point though which is not touched as far as I can tell: IMHO big part in creating this "regressive, absolutistic left" is teaching kids and young adults "postmodern values" with no respect to which stage they are actually in terms of their development. As a result you get essentially Amber, ethnocenric individuals who accepted Green values in the same manner as their other accept religious commandments.

Jon haidt: the person that gets the most mentions from your guests who hasnt been one.

Thanks so much RW for producing this quality content

Having Ken on has been great. Some other guests it'd be neat to see on Rebel Wisdom (if possible) for various reasons would be Slavoj Zizek (especially in light of the upcoming Peterson interaction), Alexander Bard (thanks, Andrew Sweeny, for introducing me to him!) and 'Hanzi Freinacht' (despite/because of the fact he can sometimes rub the wrong way). Glad you guys have become the medium for the greater-greater conversation (ie. moving beyond the scope of, say, Rubin and Quillette). You're doing a really good job.

I’ve been part of the Integral community for quite a few years and was led to Rebel Wisdom from there. I’ve read all the comments below these two Ken Wilber videos and I have to hand it to the Rebel Wisdom crowd. It consists of mostly thoughtful comments with very few troll-like comments that are so typical these days of any video or article discussion occurring in the comments section. Bravo!

I've loved Ken Wilber's work since the 90's and I am loving Rebel Media content, you guys are spot on. Keep up the good work :)

Really enjoyed this and great to see Wilber content and some integral scaffolding on Rebel Wisdom.

Exceptional lucid and perfectly eloquent overview. Thanks Ken!

I've partly been thinking of Jordan Peterson as a warm-up act for Ken Wilber, preparing lots of people for an integral understanding. Seems like Rebel Wisdom thinks that too!

Very important to hear Ken speaking about our current time.

Those are great summaries Ken Wilber does. Very cool. Very refreshing!

Wilber is a voice I have missed due to his health issues. Glad to have him back in full voice.

Wow! The final words about spiritual paths 'waking up' and 'growing up'! Brilliant! Thank you Ken.

Very interesting way of thinking about these things, thanks for introducing me to Ken Wilber.

Good to see you back in action Ken!

What a treat to be able to hear from Wilber. I came across his book 20 years ago. About the same time read some Chardin - Noosephere.

I'm amazed and grateful for this wonderful conversation. The last part, when Wilber addresses the spiritual awakening and growth stages were extremely enlightening. It explains much of the shortcomings we find on spiritual leaders and communities. I used to read his books on the nineties, but wasn't really capable to appreciate it. I'm going to reread it.

Wilber is the essential philosopher of our time. He makes sense of what is a very confusing time in history.

It is so fulfilling to see this meta analysis. Something Peterson might not be able to do in this way because he has been sucked into it so much.

Can tell this will be a gem

Ken Wilber is the light 💡 hope, truth and wisdom in a sea of extreme intellectual personas

Fantastic to see these conversations emerging.

Thought provoking, very informative 👍 Thank you

Fantastic interview! We need KW right now.

I AM NEW TO KEN WILBER'S WORK AND I FIND IT COMPLETELY FASCINATING........

Thank you! I am so glad Wilber's health is better now!

Malice, as a force, seems to be underappreciated in these conversations.

It's time the IDW, Integral Institute, Heterodox Academy, Khan Academy, Wikipedia, and Thiel foundations, among others, work together to organize a Universal University of sorts for the establishment of a new and integrative scientific community.

Wow! So dense, such broad strokes of insight. Peterson ideas regarding hierarchies are so well represented here. However I'm very interested though in what colour Wilber places tibetan Buddhism and looking forward to that aspect of discussion. He has such a vast perspective.. Did you guys get any idea where he resourced this?

Good work. Adding adult development to this conversation is important

This analysis of how/why parts of the left and right have moved onto different planes while other parts remain on the original plane-it’s brilliant as an explanation, really illuminates what is going on (commenting as someone who only knows of Wilber through these few RW videos).

Good to see you back in action Ken

in a sense, teal has always existed -but the number of thinkers and human beings that were on this level was relatively minute. whats forever amazing about wilbers work is that you can apply it to so much previous thought and data. and its so relevant. so clarifying.

I’m so grateful for this channel and this channel’s content/guests/ideas/direction etc. I’ve struggled to quantify my views and my understanding of politics/government/life for years. The intellectual dark web, and all that encompass its spectrum, make me feel a little less crazy, and a whole lot more excited, when trying to define my beliefs and observations of the natural world.

I didn't realise until watching this video that Ken Wilber was the guy who edited "transformations of consciousness" I read that book this summer while I travelled around the south island of NZ. It was a really informative book and a great look at the yogic and meditation developmental models really quite in-depthly. I tripped on acid after reading some of it (as I wanted to try and implement some of the concepts into my meditative practice) and it mingled with my experience profoundly. Balance has such a deep symbolic meaning. It opened my thinking to attempt to imagine what it would literally be like to think from the perspective of these ideological groups. That sort of frightened me because to think entirely from those perspectives would mean I wasn't me in a very fundamental sense. The mix of these ideas and acid led to me considering what it is like to see the world from the ducks perspective (we had free roaming ducks in the camp I was staying at). The complex layering of how our perceptual systems synthesise and integrate (as well as exclude) stimuli was fascinating to contemplate. I had a few ideas about it but I can't prove any of it, it's just conjecture. A big thanks to this channel and Ken from a young man looking to make his way in this world as an aspiring psychologist, these concepts are invaluable.

I'm loving how he talked about the waking up paired with no knowledge of development and how it can cause people to become more entrenched in their beliefs, even if those beliefs cause harm. I think that's the first time I've ever heard anyone give such a warning other than perhaps Carl Jung saying, "Beware of unearned wisdom".

Extremely astute analysis, wow, good stuff! At this point I confess ignorance in having never heard of Ken; something I'll have to remedy. Good one!

Found out about Ken Wilber recently while searching the web for jungian articles & found a blog that had an entry on Integral Theory, Quadrants, etc. Interesting rabbit hole

Amazing dissemination of the current political/philosophical arena. Thank you for the upload!

The last 10 - 15 minutes of the talk are the best and most valuable. The fact that the spiritual experience by itself is not enough to change human fundamental behavior, no matter how "woken up" and "enlightened" you may get - is of the utmost importance. I say that is another example - shows that - happens because of - Fundamental Human Faults. Those have such influence on us "simply" because we are not actively aware of them. Therefore they influence us too much and we dont have proper tools or ways to mitigate and balance that influence. Its very important to realize that they cannot be removed completely - only balanced. Because they are literally fundamental and arise from most fundamental abilities and features living being have.

Thank you both.

really informative ... tnx mr wilber

Thanks again RW! Watched twice, liked, and will watch again. Please don't get Iain McGilchrist, JBP and Wilber together or my head might explode.

There is so much to unpack with his views. The long term view to individual progress with layers and generation for one. A lot of it links to solid foundation though 😀.

The ID sometimes seem to not know if it is modernist or integral, and I've felt that movement really really needs Ken to add some parts that are missing, but the ID is just on the verge of

Pls get Wilber has long-form conversation with Joe Rogan ASAP. I expect for 3-r4 hours if Joe has ability to digest knowledge of this great man

Thanks rebel, these two interviews with Wilber have been real sense making. I'd pay money to see him and JBP talk for a few hours. Any chance you could set that up/host?

The mean GREEN meme. KW was all over this decades ago. Kendalf the White has appeared. Tears of joy to see him again.

WElcome back Ken Wilber!

Wilbur and integral theory has such a potential to transform your paradigms...it's unimaginable...I hope we can hear more from them...seems like the only way out of the madness that lies in the first tier....thank God we have this model of reality....rebel wisdom is my classroom for now....

Wow sage words what a brilliant man. Thanks RW!

Great to see him reflect these thoughts. Those on either left or right would benefit even from reading his most personal book Grace & Grit about the way personal loss can be looked at and dealt with. However on the notions of Waking Up being unable to see the Growing up, i must say Hindu philosophical thought had embedded in it many developmental nuances. It wasnt like this philosophy was unaware of growing up. The way it accounted for it is by accounting for changing times and inherently building in capacities to change & adapt. The only thing is it is a slow process and also too subtle to be perceptible in its nascent stages. One of the markers with in Hindu philosophical thought is high levels of diversity , it is infact a collection of world views. Here i am not talking about spiritual communities etc i am talking about philosophical thought that shapes the journey of the individual ( vyashti) and collective ( samishti).

Wow!.Just wow.....

Thanks From India

I am enjoying this. I like what Wilber says about the regressive Left. But what can be done? I wish he could talk about it.

It's amazing how clear things become when you explain them... It just seemed like people where going mad... Thank you for your insight

Wow, I dunno if it's from his illness, but he sounds so much like Yoda now. I suppose it's extremely fitting

Did anyone noticed his voice sounds like Master Yoda? Love it!

By far the greatest breakdown of the current climate that can be found. If you've found better link me please (actually, that would be fantastic).

first time ever listening to Ken Wilber. Wow.

I'm trying my very best to be as open-minded as I can be about Integral Theory (indeed, it seems to make a lot of sense), but recourse to Carl Sagan's "baloney detection kit" is keeping me from going in (or at leas all in).

Ken at his best - “cleaning up”! Can anyone please get Ken and John Lamb Lash together?

It's not really true that there was no conception of "growing up". Both Yoga and Buddhism put high emphasis on ethical conduct. In Yoga it's literally the first two of the eight stages from Patanjali, especially the Yamas. And in Buddhism there can be a reduction to only the meditation aspect, like in Zen Buddhism, but of course the noble eightfold path really also includes right speech/action/livelihood etc. Whether those are actually realized by a group or a single human is another question.

Anyone have a chart or descrition of his color/personality theory of stages?

What is the book that he mentions on Jung?

First time I've ever come across this guy and I think I'm after idolising him haha

Kegan's 5 stages of development has a lot of similarities with Wilber's model, except the 5th stage (Wilber's green) is actually a meta-rational, meta-sytematic stage of maturity which Kegan sees a very small percentage of the population attaining. David Chapman (Meaningness blog) builds on these ideas.

Really cool

Knowing this color model by Laroux, I was wondering what the relation is between the two people. It appears Ken Wilber is used as endorsement for Larourx book (see www.reinventingorganizations.com). So I'm a bit surprised not to find a reference to the origin of the model.

spiral dynamics...where is Bob Beck who developed this ? U r presenting it well.

What level were the stoics?

I’m adding to the comments. Wilber and Petersen needs to happen

How I wish that spiral and explanatory words were in our vision on the right side of the screen during the talking. (Maybe I'll have to copy it down and have it in front of me and listen again). It is a fascinating breakdown/description of how things are.

I have to wonder whether the problem that Ken outlines with the green tier isn’t just the green tier reasoning the amber tier into the green worldview prematurely….

Ken looks a little healthier than in the past several years.

The IDW conversation will explode when its leaders come in contact with Ken Wilber and Integral Life ideas. It’s just a matter of time- evolution will have it no other way.

It’s interesting looking at content about the IDW in June of 2021. How fleeting it was. Was this purely down to Dave Rubin’s embarrassing lack of intellectual rigour or his flagrant move towards the right to improve his revenue stream? Or was it that the framework in which this type of discourse was being encouraged, was morphing and shifting so swiftly, that it was impossible to publicly state what it was without that very act ultimately destroying the claim that such a thing exists. Much like uncertainty principle. The idea that the very act of absolute explanation or observation distorts the outcome of the experiment.

great! now add two more researchers who have been quoted often: george lakoff and mark johnson. they add the puzzle piece how every of the stages wilber talks about has its own metaphorical explanatory frame and is blind to "facts" of the opponents.

This is a very interesting interview. My main criticism is that Wilber's exegesis of Exodus is very poor indeed. The Biblical authors are absolutely not telling a literal story. They are all parables about enlightenmment, or salvation, and the creation of the Universe, that is the start point of the cycle in a Universe that cascades between birth and death ad infinitum. This is all encoded within the 14th Chapter of Exodus. As a mystic and occultist, let me tell you all, the JP's exegeses are are excellent. He isn't quite on the money, but boy, I am so impressed with his intellectual astuteness. He is on the right lines. JP is quite right to down play the literal level of scriptures.

Practically speaking, given that 2020 is an election year, how should those who align with the Orange philosophy participate in a voting system when the options given only represent extreme green and dark amber? I would argue, this of course is intentional and that it has perpetually been driven as a divisive strategy in collaboration between both extremes.

get Wilber and Peterson in the same room.

has anyone mapped these to neural states? ex. integrated thinking involves far more brain cross firing and prefrontal reliance than does power thinking, which primarily invokes hedonistic drives centered around reproductive risk/reward. like healthy reality reflected in physical neural networks. like as we realize that the differences between objects which exist in reality are differences in degree and not kind, our brains develop to reflect that ‘reality ‘. you perhaps theres a way to see how MRI scans of people have changed over time (between eras of thought) or within a time frame and between types of thinkers (one era, diff mindsets) to reflect this. idk just a thought.

Fantastic

Does anyone else hear Yoda in Ken Wilber?

Yoda vs. Kermit

Oops, I mistook this for Rebel Wilson's channel. I'll just let myself out.

When are we going to get 2nd tier parties for parliament? Seems at least a decade away, doesn't it?

Started to happen? When serten strategies came into fruition I think is a more proper way to put it.

the dimensional reality doesnt change because human abstracted it differently that was what it was regardless of the ideological and emotional abstractions