Because she wasn't fencing, she used kendo. No retreating, just charging forward like a berserk with hitting and stomping, only hand movements were somewhat fencing-like, while watching it I wondered why is she not screaming yet xD Those 2 guys at least tried to use everything they learned 🤷🏼♂️
It was kind of interesting in that they seemed to counter each other. Katsushi seemed very defensive, Allyson was incredibly aggressive, and Nathan seemed like he was trying to actively analyse deeply rather than quickly. Katsushi's lack of aggression meant that Nathan had the time to try solving the problem of getting past him. Allyson's ridiculous aggression got punished heavily when she tried running into Katsushi's weapon. Nathan seemed like he kept getting pressured too quickly to decide what to do against Allyson.
at all the kendo kai I've practiced at, when everybody gathers around sensei to learn waza, everyone mimics the waza sensei is teaching as he demonstrates. It felt very kendo 😁
Funny enough, for judo the opposite is encouraged, where you're taught to try and replicate after just watching. This gives a new skill, being able to learn while only watching, not being taught.
as someone who did historical fencing for 30 years, this was a lovely video, makes me miss fencing, i had to stop after an accident where during thrusting, my blade snapped on the dummy and sliced the muscles in my forearm, had them surgically fixed but left me with a locked wrist
I watched the reverse video first, and I was impressed with the fencers really getting into it. They were a bit shy to be loud at first, but they really got into it when they got to the end. But the kendoka took it to the next level, they observe and repeat things so well, even their first try. They take direction immediately and then don't forget it. Kendo is so well disciplined, it does make sense. But watching them get that footwork down so quickly was amazing!
Fencing is a lot more natural tbf, Kendo is very artificial in how it plays out with whats allowed, how it should be done etc which makes it more awkward to learn
I really don’t play any specific sports but I absolutely love this series! I remembered binging all of them a few months ago so I’m glad I can binge the rest now 😁
Do these with Full contact martial artists, that would be amazing. Boxing and Muay Thai or judo and wrestling, they are just similar and just different enough to be exciting
@@noway5266 I already do but 1: sports have evolved a lot in the past decades, especially Judo with the 2010 IJF rule reforms. and 2: fights show the different results of using these arts, this show focuses on the practicioners' different expereinces.
@@notofuspeed i think judo and wrestling would be a better one since they are both primarily about geting the opponent to the ground, while bjj is more about WHAT you do while you are on the ground.
I think itd be harder to do striking because the muscle memory and strength need to be developed for a long time. By comparison, kendo and fencing can be practiced even on the same day because you can depend on timing and distancing, even if the technique isnt great.
this was such a fun watch!!! Never thought about how similar these 2 sports are, but it's amazing to see how there's a lot in common between them. Props to the production/editing team too -- not sure if the clips where the moves are mirrored in both kendo and fencing were researched and pre-planned or just a coincidence, but it was lovely seeing that comparison.
I watched both vids, and thoroughly enjoyed them! I must say, as a fencer, kendo always looked sloppy to me. But after watching the fencers trying to learn kendo, I never realized how graceful the art was! Moreover, I was very impressed with the kendoka, especially in their bouts. They seemed to pick up on it faster than I ever did! Just awesome! More, please! :)
It’s all about what’s familiar to you. As a HEMA fencer, sport fencing seems sloppy to me due to suicidal tactics: hitting first isn’t good if you get hit right after in most HEMA tournaments. As a kenjutsuka, kendo seems both familiar but weird because the cutting mechanics are different. However, sport fencing’s blade actions are still similar to longsword and messer sometimes. But it’s all cool: we’re all just folks who like to hit each other with fake swords. One thing that I love about sport fencing is the pedagogy: arguably the best of any sport, ever. Phenomenal stuff. Much respect to all of you. Great video. ⚔️⚔️⚔️
i love such discipline exchanges. As for fencing - first time i see someone asking to bend the wrist in parry 4 - it's generally taught the exact opposite in Europe: breaking the wrist is a big no-no in literature and coaches
@@tashahall3343 i can see it working with bend wrist in foil since you only need a blade contact, but in epee a thrust will go straight past such parry due to leverage
I can assure you, you can take a really strong deep 4 in epee that a blade can’t break through. It was what I relied on half the time while competing. It’s all about the timing :)
@@tashahall3343 i was always taught that banding the wrist is a big mistake (similar if you attacked with bend arm). Epeeist taking 4 over 6 was kind of a mistake to begin with.
Classical 4 parry uses a bent wrist, modern 4 is wrist straight much like the beat. Bending the wrist will expose the outside of the forearm to attack so a no no in epee.
The kendoka made such huge and quick improvements! They also fought so well cos they have the innate fighting spirit and combat mindset wired in their brains so by the time they faced each other they rocked!
It's so interesting how similar so many sports are.. for me im learning Boxing and i can see alot of the strategies have the same rationale This makes me wanna try out even more sports!
they did really good, and it's fun seeing them adjust their stances to fencing but still keeping those firmer feet and stomps (and being pretty dang fast at it!)
It was interesting how difficult it was for them to retreat. In their mock fights, the one to advance aggressively was much more likely to score the hit.
That’s because Kendo does not believe in retreating. There is a heavy mindset of always advancing and pressing the attack no matter what the situation. Even with Hiki-waza, the kendoka treats the action of reversing as an aggressive act against the opponent. The “retreat” in that case fueled by the momentum of the hit that was launched, rather than just an act to avoid being hit.
It's cool to see these fencing sports get more attention. I've been studying what my school calls MWMA or mixed weapons martial arts (a close equivalent would be HEMA) and its pretty cool to see these things gain traction and popularity. The only real gripe I have about MOF and Kendo is its target limitations and sportification of what is, at its core, a martial art. Not a big issue if you're more interested in the sporting and competitive aspects of it though in doing so it removes the full range of options available in an actual fight with these weapons. Also, doubling is kinda antithetical to the concept of like, winning and surviving an actual fight lol. Having fenced some MOF trained fencers I would say thats kinda their biggest weakness, they tend to go for points with reckless abandon to doubles and afterblows. Great documentary though and glad to see it getting coverage :)
Your point is fascinating. I hadn't thought about it the way you said. I feel like the difference in time periods kind of necessitate a change perhaps. We aren't walking around openly carrying swords anymore and going into battle with this kind of weaponry isn't a thing. It seems to me that the "sportification" of a martial art is sort of inevitable to keep it relevant to a larger audience. I could be totally reading that wrong though since I've never participated in mixed weapons martial arts. I'd be interested in how you think the art would remain simply a martial art without the sport element and still attract members.
@@ddot9566 Interesting to see that debate with Weapon Martial Arts. As a grappler (Brazilian Jiu Jitsu) practicioner I see this debate as well, because some people feel like Judo lost some of it's essence after becoming an olympic sport by losing some of the more effective or dangerous techniques in order to be more "Watchable" and there are many people that feel the same would happen with BJJ if it became an Olympic Sport
Another thing to bear in mind, is that MOF was also never really born out of a combat/self defence martial art (with the exception of, perhaps, Sabre) they have their roots in judicial duelling, which was always a somewhat ritualistic and codified affair.
Now that I think about it. I think it would be very beneficial for athletes to practice the basics of similar sports, like this video fencers and kendoka practicing each other’s sport. It could add subtle techniques to their normal practice.
I LOVE this series of sport mixing. So many of the athletes are being exposed to sports analogous to their own and probably - at least I would - be able to adapt some elements into their own sports.
What a cool tradeoff of technique, I watched the kendoka teach the fencers first and then this one, both are great videos! Now they will have to resist the urge to apply the other discipline's techniques in their disciplines matches lol. I want to see a kendo vs fencing match now.
As a saber fencer who also took kendo lessons fore a few years I was really hoping they would have at least one saber fencer for this video. The part about parrying would be a lot different.
Probably because the epee rules are much simpler to understand. If they chose sabre then they would need to explain right of way/priority which can go over your head pretty easily
@@NeiCHAMA omg Nathan!!!:D I'm sorry I worded that weird, I just love your eyes and hair; they're so unique. I don't know if you're wearing contacts but it looks great on you and it adds this captivating look that you'd see in a mysterious thriller character! I hope I'm explaining myself well lol
Really love This series! Would love to See kendokas try out HEMA (Historical European Martial arts) would love to See how they would handle the freedoms in that sport with grappling allowed and everything
Logically, I think it makes sense that so many contact sports are so similar to each other. Other than the weaponry, we all have the universal equipment that is the human body.
Truthfully, you should have had the Kendokas doing Sabre instead of Epee. There would have less of a learning curve and would have been much more natural for them.
just a note, speaking as a former fencer: fencing and kendoka have very different contexts for their fighting. fencing is a derivative of a dueling martial arts that originated in the upper classes and meant for unarmored 1 v 1 combat, and it’s swords are purpose built for this context kendo is a derivative of a war oriented martial art meant to train for armored battle field fighting, and japanese swords are mainly built for battlefield utility, while you can duel with Japanese swords, and there is a dueling culture, in the japanese context, this dueling context was built to accommodate for the sword’s battlefield intent, instead of the sword being built to duel like with fencing in a unarmored one on one duel, fencing will generally win, but in an armored battle with multiple actors on the field, kendo has the advantage
well it depends on what you mean by "win". they generally stopped at first blood in those one on one duels while the goal of a kenshi would be generally to kill their opponent. most wounds caused by smallswords would not be life threatening while most wounds caused by a katana would be deadly.
@@r6guy well i mean, i disagree. european dueling was often to the death as well, unless one party yielded and the other accepted. which is same as with most dueling cultures. my main point is that European dueling forms (primarily epee) emphasize incapacitating your opponent before finishing them. epee targets wrists and fingers to disarm and cripple the opponent. likewise it’s primarily a thrusting blade which gives a slight distance advantage (you only have to hit with the tip). finally an epee rapier is a one handed blade, which generally makes it more dexterous than two handed blades. in an unarmored context, it really does not take a lot of force to incapacitate your opponent with bladed weapons, you only need 1 pound of force to pierce flesh. in an unarmored duel, all you really need to focus on is keeping distance and crippling your opponent’s hands. and epee trains specifically for this context. but the instant you add armor (even just a gauntlet), or additional opponents, all of fencing’s dueling advantage goes out the window. crippling your opponent is a less viable strategy because of armored protection, and fencers have no idea how to handle more than one opponent. this is where armored marital arts like kendo or medieval HEMA have an advantage because they train for a multitude of battlefield conditions
@@r6guy TLDR fencing is like driving a F1 race car where as kendo is like driving a top-of-the-line all terrain utility truck. when put on a race track, F1 car will outpace a truck. but taken outside of those ideal conditions, and the F1 car is useless compared to the truck. the truck can do everything decently, and the race car can only do one thing really well. I’d personally rather have a truck than a race car.
The conclusion I have drawn is that it would usually always equal a double loss. The fencer would strike first with a potentially lethal blow but it would not stop the kendoka instantly and they would continue following through with their attack that began before being ranthrough and also land on the fencer which would cause considerable damage almost guaranteed to be fatal.
@@notofuspeed if the fencer is going for killing blows out the gate, but epee (the primary dueling form) trains fencers to incapacitate and cripple the hand before finishing the opponent off. in an unarmored context, they would have the advantage if they just keep proper distance. but you know, the instant there’s even a bit of protection (like even just a gauntlet) the epeeist’s advantage is lost
It’s kinda cool how smart they are too. Like when rhe Olympian was talking about how in Kendo strikes are wider and you can carry the momentum and that they figures that out
I think it seemed like the kendokas had a better time picking up fencing because kendo is more technique heavy compared to western fencing. In my experience, Western fencing's difficulties comes when you're more intermediate and working on the more subtle things like distance, strategy and timing which the advanced kendokas are familiar with. I'm glad they picked epee and not sabre. If they went with sabre, the kendokas would have almost no issues.
Would be really interesting to see, how each fighting style would change, if they didn't have protective gear on. I do propose, that the self preservation instinct would make pretty much everyone much more protective and less willing to do risky attacks that expose them to counters.
I think you guys should of done it slightly different. You should of gave them epee and told them basic scoring rules first, and let them try it it with Kendo skills they already have. And only then introduce them to posture, movement, parries, etc, and let them try it again. This would of been more interesting.
So the real question is: If you give fencers and Kendokas real versions of their weapons and armor and drop them back in history into the actual Roman Colosseum, how long would they survive against gladiators?
@@tonsofregrets258 You're probably going to need to find someone with less experience for that on the fencing side though. There aren't a lot of people who have been doing HEMA for 15+ years, and I don't know if there's anyone with Cody's level of experience.
interesting they taught binding parry 4/quarte whereas I got taught that as a variation on standard quarte. but I guess if you are starting with epee not foil going for the bind immediately makes sense
Looks like it was shot at the last location for Beverly Hills Fencing Club (they haven't been there for around a year, but have a new facility opening in 2024). I stopped teaching the toe-lift for an advance years ago....that's NOT how a real step is made...the KNEE leads, Watch an actual bout...no one lifts the toe first, bit even for a lunge.
Interesting for sure I like the tiny difference still make a. bit impact on how to aproche the fight. It been like 10 years since I played fencing but usually the offence and the def kinda go bot since in 1 sparing where each player try to hit but whene they miss they reatreat I think it was interesting to see that they where more offensive overall and that the retreat wasn't as effective for them. I would guess it mainly the difference betting the 2 type of combat where one you can block, or retreat vs the other one seem to have less retreat at less (I don't know for block tho)
Those are power cords. While most modern fencers are battery-operated, the more traditional practitioners still insist on being powered through a wall outlet.
I feel like the Fencers were more perceptive of the little faults of the Kens. I think Kendo movement is super specific and they knew that the fencers were not gonna get it perfect on their first practice, so they were fine with letting more things go while the fencers werent too worried about being vocal when something was wrong...also maybe thats because Kendo was the first to teach???...So Fencers seen what they were doing wrong while learning and knew what to be vocal about when they were the ones to teach? I feel like since Kendo is a mix between lifestyle and sport and based on tradition they all do everything more so by the book, and since everyone is doing the same thing the focus on doing things a certain way is higher that maybe they didnt want to be too strict on the first practice. Im sure that Fencing is also a lifestyle but its more inclined to the sport aspect, but fencing seems like they have more flexibility with how you can do things.
