The comedian gets into an argument about politics with Michael Parkinson on his show. The show was recorded and broadcast on Saturday February 17th 1973. The other two guests are Sir John Betjeman and Maggie Smith.
Ah the days when chat shows consisted of intelligent, eloquently discussions. A meeting of truly talented people. Now its full of jelly mould singers and fake moronic wannabes.
@@eddybabe7963 Well said. I reckon OMR is as brainless as the tripe he or she prefers to watch, hence, they felt impelled to make such a crass, arrogant and blinkered comment towards someone who rightly said things were better back then on chat shows.
John Gordon that’s east London if you go north, north west you’ll find lots of Jewish people if you go south east you find lots of black people if you go to West it’s mostly middle class white people and Edgware is a very Arab area, what you very rarely find is working class English as they have all mostly gone to Kent and Essex after they sold their council houses but in all these areas is a huge mix, I do prefer the old days myself but it is what it is. Another change is that you will now find tons of middle class white English people in PEKHAM and Brixton which is a huge change from 10-20 years ago when it was mostly Afro-Caribbean, it’s an ever changing city but if you travel it widely you certainly would not call it londanistan.
Trust me, here in the U.K. you simply do not hear accents like this anymore, even amongst the middle and upper classes. I'm 56, and when I hear voices like these, it reminds me of teachers I had as a child. It's truly astonishing how rapidly language changes.
@@Desertduleler_88 Immigration has historically always been the key factor in changing languages and accents. However, today, the influences of foreign TV and movies (mainly American) have been added to the mix. The appalling TV show "Neighbours" did profound linguistic damage to two generations of young British girls.
@@richardhart9204 l was referring to non European immigrants which don’t speak English as their first language. I find it hard to believe “Neighbours “ was destructive to Britain compared to American content.
Kenneth Williams was a tour-de-force in this interview. You can tell he's well read, has thought about the subject and is highly intelligent and articulate. R.I.P.
You calling him a "tour de force" and claiming you can judge who is well read is too funny. A person can't be that, his performance could be, but not him...😂😂😂
Yeah Maggie was a fox back then. But have you seen her now.? An old, ugly, moody, annoying woman. You can't even imagine that she was quite attractive once upon a time.
It's not an argument in the modern sense of the word. Arguments these days typically revolve around name calling, aggression and not much point. Here, we have a conversation. A passion. Two men with conflicting viewpoints allowing one another to speak before voicing disagreement. It gets heated, but not nasty. Then they have a little laugh with one another to break the ice, and carry on with their lives. No harm done.
And was more enjoyable to watch as a viewer as a result, I'm tired of these ''debate'' shows where they just seem to consist of talking over one another, although this was before my time it was interesting to watch.
This genius spoke sense. Homes not theatres. But still we built shit offices, now empty and shit theatres now empty. But houses never will be. Just visit any town or city.
Yes me too, I had a horrible feeling he was going to talk about protecting old buildings etc, but no he was all about homes for people 👍💛.. I feel bad I stereotyped him in my mind due to linguistic ability.
@@xamurai00 he claimed to be celebate but those who travelled with him to tunisia would tell you a different story. He was often seen disappearing off riding pillion on young mens mopeds.
Maggie Smith was 43 years old when this was filmed. It's often said that everybody has a period in life during which they look most beautiful and for me, this was when she was most incredibly attractive. Apart from that, she's an incredible woman and an absolutely brilliant actress. KW is great fun but thanks to the camera operator for keeping Maggie Smith in the frame!
Absolutely Correct-can you imagine Kerry Katona or any of those fools from One Direction quoting a little Voltaire Kant or Shaw -dumb down, Deeper on down.
Ogri Grindstaff oh calm down you septic turd Noel Fielding turd would think that Voltaire is an hors d'oeuvre not the point I made and you’re not as clever as you think you are.
Un be lieve a ble. I grew up in 70s watching carry on films not knowing this guy is a genius. I love him more now. Guys nowadays haven't heard of Voltaire. In my day guys worked down the pits
I love that here we have Britain's poet laureate and of the top British thespians and the one who's got the most to say is the bloke from the Carry On films!
KW was quite good at talking over people but to be fair, even in those days chat shows would give each guest their main turn. Im sure Maggie Smith and John Betjamin did get a chance to say rather more during the programme. If everyone had been as amusingly dominating as KW it wouldn't have worked and I'm sure that's partly why Parky took issue with some of what he said.
Parkinson has a go at Kenneth Williams that he can’t relate to a man in a menial job. Kenneth Williams came from a working class family and only got into comedy once he returned from the war. He wasn’t born with a silver spoon in his mouth. He worked hard and had real talent to get where he was by that time. In that era you HAD to have talent to become a celebrity. Whereas now you can become a celebrity for no apparent reason whatsoever.
Yes he did come from a working class family and did work hard but what parkinson was saying just because you did well doesn't mean a working class man doesn't deserve a decent wage who also works hard.
@@leanneleatherbarrow5843 absolutely. Anyone who works hard deserves a decent wage. In many ways I suppose the conversation they were having is perhaps more applicable to today’s world even more than the 1970s. There are hard working people who work their fingers to the bone and struggle to get by financially. Yet there are people out there who have celebrity status, are gifted endless luxuries all whilst contributing nothing of real value to society: Reality TV Stars, Social Media Influencers, Footballers Wives…I could go on. At least back in the 70s to be a celebrity you had to have some sort of worthwhile talent to be famous. Just need to look at guys like Ken Dodd, Les Dawson, Joe Longthorne, Bob Monkhouse, Bruce Forsyth…they all had genuine talents and worked hard to get where they ended up. Sadly not everyone has a talent that can land them a life of luxury but I wholeheartedly agree with you (and Parkinson in that respect) that anyone who works hard, regardless of social status, SHOULD be given a decent wage. It’s just a pity that society has always and probably will always favour the haves over the have nots.
Kenneth Williams was a national treasure. Highly intelligent, articulate, very amusing and a little eccentric in a way that only an Englishman can be. He also had the spine to serve in the British Army when it really was the British Army- with very high standards and rigid discipline- so he was no milksop either. What a character, we will never see his like again sadly.
I grew up watching Kenneth in the wonderful Carry On films. Its great to see him here as an intelligent man giving his opinion in an intelligent and passionate way. His work brought happiness to millions and that legacy will live on, and its nice to see that he really cared about what he did and the people who watched him.
All those years ago and STILL Britain has a severe homelessness problem,in fact, a far,far,worse homelessness problem, to the pint of crisis! It comes to something when a comedy actor, and he was hilarious,bless him,has more sense and compassion for the poor than our leaders! WHAT am I talking about?? EVERYONE has more compassion for the poor than our heartless leaders!!!!
The Parkinson interviews were fabulous and demonstrated what CRAP chat shows today really are. I particularly loved the ones where he devoted the entire show to only one guest - Richard Harris, Dr. Jacob Bronowski, and the great Sammy Davis Jr.
Remember seeing him when I was 8 on a visit to London from Ireland.. we didnt have the courage to ask for an autograph. Sadly he died a month later. Always felt he was such a great entertainer, supremely intelligent and well read and so funny as this interview in abundance. RIP
We have garnered the cult of mediocrity, here in England now. Too many people wanting their glimpse of fame and dreaming of a "Get rich quick" scenario. Sadly, far too many get their 5 minutes of fame and a cash injection, but it's not enough for them and their desired lifestyles. Once their fame fizzles out, they're brought back to Earth with a thump. And just around the corner are the gutter press, waiting to pounce on yet another "Riches to rags" story. Another issue is the one of offence. The fame wannabes don't want to risk causing offence to people, for fear of their manager dropping them like a stone.And managers want to play things safe nowadays. Thus, the UK is now plentiful in celebrities, but lacking in personalities.
@@Deegee_1969 he said it himself in this video - "Self discipline, going on night after night and doing it well". He did it because he enjoyed it. I don't get that feeling from any modern day celebrities.
Absolute quality. Marvelous stuff. Norton is fun but I miss this so much. The audience wised quickly up and got over the comical voice to see the genuine intelligent man beneath.
@@infol1537 You people aren't the solution, you're the problem. You can't wait to say something negative about your own country. Your ancestors must read your stuff and think _"Is that what a Brit sounds like in 2020?"_
@@mus139 Honestly, real Brits are sick and tired of you lowlifes running your own incredible country down. Thank god your ancestors can't read what you pussies say about Britain in 2020, they'd be ashamed of you.
Parky is such a nob. I'd forgotten how annoying he was. Kenneth Williams, however, was great to watch, even if his opinions made me cringe a bit in places.
I'm surprised to hear you say that - the stagnation in people's wages is closely connected to the decline in union power. Quite bizarre to make an argument which places unions in opposition to homelessness - if you are not getting decent wages you may very well find yourself homeless.
Very timely discussion. There was a time when people in media spoke honestly, without editing and from their hearts. I can't imagine important topics being discussed within this kind of forum in 2012. Such passion!!!
I mean, as was pointed out in this interview, it's very easy for him to say when he's got a glamorous and well paid job that he loves. But as Michael pointed out, not every job is like that and it's quite right that people in those job, which are essential for our country to keep ticking, should aspire for more. Doesn't matter how much pride you take in your job if it doesn't pay you enough to live off, as many teachers and nurses and bin men are currently finding.
@@SuperSupermanX1999Kenneth also saying people shouldn't strike because it harms others is also nonsense. He says people should be more forgiving. Would he be like that if the theatre bosses were paying him pennies while charging huge fees at the box office? He would be withdrawing his Labour to fight for a better wage just like the people he criticised.
There was no pause. He just kept talking in one long incredibly unbroken sentence, moving from topic to topic, so that no one had a chance to interrupt; it was really quite hypnotic
Oh, how I miss dear Kenneth's sharp mind and wit! He spoke with such conviction and was so humerous throughout this interview.... If only chat shows could be like this! Thank you for posting x
Probably because they're not quite sure what to make of their comic hero speaking so passionately on such a serious subject. They're not laughing at what he's saying - they're laughing at the fact that he's saying it.
@@Reymundodonsayo No canned laughter on this. It went out live and they always showed the studio audience at the start. Some people would laugh simply because it was Kenny ranting. Like people went to see Harry H Corbett in Richard III because of Steptoe and Son and laughed whenever he spoke, completely failing to understand what they were hearing.
Definitely, if only modern celebrities were half as interesting to listen to. I don't agree with everything he said he definitely lost me when he said people should realise their limitations but I could still listen to him all day.
Such sensible words that are just as pertinent today. A notable actor pointing out that theatres are no good if you don’t have a home. Houses ought to have been top priority for all governments for the last half-century!
OMR - Forget the way he sounds/looks. Thats his own unique voice! He definitely has an extensive vocabulary, which I very much doubt you have in your repertoire. Notice how the movie and music industry has changed for the worse since these men started to disappear. Coincidence? Unless your telling me you prefer Justin Bieber and ppl like Vin Diesel ect.
Its so remarkable seeing Maggie Smith when she was younger. I only learned who she was from the Harry Potter movies and Downton Abbey. But definitely recognizable as the same person, and very classy, and attractive as well.
What a great clip - 1973 - I was "2"!!! Oh my word!!! I'd love to watch the whole show! Ken is so passionate and clear minded - very intelligent fellow - love him :-)
Excellent that Kenneth Williams and Parkinson could argue against each other like that…no “standard narrative” that we’re all doomed to follow nowadays with the fear of causing outrage.
Oh they just don't make them like that anymore do they! I love listening to Round the Horn on Radio 4 Extra (on line) and hearing the wonderful Kenneth Williams and all that he got away with. Lovely.
I echo the comments that you don't get this on any chat-show now. But on a separate point, I love that the fact he "painted me own walls" is a sign that he was hard up!
What fun! Kenneth Williams was an absolute genius - as quick a wit as I've ever seen, and he probably never really took himself as seriously as Parky seemed to think.
@@tomeldersQuite right. Not often Parky told a guest he was talking crap but it made for another great TV moment. But because it was the exception not the rule.
Isn't that the definition of a Westerner with a internet connection - Special, famous and rich. We are home in the land of milk and honey, and everything is within reach.
That's probably the most obnoxious nonsense I've ever heard or read. If people were to accept their limitations then humanity would have achieved nothing.
@@dazpatreg "All this lay in the planet's remote past. It was, however, a descendant of one of these eccentric poets who invented the spurious tales of impending doom which enabled the people of Golgafrincham to rid themselves of an entire useless third of their population. The other two-thirds stayed firmly at home and lived full, rich and happy lives until they were all suddenly wiped out by a virulent disease contracted from a dirty telephone."
Though Parkinson makes a point.. Williams is way ahead of him “you strive to do a job to the best of your abilities”, “one must accept their limitations” .. this is striving to do better at the same time being a realist!
J EDIT spot on, the person that gets ahead typically is the person that cares and applies themselves that can be an actor, it can be a manual labourer it can be anyone in any walk of life. Ken speaks the truth whilst parky gives a lazy argument about entitlement
@Edward Hayes as anyone should, the way I see it is many of these union men, of whom I worked with in factories, people who came into working life in the sixties and seventies, just cared about themselves it wasn't a socialist morality. That's what Ken is saying when he says about the extra quid. I've been the idler getting away with the bare minimum and I've applied myself I know both mindsets and the truth is when you apply yourself you typically get further and other people don't like it because the truth is that they could do the same but they don't want to and the union is just another way of them getting more out the boss for the same work (excluding a rise to match cost of living etc), this'll be the same person that goes on and talks up their pay in the office to get it higher than a fellow worker even after the union got it up. That same person would then give a Parky argument, or label someone like Ken a Champagne Socialist. I witnessed that for 15 odd years. And I stand by Ken, apply yourself, get rewarded and think about the good of others. I also stand by the rights of the workers to organise against employers and governments that undermine their ability to live a decent lives by squeezing them too tight
@Edward Hayes I agree with all that but I think the point was if all you do is care about the extra quid you're not taking forward the social morality that would try to attain real improvement for everyone, whether that is actually possible or not is another thing, but just because Ken made a success of himself doesn't take away from that, at least he knows what it's like to hold down various shit jobs and live that life, some people never even see that, especially those who had a charmed life before their careers in film and media, I know he was set for stardom, but he'd probably still have those principles if he hadn't made it. Ken is not the person who needs dressing down in my view. The unions are all the working man and woman has to have power over employers and I certainly would want to see a UK with out them, and I don't complain when people are on strike but equally ask yourself how do you take things forward outside the union membership and striking. That's all I'm saying, and I stand by the point it's not what you do it's the way you do it... every job can be done badly or it can be done well..
@Edward Hayes What are you on about? The carry on films were famous for the poor pay that actors received. What the leading actresses got was absolutely atrocious. Kenneth never got paid anything close to a Hollywood star. He had to continue working throughout his whole life. He also comes from a working class family, he was never rich. Try to understand people before you slate them. And anyway, jobs in the '60's (and up to the time of this programme in '73) were really easy to find. They were everywhere. People always had the option of finding a better job. And even a low pay job was enough to afford a mortgage and a family. Not like these days. And not like the 40's and 50's when Kenneth was a young man. Union bosses became too powerful, too selfish and had become the very thing they were supposed to fight against. No matter what was given, it was never good enough. The result: shit economy, not enough jobs in the UK, and union bosses have become irrelevant and powerless.
What an incredible man Kenneth Williams was, intelligent, articulate, versatile and hilariously funny. That said, Maggie Smith was a foxy looking lady.
He's right about homes. In Liverpool there are blocks of student housing going up everywhere but no homes and the number of people sleeping rough on the street is rising fast.
Everywhere in England now has large numbers sleeping rough in the towns and cities. Ive never seen it so bad in my life and i ain't that old. The investment our governments have spent on its own people with their money is non existent. The little things that have been done in the last 20 years have been paid for by new housing developments.
Because it's at odds with today's SJW snowflake mentality, where being gay makes you an automatic 'victim'. Williams didn't and Starkey doesn't act like a victim.
Unions are useful vehicles for working class people to improve their lot in life. If they were asking for large pay increases then I could understand, but the requests appear to be modest. What's the problem with that approach?
"Heated Argument"....? Nah! No aggression, no obscenities, no vulgarity. Just some intelligent, passionate and very animated people putting their views across to each other! Quite refreshing actually. I can think of very few people we call celebrities today who could keep up with Kenneth (or Maggie and John for that matter!)
Parkie, Maggie, Kenneth and Sir John, four great British talents having a friendly discussion on an important point. Passion, disagreement and humour all making for wonderful conversation.
Bravo Kenneth!!!! I so love that man!!! What an incredibly interestman man he must have been to know personally and I love that he has so much PASSION about the things he believes in.
This makes me feel strangely homesick. I’m 50. I’d forgotten this kind of world even existed. People you want to hear what they say. They get time to explain it. Or make an arse of it even but all done relatively in the spirit of good faith. We’ve truly gained absolutely nothing and lost a great deal since then in the U.K.
Gone are the days when guests (and presenters) actually spoke with intelligence and forthrightness around interesting arguments.. Pre-written/pre-rehearsed vapid nonsense nowadays. Respect to this era of argumentation and to Mr Kenneth Williams ❤️
