Kevin Gets His British Firearm Certificate (FAC) As A Target Shooter 

New drinking game: have a drink every time someone comments “Well, here in (enter country/state here) I can just walk into any gun shop and ...” I think I had best stick to dihydrogen monoxide otherwise I might need a new liver.

Also to note, FAC's can and are revoked for content posted online. Case in Point the English Shooting channel here on youtube.

I always thought the firearms rules were based on the fact that the police want to abolish all public access to firearms and the law is just as much restrictions as they can get through Parliament for now.

We may have screwed up the details of one-for-one variations slightly... Not sure. If we did, please explain under this pinned post (it's been 15+ years since I lived in the UK so may have got the deatils a bit squiffy...) Also, although there is no limit for powder etc. in the firearms law, Sam pointed out that there is such a limit in the health and safety law, see here: www.hse.gov.uk/explosives/licensing/storage/index.htm You'll note that the first 2 provisions contradict (10kg vs 5kg "shooters' powder") and that 15kg of ammo doesn't get you very far, which is probably why neither of us had ever heard of it, no FEO had ever mentioned it to either of us, and it seems to be entirely unenforced.

Being able to just go to the gun shop and buy whatever you want has always been the norm here as long as you are not a felon, in my case its money that prevents me from buying more guns and ammo not laws but I see that rapidly changing all around me. Here in America we are going to go from being able to have it all to not being able to have anything at all if the anti gunners have their way.

I thought we had it bad in Australia (and we do). But the slots, ammunition limits and handgun ban I'm not sure who is actually worse off. On one hand you can get suppressors, semi auto rimfires, semiauto shotguns and pump shotguns. But we can get handguns, pump rifles, vastly less nonsense for repeating rifles, essentially no ammunition limit (some limits on powder storage but its a fair bit and doesnt include loaded ammo). No concept of slots either, we have to justify most firearms with a genuine reason but thats fairly easy to do. I personally hold around a dozen handguns and 20 longarms and a bit under 10,000 rounds of ammo. The pettiness of revoking someones license because they were an assault victim seems insane to me. If the police even tried something that daft here they would lose in an appeals tribunal in no time at all. Makes me wonder if I should just renounce my British Citizenship, I cant imagine ever wanting to live with that.

A year? Oof, I get annoyed in the time it takes to fill out a 4473 and I don't even have to wait on the phone call because of my CCW.

Wake Up America this could be us if we do not protect Our Right To Keep and Bear Arms.

I feel bad now because I just got back from the tact of crown land behind my house after dumping 200 rounds of 5.56 from my Tavor 21, 100 rounds of .308 load testing my m305 and Stag AR10 along with a couple boxes of shells from my 11" legal short barrel pump shotgun for S&G's. Now, I am going to go down to the vault and sing a lullaby to my favourite AR15 SBR and a couple hundred of her siblings so that they can sleep easy knowing that the big bad UK government can't touch them. Seriously, 200 round allocation, I went through that in less than an hour!

its absolute madness they took a guys guns away because HE WAS THE VICTIM of a violent crime. what a backward system they have there

I am in Northern Ireland. We are similar in some regards and very different in others. We do not have slots in our FAC. We can only apply for an FAC or variation when we know the firearm we want. In the application we need to provide the serial number. But our ammunition allowances are higher.

Not all clubs are like that. I was an ex reservist and so maybe I had some slack but my club did not require courses as such. It required you attend the club a reasonable amount of times in probationary period and show proficiency. shooting club guns. Then at end of probationary period you could be a full member and apply for FAC. Also I was not cross examined by my force on what calibres I wanted . I guess it must vary a lot between forces even when the law is supposed to be the same everywhere

200 Rounds? How does that work? Sometimes I shoot that on one afternoon?

It might vary by licencing police force, but my club was nowhere near as strict with tests and certification as it sounds like Bisley is, just be a provisional member for 3 months, turn up to shoot a reasonable number of times and you automatically become a full-member. It may also be down to the fact that Kevin was trying to get so many guns on his ticket at once, if you just ask for a couple of rim-fires and a couple of full-bores the police might not be quite so stringent on written proof of requiring every given gun i.e. I am a member of this club which has a full-bore and small-bore range and I wish to compete in both disciplines is easier to explain than why you are asking for 5 30 calibre rifles. That being said I haven't actually applied for an FAC and this is just what range officers and other members of the club have told me. They also told me I should ask for as much ammunition as possible and justify it by bulk-buying, but I don't know quite how that would go down with the local bobby.

so, really for firearms in total, it is about the same level of "requirement/need" as a handgun down under almost

When I first went to the local Police Station to get the forms to apply for my shotgun certificate they gave me the forms but accidentally also gave me a copy of an internal memo entitled "Questions you may not ask an applicant". First question the cops weren't allowed to ask (at least not in 1985), "why do you want a shotgun certificate?"

I love hearing these knowing what others have to go through for a firearm at least its possible for you guys. Makes me appreciate that pesky 2nd amendment that they keep trying to infringe at every turn.

British firearms laws are really beyond stupid. I wish they would scrap the entire set of legislation and laws and start again.

Thank you for a fascinating discussion. It was tremendously informative. It also reinforce my humble gratitude for being a US citzen (which is a complicated row to hoe at times).

The whole pulling the wall off the cabinet thing - I can understand why they do it, but, let's face it, portable power tools have come a long way since 1968 and burglars are perfectly aware of that. I'll leave it at that.

Sounds like a reason to not give any ground in the USA. States on the west coast or north east would jump to get us to your level.

The loft? Flip the condensation in Winter is not friendly to firearms.....

Ours is called a Firearms & Explosives Licencing Officer. I think it varies.

This is really interesting - I intend on applying soon and had originally thought you'd have to be really specific on calibre (i.e. a slot for a bolt action 7.62x54r, a different slot for a .308), is this not the case? And if not, is it unlikely a first time grant would get two 7.62 rifles approved for target shooting? I'd love a .308 but those straight pull SVDs are so damn tempting too... thanks in advance if anyone can help!

How draconian

Very interesting, as me & the mrs are starting this journey after years of never getting around to it! I presume if you want less slots it can be smoother (but not quicker!), we'd probably only need a .22 semi auto each as for the odd occasion we might dabble with other stuff the club we are joining has a very large and varied club armoury.

I had wondered why I had to really stretch my Italian on SBAM for the last year and abit

18:30 so in Italy the government will steal your property because someone else broke the law? That's pretty fucked up.

THE ENFIELD .303 WAS MY FIRST DEER RIFLE WHEN I WAS A TEEN(40+ YEARS AGO..) IT WAS A "SPORTER" MODEL,AS IN THE '70'S I WAS GIVEN IT AS A PRESENT . I LIVED IN SOUTH EASTERN TEXAS,AT THE TIME.(S. S. EAST OF HOUSTON)IT WAS A GREAT "BRUSH GUN" AS IT WAS SHORTENED AND THE AREA IS VERY BRUSHY .(100 YDS MAX WAS ALL YOU COULD SEE) I HARVESTED MANY A BUCK WITH THAT RIFLE.I WISH I STILL HAD IT... GOD BLESS AND GODSPEED

I just checked, and the limit in Finland seems to be 20000 rounds, 1000 primers and two kg of smokeless per dwelling (flat or house), regulated under explosives regulations. So you could store more if you have multiple buildings/locations. Only caveat is that you need a locked container to store them in.

I'm a USA citizen. This is a great introduction to what might happen here.

Love it. Buckinghamshire is the worst, yet there is some of the best ranges around there.

Subjects, not citizens. :(

Loft or Not Loft is not only police. It is the same circumstance with most officials and professionals who are not themselves bound by a strict protocol and are so able to give advice. Have you heard of a second opinion from a doctor?

In New Zealand there are no restrictions on the number of guns or the amount of ammo you can have there is a pistol licence, each pistol is registered. There is a collectors licence for people wanting to collect restricted military firearms, like machine guns mortars etc, each weapon is registered and they arent allowed to be fired. There is an A category licence which allows you to own as many rifles and shotguns as you want these weapons arent registered. To get a firearms licence you need to do a safety course, be assessed by the police as being a “ fit and proper person” this includes a police visit to your home where they will want to see that you have a gun safe. The police in New Zealand dont usually carry guns and they dont want thieves stealing peoples guns. Semiauto centrefire rifles have just been restricted and the government has started confiscating them and paying compensation. You can apply to own a semiauto centrefire for pest destruction work or they can be held by collectors.

MADNESS...TRUE MADNESS

Update 2022, no more legal assistance insurance with BASC.

12 months I dont know what faff Bisley get involved in but you waited 9 months longer than necessary

It’s interesting to me that both the UK and USA enacted sweeping national gun laws in 1968.

And I thought we had it bad in Canada. Stands as a reminder that no matter how bad it is it can always get worse.

says with pep: "now, Ive got it!" stares with lust : "You have indeed... you have indeed..."

Italy is no paradies for sure, but I cant see why one would move back to the UK to go thru this when he has seen other before.

This is for firearms for sports shooting. For hunting the proof requirements are different (but good look finding land to hunt on without having bags of cash). If you do own or are responsible for a large amount of land then getting a rifle for pest control is also easier to get the proof of need (as long as you don’t ask for .50 cal rifle to control rabbits).

I like Bloke's Schwingerhemd. Very Swiss!

Maybe I missed it but are there any restrictions on reloading/hand loading smokeless ammo in the UK? Are there different advantages/disadvantages to reloading in the UK vs the US?

the reason why don't issue more ammunition is if licence holder commits a crime he would Ammunition

Bloody hell, and I thought it was a slow bureaucratic pain in the arse waiting 6 months in Australia.

The only thing keeping me from moving accros the english channel honestly

longbranch weooo

do you have collectors license for like large bore semi auto rifles and pistols, and maybe fully automatic historic maschineguns

That was very interesting. I've heard a lot (of angry rambling mostly) about British firearms law but nothing detailed (and less angry) like here. While I do not envy some of the limitations, I do envy the training part.

We have appearance laws in Australia. However, generally in my state New South Wales (NSW) there's no* real ammunition limit, apart from 10 tonnes of powder. We don't have limits on the number of firearms for our standard firearms license (A+B). Though we can't semi autos for target shooting, they can acquired on a collectors license (centrefire semi-autos are deactivated). There's still loads of bullshit but.... We can have handguns (for now at least).

I’d listen to a video on Italian laws...

I want that because it’s parkerized...

After listening to this discussion, from both of you & the difficulties on acquiring a license in Britain & having it revoked, etc-the Dunblane killer, got arrested & charged in 1990, for child abuse, but hot released, as there was no evidence, etc, on the orders of the Assistant Chief, Constable & this man got Thomas Hamiltons license for his handguns, renewed. Its funny how that man (who was spoken about) got his FAC revoked for a silly thing & Thomas Hamilton had his renewed & given permission to purchase as much ammo as a competition-shooter, etc, despite being kicked out of gun clubs, for weird behaviour. And now every shooter is paying for what that man did & that man was allowed a renewal, etc, despite strong opposition, from the public, lower-ranking police, officers, the firearms department & gun club members. Thats the unfairness of the handgun ban & that it stinks to high heaven of child abuse, corruption.

On purely sport basis, Kevino ought to naturalize Italian. 'Xcept the stupid right government just raised the lenght of residence and so lots of EU citizens could not naturalize for a few extra years. From being allowed firearms for home defence to being treated as a wannabe mass-murderer. It sucks.

Just starting to jump through those hoops myself.

Another Canadian Enfield, and in Canada they are relatively scarce and demand a premium.

I do love the bloke on the range's channel. He gives you some excellent information on some wonderful firearms. He even responded to a personal request for some help with a purchase of a Schmidt Rubin model 89/96. Top bloke he is. But can I add, a lot of information in this video is specific to the police authority they are based in. I am in a different part of the country and under a different police force. There are lots of different interpretations of the law. Such as I can hold 600 rounds of centre fire ammunition for each of my section 1 rifles. As long as you can use the rifle on a range or in a club is justification. So you do have to be in a club. However my training was three separate sessions on the safe handling of the firearms that can be used and that was it. Bisley is considered the Mecca of shooting in the UK. As such it also has a reputation for being overly strict. It really isn't that bad here in the UK. The rules are there for a reason, which I fully endorse. However we do have differences with individual firearms officers and authorities not fully following the home office regulations. This then leads to different approaches in different authorities. On the whole, you can own firearms here in the UK. It's not that bad... you simply have to follow the rules is all. Happy and safe shooting to you all.

I got my renewal SG ticket, took 4 months... The ticket was blank and had an incorrect name... 2 shotguns had vanished off the register. The police were clueless. Fortunately I had a copy of my old ticket with the serial numbers etc and the application form. 8 weeks later I was issued with a correct SG ticket.

negogiating slots ? sounds like tyranny to me

In Canada the Firearms Act uses the term “reasonable” way too much. A “reasonable amount of ammunition” is my favourite. Reasonable to who?

Thanks for the vid Lads. I was in Australia last year and had a long chat with some shooters there about there regulations.........a similar vid looking at the differences would be interesting ? Best wishes.

At 14.00 Kevin stated that he was applying for a shotgun licence to hold a Brown Bess; does the Section 2 licence allow you do hold a shotgun that fires solid slug? Would the Brown Bess not be Section 1?

Can someone please enlighten me as to how limiting how much ammo or how many guns a law abiding tax paying citizen can buy or possess will stop criminals from committing crimes?

Absurdly draconian.

I am a member of a historical reenactment group in Northern Ireland. I put in for a gun certificate, for a black powder muzzle loader (3 band Enflield). I took a year to get my certificate. The ironic thing is that I was employed myself by the police for over 13 years. My Firearms Officer was terrible. She knew nothing about guns and wasn't interested in her job. She was a civilian who probably had never fired a gun in her life. Over here there is only one gun certificate. A shotgun rifle and handgun are carried on the same certificate. It is also ironic that NI is the only place in the UK where handguns are legal, due to the need to carry protection weapons by the security forces. My musket is considered as a shotgun, but I am not permitted to own any ammunition for my gun because it is used for reenactments. I recently moved house and my new Firearms Officer came out for a home visit. He was very nice, but checked the barrel of my gun with a torch. I can only assume it was to look for marks left in the barrel, to see if I had been firing balls out of my musket. To own black powder in Northern Ireland requires a explosives licence. The explosive branch are actually wonderful to work with. An explosive license is also required for the precision caps for my musket, however due to new carriage legislation, carriers are refusing to transport caps to Northern Ireland. Our historical society has about 200 caps left for the entire group. After this we don't know what we can do. I do believe in strick gun control, but we live in a nanny state, that is often idiotic because the people making decisions on gun certificates know nothing about guns themselves. The are often civilian staff who have never held a gun in their hands. Have any of you ideas on how our group can import caps for our muskets into Northern Ireland? Any help would be welcome!

WRT the home visit: both Flemish Gemeentes I've lived in have had a significantly less friendly home visit simply for moving in.

Basc have proved themselves unworthy of our support in recent years. They may only be worth bothering with for insurance but little else.

My British Friend! Miss You Kevin my buddy!! :(

Thanks, very informative. Loving the Ace shirt. Nick from the Ace

Jesus i couldent live somewhere like that

My god I go through 1500 rounds minimum in a single range day. I would die in Britain from withdrawal.

Bloke has one of those farmers' Edelweiss shirts on (bought one last week). I would say thank God I'm now in Switzerland and don't have to put up with such silliness (well, it's not God, but a long-term, well executed plan that I'm here).

I have no idea how much ammunition I have. Come to think of it I'm not sure how many guns I own.

*_¡MOZOLTOV!_* Here in Nevada, you can buy a belt fed automatic autocannons with incindiary and hi-explosive rounds down at Harbor Freight. Just picked up a case of 25mm for my GAU-12/U I bought down at WalMart last month.

Does the police in the UK do daily records checks in firearms owners?

Good luck in UK

6:40 Not in my club or any other club Iv'e heard about... Your reason for wanting said firearm/s is justified via you being a member of a target shooting club - if it can be fired there (or even at another range/club altogether that you have access to) and is UK legal, then you can have it, prior experience is irrelevant. Iv'e lost count of the number of variations Iv'e put in over the yrs and not once was I asked "why do you need that" etc. That would only happen if you kept asking for a firearm of the same calibre and function over and over e.g I can justify 3 or 4 semi-auto .22s but after that they might refuse. Photocopying evidence of a shoot you've done? Again Iv'e never come across that, not once... All that said I have heard that Bisley especially can be very nannyish though, so perhaps that was the main factor here. The probation period can be as little as 3 months also but admittedly is often 6. A year in NI but then all handguns are legal.

His club also sounds like particular ball breakers in regard ammo limits too... 200 rds is ridiculously low compared to other numbers Iv'e seen thrown around and what Iv'e been granted myself. It does vary wildly though. Really they ought to do away with the whole ammo limit thing altogether because it doesn't make the slightest difference to public safety.

The English Bill Of Rights is for all time , Act 7 is the right to be armed . It is British Gov policy to restrict our ability to own firearms . This is unlawful and unconstitutional . No statuts can be enacted that infringe on our rights as stated in the Bill Of Rights .

Interesting ref the shooting record, my club dosnt have an armoury, so I cant shoot until I get my FAC, or does this mean I wont? I've done the probation training etc, gone to watch/learn at matches etc. Worried now.

I LOVE THIS CHANNEL!!!! BUT..... I have to say how disgusted I am at the absurdity of this discussion... It's very sad and down right scary to believe civilized people put up with this nonsense.. I really cant wrap my head around the craziness of round counting and powder weight. I should be glad I have the "right" and not the "privilege". Please keep us informed like this BOR, so I can let my neighbors know how bad it can get with socialism calling the shots.....

I would like to own an Enfield one day.

Jesus so glad I live in the US

hi can you reload ?... I have 20 kilos nitro powder and 5 kilos black powder every five years, but you can get more.

After my permit in Canada I simply walk into any shop, pick out my favourite non-restricted firearms, (basically not pistols or American or American military guns) and walk out the door immediately after paying for the gun and a case of ammo. Somehow we have no gun violence to speak of here.

You don't have to join a club to get a FAC, having land to shoot on that is suitable and suitable quarry for the calibre is all you need.

How much that gun go for?

Variation is £20

RIP "gun rights", also very informative

It took me maybe 6 or 7 months to get my hunting license in sweden, and I can now own 6 long guns. You do have to "justify" each license, but its not hard at all. How hard is it to get a hunting license in the UK?

Move back to Italy why you can!!!!!

Very interesting, but I'm confused about the ammunition limit. You said it gets noted on your licence, and your licence is for five years, correct? Does that mean that's all the ammo you can shoot for five years? What happens when you run out of ammo? Or if you run out of .303, but still have some .308 left? Is the limit per firearm? Only one state in Australia has an ammo limit, and it's basically stated as "Not more than you can use in twelve months". I shoot tens of thousands of rounds every year, though mostly rimfire. When I was shooting IPSC, every shoot was a minimum of 100rds, so you'd take 200rds and do some practicing as well as the shoot. And you'd have extra ammo you could give to the twit that left his ammo at home. I load all my own centrefire ammo and try to keep at least 600rds on hand for each chambering I shoot, plus a couple of slabs of 12ga. (I don't shoot much 12ga.), and a few cases of rimfire. The idea is to never find myself getting down to just a few hundred rounds of centrefire, or less than a case of rimfire at any time.

:(

This is a tragic story.

200 rounds for the life of the license?

TVP?

On the one hand, the laws are draconian compared to here in Canada. On ther other, the actual processes and people involved seem to be nicer to deal with. Our Police are just awful to deal when it comes to firearms or firearms paperwork. There's no way they'd ever come around for biscuits and tea with you!

Here in Aus its crazy simple(for long guns) by comparison, a little time consuming but more wait than anything else. Source a "valid reason",many ways to go about this, could be as simple as a few $ permit to hunt pests on crown land or a club membership. Sit the safety course,which if you somehow manage to fail you probably shouldn't own a gun. Send of all the rubbish and wait 28 days,as long as papers filled out correct and you aren't a criminal, you will have a license fr catA+B which is pretty well everything thats not semi auto or pump action shotgun.Supposed to be a 28 day delay for permit to acquire first gun/s but often this is done concurrently with the application, so after the first 28 days your ready to go. Acquiring further guns we just apply for permit (normally digitally) at the shop we buy gun from, prior to a recent event this used to take as little as 15 minutes, now the permits take a few days,because reasons...Until you start getting well into double figures OR you try to get a 4th firearm (centrefires, they don't seem to care about air rifles,rimfire and double/single barrel shotties as much) that is essentially identical to 3 you already have,they tend to leave you alone.Sometimes people just have to write a BS letter justifying why they need that 4th 303 or what not,never happened to me.Ive heard of people being asked for "please explain" when they get to 5 centrefires, but I'm well past that and i never got asked.Has been some crap of late (in certain states, we do have different laws) with them knocking back permits for 338lap and 50bmg, but i know of at least one guy who beat them in court. Im yet to hear of a crime being committed with a large caliber AMR...