I have a HKM6 with Mastergrade Ziricote. It was the first one built and a lot of the work was done by hand then digitized do it could be reproduced on CNC.
I liked the scrutiny from your perspective and it’s all very valid. I worked at a mom and pop music store for 7 years and unboxed/setup countless guitars from most of the major manufacturers. I can honestly say that this is better than most of what came across my bench. Considering their business model is competitively priced, USA made, customized guitars, at volume. I think they’re making a decent product. As far as the customer service side of things, I get it. When you don’t have a logistical separation between manufacturing and retail, people ask for things all the time that are completely unreasonable. even if it seems reasonable, it still represents workflow interruption which costs money and leads to versioning mistakes.
I love how transparent and honest you were during this review. Kiesel almost has a cult of fans who defend them when it comes to people criticizing the brand or Jeff, the owner. I was going to pull the trigger on a build but I think for the money I could get something more quality elsewhere. Thank you.
Kiesel is way overhyped. It also triggered me to buy a used one years ago to try it out. Luckily for me I didn't bought new because I was not so happy.
For "non returnable" options, it usually comes down to a couple of things. 1) Their ideas of what options are going to be harder for them to sell should they get it back after the trial period. For someone to buy an in-stock, most people would be "settling" for the specs, and unless it was perfect, most people would prefer to just wait a few months for the exact specs. Some people are just buying them to skip the wait, but that's not a whole lot of incentive. These options can change over time. Trans black bursts used to be non-returnable, for example. 2) They want to limit impulse buys for new options where they don't know how they will sell yet. That's why compound radius is non-returnable. They wanted to offer it for those who really want it, but didn't want to get stuck with a bunch of guitars ordered with it right when it came out, and then returned. Same with scalloped fretboards. And it's worth noting that just because something seems popular in the greater guitar market, that doesn't mean it sells well to Kiesel customers. 3) Some things are limited because their supply is limited, and they don't want people ordering it and using up their supply on impulse buys, like with the roasted maple and pale moon ebony. They can only roast so much because it's a very long process, to the point where they limit it to mostly just bolt-ons, because neck-throughs take up too much space in their kilns, and they couldn't keep up. Pale moon is an interesting one, because they won't even let you spec it unless you've crossed a minimum $ threshold, AND they don't allow Kiesel artists to buy guitars with it. Jeff might build an artist a special guitar with it every once in a while as a gift, but they can't get it on guitars they order themselves. It doesn't necessarily have to do with the price of the option, as a lot of people are commenting. You can add a $500 top, and a $400 7--piece neck upgrade, and it's returnable, for example. It's more complicated than that, and there's lots of exceptions both ways. In reference to your build, you misspoke about ziricote fretboard...but amusingly they actually to offer ziricote fretboards (it's just not on the builder...same with cocobolo, monkeypod tops, sometimes amboyna burl, flamed or burled redwood tops, etc)...but their supply is SO limited they save it for people willing to go through the extra step to call in. I have it on my Kiesel SH6. Stainless frets are standard on all Kiesels except for a few signature models (the Andy James and Frank Gambale both use nickle, and at least one of the Dan Sugarman variants has the gold-colored frets). A bummer your tuners don't seem to be working correctly. I like the ones on my 2016 and 2020 so much better than the Sperzels they used to use. As for the clear finishes, their gloss and satin are polyester polyurethane. Spraying nitro isn't easy/cheap to do in California. It's not impossible, but a regulatory pain and expense. Their tung oil used to be Minwax tung oil finish, but I haven't heard that re-confirmed in quite a few years. They haven't said what their "ultra-thin raw tone satin" finish is. IMO, that spot at 20:20 couldn't be sanded out. The one at 2015, maybe, but not the 2nd one, I don't think. I think some of their inflexibilities with shipping and spec changes stem from the fact that they have to make some option and procedural compromises to be able to sell 4,000 made-to-order guitars in a year, which they have to do to keep the guitar prices down. An example of a compromise that you noticed: on the bolt-on Aries you built, you noticed that they only offered tung oil necks. They *used* to offer satin and gloss necks as well. However, due to the amount of work that it takes to tape off the neck and fretboard, as well as the additional work to that goes into a perfect-fitting neck pocket with a clear-finished neck, they just decided that they were going to have to charge too much for it that it just wasn't worth their time. You can still get a finished neck on a neck-through and set-neck, but even then, it's not a cheap option. So by defailt, all necks are tung oil standard (which used to be an option they charged for), except for on a couple of signature models).
Interesting information, thanks for the huge comment! COrrect it's Royal ebony - not Zircote. For some reason I though I ordered Zircote so I was expecting to see it. Thanks again for all this info, I might take some notes here for my own guitar business once I begin selling them soon on kleshguitars.com
My order would have stopped at the very first "non returnable" item! Those words do not exist in my world when purchasing a guitar that cost over $2K! I really don't give a shit what their reason is. I take spending my money very seriously.
@@ScottJanzer 10 day trial period? There is no "trial period on their instruments. Once you click your custom order that is that. there is no changing it. I have read far too many horror stories from people that have ordered from Kiesel. Worst customer service ever!
@@These_go_to_eleven_1959 No, there is no changing an order once you submitted. That's not what a "10 day trial period" refers to. As long as you are not choosing "non-returnable" options, you have 10 days to decide if you want to keep it. Don't like the customized guitar that was built-to-order? Return it, and you're just out shipping. And happy customers *far* outweigh those with bad experiences. Even if there were 3 horror stories every single month (which there doesn't seem to be), that'd still be less than 1% since they sell over 4,000 a year.
I have three Kiesel guitars and they are stunning! Extremely well-made in every way and sound incredible. There's no way you can get a guitar of this quality at this price point anywhere else!
That's not true. Not to criticize Kiesel, I'm actually interested in ordering one, but there are plenty of brands offering arguably better built guitars at a comparable price. ESP comes to mind. You can get a PRS CE that will be impeccable build quality, not a single flaw, and some of the best stock tuners you'll ever come across. Explore the market and I think you'll find better builds for comparable prices. The draw for Kiesel is the customization options, not the build quality.
@@transmundanemusic I disagree, I've been playing for 46 years and I have owned all the brands, in my humble opinion what I stated remains true. But you enjoy brother and thank you.
I absolutely love luthiers ordering custom builds and reviewing the quality control and craftsmanship. It's beyond valuable to consumers imo. I know it's hard to regularly order for figure builds just to review,.....but when you do it's very much appreciated and valued. Thank you my friend. Subbing now.
FYI - 20:46 - Wood control cavity covers exist in the standard online Kiesel builder menu. You can get black plastic for no extra fee, Ebony for $50, and Purpleheart for $50 as well.
Dude, I just bought a used A6 hipshot hardtail, just like this in the video! Except vintage cream white color with the same bevel, Maple neck and Birdseye fretboard! Stupid ridiculously cheap! And this thing just feels immaculate! The exact same super light swamp ash! I mean, the lightest guitar I have ever picked up..
Thank you for this great review. I ordered a custom Carvin 12-string solid mahogany back with quilted maple top 20 years ago. It's absolutely gorgeous with close to perfect craftsmanship. When I took delivery I noticed the book matching was misaligned, and they took it back and made me another guitar without any hesitation. However, I've watched a number of Kiesel videos lately, and I'm losing any inclination to order one of their guitars today--both for the quality and their corporate attitude. I think Kiesel himself is a real pompous jerk whom I would hate to have to deal with.
This is a proper guitar review. Thank you. What I have seen a few times is that the frets from 15-24 are a bit higher. Yes, the tuners suck. I'm also not a fan of Hipshot bridges. The sound of the guitar and standard Lithium pickups are good.
I was looking to order one. The idea of buying a $2500 guitar and then having to do work on it and replace the tuners and nut doesn't sound like a good idea. It seems most of what you are paying for are the exotic woods which I wasn't going to order anyway.
They don't use a plek machine and all their guitars have stainless steel frets. I have a ton of kiesels. I think they are amazing. To each his own though
Thanks for the video Klesh... I ordered a Kiesel about a month ago, can't wait to get it but am also nervous about the $3200 price versus what I will get... I have a $1400 Solar that plays amazing... hopefully the Kiesel will be superior!
Great video! Very detailed. You are nitpicky but that's perfect for this lol. From where I'm sitting, I also approve of that guitar! But you are right about that nut. Surprised it was shipped like that. Though, that's awesome they install brass inserts and shielding! Did not know that! Great details... FYI, a wooden cavity cover is an option. I think the upcharge is fairly reasonable too IIRC. Same thing for the truss rod cover. I personally prefer plastic because it won't warp on me. I've been eyeing a custom Aries 6 myself. I think I'll eventually pull the trigger... I just have a strong feel to brush up on my guitar playing first haha so I am worthy!
I dropped Carvin/Kiesel after stumping for them for decades. And their attitude is so atrocious! This price should assure everything works properly from the factory and never did for me. Sending it back for repair just puts you back another 3 months. How is that a good deal and if you have someone else repair it, you void the warranty! And pay for the repair on a supposedly custom instrument! And after the way Jeff Kiesel embarrassed that (absolutely justified) customer over that roasted neck incident, screw them.
My Carvin Icon 5 came with pretty bad finish defects. Had to send it back to have it repaired and Carvin claimed UPS lost it. Eventually months later my bass showed up with the finish repaired. Their customer service sucks!!! Not worth buying from them again even though they build nice instruments.
I made a wood tone, black, with bright green accents like the logo and dots and 12th fret K, with gold hardware aries that looked way sick. Try it out.
Buzzing may be subjective. Used to hate it but I tolerate it if the guitar plays fine and you don’t have any issues with note dying too fast. As a fellow Colorado person I appreciate this review. Every guitar has its beauty marks and goofy spots. If it can’t be see at a quick glance or from a few inches away I don’t really worry about it. Heard the term about “Monday guitars” “Wednesday guitars” and “Friday guitars” this one seems like a Thursday or Friday with that slight issue with the nut. That’s just me tho. Still a Beauty none the less.
You mentioned you would have liked to have ordered a single pickup guitar. I think they still have Option 50 which is for custons options not on the website.
I have 1980 Carvin cm130 full maple singlecut and it also has copper shield in electronics cavity. I think it's only one guitar company that make copper shields. Pickups are nice, neck is great, awesome access to the higher frets. Really great guitar. I bought it in 2010 (I think) for about 300$, but I had to refret it. Oh, it also has 80s style electronics: 2 humbuckers, splitting coils tumblers and phase changing tumbler. I want to purchase cs model in 7 strings, but they don't make them. But aries looks really good too, nice upgrade to superstrat shape.
Hey mate, fyi the fingerboard is ebony remember ? And you got the matching ebony peg head veneer 😂 and the nut was meant to be bone wasn’t it ? Keep up the good videos they are really informative
Really enjoyed the video and the immediate juxtaposition of the ordering process with the unboxing/review. The tuners are Hipshot tuners branded with the Kiesel logo. I have a Kiesel CT 6 and see no issue with the tuners. I wonder if they had been branded with the Hipshot name if you would've felt the same about them. The virtual builder is a really great tool but I would not recommend ordering off of it. It's always better to call and order on the phone. By ordering with a human you can get options that are not available on the virtual builder. On my CT 6 I did not want a truss rod cover, which is not an option on the builder but was no problem when ordering on the phone. I just ordered an Osiris HSS and instead of having the humbucker with a split coil i am having the humbucker go from series to parallel via a push pull pot on the volume and a " humbucker on" option via the tone push pull. This gives me essentially the prs fiore wiring/pickup configuration options.
Thanks, I didn't actually know they used Hipshot (my choice of bridges for my guitar builds) and really didn't even know Hipshot made tuners. They honestly do suck, at least compared to Gotoh or Sperzel stuff. I'll have to make a video specifically on the tuners to show in detail the problems I'm having with mine, my comment is kind of worthless since you're having to take my word for it here. I wonder if Kiesel are using authentic hipshot tuners? I know some larger companies don't use OEM parts, for instance Gibson use "Grover" tuners, but they're actually knockoffs that just say "Grover" and are make with cheaper materials.
@bob32069 @KleshGuitars The tuners aren't Hipshot. If I remember right, they are Jin Ho. But it's also worth mentioning that while Hipshot does make their headless bridges, headpieces and their fixed bridge and trem in the US, their tuners are not made in the US. I *believe* (but could be wrong about Jin Ho) both Hipshot and Jin Ho are made in South Korea. People commonly think they are hipshot in comment sections and on their Facebook page, but they aren't Hipshot. In one of the live Q&As in the past maybe 2 months, Jeff re-confirmed that they are not "Hipshot" when someone asked, but they've not stated specifically who made them. However, if you remove one and look at the back, there's a code embossed in the casting that says "JIN".
@@ScottJanzer Oh thanks! I knew they were too cheap feeling and poor quality to be actual Hipshot tuners. I get cutting costs but they really need to look at better options , at least in my opinion. I mean, these tuners are BAD
I wouldn't ask 'why does this make it non returnable' but I'd ask what other custom shop gives you a 10 day trial period on ANY custom guitar? The fact that people might select options that are harder to resell is normal, there are many crazy custom guitars out there. I definitely wouldn't want to resell a lime green, pink and yellow guitar... :) Some years ago they did allow order changes, and the invoicing is just one part- you then have to run around the shop and find the guitar (one out of maybe 500-1500 guitars that are being made at any time) and it kills their efficiency. People were also abusing this so at some point they said no order changes at all, which is fair enough. Nobody forced you to hit the 'buy' button, you have all the time in the world to think about your specs.
Thanks for that info yes I agree for the most part. However, what if you ordered a guitar with one of these non-returnable options, and there's a structural problem or something, and needs to be returned? I'm sure they'd take it back and either repair or replace. I know i'm answering my own question here but wondering how customer service is in that respect.
Basically any really custom choice or big price upcharges make the instrument non-returnable because it would make it harder to resell if it were returned
if you really want to try a kiesel, i would find one secondhand thats even close to your liking. They retain about 40% of their value on the market, so you can pick up a 2600 dollar set up for about 1000 (which is what i did with a neck through aries). The bonus is you can sell it for the same or higher price depending on if you find the right buyer, but you probably won't lose out on a lot of money selling a secondhand kiesel.
@@Cognitoman no idea. i love mine personally and won't be selling it. i'm pretty sure its the fact each one is custom made to the order of a specific individual. no one really designs a guitar for themselves that has mass appeal, but rather one that THEY want, because kiesel's guitar builder is the most customizable and comprehensive guitar builder out there, you can end up with some pretty polarizing design choices, all the way down to the color of the pickup poles. no one will pay 2k for a 4k kiesel if it's covered in wacky shit like a seafoam green sunburst with koa or zebrawood or flamed maple showing through. and most people replace the pickups from the factory with fishmans, seymour duncan, dimarzio, etc.
They usually don't take apart guitars to use parts, but if someone cancelled an order before the guitar was finished, they might switch up the finish, hardware and electronics to spec they think they could have an easier time selling as an in-stock.
I’ve designed a $3400+ Zeus model numerous times. I’d take a Kiesel if they were to give me one since they are the only major guitar company I have any interest in.
They told me the same thing about having to go to a Fed Ex location. Originally, I wanted it delivered to a mail center. Usually, packages are delivered there with no problem. They said Fed Ex wouldn't deliver there.
I have one of these from 2016 and mine seems to be quite a bit better in quality than this one. That buzzing would drive me nuts. May be just a truss rod adjust but at this price, these things should be top notch in every way. I know when I got mine built, they had just moved to the new factory and the Aries was a fairly new model. I also don't think they were doing the near the volume in sales as they are now plus the employees at that time had been with the company a long time, except their painter. I'm kinda disappointed with what he got here.
Nice guitar but black limba is too grainy for me. My 5 piece maple/black limba js awesome though. Fast neck especially with 20' radius. My Vader was playable out the box with no mistakes or imperfections from what I could tell. I just ordered an Aries. Should be here in about a month. I’ll give it a look like you did with yours.
Yeah the Black limba (like Mahogany) has a lot of pores to fill, my black limba neck has been pore filled though (no grans can be seen or felt). However, personally I actually prefer the grains to not be filled, I like the natural look and feel of the wood. Everyone has a preference I suppose
The only thing that I would be curious about would be how many craftsman had there hands on that guitar I would say at least 6 but thats just a guess. Looks to me you got your moneys worth out of it the only thing I would change would be the swamp ash keep the videos coming loving the new direction.
@@KleshGuitarsOfficial I think that a Mahogany or a Brazilian Rosewood would have looked better with the wood that you choose on the front but thats just me. But I do under stand why the swamp ash for the lightness of it.
They have around 60 employees, if i remember right. I wouldn't be surprised if the number or people who touch a guitar was closer to 10...but it also depends on what options you get. In the spray booth, final setup, and body CNC, that's already 3 people. The person gluing the body blanks might be the same person laying up tops and headstock veneer. The person who winds the pickups might also be installing the electronics, but that might be two people. The person installing the frets may or may not be the person installing inlays, etc.
Beautiful looking guitar. But that nut was a mess, not even close to acceptable. No way the first 5 frets are intonating. Agree that the tuners look cheap. I didn't recognize pots but I always prefer CTS. Not sure what kind of tone cap that was. Impossible to really hear how it sounded here but didn't like what what I did hear. Pretty wood doesnt always sound great and I question the sustain this one gets. For such an in depth review it would really do the guitar justice to hear how it sounds, especially clean.
I was about to place an order on a neck through 7 from them for nearly 5k. After watching this video and a few others, they will not be recieving my money under any circumstance.
Well thank you. Mine are still in the "prototype" phase, there are things I plan on changing as I go forward with the Klesh Guitars line of instruments. Always will try to improve, although I know they'll never be "perfect" but I can try!
I think They make great guitars, but if something is wrong or they did something that you didn’t want to the guitar , it’s a bitch to get the issues fixed or get your money back... so I don’t buy from them anymore
Exactly my experience also. Never buying from them again. Got my Icon 5 with horrible buffing waves in it. Only way to fix it was to respray the finish and level it. Carvin was so difficult to deal with (eventually they fixed it) it was a horrible experience. Never buying a Carvin/Keisel again.
@@KleshGuitarsOfficialI ordered ebony and got royal ebony instead. I didn’t complain about it even though I preferred a solid black fret board instead. But I did complain about the horrible finish they did, and got treated really poorly. Thankfully they fixed it but it took several weeks of arguing and trying to figure out where my bass was after they claimed “UPS lost it”
It’s interesting that you were annoyed at Kiesel for not changing your order even though as you mentioned it clearly states that you can’t make changes. I’m sure Kiesel were equally annoyed at you for wanting to make changes even though it clearly states that you can’t make changes lol
Well, I'm the customer and if something annoys me, it's something I'm going to change for my own guitar business. If someone wants a change, I'm willing to work with you if i'm not that far into the build.
nuts are glued in-- The guitar got shipped its going to need a set up after that- I go jam with people drive an hour the guitar will go out of tune from bouncing -
Kiesel is infamous for their horrible customer service. I almost bought one last week and went with a nice Charvel instead. MJ dk24 series. For the price of Kiesel, you can get much better quality from somewhere else. Lookup other build vs reality videos. There’s some real horror stories out there.
"I'm going to intentionally ask them to do something I know they will not do, and now I'm angry because they wouldn't do it." Way to be victimized by your own bait attempt.
Doesn’t hurt to ask... I asked if they could put a Icon headstock shape on a BB bass. They wouldn’t do it. I hated the headstock on the BB (looks like a broken foot) but liked the body design better than the Icon. Bought the Icon because that damn headstock shape is hideous on the BB.
@@bob32069 if you enjoy being overcharged, go ahead... For my 30th birthday (so 5 yrs ago) I gifted myself a custom guitar made by a local luthier. Custom body and headstock to my own designed (shared and reviewed with the luthier), set neck, mahogany body with olive burl top, mahogany neck with blackwood fretboard and nightswan inlays, Graphtech nut, Hipshot tremolo, Hipshot Grip-Lock tuners, 2 Bareknuckles humbucker (Holydiver + VHII) with custom covers, satin poli finish, volume and tone with push-push split. Grand total: €2750 . Using a revaluation calculator, it should made up to €2900 in 2022, which with current exchange is basically $2900 Only quality issue I found was that the neck edges on 1st and 2nd fret were a little too sharp for my taste. Given all the custom features I wanted, I'd say were $500 well spent We're talking about a series production item here. Saying that a different brand will charge you more, doesn't justify the trouble found in this one, since as in all good for sale brand value is always charged. Problem is whether a guitarist buys a guitar simply as an instrument to play or also as form of long/short term investment. In latter case, please go ahead and buy as many household brand guitars you want, but don't complain about QC issues. These will keep on happening as long as the customers will keep on buying guitars of that brand (Gibson?). In the former, the better guitar/money ration will not be found in high end custom guitars made by big OEMs. You might find it in the middle range, or if you want a high end guitar, at you (local) luthier shop.
Kiesel Guitars became crappy when the company decided to turn "custom" into mass produced. You might get better quality from China these days,, and at half the price. That is why America is going to fail in the modern guitar market.
So in the past few years China has refined their building techniques and machinery making even higher quality guitars, compared to a 1990's or 2000's Chinese made "anything". However you won't see chinese made instruments with these quality hardwoods/exotic woods. I'm sure the majority of these guitars are put into a CNC and popped out like pop tarts, but the assembly and use of exotic woods make up for that even with a lack of hands on craftsmanship.
@@KleshGuitarsOfficial I build guitars myself. The difference in cost to make a guitar with "exotic hardwoods", compared to one made of mahogany and maple, averages $200. You yourself said that the tuners on this Kiesel guitar are junk. Now imagine what other parts they will use to save money in production. Just like the Chinese manufacturers used to do....but now they have upped their game. You actually get good quality hardware on $500 Chinese guitars. What did you pay for that Kiesel? $1000? more?
@@timhallas4275 Yep this was around $2600 and yeah for the price (even with inflation included) is pretty pricey for what you get, just like anything these days. They should have higher quality tuners and electronics for that price. Also As you can see in this video, the exotic top is only 3/16" thick, but at least there IS an exotic top / PHV / FB / Neck option. I'd say for the customization and quality of this guitar, I'm pretty happy with it. Much better than some other guitars comparable in price, for instance the Gibson Les Paul and Flying V videos I did a few months back. The prices are similar but the quality in my opinion is better with Kiesel guitars.
@@KleshGuitarsOfficial I put good quality hardware on my budget priced guitars. I use mahogany or ash for bodies and maple for necks. What you get for your money (usually under $1200) is pro quality hardware, great sounding pickups, quality pots and switches and superb frets. You'll never have to "set up" a GT guitar after it arrives. I think Kiesel is tapping into that boutique market with his reputation, but delivering sub-standard guitars that look good in the ads. A few years ago, he made great custom shop stuff. Those days are over.
@@timhallas4275 Interesting, yeah I never played or looked at an older one. What pots/switches/OJ's do you use? I use the stewmac ones for my builds, never had a problem. Tuners I use are Gotoh (mini buttons) for all -
