Killing Off Your Character Doesn't Make Your Story Good 

>watches JoJo Part 2 >knows Caesar is going to die when they give him a bunch of backstory >still cries when Caesar died

Whuuuuuut? How could the character who was excited to finally get out of here and get on a boat to finally propose to their significant other and meet their child for the first time, being only 2 days away from retirement have died?

Dying in Dragon Ball isn't supposed to be serious, they don't treat it like a character going away, they just treat it like "well he's gone for a month"

>JoJo isn't high art >Is literally displayed in the Louvre, along with all the other high art >What

Reuploading your video doesnt mean youtube wont kill it

Akame ga kill was basically the edgier berserk they even have a potato girl and it got a shitty adaptation

Kamina's death from Gurren Lagann was definitely impactful. I was actually depressed after he died and debated whether or not I should have kept watching the anime. I'm glad I did.

I love videos where i don't completely agree with the examples, but that definitely get the point across! great vid ma dude!

DONT YOU TALK BAD ABOUT MY JOJO real talk: an insane regeneration ability is like standard fare for any jojo series. If they decided to make the fights more grounded the show would cease to be Bizarre and would be another typical battle shonen. Half of the fun of JOJO is watching the main characters get wreckt and come out on top in a creative manner. Dont take away half of the formula

Carl's death gave me the opposite reaction. At the heart of the Walking Dead's story, you had a father raising his family in a zombie apocalypse. Without Carl that heart is gone. I don't see how the story could end any other way than in tragic pointlessness. So yeah, not watching it anymore.

I respectfully disagree with a lot of the points you made, though it was interesting. The Death flag, where characters narrate their life before obviously dying, really needs to end though...

I disagree with you that Josuke's crazy diamond breaks tension. Because they still CAN die. We never feel bad about characters getting simply wounded. We don't lose anything, so emotionally we don't care. Heroes getting hurt just shows the enemy is strong. But limbs and lives we react to more because something was actually taken away from us as viewers. Josuke does fix the limbs thing, but death is still very possible. That was the point being established woth his grandad's death. In addition, in DiU there is always the question, CAN josuke manage to heal them?

I think that's the reason people are bored of the walking dead. Everytime they get to a point where they just don't know where to take the story they kill someone off, and then repeat the same old fucking story they used the last time. Find someplace they think is safe, get attacked by some rouge group/Bandits or zombies (In the case of season 2), fight them, fail, Move to new location they think is safe. Wash, rinse, repeat. It's so old and uninteresting because you know what's going to happen before it does. I think if they had stuck to the comics it would have lasted a lot longer. TellTales game's have a better story than the show does right now and it's sad.

Akame ga kill manga ended a while back, it was still running when the anime came out tho. And although I prefer the manga end over the anime end they weren't THAT different

It doesn't make the story bad either. Good writing makes the story. Characters surviving or dying as a result of good writing happens all the time.

You kinda failed to give a GOOD example of a character death. Let me do it for you; Kamina from Gurren Lagann. He matches none of your criteria. A. He doesn't get an exposition dump right away and is paced out for him and everyone over the episodes. B. He doesn't have "I will die or turn evil" stamped on his forehead. C. He is effectively in contest for main character for the episodes he is alive. He's both the driving force behind the team, energetic and charming and the center of attention. D. Unlike other expendable meatbags you listed his usefulness was far from over, you actually cared for him and the other characters did as well; his lost affected them throughout the entire series(and the viewer feels it as well). He is a prime example of a character death done right. Impactful , sudden and leaves a obvious hole in the cast throughout the rest of the series.

Strange how people saw AOT like that. I always think that the deaths are just there to show the viewer that anyone can die and they aren't completely powerful. Makes it seem less like your standard shonen sometimes.

Also, disagree with the stuff about JoJo. (I know I have a jojo profile picture frick off) Like most of the fights in Diamond is Unbreakable are either completely separate from Josuke with different characters, have Josuke completely alone, or have Josuke at a distance where he can't heal his friends. So, I don't think his powers really take away any tension from the fights. And having a healing character pretty much becomes essential after part 3, anyways, with how deadly and complicated some of the enemies stands become.

I disagree with Attack on Titan’s author being “shitty”. If you’ve gotten caught up it’s obvious he’s thought as least the main outline of the plot all the way through. Personally, while it might have been more interesting for Eren to have straight up died in the short run, it would have eventually turned into an anime walking dead. But with the direction that happened we ended up with a much more compelling story.

Her last words were meat....

I feel like Jojo's example was a miss. The whole series had a good bunch of characters dying and in the end of the first part the main Jojo even dies (I'm not even going to talk about future parts but believe me, they keep on with this). Jojo's part 4 is actually a subversion within a series that tends to kill off main characters by the end of its main arcs.

1:30 Man of culture

I think Kutner's death was actually brilliantly pulled off in House. It's unexpected and crude, like most suicides tend to be. House, who usually has an excellent grasp on other people's attitudes and actions is caught completely by surprise. He couldn't cope with his death, even obsessing over it. It was a huge trigger to his mental decline and final arc of the 5th season.

can you upload this video every day

Haha, the *If they show the backstory outta nowhere, they are going to die* is more than true. Take Walking Dead, Akame Ga Kill, or Attack on Titan and especially Naruto... They NEVER cared about person XY and suddenly explain the backstory of him. Or, in the case of Naruto *HEAVY* Plotarmor. Walking Dead sure is the worst example of this: A: The Usefulness of character XY Ran out B: He was a walking meatpack designed to die from the beginning C: Cheap ass Shock Value (ohmahgerd guys glenn did die, he didnt roll under the dumpster xdddd) And the Fanbase made themselves cringy yet again. As for JoJo, like i always say: JoJo takes a different path in every single Part. Maybe try Diamond is Unbreakable again, i did appreciate it way more after watching it again. Every Part has its own reasons to watch, and Yoshikage Kira and Bite Za Dusto is exactly that. It *DOES* take the Tension for Josuke being to heal anyone, but we can't pretend that JoJo does this in every Part. Jonathan Joestar died right in Part 1. Caesar Zeppeli, Iggy, Avdol, Kakyoin died in Part 2-3. Joseph became a senile Man. I think JoJo does have the perfect balance in having interesting Characters, but still dont giving them Plot Armor and Survival forever. I mean, killing Main Characters IS important, but you need to find a balance. Otherwise you find yourself killing off the only characters that made your show watchable.

I think the writting in AOT is actually pretty great, read the manga

Akaki wrote in a healing character because in past parts, injury was played off as little to nothing aside from the occasional cases like Kakyoin and Avdol. Avdol was suppose to die, then he brought him back because reasons. (there is a lot of youtube videos about this so you don't need top travel off site to find this) He added someone who could heal so that the next ep people wouldn't just be resting and healing, nor would they need to go to a hospital. people still died in Jojo's part 4. I don't see why you brought it up, maybe to add "Jojo's" to the tag to get more people to watch? either way, id be interested to hear what you liked more. Part 3 where injury didn't matter, or at least matter very little, or part 4, where he tried to at least add something to add sense to it.

Gonna have to disagree with you at that My Hero Academia clip. Mina Ashida is clearly best girl.

I feel like lots of character death makes it hard to get into a piece of fiction. I feel like Supernatural is a good example of this. Almost everyone that isn't Sam or Dean dies and never gets revived. This makes it so you have literally no one else to get invested in. Obviously, this is ignoring how Supernatural has hugely jumped the shark to begin with, but yeah

I'm surprised that you left out George R.R Martin and his wheel of death for Game of Thrones

I always hate the "eren should have died!!!11!11!!!" argument because its so dumb and Attack on titan would probably become another walking dead(just humans trying to survive and dying, which gets so boring). The inclusion of Eren being a shifter is what made Attack on Titan really interesting and exciting. It added mystery and excitement in the sense of "hey maybe humanity does have a shot at surviving". If you take away that, its just another "zombie" show where people die and there is no "end" in sight. thats boring and unoriginal.

The backstory-is-death trope is so common. I'm sick to death of it. "Oh, you're actually giving this guy some character development? Good, the cast needs something different. And I kinda like this character now, I want to see what's going to happen in the fut- oh." Now it's like. "Shit, he's getting character development. Time to stop caring, because don't look now, the Grim Reaper is tapping you on the shoulder." It's just -so- manipulative.

8:12 "They make me seem smarter than I actually am" You said it yourself 😂😂😂

I lost it at Yoko Taro. He's the perfect candidate to not try to bullshit his stories. -Unless he's getting paid to, the guy doesn't hide what he'd do for money-

This video is what got me into watching Attack on Titan. Now it's one of my favorite anime / manga series. Goddamnit.

JoJo deaths are very good though. They hurt because you are experiencing the journey WITH them and you feel like they're unstoppable. Until....

Deleting your video does not make your video better

Another defense i would pose for jojo part 4 is the fact that we are shown that kira has essentially the ability to instakill making him a particularly dangereus foe and thus making him seem like more of a threat but hey dats just me

I would like to voice one criticism I have with your video: your argument is solid and I agree with the fact that death in a plot must have meaning and weight in order to have effective impact, but you didn't really exemplify any stories where death WAS handled properly with impact, except perhaps the Brian's Death arc on Family Guy (which I don't even want to count since it was done almost solely for shock value, although I admit hiding the way they brought him back in what would normally be considered a throwaway gag was more clever than I would've given them credit for otherwise). Just for next time use the essay style video like this, it would benefit your argument to include examples that meet your expectations of what character death should entail rather than simply ragging on some shows that did it wrong and calling it a day.

In the case of JoJos there was always someone who acts as a "healer" so whenever a character fights and the episode ends, they'll be healed right away for the next episode so they won't stay fucked up for the next few episodes cause they play major roles and major character interactions in battles. It's a show that focuses on fights for most of the time.

at some point it starts getting annoying the eren should have died argument, it's like, we like your story, but you should have written a different story

*cough* game of thrones *cough*

What about when Araki kicked of Jojo by killing off Jojo and then proceeded to touch you in the feelys by killing Avdol Kakyoin and Iggy

Being willing to kill your characters does not automatically make your story good, but being unwilling too will almost always make your story weaker than it could be.

You see kamina's death was how its done we were or at least I was so invested in that character the first time I watched it I thought he was the coolest guy ever and then when he died it was so sad but I do feel like they dragged his oldest out to long like if you're gonna make a character depressed in a show like that you need to go all out and make it to the point where they become so useless that someone else takes the lead for a decent amount of time or they are depressed for like half an episode which I mean gurren lagann did that almost perfectly really my only gripe was how long they complained about Kamina I understand he was a cool character and all and he was a brother and a lover and the coolest damn guy but seriously

When the Levi Squad died on AOT I was truly disheartened. They had a clear future, even the one who bit his tongue. Maybe another trick to make a character likable is to make a clear future for them.

I disagree with the argument that eren should have stayed dead, at the time the entire series was anything too special, it was essentially just zombies in the form of giants as another comment pointed out , but eren not dying moved the plot forward and also gave humanity a way to fight back as at the rate they were going, they would have all been killed, and it also let the traitorous trio know who they needed to target, which would lead to rests of the scouts knowing that eren isn't the only one with that ability. While the beginning of the series did rely heavily on the pointless deaths, it didn't happen as much, especially in the uprising arc. Not to mention that it did give off a sense of dread, as having the main character " dead " made the audience believe that no one was safe ( at least for that short period of time ). While I don't think attack on titan is perfect by any means, it is definitely better than what the author originally planned out.

I can see what you're saying, but I think you miss the point of some deaths. Not every death is about the person dying as much as it's about the situation they die in. For Example: In AoT the "meat bags" weren't meant to matter, but more so set the tone of the series. They were there to basically tell us that this world is grim and fucked up and that humanity has no chance. This is why Eren didnt need to die. When he returned as the Titan it created the idea that maybe humanity wasnt screwed. This is why it worked, because his escape from the jaws of death( pun intended) was the first true feeling of hope the series had provided and made the story much more enjoyable going forward. I also am going to defend DBZ here as well. Yes death is meaningless in DBZ, but again it's not so much about their deaths as it is about the story surrounding them. Giokos death at the beginning of the Saiyan saga is far mor pivotal than its given credit for. If he hadn't died we would arguably have never gotten good Piccolo and if not for him, then everyone can kiss the most beloved character in Gohan goodbye. Then if we look at the other Z fighters and their demise we come to Yamcha. Yes, his death is a meme, but think about the situation presented. Yamcha was young optimistic, he tried to be a true leader of his friends and was immediately cut down l, which set the tone. Then think about Chiaotzu and Tein. The fight was a hopeless battle where our heroes were doing nothing but stalling for times in Hope's to save the world. Chiaotzu seein no other option, sacrificed himself in an effort to hopefully defeat at least one of the enemies...to fail. Tein heartbroken at losing his best friend, put absolutely everything in his final attack, not only for revenge but in hope it did something anything just...to...fail. Then we come to Piccolo the enemy of Goku, now sacrificing himself to save Gokus son, because Gohan showed him that there are things far more important than himself. I could go on and on about how deaths in DBZ are far more important than they are given credit for, but I think with those three examples I've made my point. I'm not saying that some deaths arent pointless, but what I'm getting at is that sometimes the deaths that seem pointless are more about the actual situation and not the death itself, and can forward the plot in a meaningful way. Personally, I think some series are better as a result of death(Ace from One Peice, Ned in GoT, and Jason Todd in Batman).

I don't understand some points made by you in a video. Though I agree that killing of main characters in your show/movie doesn't make it better but is just another way to manipulate viewers' emotions...it's okay to fall for it? If my favorite character (old or new) would die I'd be sad..because I like their storyline or as you say relate to them. So being like "Oh well, he dead, ok" kind of reaction is a bit psychopathic? Are you okay, dude?

I mean, you did use a main character's death (Eren) and a random character's death that will eventually be VERY important (Marco) to make up your point, so I don't think you watched or read the whole thing, but fine, it makes for a good point in your video

Marco was not even a full character. He was Half.

I perfectly agree. Killing off a character is not good on it's own. I hes/her death ment something for the story and for other characters than it can be good and fine.

Still dont get why Isayama is a bad writer.

Not liking the concept of a series does not mean its author is incompetent. "OH GOSH, HE RUINED ATTACK ON TITAN BY MAKING EREN TRANSFORM INTO A TITAN" If that didn't happen, it wouldn't have been Attack on Titan. It wouldn't have had any of the intrigue or tension in later arcs. The author does a fine job with the series on a functional story-telling level and respecting character death (Which is a bigger deal later on). I don't even really like Attack on Titan, but even I can understand that disliking the core concept of a show is just a sign that you should find a different show.

The extra bits were a very nice addition. I'm glad you went to the trouble.

So here’s a question. If there is a major character in a story that dies in the first episode but has strong after effects from that persons death, will it still be meaningless or would we have to learn that persons backstory too?

In response, I can only add a prime example of how not to do a character death to your evidence. Everyone say it with me: ROMAN TORCHWICK.

I completely agree with what you've pointed out in the video. Another good example of this, would be the infinity war movie which I myself didn't watch as I already knew what was going to happen i.e the death of half the avengers and half earth's population by just following the comics, facts and previous movies. I think most of the time it comes down to a viewer or fan of a particular series/book/comic/movie to successfully predict the finale but pretty much the hype factor makes it not possible.

Even better than the 1st one. Great vid

Tbh whenever it showed Marco's dead body I was like "Wait who was that again?"

Why do you do the whisper thing like redlettermedia?

And in the Harry Potter BOOKS did anyone else notice that Cedric suddenly got a shot ton of page time. Where was that page time in the last three books huh?

When it comes to the healing to JoJo, araki did that cause he wanted the ability to fuck up the protagonists more without having to constantly justify why they didn't die or just live horribly mutilated. I would have agreed with you that this kills the tension of the fights if he could bring you back to life. If you feel the way you do about the healing in JoJo do you also feel the same way with other series that feature characters with healing abilities?

I get sad about the meat puppets because- well- in universe they're just people and not bags of flesh with faces. You're hoping they don't die because they've done nothing wrong and seeing them on the sidelines and having more cast for good guys somehow feels gratifying. When that's taken away it's saddening. That's how I see it anyways.

ALL HAIL, Yako Taro

GEE THANKS FOR THE THUMBNAIL. This shit was right in my recomendations

Had to immediatly think of "Akame ga Kill" when I saw the title, lmao

In the case of your Eren argument, I feel that's what Gurren Lagann succeeded when they killed Kamina. We liked him and how h inspired his friends to fight the beastmen. And his death sent Simon into a downward spiral of depression and self doubt. We saw how his death affected the others and the threat the beast men posed until Simon was able to move on and rise back up in his brothers place. That's how a character death should be handled.

Man that guy that got the RIP Brian tatoo must have been pissed lol

I'm gonna disagree with your points about AoT. People take it as a show where anybody can die at any moment, and honestly, that isn't true (but this ain't a bad thing, cuz it FEELS like it is). Humanity as a whole gets slaughtered by the hundreds but our cast is for the most part fine because they consist of the dozen or so most capable people in the walls or fucking shifters; there's a reason why they're harder to kill. The "whoops Even wasn't dead" isn't a cop out, it's an establishment of tone and the introduction of the concept that all is not as it seems. While it would probably be a higher quality story if Isayama went deeper into the development of Eren's squad, it isn't bad writing. This is a story where humanity as a whole is losing and has no fucking idea how to fix it. The more they progress, the smaller the population gets, and the more they learn, the more confusing it becomes, and it's not like Isayama pulls these twists outta his ass or anything: they remain consistent throughout. While there is structure, I hesitate to call it a mystery because AoT does little to hint at what's actually going on, and I doubt the audience could piece anything together, but we're not meant to be able to. We are an observer meant to feel the hopeless struggle of humanity. Again, I agree with your video as a whole, and AoT would probably be better off if it treated its deaths as more than blank slates (with just enough humanity to be sympathetic) for people to project personality onto, just don't lump it in with shit like the walking dead, AoT doesn't reuse the same dramatic beats for the sake of shock value: everything has a purpose in the long run.

Wait... Then what's a death with good writing and how do we get it? I can't really see any other reason for why death occurs in stories. -create shock -create tension -hold the viewers attention -dramatic effect -show the story's seriousness

Looking at your thumbnail, I honestly thought this was a CineFix video until I saw your channel name, and even then I was like "Did Cinefix change their name?" It just looks so similar.

Only reason why still watch walking dead is because i want to see if they do it like the comics or not..

When the character(s) that dies in Episode 9 of "Devilman Crybaby", it moves the main character, Akira Fudo, foward and the story forward, which is basically a big, dramatized retelling of multiple cases of a group people being discriminated, like Parasite, or Tokyo Ghoul. Even though in the manga, the earlier animes/ movies, and the new anime have the same character(s) die ,but are very different even though it was/were the same character(s). It still moves the story by giving Akira more of a motivation.

This guy sounds like Eraserhead from My Hero Academia. I love it.

So is bad if i was sad with erwin death?

Is that Kamina from Gurren Lagann in your thumbnail together with Rick?

Do you plan on doing a "Everything wrong with Akame G Kill" video like your doing with Yugioh

The only death in Akame Ga Kill that got to me was Bols, because he was my favourite character from the second he appeared on screen.

To be fair, the stakes in DragonBall are actually a lot more dire than people give the series credit for, especially if you watch/read all the way from the beginning. -The first character to ever be revived was Bora, and before him, the possibility of using Shenron's wishes to bring somebody back from the dead never really crossed anyone's mind. To a lesser extent, there was also the issue of Goku journeying to get back his grandfather's four-star ball in the first place, which he would've lost for at least another year had he not been clever enough to jump up and grab it as soon as the balls scattered. -In the next arc, King Piccolo not only takes the wish for himself but actually KILLS Shenron immediately afterwards. It's only afterwards that Goku discovers the dragon itself could be revived so long as the creator of the Dragon Balls is there. -When Goku died after beating Raditz, Piccolo actually did downplay the whole thing. This turned out to be a mistake on his part, as it led to the Saiyans' arrival and Goku staying dead so he can train in the spiritual realm. -Piccolo getting killed by Nappa meant that there are no more Dragon Balls. While everyone remembers Freeza and Super Saiyan Goku and all that, it's worth keeping in mind that the whole point of the Namek arc was so they could revive their friends and get their own set of Dragon Balls back (plus, because Earth's balls can't revive anyone twice, it was initially assumed that Chaozu, and later Krillin, were dead for good). Also worth noting that they only realized Namek was a solution by paying close attention to the Saiyans' dialogue, and even then, actually getting there proved to be an obstacle. -Trunks came from a future that no longer had balls. Any time someone dies in his world, they stay dead. -Though Goku did recruit Dende soon afterwards (with the added convenience of Dende not being a fighter who constantly puts himself in danger), Piccolo merging with Kami resulted in a brief absence of the Dragon Balls. This meant the stakes were raised during their early bouts with Cell. Also, the balls still couldn't revive anyone twice and Namek was still too difficult to reach, so Goku stayed dead for seven years. -I would concede that the balls are getting to be too convenient of a crutch by the Buu saga, but even then, there were still a good number of complications. Bulma summoning Shenron too early and putting the next wish on hold for a few months, Buu actually succeeding in nuking the earth (and Dende would've went along with it had Goku not teleported him to safety, which is worth keeping in mind with any Dragon Ball villain that threatens the planet), and Goku still remained dead until the old Kai revealed he could trade their lives. Vegeta was also at risk, since he was too neutral for Heaven or Hell and instead would've had his soul completely cleansed and reborn, and had his good side not won out in the end, it's suggested that he would've been exempt from the wish that brought back everyone "except the bad guys". Amusingly enough, Toriyama initially wrote this arc with the intent of bringing back the light-hearted humor that was more prominent earlier in the series (which really shows when you look at stuff like the Great Saiyaman, Mr. Satan, and most the stuff involving Trunks and Goten), so the fact that some dramatic tension still managed to arise in spite of this really speaks volumes. -Say what you will about GT, but it ultimately showed that there would be consequences for relying too much on the Dragon Balls. Super doesn't have the same tension, but as with the Buu saga, it was a lot more humorous in general (and even so, the destruction of the entire universe was a constant risk). Of course, after a while, it does become obvious that the series won't kill off anyone for good no matter what (few shounen manga in general are that ballsy, especially when it comes to main characters). Nevertheless, context does matter, which is why I'm willing to say that death isn't quite the minor convenience that everyone sees it as being in Dragon Ball. From the points of views of the characters, at least, it really does seem like their friends and loved one are being killed off for good almost every time that it happens.

THANK YOU, you litterally did EXACTLY what i was griping about, back up your statements with a little more persepctive and clarity, it makes your point soo muchs stronger and i HIGHLY reccomend you continue that for futur videos like thse, Great content, keept it up!

Akame ga Kill comes to mind. Good time as any to bring up Keima's rant about killing off characters for shock value.

so are you saying that if and when all might dies it will be a good death?

Curious as to why Urobuchi was mentioned, since I didn't see any works of his that did this. Madoka doesn't because it has Time Travel as one of its main story devices, so it can't be that.

I was wondering why they did that to Kumar in the show, considering he was one of the cooler characters in it (or at least one of the few I could identify since I had no idea who was who back in the day, and liked the dynamic between him and the other doctor that wasn't Omar Epps). Still, don't think you needed to take away the Walking Dead examples to make your point, but at the same time, with the new content and expansion, I think you managed to convey the message well. (I did catch the first one back in the day, so was considering this a rewatch, but turns out I got a new video in the end.)

Just would like to add to the character useless/ making other characters move is also some sort of punishing. I mean they aren't that important for the story but it adds to the doings of another character (ex. Attack on Titan - Sasha in the the latest chapter) She wasn't important but she could have lived aswell.

since you were talking about killing off character What are your thoughts on game of thrones?

I want to watch this but I also want to watch Gurren Lagann and I probably won’t actually watch that for a while so can someone please help me here and just tell me where I need to skip ahead?

it's Guillermo del Torro's brother - Ballistic gel Torso!

If you haven't, you should do a full video about stories that suffer from having no permanence. Where things can never die or lose anything permanently. (like how in Dragon Ball they can just revive constantly with dragon balls, so there is no real depth to anyone being injured or killed.)

that hidden message at 4:42 was hilarious

When brian died that shit made me cry for a whole entire day bro

So can you provide examples of character deaths that actually enhance the story?

Oof. I once read that lamp shading can't always save a story. Guess it's the same here too.

I love you for putting Yoko Taro I’m at 5:31

Moral of the story: The Walking Dead is a dumpster fire.

Jonathan Kent's death in Man of Steel makes me want to blow my brains out every time I see it.

This video threw a new light on Plot Armor for me. I shouldn't complain about it as much while there are shows out there that kill of everyone for cheap shock value.

You got tired of people saying things like "wow i really enjoyed this episode of the walking dead.", so you starting making videos saying "your opinion is incorrect, mine is better." Wow great fucking story

So was kaminas death a good example? Because i didnt see it coming at all