All the viewers must certainly respect your honesty and feel sorry you were put into this situation by seller misrepresentations. As for your solution, perhaps waiting will open a new option. The cat build will take quite a bit of time and meanwhile manufactures are developing new products in both the electric & ICE outboard space. I am betting the future will bring you to an outboard much closes to your specific needs.
Over the years, I've owned and abused 4 different models of Tohatsu Outboards, ranging in size from 3.5hp to 40hp. All were utilized in industrial settings. I've been both happy and even proud of all of them. I've been in the marine industry for 45 years and have learned that any company (new or old) that has poorly developed internet coverage of their product line is telling me all I need to know! All the best with your project!! 💪😎🌴
Congrats on building your own respirators ! Very ingenious. I've used these systems my whole career in autobody and the oil and gas industry, so I can attest to the high cost of respirators, positive air / SCBA/ SABA systems. Just a heads up, those disposable cartridges (OSHA rated) actually don't last long, as short as one 8 hour shift from the time you remove them from a sealed package. This is a high operating cost item for us in industry. We burn through filter cartridges on a daily basis in shops and on site. You can extend their life by vacuum sealing them if you only use them for a few hours and then move on to other tasks for the day.. Organic cartridges for chemical, Hepa and dust cartridges can get really expensive really fast. I went for years not knowing cartridges had a short use life until we got a really good rep at our safety supplier who clued us in to that reality. We never replaced filters and wondered why we could taste dust and smell chemicals after a short use, so many people ditch them after a while because it seemed pointless. It's your health, but we had bad info. You may want to consider building a SABA unit that draws and supplies fresh air from outside the workspace entirely when you start working with the chemicals during your build. Actually, a hookah rig would accomplish this for you and since this will do double duty for hull cleaning later, you're getting double use out of it. The only inconvenience is that you will have hose management to deal with, but I'd rather drag a hose around than have a non working filter on a build that you will be working on for the next couple of years. I worked with SABA units in lethal chemical environments, so I know what I'd bet my life on.
Not well known but Tohatsu is the largest builder of outboards in the world. They build for other brands. Mine have been great. Including salt water swims.
Excellent video!! The awful sense of humor comes out, thinking about the outboard fiasco. At least you ended up being able to hone your small-area glassing skills. Watching you build the respirator, I was reminded of a few of Penn and Teller, where Penn speaks and Teller silently points to things and supplies the occasional tool. Thanks for sharing!
Very interesting and honest content. I'd suggest double checking how you're weighing positive and negatives for each option considered. For instance, what's harder to find - obscure parts for a one off or very low production electric outboard or gasoline? My guess is you will find the Yamaha reliability and supply chain second to none across the world. The technology is well understood and very well supported. Buying a newly introduced Tohatsu outboard or an electric outboard from any supplier, just adds unknowns and increases the likelihood of headaches- exactly what you don't want or need when traveling far and wide. One more Yamaha comment - personally I'd assume 4 stroke technology would be best all things being equal , but I've heard some very smart and experienced world sailers suggest that 2-stroke outboards are still much more common and thus easier to support worldwide.
Actually, one of the reasons we chose that electric outboard was that it was built on a Yamaha lower end where parts would be available. That wasn't the issue. My mistake was expecting it would have enough thrust at 48v.
Thanks! It's been raining for three days straight, and it is supposed to keep raining until Wednesday. That might but a 'damper' on our goal to work on the build site, it will be too muddy.
For your gas option, if you can afford the price tag of the Yamaha, go with them all day! Regardless of what option you get, if you go with gas make sure to look into fuel stabilizer. It will save you a lot of headaches in the future. Many types are out there, and all do the same job, so I do not recommend a particular brand. This will prevent your fuel from going bad while you have it stored in cans below or on deck for extended periods. Generally in the US I only worry about fuel if I plan to store it 4+ months. Buying fuel on remote island or 2nd/3rd world countries I would always add the stabilizer. Hope that helps. Looking forward to the build!
Thanks for the kind words. My father was the engineer, he taught me everything I know, especially not to be afraid to build something. When I was eight, instead of buying me a TV when I asked for one, he made me build one from a Heath kit.
Just series connect ur two box batteries and see what happens! I bet it will surprise u! U can still charge them at 48volt and then series connect them for tender use only get on it! Let’s see the video of this stealth sending it! Haha
Hello has any of your researching brought you to SV sophisticated lady? I believe that Rick has an electric set up for his tender that would suit your needs ,I think he would be of great help to you,thank you and good luck on your. Cat build
Yes, I've seen Rick's video about his ePropulsion outboard. In fact, we own an ePropulsion outboard, though not the Navy 6.0. The issue with the 6.0 is that it is not powerful enough to plane a dinghy with any weight in it. That outboard is only equivalent to about 9.9 hp. We need more like 25 to 30 hp.
I learned from an experience with a window contractor many years ago, never to pay in advance for something that is 'untested'. In the UK we are protected by the Consumer Act for products purchased via credit card and that has been my main method of paying for large item purchases. I think I would have loaded the outboard into my truck and driven to Scott's place of manufacture and demanded he take it back and issue a refund.
How do these people stay in business? In my mind, he was fraudulent at the start for not mentioning the large control box. He knew it was for a dinghy. Where on earth did he think that could go? I've just been on the current website and everything is listed on the two options of 50HP and 75HP options. Am I right in thinking that the large NMC battery will have to sit in the dinghy somewhere? I can't really see how an electric solution would work well if the power needed was of a certain size? Surely the energy density of either petrol or diesel beats hands down an electric solution above a certain size?@@SailingSVLynx
Welcome to boat building...... Everything to do with boats is a niche industry, nothing is made in the numbers, for example, like the car industry. As always it a case of buyer beware.... So many claims of electric motors, regeneration abilities etc. and most of it turns out to be hype with no actual real world performance. for a world cruising boat there is no substitute for diesel engines and for the tender a petrol outboard. It's just a fact of life.... As I said in an earlier post, when building your own boat, it will take twice as long as expected and cost twice as much.. if your lucky, if not, it will take 4 times as long and cost 4 times as much...... JMHO, from experience, cheers Rustie.
Well, we built in 40% more time for the build, so we're not far off of your 'twice as long' claim. As for cost, it won't go over budget in our case as we have purchased the vast majority of everything already, not just the materials to build the boat, but every system for the boat and we have a large reserve for things like this tender motor issue or other overruns in things like epoxy or sandpaper, etc. As for the electric outboard, it would perform fine if we purchased the 96v batteries that the manufacturer suggests, but we don't want to do that since they would not work with our main boat batteries. It was my mistake to go with 48v. As for our hybrid motor design for the main boat, it should also work fine since we only need it for lower speed uses like going in and out of marinas, or cruising at a slow speed for two to three hours. We have an 80hp diesel for when we need the extra power or range, so our system is the best of both worlds. Of course, good or bad, we'll post real world numbers for everyone once the boat is in the water and we test the hybrid propulsion.
No fun not getting what you asked for. To make the best of a bad situation you could add a higher drive ratio pulley (eg. 3:1 ratio) between motor and leg and make do with 58.4V(16S LiFePO4)@185A (10kW input) the motor sounds capable of.
Thanks for the suggestion, but I am familiar with it. We decided against that outboard early on because it is only 17.43 hp, which isn't enough for our needs (with four people and dive gear, it would never reach a plane.) That's why we went with an 18kw electric outboard instead of a 13kw, only to find it still wasn't powerful enough. We would need Aquawatt's 22kw outboard (about 30hp), but that one runs at 80v, or better, their 42kw outboard (about 57hp), but that one uses 144v. You will immediately notice a correspondence between the voltage and the hp. If we went with 96v on our current 18kw outboard, we would about double our hp to about 24.5 hp, which might be enough, but we already have our 48v batteries and don't want to spend another $10,000 purchasing 96v batteries just for the tender.
Oh no, what a bad experience with the outboard. Would it be possible to connect two of your 48v batteries in series to make 96v? Are they too big/heavy to carry two on the dinghy?
Our batteries are 24v, we were using two to get to 48v, we would have to go up to 4 of these to get to 96v. We don't have the room for that and they would be too heavy. Purchasing new batteries would work but cost too much, and we don't want to go to 96v as that can be dangerous to humans and we are an ocean going tender out in pounding and wet conditions at times.
You will save so much time and be less likely to make an error if you measure out your epoxy and hardener by weight. As the project goes on, the pumps sometimes lose their accuracy. I learned this the hard way. Just make sure you get the actual weight ratio, it's different than the ratio by volume. For my epoxy, I dump a bunch of resin in my cup, weigh it, multiply by 1,45, then with the cup on the scale, add my hardener until I hit the number. I'll never go back to using the pumps again. Sorry, I meant to post this on the strip plank video
In Australia we have consumer laws where you get either a replacement or money back if the goods are faulty or not as advertised or not fit for function - eg you would have got a full refund
Yes, it must be "fit for purpose" and if you can prove - as you have in this video - it was not, you are entitled to a refund (if you undid your mods and minus the cost of a new cowl). I really feel for you Phil, that's a terrible design and customer service story, and I don't think you are to blame for that. Disgraceful work by Stealth.
I have to say that faults on both sides re the motor if Scott told you and you missed it re the 96 volt setup you were also scrupulously fair re apportioning blame. You could recoup your money slightly by using the Yamaha bottom end and just buy the top end though it might not save you much or might not be suitable but someone would buy it if only for parts. You also cold use the electric motor in a static application to raise or lower the tender or as an electric winch. I am of course not an electrical engineer but I think that you could find a technological solution to change the voltage but at what cost/weight ? Although no one wants such an outcome I think it unlikely that this company will survive or thrive unless this is a regrettable one off incident it may well be that Scott is a great electrical engineer but that is not the only thing required to run a business as a start up customer service should be a top priority. He needs his customers to be singing the products praises and even if there is a problem the companies fault. to fix it even if it is not entirely that of the company. However the first warning was the extraneous box of wires never mentioned on the website and proved unnecessary this is bad in so many ways and not a good business model for the company. As Elon Musk famously says the best part is no part and he knows a bit about engineering
Yes, plenty of blame, but I should have done better research and asked Stealth more questions, so I take full responsibility. Live and learn. Thanks for the suggestions, we are looking into all of that and will figure out what to do with the Stealth. If a fisherman (many use electric outboards) is looking for an electric outboard, we could sell this to them. They would still have to buy batteries, so they could go with 96v and get the full 24 horsepower out of this outboard. So, perhaps someone out there would like a good deal, and we already fixed the cables, lines, and separate control box issue, so they get the fruits of our labor.
We considered a Hookah system early on, but decided against it because we have a dive compressor on board and full scuba gear, so that would be additional weight when we can just use scuba gear to clean the hulls (if needed).
Major bummer about the outboard. As you know, there are no free lunches. I'm baffled though how you missed that you wouldn't get a functional ~20hp from 48V@100A (though i know you didn't get a full 100A in trials, which is another issue). In electrics, Power = Current x Voltage. 100A x 48V = 4.8kW = 6.4hp. And that doesn't account for efficiency losses between the terminals and the prop thrust. I've only recently discovered your channel, and am enjoying it immensely. I'm excited to get caught up.
Bummer ab0ut the motor. If you go gas EFI is a big plus and Yamaha is the top of the heap for sure. I have a propane Tohatsu 5 hp , runs good but the HP gas hose clogs and it,s loud. The 25 Yamaha is almost silent by comparison.
Have you considered the X Series from Epropulsion. New since this video, also 96v but an X12 could fit your needs. Happy to discuss a collaboration if you’re interested.
Yes, but we're not willing to use 96v in a often wet and pounding dinghy. Too much chance of electrocution. Any voltage over 48vdc can cause serious harm to humans.
If you drive to a marina, then set sail across an ocean in your GRP sailboat, the most dangerous thing you did is drive the car. Yet people drive every day. Life comes with risks. If you take proper precautions you can reduce your risk to reasonable levels. We eliminated propane, use LifePO4 batteries, charge small NMC batteries in an exterior fireproof box, and will have fire extinguishers all over the boat. And we have a life raft with ePirb.
There are several reasons that modified outboard isn't performing. Prop size, pitch, amps and voltage. If an electric motor can handle 185 amps then give it 185 amps at max. only going to 100 amps is a fast idle at half the volts. How fast does it go using 185 amps? Cutting voltage in half is almost like cutting amps in half, since it wants 96 volts you should build one with 100ah cells. it will perform way better. I watched a guy convert a jet ski into electric. He also seen what you did using 48 volts. once he got over 80 volts it made a big difference and when he went over 100 volts it performed like a gas jet ski. They do have 96 volt BMS out there.
As for going with higher voltages, we don't want to deal with higher than 48 volts as it becomes dangerous to humans, and we are out on the rough ocean, with salt spray, our feet sitting in water at times, etc. A short of high voltage could be hazardous. We don't want to electrocute our crew! OSHA considers all voltages of 50 volts or above to be hazardous.
@@SailingSVLynx have you set your BMS to 200 amps discharge? doing 200 amps at 48 volts will not hurt the motor since it want 186 amps at 96 volts. That might get you a lot more speed then a 4 blade with a higher pitch like 19 would increase top end more. Also have you looked into a 48 to 96 volt DC Converter? Just bouncing things off you to maybe help save you that outboard.
