Kitchen exhaust and make up air all under one hood at NS Builders Lake Drive Custom 

The same contractor has a smoke test video and the result is exactly what you predicted. I'm not sure if this is the best design. Nonetheless, work quality is top notch.

@@thaivu3324 Interesting. Thanks for letting me know. I guess air makeup is better than none and you'd at least contain the air to keep it from changing the inside temp/humidity much.

@@thaivu3324 Where is that smoke test video?

I wish these types of systems were made part of the building code. I'm working with a builder and based on my experience so far, I guarantee if I were to ask for something like this, they'll try to charge me $5k to add it in. Looks like I'll just be opening the kitchen window and letting all the hot/cold air into the house.

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-u2uVaTMXd_8.html

I also want an update on this style being that others state the make up air should be lower and away and disburse along a longer area

In commercial kitchen that is the norm, however in new build homes they don’t consider this unless it’s a custom home and the owner had the intention and knowledge to overlook this feature. However the challenge for us in North is getting tempered air in instead of cold air middle of January.

Does captive air systems offer residential hoods to at have the integrated makeup air system like what they build here? That would be amazing and make it so much easier for your run of the mill contractors to install. Would just need the hvac guy to do the ducting runs and install the online blower then :)

They are simply doing a commercial compensating hood as allowed by code. “ Compensating hoods are those having integral (built-in) makeup air supply. The makeup air supply for such hoods is generally supplied from: short-circuit flow from inside the hood, air curtain flow from the bottom of the front face, and front face discharge from the outside front wall of the hood. The compensating makeup airflow can also be supplied from the rear or side of the hood, or the rear, front or sides of the cooking equipment. The makeup airflow can be one or a combination of methods”

This is correct. It has been proven over and over again that this system does not work. It is just the easiest way to meet code. I doubt this system will get much serious use so its fine but if you want to see how a quality commercial system works check out something like the Halton Capture Jet system. They even have the Schlieren imaging to prove it.

Not sure how efficiently it’ll work, at least it’s better then no makeup air. With new homes build, HRV units should have a feature that is dedicated to only bringing in cold air to be warmed up by the furnace and is routed to a duct that could be placed above the cook or under the stove which will serve as a supply to the exhaust above.

@@mzshan79 I have done this many times it requires a few extra relays and dampers but it can be done and is amazing!

@@devinpaddock2569 What ERV are you using for a 1200 CFM hood?

Iclean grease ducts commercially. yeah they are pretty much only going to be cleaned as far as you can reach and eventually it will smell. because it cannot be cleaned. lol. In order to clean something like this properly you really need welded type 1 duct.

I think you are correct, however there is something to be said or 'valued CFM' added when the point of return is 'point blank' near the point of supply. Think of it this way. IF the loop was closed, then the CFM from the hood (going out of the house would equal that of the CFM coming in (image the dumb contractor closed the loop by accident). However as we know, it is not a 'closed' loop and there is a 'distance' between the two. This distance can be modeled (or though of) as a 'gap' in the closed loop. Or closed loop with a section removed (say 6"); how many CFM's are lost in that gap through inefficiencies? That would be the 'lost' CFM's needed to be forced into the system to obtain equilibrium. Without instrumentation, I'm beginning to think if A) the point of venting and outside air volume are close enough and B) the lost efficiency is less than 400 CFM one would be covered/ in compliance. NOTE: The 400 CFM value is from the IBC code where if less than 400 CFM, a system is not required in the first place. Cleary the code is not eluding that the pressure is neutral, but rather explicitly indicating if it is 400 or less, we (the authors of the building code/IBC) don't consider it material. That tells me that if the amount 'lost' from a 'non-closed' loop is 400 CFM or less, all is good. I'm starting to think the other systems (with the fans and Heafy price tags) are using the 'zero' pressure result somewhat of marketing hype since the code clearly indicates a 400CFM spot at the start line.

Stone Home Services Inc I am in Florida. Had the genius idea of remodeling the kitchen and was trying to get a commercial strength hood fan, that is, until I found out what a mess I would create sucking all dirt from the outside, walls and ceiling with negative pressure. It is a old house 1990 so the insulation is nasty. I love this idea but it doesn’t look to be perfect yet.

@@marcelosantana9311 what did you end up doing?

@@aikidoboynj Soooooo, if I tell you that my renovation has been stuck for the past year would you believe? Don’t know what happen but everything stalled in place. I am actually starting to look to get someone to install the ductwork for me in the next month or so. I love the idea of this channel but not sure if I can get a custom hood like that easily.

@@marcelosantana9311 haha yes I believe you because I am having a remodel as we speak and I'm just learning about this mua bs as well. It has been very difficult for me to find a hood insert model that complies and in which I can have the motor installed in the attic as opposed to an all in one unit (too cut down on noise). The one I found on amazon is up to 800 cfm on max setting but i need to get this done fast and I may just get it anyways and just use the lower speed settings. I found some braun units but they look like trash and the reviews on them seem to back up that opinion. The inspectors/code people around me allowed the previous owners to sell the this house to me with a nylon-like tubing, not even metal venting behind the old hood so I'm not so worried about getting pinged by these code fuckwads.

@@aikidoboynj make sure that you add a silencer. It reduce considerable the noise. Hoping to get the ductwork in the next couple months. I haven’t decided between a in-line or roof mounted blower yet. My biggest issue is noise since I am not planning to use gas. I like this design but hard to get anyone that works with make up air.

No blower on makeup. Passive intake. We didn’t “measure” the reduction, if any

Just get a condensing dryer...

Other question from that, have you done any testing with a smoke pen or something? If the intake isnt keeping up with the vent, is the make up air actually flowing down to the range and back up or just staying up high and not really helping to scoop any of the steam/smoke/etc?

Would the ERV provide that solution?

The damper is motorized so it opens on a motor that is controlled by the hood.

@NS Builders, I think they meant would you not have a similar backdraft scenario when using a bath fan exhaust, as it too, is trying to pull make up air? The mechanics of the kitchen set up are easily understood.

cmm170526 in that case, we are using an ERV to handle the bathroom exhaust and keeping the home balanced.

Bear with me, are you using the ERV as the sole device for humility mitigation in the baths? What about the dryer? I am in the process of designing my own home and trying to get a handle on proper ventilation.

You need to check out the Instagram feeds

Contact the manufacturer of the Zip system. If it was used on a way that wasn’t designed you may or may not have a problem. Their product is designed to adhere to the Zip boards so it may sticks nicely now but overtime it may start to peeling. If is a easy access you can get him to come back or someone else to do the right way. I hate when the want to use what they have at hand instead of buying the correct material. Good luck and wouldn’t worry a lot but keep an eye.

@@marcelosantana9311 Thank you so much. I just replaced it

Wondering the same and if so, how is the filter changed?

Had a 900 CFM hood from Zephyr even at its middle speed I couldn't smell burnt food standing right next to the stove. So it was very very efficient. Though everyone 3-4 houses down could smell it outdoors. . Thus I doubt if 1200 CFM is ever needed for a home kitchen. It's simply over kill by a long shot. Plus the capturing grease seems missing on this.

Point being?

Tent would certainly be cheaper but probably not easy or comfortable. These guys are achieving an extremely comfortable house with low energy bills.

@@NSBuilders I will build smaller and simpler from the get-go. Just enough.

…. Physics is a bitch!… it is really really really really hard to move 1200 CFM through a 10 inch pipe with a fan let alone without one. To move that much air through a 10 inch pipe you have to overcome at least .7 inches water column plus the friction loss of the pipe elbows and the grill and exhaust hood and not many fans will create that…

Totally my thoughts

I've had an inline blower hidden in the soffit of my laundry for 15 years. Mine is a squirrel cage blower. Have never had any problems with it. There is no sensitive electronics in them, just a motor. So the 'when' you speak of is such a remote possibility, that I am comfortable cutting open my soffit in that eventuality.

@@rodstephens6612 Is it less noisy when it's inline? Would you say the benefits outweigh the negatives? My motor in the hood is covered with oil. Even if I clean the filters all the time some oil still gets through. It would be interesting to see how much oil gets on the inline motor.

@@rockys7726 Much quieter. Mine is 1400cfm and the only sound is the turbulence of he air thru the filter, no motor or fan sound at all. The quality of the filter mechanism is key. When I clean mine, I check the damper at the top of the hood. I don't see any oil deposits there, so I don't expect any further into the ducts. My hood has both a commercial style baffles as well as a secondary screen filter. They seem to combine to give me very good oil capture.

You know, that might be true. I've seen this idea a couple of times today in vids and never is the author commenting on whether it works in reality or not. Smoke test at the very least ought to show what's happening.

Thors Hammer: while it may seem like 1:1 the exchange rate will not be 100 because they have not chose to mechanically pressurize the inlet/return. Essentially, this will work as a vacuum where High rates of our flow, by the way 1200cfm is commercial grade, will take up and mix the inflowing air, heat, stem, orders, etc. and carry them out. Imagine the air flow as water current. Anything that makes contact with the current will be carried along the paths. My question is: have they kept the inlet and exhaust far enough apart and have they planned for natural wind patterns. Overall, though, this is a thoughtful design that I would love to add to my kitchens and baths.

@@charlesjohnson7222 I never thought of the air current influencing the exhaust in a way a solid surface would influence flow (Coanda Effect). Someone with a Flir thermal imager might be able to detect effluent breaching the hood boundary. Schlieren Images would also be interesting to see.1200 cfm is a lot of flow! (I envision the Elf Christmas movie where Will Ferrell sticks his face on the mail tube...or, a homeowner prior to going to an 80's Big Hair party getting her hair sucked up into the hood. Haha! Will the make-up air disrupt gas burners? May be best for induction cook tops. I am still suspect but intrigued by the set up. We need good HVAC geeks to do performance testing on these set-ups.

I'm pretty sure that fluid dynamics disagrees with you. It will pull the gases/particles from the range. Now that being said, there must be cold air leaking around the hood which I'm curious about. Also this doesn't balance the house pressure; pressure inside almost certainly drops causing air leakage to play some roll even though much smaller.

@@Niklaos : Look up any reputable MUA system design (by fantech or airscape) and you will not see this sub-standard and ineffective technique being used.

@@ginger-bread_man Oh I'm not arguing that it's an ideal solution. An airflow coming from under the stove would definitely be superior. All I'm saying is that it definitely doesn't do nothing and that it's probably efficient enough. The video should show a smoke test actually, that would have been interesting.

Nicolas GUILLAUME : The smoke test will reveal a short-circuit.