The real downside of TUNICs approach is that once you've figured out the language for yourself, you want every game to have a secret language and then you're sad
For real, I love looking at my notes from playing the game. I have similar from Fez though, and I'd recommend playing that if you haven't. By the time I fully finished the game, that language I could straight up read without referencing my notes. xD
That might just make fighting games click for me. I’ve long since given up on them, but the knowledge based games mentioned in this video are my favorites. Where do you recommend I start?
Yes it's similar but in Outer Wilds it's different. You don't get better as in fighting games, you simply learn the way, you don't train, don't grind, just learn.
@@Kmaaq personally I just play Tekken which is very hard to get into, it’s way more focussed on movement and defence than most fighting games. In terms of an “easy” fighting game to start with I’ve heard good things about dragonball if you’re into the anime vibe. Mortal kombat also is comparatively simple. Tekken is great to play, but you’ll probably be playing for a couple weeks before you’re executing a game plan vaguely competently, and it relies on a lot of knowledge of the cast that you build up over legit months/years. I love it because there’s so many different options in moveset compared to most fighting games but it is hard to get into.
@@Kmaaq Check out Cosmonaut Variety Hour's video on how to start with fighting games. I'd personally recommend Tekken. I feel there are a ton of tools to learn the game on RU-vid. You could also wait till Street Fighter 6 launches in June. There will be plenty more people to play with
There's a fairly common term used when discussing fighting games called Knowledge Checks, where one player uses a technique that is powerful, but easily beaten if you know how to respond on the other player. If the other player passes the knowledge check & defeats the technique, the first player stops using it. If they don't the first player can continue to spam the atttack until the other guy figures it out or dies trying. Very similar concept, and I guess you could describe knowing how to pass the Check as a Knowledge Based Unlock.
Just like a stat check in other games. You have statistics that in a direct confrontation beat someone so they need to strategize. More unfair than knowledge check because you put a lot less effort into defending yourself than your opponent into attacking you.
After watching this I bought Outer Wilds and now, after finishing it I just came back to say: thank you for showing it without spoiling it. It's been years since I last felt the pure joy of discovery in a video game. Masterpiece of game design. I wish there more like it.
Some bro. I felt the same. I can't sleep just thinking if I can find something that is similar to this game. But I hated the echo of the eye. Too much hassle going to that place. Felt like a chore. But through outer wilds, I start feeling the happiness of playing games again, and I have been wanting or chasing this feeling for so long.
It's so hard to convince someone to play outer wilds, because you cant explain to them why they should buy it, but when anyone plays it they say correctly it's the best gaming experience they've had in a long time
@@MrGoo189 spoilers for outer wilds dlc : Did you know you could highlight the position of The Stranger from you entry log (or any location for that matter). The game does explain it to you at some point after starting the dlc, but I can see hiw someone could miss that Since you're saying it was a hassle going there, I'm guessing you had to go and find its location every loop by going to the mapping satellite, in which case, I'm sorry for you haha that must have been quite annoying. I personally loved Echoes of the Eye, the atmosphere, the music and the new story were all amazing, although a bit scary at times, I'm not too good with horror games.
To me, the biggest benefit of Knowledge Based Games is when you apply a similar approach to life, embracing exploration, perseverance, curiosity and a cultivation of skill, connecting the dots yourself, and so on. Then practising in your everyday life, feeds back into your gaming experience. That's just one of the many things I love about gaming.
since I learned that with consistency I can have a very unproductive week, but if I manage to do at least 5% of what should be done, in 3 months this "unproductive" days would compound to something significant that you will be able to notice the evolution right away that being said, if you give your 100% every day, you will fly!
I'm so upset that I had watched someone play it before going into it! Thankfully I didn't get *too* much spoiled for me and I still had a great time playing it.
Couldn't get the hang of trying to fly and land the shuttle at all and just gave up. My brain just couldn't compute a fix for how awkward and unintuitive it felt to me
@@Dave_ja_vu I just wanted to say I've had the same experience as you and thought I would never finish the game because of it (I was also overwhelmed at first and not sure if I was making any progress). Once I pushed past the first couple of hours though, it became one of my favorite games of all time and I really love the controls now that I got the hang of it. I promise you getting used to it is worth it because it's easily the most unique game I've ever played!
Outer Wilds is the first game that made me feel actual dread. Not terror, like most horror games have with their jumps cares. Actual dread... And pure relief when the dreadful moments are over (for that moment). Its great.
After I finished outer wilds, I remember just sitting there, struggling to internalize it all. It genuinely took days or weeks before I stopped thinking about it.
@@redsoxfox Fear of the sublime (and fish). Have you ever stood on top of a roof, or near a cliff, or tried to understand the distance between yourself and the moon? Ever gone Swimming in the ocean past the continental shelf and thought about DOWN? Tried to reach for a cloud? Fear of the Vast. You are small, the universe is big. Things are more than you can understand. That sun/star is mighty awesome, and you are puny. Imagine falling into Jupiter. Or a black hole. Outer Wilds has you flying first person as a kerbal in a kerbal space ship around a solar system. There is no out of bounds.
Sekiro was the hardest from software game on 1st try for me. Now I can play through the entire game unscathed. Meanwhile, dark souls was much easier on first try, but I still get my ass handed in it sometimes sekiro is simpler and more focused, but demands mastery of the smaller set of skills and is very satisfying
Isshin Ashina was correct, Hesitation is defeat, after losing, and losing, and memorizing the enemy's patterns it's not until you stop being afraid of them, but get loose and exploit all your chances, that you win effortlessly, in short, when you stop hesitating and start winning
Yes i really felt that when i replayed the game a while ago. I spent a whole day on isshin alone on my first playthrough, when i played the game the second time i was not afraid and did not ‚hesitate‘ when fighting him, he almost felt easy and i beat him on the second try. Such an amazing game, has easily become my favorite fromsoft game
That's so interesting, Sekrio is the only FS game that I had no desire to replay once I finished it. It's the only one that I didn't get all of the endings for, didn't platinum it, didn't even fight all of the bosses on the the other routes. Once I was done with it, I was done. Playing that, and then Elden Ring really taught me what it is that I love about those games (discovery/ exploration), and what I don't actually like as much as I thought that I did (combat/ challenge).
@@kode-man23 thats understandable. They’re both amazing games but Sekiro definitely has a more rigorous and less cheeseable combat system. I loved exploring Elden Ring and went out of my way to find everything I could, sekiro was beautiful but it just didn’t feel as replayable. The boss gauntlets made me fall back in love with it but for the actual game I’d have to agree
Tunic was one of the most wonderful gaming experiences I have ever had. I had been following the game's development for years, and I was looking forward to it, but all I was expecting was a Zelda-like but with a cute fox. Now, ironically, when I finally played Tunic I had just beaten Outer Wilds a few months prior. I was craving another game like Outer Wilds so bad, but no other game could scratch that itch. And then when I finally experienced the game that Tunic truly was, holy crap, I was absolutely blown away. So much so that I convinced many of my friends to play it as well. And I watched them play, and seeing them experience the same "knowledge acquiring" moments that I had, it was almost as fun as playing the game blind again for the first time. Long story short, play Tunic.
Outerwilds is my favorite game and I’ve been looking for one like that. I downloaded tunic a while ago but haven’t played it yet. You’ve just convinced me 😁
I replayed with the tunic randomizer mod and it gave me a fresh sense of exploration. Even knowing most of the secrets I was forced to get creative because I was finding items out of order and couldn't take the more traditional route.@@stooglesgoogles7246
I recommend it to everyone who will listen. I haven't even done a second playthrough, but the first one was so fun. I think I do want to come back to it because I will have forgotten a lot of the details.
Dude.. the original marketing for Outer Wilds didn’t mention the “crucial mechanic” at all and discovering it for myself is one my favorite gaming moments ever. It annoys me that it’s not even a secret at this point. Thank you for trying to give others the same experience.
@@isodoubIet I’m not talking about the time loop… which yeah, definitely should be mentioned. I was only referring to the supernova. I bought this game knowing only that it was a space exploration mystery game in a solar system stuck in a time loop. The sun going boom on me was a surprise.
I remember a solid 1 month period, when my outer wilds hyperixation was on its peak Lmao, My every walk to school was filled with Timber heart. I love outer wilds
Hitman is an underated knowledge based game. Althou there are some equipment progression, the main way you get better is by getting to know the map and the NPCs. You play the maps over and over again, and start getting where are interesting itens that you might need, how to get pass certain guards, how to get the disguises you want, nice line of sights, interesting routes you didn't know about, etc. There's also some extent of general knowledge, how people respond to certain itens, how itens interact, etc. In the end you know the map and mechanics so well you can drop in with nothing and silent assassin suit only the hell out of the targets. The new roguelike mode is pretty good too to make you use your knowledge in new ways, kill people in parts of the map you usually don't, with interesting methods, etc
Hitman is a perfect example that I think could have been better in this video than Sekiro. It's a good showing of how replaying over and over again and exploring unlocks all sorts of 'hidden' gems. Your skill in that game is heavily tied to your knowledge of it.
Hitman is such a good example. Go from clumsily inching your way around a map to gracefully gliding around it. Gaining mastery over a map is one of my favorite things in gaming and Hitman nails it.
I agree! Hitman is a perfect example of kbu. Though one can just play it in a scripted manner. There are like numerous possibilities in that game which makes it much more interesting. Combing your meticulous planning and presence of mind, you could make the best out of that games.
I've thought on this before while watching my GF struggle to beat the first puzzle in the first new Tomb Raider. So much of gaming nowadays almost RELIES on the fact that you have done similar things before. If you don't have an understanding of what is and is not possible/typical for games, you can easily get absolutely confused and lost.
@@DanAnd190 May i recommend a series by a youtuber called "Razbuten", he has a series "what video games are like for people who dont play videogames". Basically he gets his wife to play a bunch of different games and this proves your point entirely. She does things that in reality make sense, like trying to jump over a low fence but the game has an invisible wall there, but anyone whos played games before wouldnt even think to try it. This isnt his first video but just so you dont have to search it yourself: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-WamFLD7Y2-4.html
@@DanAnd190 I'm pretty sure it's called game literacy and yes I think it's a fundamental part of video games and why the avarage age of gamers is going up. Newer games require more "knoweldge" to play than older games so a completelly game illiterate person would struggle way more to play a game like lets say Hollow Knight than Mario. Taking Outer Wilds as an example, the movement alone in the game would make a game illiterate person just run in circles in the starting area and probably not even realize that you have to interact with some things.
I think a perfect example is this is actually super mario odyssey. Throughout your first playthrough the game slowly introduces more and more movement options. Once you've learned all of them, you can access nearly any location in the entire game. You aren't gaining skills, you're just learning how to utilize the ones you've had from the beginning
@Pompomatic I suppose. I haven't played 64 so I can't speak to that, but if I remember correctly, odyssey has specific pop-ups up until the moon that explain movement tech. It also has significantly more movement options than previous games
Outer Wilds and TUNIC are absolute favorites of mine. I love how you did them both justice, while taking a ton of care to not spoil what made them, to me, utterly magical experiences. Instant sub from me.
Tunic does what I wish classic Zelda games always did. There mystery and level of satisfaction at new discoveries, etc. I wish I hadn't looked up what the magic cross was and figured it out on my own, even if it had taken me 8 months lol
I think talking about Outer Wilds and similar games are just such difficult things to do. Any deeper dives would inherently involve spoilers, and it's one of the reasons why it's difficult to build hype around them. Even for friends I find it sometimes hard to convince them other than "trust me it's good", but the more you try to describe it the more you are risking revealing too much.
I just have to hear the smallest fragments of the Outer Wilds soundtrack to feel a sense of awe and peace with myself in the universe. It makes me feel small, but hopeful.
Outer Wilds is not my normal type of game but it was BY far the game that touched me the most, it was absolutely incredible and I have never felt more emotion from a game. By far the best game I have ever played!
Outer wilds is my favorite game, so I’m glad it’s included on this list. It’s one of the most perfect example of KBUs because you really don’t get a single item, you just get the knowledge on how to use your tools better. Such as the Little Scout, Signalscope, Ship, and Jetpack. Also thank you for not saying the most important thing about the game. It’s hard to get people hooked on a game without saying it, but I think you did a pretty great job. (Now go go share this video with my friends so I can finally get them to play it.) Also definitely subbing.
@@warriorfire8103 It's also my favorite my favorite game ever by a large margin. I will say that for the first 4 hours I was thinking "what is even going on, what am I supposed to do?" but if you can push through that feeling, it evolves into something truly magical.
@@Bulbbley I have wanted to love that game so much but I just couldnt. I spent like an hour on the tutorial place and finally got able to fly into space. I wanted to explore the backside of the planet only to crash and die. Then the game starter over from the beginning again. I was not aware it was a roguelike, I thought it was like a chill exploration puzzle game. Never touched it since because I got so mad the game wasted my time with that bs, it was frankly insulting.
I think rain world is a great example, you don’t get any unlocks that give new abilities, but learn how to better control your character and understand the behavior of the creatures.
Probably one of the reasons it might be my favorite game. The video is interesting because calling this kind of design 'knowledge based unlocks' is an accurate description in a game'y sense, but really this is just another way to describe 'teaching'. Rain World might be the purest form of this old school game design because the entire game, even down to movement itself, is like one constant learning experience.
My favorite period in Minecraft history was back when it was less well understood and therefore more of a KBG. The mechanics were simple enough that it genuinely felt like you could experiment and discover crafting recipes, what tools were best, etc. I understand why they had to replace those systems with the crafting book, and why people made a wiki, but I will always be looking for games that mimic minecraft "before it was cool"
This so much! I remember a buddy explaining to me how to craft an axe and I was absolutely ecstatic when I figured out how to make a pickaxe on my own! :) Good times.
You just absolutely warped me to playing minecraft on my cousin's laptop and the complete wonder I felt when I discovered how to craft armor pieces. An unmatched feeling
I’m currently playing Hollow Knight for the first time, and it definitely uses the “Get new skill to solve puzzle” format, but in my opinion the game’s intellectual stimulation comes from exploration and learning the timing and techniques appropriate for different enemies. In one case I fought a mini boss, died several times, eventually figured it out, and then entered a room that had several of those enemies in it, and I was able to handle it. To me, that’s a similar experience to the “learning how to play Sekiro” that you described, but admittedly I don’t play a lot of games.
Just played Outer Wilds and loved the heck out of it. Going to try Tunic now. I’ve seen a lot of RU-vidrs try and make informative/analytical videos that only come out as trite or shallow, but SuperDude is not one of them. This is one of the most influential videos for my tastes and he’s unlocked a new understanding of myself and what I want in my games. The level of self awareness and reflection in this video is of the highest quality, and we all need more of this. SuperDude, you have so much influence over the gaming community now (at least to me), and you could single-handedly set the direction new games go. Maybe make a video not just about analysis, but about where you think gaming in general should go.
Return of the Obra Dinn is a perfect example of an amazing NBG experience with absolutely no replay value. Which sucks because I really want more like it
Except you have to play it a second time before you even you know the goal, then a 3rd time to 100% achievements... This is a great great game I keep hoping I forget so I can replay
I really love the way you describe things, not actually spoiling anything while making things sound interesting. As someone who is always like 5 years behind on games I really appreciate this.
As someone who is also always like 5 years behind on all games and dislikes spoilers I agree. This made me go from having very little interest in Sekiro to being really interested without feeling especially ruined by any knowledge I gained about it.
It truly is perfect, and he did it on probably the most important genre to be able to experience first hand. Really a great video, was surprised it was his first one, it was so well done!
This is one thing I have always wanted for video games, games that are designed to teach you skills like say a secondary language. Imagine an RPG or a puzzle game but teaches you French, Latin, Spanish or English, it still plays in a similar way but is constantly dropping new phrases and encounters designed to teach. In order to complete the game you have to use all your knowledge on phrases and grammer in order to make it to the final encounter.
Me too! Tbh I love playing wacky dating sims set in historical times and although they are partly fantasy I learned a lot about feudal japan lol. Games should be utilized a lot more in teaching! Imagine learning skills like horseback riding or real sword figthing in future VR games
I used to play a math game. When I was 8 years old or around that age my father gave me a game to play and in it you had to beat orcs by doing math. Honestly nice idea and looking back at it it could be really helpful, but as a child I found it very scary... Not only was I under time pressure but also in a new environment. Beeing new to math and then calculating under time pressure or you wouldnt defeat orcs hunts my dreams still to this day
you deserve a follow, I havent even finished the whole video, but you leaving out the outer wilds mechanic, was so important, literally cried the first time it happened, and gave a sense of powerlessness as I let it happen, and made me want to unravel every secret that this universe provides, truly a game of its own kind.
I’ve never been so obsessed with a game as I was with Tunic. It was a truly magical experience discovering all of its secrets, figuring out the puzzles, and unlocking each page of the manual. What a fantastic game!
Another thing I like about Sekiro is that the moment you beat it once, the game gives you an option to further test yourself: To remove Kuro's charm. Now you have to deflect properly because mere blocks will make you take damage. It honestly makes the first playthrough feel like a test to prove you can handle this change. Also knowing that you can deflect thrusts makes tackling Tutorial Geni more fun as well. So fun in fact that I rarely use mikiri anymore.
I picked up Tunic shortly after my dog passed away. It looked like something simple, fun , and pleasant on the cover, something to just take my mind off of it. What I found was a whirlpool that drew me down into the deepest depths of that world as I learned it’s secrets.
I feel like Noita fits perfectly with the definition of KBUs, especially with its wandcrafting mechanic. Knowing the logic flow of components to craft a weapon can be the difference between becoming a god in your run or immediately blowing yourself and dying due to improper assembly.
It also has replayability because of the dynamic ecosystem. You know what other creatures you're likely going to encounter in different regions and how to evade/fight them but their behaviour is not set. One time that persistent lizard won't stop chasing you, the next time it's distracted by the other lizard, the next it basically saves you by being vulture food and yet another time there are no lizards there at all.
Outer Wilds had such a big learning curve for me because I had never played a game that challenged me to think like that. It’s a pretty short game if you can move through it at a regular pace but it probably took me 50 hours on my initial playthrough. While it was a bit grueling for a lot of it, I’m so glad that I played it and it’s going to stick with me for a very very long time. Now when I play any games I read into the clues a lot more, and I think my struggles with Outer Wilds are helping me in my current playthrough of Metroid Prime, as they weirdly have a lot in common.
Outer Wilds is one of the greatest games I’ve ever played. It honestly changed my life and I hope everyone here gives it a try. Quite literally is a top 10 game of all time in my opinion. There is a learning curve, but it is so worth it. Don’t watch spoilers, don’t look up how to do things.. just allow the game to direct you and enjoy the journey. It will scare the shit out of you, but it will also gives you immense joy. Turn the lights off, the audio UP… and enjoy one of the most intense and incredible experiences in gaming. Cheers.
Good stuff! I would put OuterWilds and Tunic into a different category than Sekiro though. If you know particular information in OuterWilds and Tunic, you immediately have a huge advantage. Knowing is enough in those games. They are very clearly Puzzle games. Sekiro is different, much like other Soulsgames or something like Monster Hunter. Knowledge alone is not enough. You need to gain muscle memory through repitition and training. Knowing what to do does not immediately lead to success, you have to train to apply your knowledge. I like the term "Knowledge Base Unlock", but I would not apply it to stuff like learning the timing on a parry. There is just so much more to it.
Haha yea I know. I knew I was stretching, but it's more than the concept of the first playthrough making the second playthrough a distinct experience that I was trying to get across, which is exactly what TUNIC does (so it's a bridging topic). Also, if I'm being honest, I love Sekiro and I just wanted to talk about Sekiro.
@@superdude10000 You should add some additional games in this genre to the video description or a pinned comment. I have ALWAYS been looking for more games in this style, but it's so difficult sometimes. Love the video, keep up the great work!
I'd argue that muscle memory and repetition is important in Outer Wilds as well, though obviously to a lesser degree. It may just be that I suck at flying, but there's more than a few bits of Outer Wilds (eg lakebed cave, southern observatory) that I only completed after a dozen tries despite knowing what to do.
I got recommended this from the Daryl Talks Games vid on Outer Wilds, and I'm so glad I did! Great video I'd love to add Return of the Obra Dinn to this list. Most detective games like L.A. Noire systemise knowledge to the point that you don't have to think for yourself at all, but Obra Dinn stores nothing until you work it out correctly yourself. Instead of feeling like a detective tv series, with cases you could never work out because the camera doesn't show you anything until it's relevant to the story, games can have everything laid out in front of you from the start, just like Outer Wilds.
Obra Dinn is still on my list. Some day I'm going to play it. Outer Wilds kind of isn't, since whenever I think about it, I start thinking it's overhyped and I'm just going to get disappointed by my own expectations.
@@AnotherDuck It's not overhyped, IMO. It truly is great. It inspires so many emotions during your playthrough, especially if you love exploration. I legitimately almost panicked the first time I accidently got lost out in space without my ship. Truly terrifying at times, yet also intriguing, very pretty, and just overall interesting. Take the time to play it.
@@AnotherDuck Outer Wilds is a phenomenal game. Go in as BLIND as possible. The biggest problem people have with this game is that they can't play it for the first time ever again.
@@AnotherDuck I'm going to assure you because I know how expectation can suck normally good experiences. Even if your expectations is on the ceiling with Outer Wilds and that counters balance almost anything good the game has to offer, it's gonna be at least *worth the time* spent playing. Go at it
Super Metroid is one of the best examples imo, there’s a lot of hard unlocks like all the ones you mention in the beginning of the video but the whole time you have access the hidden techniques like wall jumping or shinesparking, and once you’re made aware of those, you realize the potential you have to completely break the structure of the game and go through it in so many different ways.
I had completely forgotten, but this video got recommended to me when it came out. I ended up clicking off of the video and bought outer wilds shortly after and absolutely loved it. Now this video popped up in my feed again. Thank you for making me play Outer Wilds
For you reading that like this type of games and loves outer wilds, in 2024 will release Enigma of Fear. Is on Steam, is a non-linear investigation very outer wilds inspired. A mix of mystery and horror as a theme. It is a Brazilian indie game and for me as a Brazilian i'm so thrilled to play it. It looks soo good, and the brazil games community is very proud of it. Thank you if you read it or go search for the game, you will not regret it. Take care.
I think it's rhythmic style and how engaging it feels is why Sekiro is my favorite FromSoftware game. There is nothing else like it, there are dozen of souls-likes, only one Sekiro. The only one I know of recently that feels similar is the hidden gem Unsouled made by a solo dev. More people need to know of it's existence.
Wo long borrows pretty heavily from Sekiro especially since it uses posture and deflect as a major mechanic. While being a solid game its not quite as rewarding or satisfying as Sekiro and lacks a lot of polish in a lot of areas. I also recommend going back and trying Ninja Gaiden Black or Ninja Gaiden 2. While not quite the same in mechanics as Sekiro the combat mechanics are very rewarding in both games.
@@ATLien51 It's been on my radar since it was announced. I'm glad I waited for it to come to Steam, the updates post launch would have been a bummer missing out on. Especially the theater mode, now I can make a Sifu short film!
Outer Wilds is one of my favorite games of all time. I seriously regret looking up solutions to some of the coolest puzzles when I got stuck, because those are experiences I can never get back. Makes me feel pretty sad when I think about it, honestly
I forgave myself for not figuring everything out. And not being able to handle some of the horrors. I'd rather have the experience of the game, than get so frustrated and never see the ending.
Same :(, I searched up most of the endings and the coords and well.. most of end game (there is no real end-game I suppose) discoverments. Bought the dlc and because I was so scared I also searched most of it so I could know what I’m running into..
Subnautica has a lot of KBU's, in addition to the normal crafting progression. It's a wonderful experience for that reason. Basically, even just figuring out what is going on and what you need to requires a lot of knowledge and exploration. Nothing ever feels dictated to you even when it is; it all feels like organic discovery. When you do have explicit goals, you have to use your knowledge to achieve them. Myst and Riven (especially Riven) are the OG's of this genre. I recently had the most wonderful time replaying Riven as an adult. I didn't remember a single thing, and I was in awe of how the only way to progress was to treat the world as though it were real and really think hard and try to understand it. Anyway, thank you. Now that I know what this genre is called I am going to try to play everything you mentioned. I'm stoked that there is more out there.
Appreciate you deeply for selling people on Outer Wilds without spoiling the core mechanical loop. So many people just blurt that out unnecessarily without realizing it is by itself a great discovery if you can get into the game without being told about it. I will check out tunic, it seems fun! Thank you for the tip. It's true I wish I could purge my brain of outer wilds just to do it again.
I feel like Rain World definitely could fall under this category, with the many different enemy species that won't tell you if they're unfriendly or not. And of course, there's the movement. There's a whole ass google document movement guide for it all.
I think two strong contenders for this genre of game approach are Unsighted and Rain World. The first one a very interesting adventure akin to the Zelda dungeon I've been told but the game encourages you to break the first sequence on subsequent playthroughs to save everyone as time is running out. Rain world has a complex and living ecosystem, and an advanced movement set that you have to learn as you are almost at the bottom of the food chain. Both are masterpieces, and criminally underrated indie gems. Hope to see more from you, especially if you try them :D
I was thinking that I knew of a game that used your knowledge for the entire video but couldn't remember what game it was until I read Rain world And it wasn't that long that I stopped playing it, so it must be that my brain is too smooth
I think this relates a lot to the games I like. Games like minecraft, monster hunter, military or racing simulators all fall within this as you can't tutorialize so much information and nuance. It requires a repository of information that you learn and develop over time
Oh my god, this has turned into one of my favourite videos. You explore exactly why I love all these games. Slowly learning the layouts in Hollow Knight and Dark Souls, the learning of Outer Wilds and the HIGH of rebattles in Sekiro. You've put all my gaming feelings of the past few years into words here.
One criminally underrated knowledge-based game is the Lakeview Cabin series. It’s like small 2D Hitman levels, but you’re surviving horror movie spoofs instead of assassinating people.
i finished tunic earlier this summer, and I have to say that it is by far one the best video game experiences I have ever had. I'm so glad you covered it here, because I don't think the game gets nearly enough recognition.
This is a very good video. Like, every aspect is really good. Great pacing, no boring or repetitive parts, great visuals and editing, good spacing on the funny parts, overall great timing. 10/10 would watch again! Also, you made me really want to play Outer Wilds!
Existential horror is always what I felt playing Outer Wilds. Brrrr... I have some really bad memories of some places and honestly, the game isn't a horror game and it STILL manages to be one of the most lasting experience of angst I had in my (video game related) life.
In my personal opinion. There is one game that has this knowledge mechanic. And pulls it off better than any other game that even comes close. It’s Noita. The game throws you into a mysterious unknown world and teaches you these things and these things only. Press tab to open the menu, Buttons “1&2” swap wands, space to fly, F to kick. And that’s it. There is so much god damn depth to this game, it’s insane. It’s palatable and playable, but it is undoubtedly one of the most challenging games I’ve ever played. The only thing you earn from run to run is just, knowledge. Knowledge is power in Noita. So if you ever decide you pick up Noita (highly recommend if you like the game mechanics brought up in this video), please go in blindly to this game. At least beat the game once before you even THINK about looking something up. you get praise for successfully doing something and actually learning. Testing your curiosity, is rewarded in Noita. Or punished. You’ll usually learn which is which the hard way however.
I've gotten down to the third level, maybe 4th? But I've had a hard time getting into it. I don't really play rogue likes that often, so I get kind of lost as to how I'm "meant" to play the game.
@@Crazy_Diamond_75 You are meant to maximise: either go as fast as possible, or instead of down - move horisontally, or spend a bit of time trying to understand what things do. That they added the cast spell log in the holy mountain is extremely useful for understanding things, like spell wrap (but don't help to understand the magical properties of chainsaw). And then there is also knowledge of map, which can assist you greatly in e.g. reusing resources.
That's until some Jälkotaluttohissi picks up a wand with "summon Giant Blackhole" spell and decimates the surroundings. Noita is only really bearable with mods
@@overloader7900 Yeah yeah and you get all the chicks and have a million billion dollars and other such brags that nobody cares about because this is the internet and you're just some random person whose opinion doesn't matter.
i felt insanely proud of myself for having figured out (almost) all of it on my own, especially since I'm usually too dumb for puzzles in games and I rely way too much on guides in general the only time I used a guide and I felt like it *kinda* wasn't my fault was this one that used forced perspective and that in combination with the artstyle made it *really* hard to see the answer.... other than that it was so gratifying to watch the pieces fall into place!
@@m1rac1e TBH Obra Dinn was my kind of game... i'm an age of sail history nut so I got most of the references and even then I had to brute force a couple of the answers. If you're not that into the setting I could totally see how inscrutable it would be. Also, if i'm honest, I was a bit underwhelmed by the ending. I built up that hidden chapter wondering what they were going to fill it with and it was so banal and uninteresting that i was like... oh. That's disappointing.
i always call games that mainly utilize this mechanic (knowledge gating) "knowledge metroidvanias" and its my fav genre. the witness, tunic, fez, taiji, outer wilds, rain world, antichamber. these are my favourite ones. I want more games like this, because they give the best experience. it feels like a genuine sense of discovery, like you are the one who was first to discover it. this beings a closer relationship with the experience, much more powerful emotions and long lasting memories that shapes how i think.
I have a relationship with games like this that makes it so when someone asks "What are your favourite games" it makes it very hard to give them an answer that isn't exclusively this type of game. Which always confuses people, because by the nature of these games my playtime in these games is relatively short.
@@FizzTheKing I wouldn't count Subnautica in the same class. After all it's very much dependent on gathering upgrades and tools which block progress (unless you employ speed run strats).
Back when Mario Maker 1 didn't have checkpoints I remember playing a firebar level that at the midway point there was a pipe that took you back to the beginning of the level which revealed that there was a pipe behind one of the firebars at the start that you could have just entered in to skip half of the level the whole time. It was such a genius way to make psuedo-checkpoints and was definitely my first exposure to this concept.
In Mario maker 2 there are some level makers that have “knowledge checkpoints" in their levels. Where you play the level as you think it’s intended until you reach a dead end that reveals that the true path was hidden earlier in the level. It’s cool to see how these level makers have found clever ways and mechanics to extend the length of their levels. These knowledge checkpoints are usually in "troll" levels where the level maker uses common/uncommon knowledge of Mario games to trick you into dying. I hope that "troll" games that subverts players expectations of game tropes and mechanics will be a genre in the future, because those Mario maker troll levels are spectacular.
This is a very well-made video! I've only played Outer Wilds among the three games you featured and I can say for sure that the way you presented it is the best I've seen. Very persuasive while keeping spoilers to the bare minimum. I especially appreciate that you insisted on not disclosing THAT mechanic. I played this game completely blind and I was so taken aback by that event. So surreal. Also, you have an excellent sense of humor! Very good comedic beats and timing without being obnoxious with the frequency of jokes. That, on top of your skill in exhibiting games, made this video an absolute treat to watch. I've already finished Outer Wilds and I have my sights on Sekiro already for a long time. I have seen Tunic before but I wasn't inclined to play it though. However, I will definitely give it a shot after seeing your appraisal. You got yourself a subscriber!!!
Really hope that you'll consider continue making videos because this video was really high quality and an interesting subject and I would love to see more of your work
Your first official RU-vid video rocks dude. The contents awesome, delivery is clear, coherent, and on point, audio is crystal clear, and I had a great time watching it. Good luck for your channel.
This video was the reason I picked up outer wilds about 5 days ago, I finished it and the DLC and loved it so much I had to come back and Salute you my good sir, was absolutely amazing
Tunic was AMAZING!! I eventually had to look a thing up, (the big thing that was super easy to get wrong -- it was more of a lengthy endurance challenge than puzzle-solving) but I'm proud to have figured it all out on my own. I don't think I would have felt that way if I had "cheated". But the reason I'm commenting here is to suggest a game that is an older title than these, but not by much: The Witness. I'll never forget figuring out that there were more puzzles being presented to me than I thought just like Tunic has more places to go than you first realize. Neither situation is hidden; both are in plain sight if you know where to look. And both worlds LITERALLY open up once you know the secret. (I invite anyone who has played one or both of these games to give a thumbs up for my skillful use of wordplay. My ego is very fragile.)
Great video, good work! I really love those kinds of games, Tunic and Outer Wilds are definitely near the top for me. Someone coined the term Metroidbrainia for the genre and I think it fits well. The Witness is another really good game in that genre.
I'm so glad to have seen this video to introduce me to Outer Wilds, because it doesn't spoil that important bit, which I actually missed when I played it first but finding out about it the second time was absolutely beautiful. I've always been fascinated by the vasteness of space and so this whole game was a truly sublime experience. I cannot thank you enough for making this video ❤
The fun thing about Tunic is that there's a small community developing a mod for the game that randomizes all of the chests! After going through that second playthrough, now you have an effectively unlimited number of additional playthroughs where you might find a powerful item in the chest with a stick in it, or at the bottom of the deepest, darkest dungeon, or laying on the ground. The game is so open right from the start that the randomizer also offers the option to lock some of your learned knowledge away as an item to find! The Tunic randomizer is a ton of fun and why I continue to rack up hours and hours in the game.
Tunic is easily one of my favorite Metroidvanias out there. From the story to the progression, the entire game centers around how much the player is willing to pay attention and think. Every aspect of the game felels like a puzzle. Not to mention, it's so unique- I've never seen a Metroidvania that uses knowledge to gate progression instead of JUST finding more straight forward upgrades.
The typical Metroidvania approach to knowledge-gating is to show you the secret knowledge to pass the gate, AFTER you've already acquired the upgrade method to pass the gate, which is of limited utility in your first playthrough, but unlocks the time-attack/speed-run potential of your subsequent plays. For example, in Super Metroid, after completing your first lap of the map, defeating Kraid, and gathering High Jump Boots, Speed Booster, Ice Beam and Power Bombs, you are likely to encounter the Etecoons and Dachora creatures, who demonstrate to Samus the Wall-Jump and Shine-Spark, respectively. Samus can already do these things, the player just needs to be shown how. With that knowledge, you can now fight Crocomire for the Grapple Beam, using your traditional upgrades, OR go straight to the Wave Beam, which lets you open the back door to Crocomire's lair. It seems very minor, but armed with that knowledge during your second playthrough, you can pick up the Wave Beam MUCH earlier, saving yourself some very long detours an opening up the routes to "the good ending" (and more importantly, bragging rights over your friends)
I think I died more than 150 times on my first run of sekiro. On my second run, I didn't died at all. This is crazy how well rewarded you are for learning the mechanics of the game
so I can ovoid spoilers, I went to watch another video of yours and found the best guacamole recipe, also upload more your content looks really good so far
Dude, what a cool video! Especially thanks for being so mindful about the spoilers, you really got me interested in trying Outer Wilds and Tunic, they seem like such a unique experience that I can't wait to try now! It's so rare to see such a well-made really game-design oriented content. Keep em coming!
I love Sekiro, and this video fully encapsulates how I recommend it to people: Only play Sekiro if you’re willing to do a second play-through. Sekiro is a good game on your first time if you’re down to struggle with it. But it really shines as a truly incredible experience when you play it for a second (or third, or fourth, or fifth) time. If the list of games you want to play is really long and you don’t have the time for multiple play throughs of any single game, that’s totally fine, but your experience of Sekiro will be missing the thing that makes it special.
I think it would be amazing if more games did the "in game manual" thing with even more twists. Like, " oh no, the main villain changed the fabric of reality and now i have to check the manual to see what changed" and other similar ideas.
Tunic is so great. Outer Wilds is in my Top 3. And Sekiro will be my first FromSoftware game, because of this video. But dude, you didn’t touch on the absolute best textbook example of KBU thing: The Witness. If you never played it, please go in as blind as you can. Expect a puzzle game with some light exploration, and go from there. Remember when I said Outer Wilds is in my Top 3? Well, The Witness is my actual #1 favorite game of all time. I got in expecting to explore a colorful island with line puzzles to solve, and I got out of it with my mind literally exploding in ideas, perspectives, reconsiderations, and pure awe. I do not hesitate to say this game made me “a better person”, whatever that means. The Witness is probably like Sekiro in which there’s nothing you can get in order to make the game easier: you either learn what you’re supposed to learn, or you’re stuck until you do. Your brain really needs to hit gud. BUT!!!, the game is also very fair and extremely well designed, in which you always have the tools to challenge your assumptions that might be wrong until you crack them and reforge into better ones. And also the island is pretty big and there’s always a different area to explore if you get stuck in any one of them. Anyway, please play The Witness. Especially if you liked the late-game puzzles in TUNIC. ❤
I wish I could experience The Outer Wilds for the first time again... I did a second playthrough and finished it in the first cycle (after the intro cycle). Nothing stops you except the knowledge of what to do.
Sadly I never went back to finish the outer wilds, but when I first experienced the mechanic, I was horrified and amazed at the same time, it was a feeling that I really wish I could experience for the first time again. For anyone that hasn’t, I really recommend playing the game with no spoilers, and minimal knowledge of what your getting into, it’s great.
The first thing that came to my mind when I saw this video was a roguelike called Noita. It's an amazing game that is not entirely, but VERY largely based on knowledge. There is an absolutely gargantuan amount of content and mechanics hidden in the game. The game's also quite difficult and punishing, so every mechanic that you can take advantage of will be extremely useful.
1. In Knowledge Based Games you want to explore more. To understand, you have to seek more information. 2. Jonathan Blow, the developer of Braid, once said: In these types of games you want the player to experience an "ah ha" or "eureka" moment. What the player much do to figure out a new mechanic: try ways to overcome it, get stuck, then finally realize what to actually do. (You figuring out a puzzle is much different than a game handing you an answer it's puzzle.)
Toki Tori 2 is a fantastic and underappreciated example of this. You start off with basically all the tools you'll ever get and the game is all about learning how your stomps and tweets interact with the environment and the wildlife.
Outer Wild is trully a one of a kind experience. Really hope dev's hop on that genre soon enough, it was marvelous to explore that game. Too bad you can only play it for the first time once
I had an absolute blast decoding the language in Tunic as my wife played the game beside me. That was super fun and I have a notebook with many scribbles and theories before I found the full "alphabet" and was able to decode the entire manual
Great video! I would gladly welcome more games with KBU’s. It seems like designing a game with KBU’s implies significant horizontal progression as you discover what you can do with new items or mechanics. At least to me, that feels more satisfying than ‘numbers go brrrrr’. Or maybe I’m just burnt out by the standard jrpg format and want more archaic fox and archaic space xenopologist games. As a sidenote, I will mandatorily shout out Rainworld, because progression in that game is entirely comprised of KBU’s, and the game still needs more love dammit!
I feel like designing for KBU would be significantly more difficult than for other games, which may be why we don't see many of them nowadays. You need to strike that perfect balance, and not many games manage to do so.
@@DanAnd190 Absolutely. I think that designing for good KBU’s is similar to designing good puzzle games. Definitely requires a certain level of aptitude from the developer to make the process of discovering solutions difficult enough that the problems aren’t trivial and are actually satisfying to solve, but not so esoteric that playing without a walkthrough is basically impossible. On the topic of well-designed puzzle games, I would also recommend the Cube Escape series. I’d say that most of the games in the series manages to strike that balance very well.
@@Hilliam66 Nailed what I was trying to say perfectly, haha. I'll check it out. Got a long list of games now after going through this comment section a few days ago. Like I needed more games in my backlog...
THANK YOU for being so coy about the beginning of Outer Wilds. I love it deeply, but whenever I recommend it to friends, they want to learn more before playing, and they all rob themselves of that amazing first experience 😢 I yearn to experience it again, vicariously through others, but it breaks my heart to see the surprise ruined instead, every time. Maybe I just got lucky going in so blind
i actually noticed this a little bit while replaying the minish cap recently. obviously it's a zelda game so it's primarily using items for progression in the world, but there are small things that they leave knowledge-based, like how to defeat certain enemies, which i thought was cool. even though it was such a small part of the game, it really stood out to me!
Gaming is a very underrated learning tool gaming has some of the best ways of teaching stuff like problem solving hand eye coordination heck even learning stuff like real life religious stuff and sometimes even history. Hell I passed the ww2 portion of American history in high school just because at the time I was playing operation darkness . A ww2 game that included real historical battles and stuff like that
Knowledge based games are the fullest expression of the potential of video game design. It feels like exactly what this medium was always meant to be. More of these, please. They're the best of the medium.
Man , the amount of work put in to this video !! It feels like you actually explain something you like not read some article on some blog online and call it a video for youtube. Also, I loved outer wilds ! A sequel or something will be awesome.
The moment you started playing this very specific theme from Outer Wilds (around the 08:00 min mark), I had an immediate emotional reaction because I remembered when I first heard it and learned what it meant. The entire game is SUCH a master class in game design
I loved this video and the mechanic it describes! Another game with a lot of KBUs is Celeste. Every single mechanic and ability is available to the player at the very start, but it can take over a hundred hours to learn every nook and cranny of the game.
I instinctively started to tear up when you used the sun station theme as background music. Outer Wilds gave me an experience that no other form of media ever has. The fact that your goal in outer wilds is entirely dependant on your own drive and motivation made every single discovery and realization feel that much more personal. SPOILER WARNING BELOW Despite how disconnected it all feels, reading everything from writing on walls, I couldn't help but cry at the sun station reveal and the reveal of how the nomai all died because of how personal it all felt. The hatchling isn't invested in what happened to the nomai or how to stop the loop, I am. Im not experiencing a story through the eyes of someone else, Im experiencing everything myself.
Nothing nothing has resonated so much in me as outer wilds did,I cried so much when I learnt about what drove the nomai and what happened to them. When I finished outer wilds, I am a hundred percent certain outer wilds and blasphemous are two games who’ve shaped me into what I am today. You are right, I attend a lot of film and design festivals in my country and explore every kind of shapes storytelling may have, NOTHING compares to experiencing outer wilds. I purchased the owl dlc the day it released but haven’t played it yet as I’m saving this treasure for when I need it , if you know what I mean.
I think the folks behind the three games you featured/highlighted should properly appreciate and reward you. I'm definitely buying Outer Wilds and Tunic straight up because of this video. And Sekiro was already one of my all time favorites before coming in here (highly likely played a part in me relating to, literally, everything you said). Uh... Needless to say, I have absolutely enjoyed every second of this hidden gem of a video (praise the sun!...i mean the algorithm!) I subbed couple mins in. Amazing work, superdude. Please take care of that brilliant mind and bless us with more gems in the future 🙏
