WOW, I've never disagreed more with you on a knife. I can appreciate your inability to fall for the Arius as a great knife. We all have our thoughts and likes/dislikes. I don't see your dislikes as negatives, mostly I like all of them...lol. The detent is some of the best I've experienced, I love the reverse flick and flipper flick action. As with every video, I love your input and respect your insight even if I don't agree. Keep knocking it out Kevin, you're one of the best and informative channels in existence 🙌
Hahahah, yeah, my friend I traded it to also immediately declared the detent "perfection" and "one of the best he's ever experienced", because he generally wants a very strong, authoritative detent. But that's one of the parts of this hobby that make it so fascinating -- so much of it is subjective and people can have such wildly different preferences! The Arius is a *beloved* knife, and while I'm sure some of that is hype-following, I think the vast majority of that is just the knife genuinely really clicking with a lot of people and their preferences.
It's been my experience that there's been almost as much overlap in the "Arius is the best knife ever/Never handled one" venn diagram as there is in the "CRK is overpriced/Never handled one," which is impressive, if nothing else.
We all tend to do that unfortunately that’s why there is a whole discipline of knowledge called mass media and communication, not to mention the whole gamut of social media platforms. It’s the discipline that manages expectations, hype others and propagate myths and misinformation. But to be fair it empowers sometimes by being a source of knowledge and information as well. So if most people say something about a product, those who never experienced one personally will tend to repeat the majority opinion and defend it even when they have no personal experience to sway their opinion one way or the other. We hate to believe we don’t know.
@@mmikee407 yep having spent the week watching too many knife reviews I noticed they where repeating the knives advertising blurb without actually understanding what they where talking about. Folk often repeat what they have heard as fact because they would rather that than admit they don’t know.
I have a gen4 batch 12 and this thing flings out no matter if my finger is on lock bar or not and spidy flick is crazy good. Love everything about the arius
Glad to hear they fixed it on the big ones! I handled one of the minis recently, and they had definitely fixed it there. I could easily use the flipper tab even with significant pressure on the lock bar.
Good on you for being honest about everything and not just swooning over it. I think a lot of people, especially for knives at this price point, both consciously and unconsciously block out anything negative about the knife, no matter how big or small it may be, because they can't bring themselves to consider or admit that a pocketknife they paid about a thousand dollars for might be anything less than perfect. Its our job as knife content creators to remain as objective as possible. I admire your tenacity for speaking honestly here and not just fanboying. Thanks for sparing me from buying this one. One of my general rules of thumb with knives if "If I have to think about it every single time, it will annoy me every single time, and I don't want it." Your entire segment about the detent, lockbar pressure, issues with the fuller, just made me absolutely writhe in annoyed pain on your behalf. Great content, as always! Edit: I wonder of an excessive amount of thick lube like KPL heavy in the detent hole would be JUST enough to help the issue. Edit 2: On my first view of this video, I missed the part about being able to touch th eblade while it's closed. I absolutely agree that the angle of the knife as it sits in your pocket means that this probably won't happen, but as someone who has EXCLUSIVELY cut themselves on their knives while they were closed because of this issue, the Arius just complete died for me. Big bummer.
You have some decent knives on your channels, but once you have an Koenig or a shirogorov you’ll see what the “hype” is all about. Tight tolerances and fit and finish and the designs are unmatched. Reate knives are not bad for china. You get what you pay for. It’s that simple.
And btw the detention is perfect I love how pronounced this detent is even after a year of carrying it EVERYDAY. He just don’t have that flicker finger muscle LOL many he needs ta do some finger curls.
Brilliant analysis of the detent angels and pressures. I've got the exact same issue in another knife. It felt as though I was pushing the flipper tab against strong magnetic force. I never want another flipper like that!
Go get a Kubey 322 tityus for $35 from Atlantic knife , same shape blade . Great action . Do you have the money to get one of these but I think they call that knife the poor man’s Arias
I just purchased a Gen4 in titanium and will say most all the problems you are having with this knife go away when your hands are large or X-Large. I’m sold on its detent, ergonomics, and blade shape. The internal milling makes this knife comparable in weight to knives that have a carbon fiber show scale. If you are having a problem of pressure from a finger on the lockbar put your center finger directly on the pocket clip. No matter how hard you press against the clip it doesn’t touch the recessed lockbar. My Arius is definitely a keeper.
So I have to add on this I have the same identical knife mine GEN 4 Batch 10 and definitely have the same issue with any kind of pressure on the lock bar . That being said, and I’m also not thrilled with the pocket clip for some reason with jeans, it just doesn’t go all the way in unless you’re pushing it in . The balance and fit as you stated in hand is phenomenal. I’ve trained myself to make sure my fingers are clear of the lock bar when opening it from out of the pocket. By all means, when they say, this is a grail or the grail of knives production knives, they are not joking.. by accident I actually dropped this knife from about chest height when it was open and it fell and stuck in the floor just on the tip … and stayed standing, stuck in my kitchen floor, hardwood floor I should say. This knife is phenomenal. I do not flick it so I don’t really care about that. It is quite a shame that the prices have gone up so much on these are going for so much on the aftermarket I would buy another one . Sorry it’s not for you, but I would have a collection of them if I could . Believe it or not, I only paid 550 for mine .. thanks
Hahah, that's an awesome visual of it just stuck in the floor like that sticking straight up. Thank goodness it didn't cross any of your toes along the way! And haha, yeah, I can totally see wanting a whole set of them if the style and size all click with you. They're definitely exceptional knives!
This review represents exactly why I like your channel so much. The eye for detail and not jumping on bandwagons. I have a gen 4 batch 11 and was a tiny bit underwhelmed. The action is incredible and I love the desgin. But also find the word polished a bit misused. My main gripe are the visible milling lines, it just looks "unfinished". It really shows when in direct sun light. Overall it's a great knife but not sure if it's a keeper.
Thanks for the kind words! And yeah, like I said at the start, there's no doubt that the Arius is exceptionally well made and by far the major factor for why it wasn't for me was a matter of hand size and personal taste. But if you look closely, there simply *are* small things that other folks in that price range are doing "better". At least compared to the era I had, and as others have confirmed for me. Luckily, Bill is the kind of guy that is trying to continuously evolve and improve, so I've heard (and experienced on the Mini I had in) that the has addressed many of the things I thought could or should be changed with this knife.
agreed I have a carbon fiber one an noticed some very tiny finish flaws where the milling cut in a little deeper in one small spoton the carbon fiber also the brightwash blade leaves very fine lines that look like sharpening scratches but only in the bright light as they are not actual scratches no big deal but at 990 you can get nit picky
I've still never handled a Norseman, but I've read the stats on it's thickness (or should I say thinness), and you're definitely right. I know some people want hand-filling knives, but I've gotten quite used to tall, thin handles. But I guess it also depends on the cutting -- talk and thin works fine for most work, so I'll happily have it fit better in my pocket, but for really heavy duty cutting I probably want something thicker.
Agree completely. Would add that the wavy bulbous design isn’t my favorite (though that is subjective). There’s a reason so many of these pop up on secondary; indeed I bought two to try (F and NF), and sold them both. Think a lot of the hype has been due to scarcity…but they have pushed a ton of them recently, with secondary prices going table or below.
I've handled many of these. They are certainly well built. But don't like it in use. Not for me. I wish they would get a different designer and make new designs. That won't happen cause of its popularity.
Yeah, the huge demand and popularity combined with the small size of the shop definitely keep them firmly in the Arius realm. I, too, would love to see them branch out. I think another part of it is that, to my knowledge at least, Bill hasn't ever produced a knife of his own design, always partnering with other designers even in the early days when their knives were made by Millit. That puts Koenig in a very different camp than, say, the Holts or Craig Brown. Those makers want to design new knives, so they discontinue old models to free up the resources to create something new. Bill, by comparison, seems like he's trying to build out a knife production company, not be a custom maker.
I really love the Arius. I've had both the flipper and non-flipper (NF) and I feel like it's definitely a cut above Reate, just from fit and finish although subtly. The NF has a lighter detent than the flipper, which might be a bit more up the alley. It feels like an entirely different knife in use imo and I've used both of them. The steel is also HT to about 62~ and I can say the M390 sharpens better than most M390 on the market ex Holt and Reate. Outpost 76 did a cut test on it and performed within the top 10 of the maybe 80-100 M390 he's tested. I wear a SMALL sized glove so I can agree with you on the size it's really a big knife. It's nice to have a hunk of metal in your pocket from time to time though for me.
I've heard that same comment before about the NF having a lighter detent. I assume that's intentional, since often hole-only knives don't need as hard of a detent as a flipper knife does. I think you're right that that'd probably be more up my alley! And that's awesome to hear they do the heat treat so well!
Yeah, their unique and distinctive shape has always been polarizing -- to some it's their greatest strength, to others (myself included), it always kept me away.
I agree, just picked up an Arius and got it yesterday, just cannot with the detent. Too strong and makes it clunky to me, and yes finger flicking is near impossible. Maybe that breaks in but for $730 dollars I don't think it should need a break-in. It's an amazing knife, wish I loved it, but I don't. I also wish they didn't do so much weight relief. It feels too light to me but I like chunky heavy knives. Definitely going to sell it also.
I’m a huge Arius fan as I’ve stated before, but I will give you the points you made on finishing. I am a machinist and can confidently confirm what you’re saying about the tooling marks on the knives. I find it kinda neat, but I do wish it was better cleaned up and finished to make a *more* presentable product. Again, the Arius is my favorite knife and my daily carry, and I think it is an amazing knife.
Hahah, thanks for the confirmation! It's not a functional problem at all, and as someone with an interest in machining and visibility into how something was made, I find it kinda neat as well! But it definitely feels like something that was _left_ there, not _put_ there, and as a result it feels like the kind of thing that should have been cleaned up, in general, but especially at this price point.
@@KnifeNerdery I will agree with this point. It’s nothing I’ve really thought about too much, but you make several good points comparing to knives of similar price in this video. A VERY fair criticism of the knife imho.
I have two of the Gen4s. Thankfully my detents are perfect from new. Both are easy to flip with finger nail in most any position or direction and the flipper tab is very smooth and easy ..even with pressure on the lockbar. One of my mine is carbon and it is slightly softer in terms of the detent but the full Ti version isn't bad at all.
I've heard from some folks that they can indeed break in to a point where the action great and lockbar sensitivity is not an issue. Most people say that's been their experience, with only a few long-term users saying theirs have stayed overly strong throughout. I've also heard that there's significant differences between the batches in Gen 4, and some earlier batches came with less sensitivity from the get-go. Glad to hear yours are dialed in well!
I have noticed a similar too strong detent on the newer Koenigs. I have a Gen 4 Batch 3 textured that I absolutely love. The detent is much light and with less engagement than I have seen on the newer ones. It is super easy to flip, and the middle finger flick is really easy too. I would recommend one of the earlier batches if you want that lighter detent!
Ooo, excellent information! I've also heard from several people that the non-flipper variants have a consistently lighter detent, and given that that's my preferred opening method anyway, that might be right up my alley too. Only problem there is those also have a finger choil, and well, the handle is way bigger than I need already without a place to choke up! 😅
I’ve owned multiple Reates, crk’s, rhk’s, and Shiros. And while I agree with your point regarding the machining lines in this Arius example. I would argue the only company that has consistently even kept close with Koenig has been Shirogorov. Note I’m not counting my Holt that I own in this comparison, I do feel like they’re substantially smaller batch products then Koenig. All that being said, while I don’t care for the clip I think my G4B7 arius is much more fidgety than anything else I own. Love your videos dude! Keep them coming
Yeah, the more I've thought about it, the more I think folks just aren't comparing Koenigs to things like Holt -- and like you said, that's a reasonable stance, as Holts are indeed a lot smaller-batch and _more_ in the direction of "customs". But they're also competing in roughly the same price bracket and made using roughly the same technologies and practices, so it's a comparison I think folks ought to still make, too. And that's awesome to hear the G4B7 batches have a fun, enjoyable action!
Absolutely -- the first time I saw the KU322 I immediately said "Oh huh, so Kubey made a budget Arius", but you're totally right about the Noble having the handle too!
The Koenig Arius is a really cool looking knife. On the Koenig website the list price is 675. I would say the knife is worth 675. Arizona Custom Knives has one listed for 1900.00 $, and another one listed for 2500.00 $ It’s a Production knife. A mid tech at best. I think the Arius is the most over hyped knife. It’s treated as a status symbol. If you own one your collection is cool. If you don’t own one your collection is lacking!! Rockstead s are expensive and over hyped also. But with Rockstead you know you are paying for that amazing polishing on the blades. I sort of want an Arius, but I don’t see the value in the knife. If you love a certain knife you don’t mind over paying for it! Your version is one of the best I’ve seen. I would want all silver, or a red carbon fiber with a mirror polished blade. Look at all the customization you can get from Olamic Cutlery. You can design your own knife. Koenig does not offer good value. It’s a shame the knives are so badly over hyped!!
Hahah, yeah, you're absolutely right -- way too many people treat it as a status symbol, and a lot of the secondary pricing is hype. Their manufacturing and quality is great enough that I too think they've earned their (high!) table price, but not the wild aftermarket prices some have gone for. The $2500 ones you mention tend to be "rare" configurations, where what's different isn't something *better*, just something less common -- but hugely inflated scarcity pricing only can exist if there's a cultlike following trying to collect it! It would definitely be incredible to see the Olamic model of customization available from a company that also does the in-house manufacturing. It's honestly kind of hard to understand why that *doesn't* exist already. The end product would be pretty expensive, but there are certainly people who would be willing to pay for it. The closest path to that today would be sending your Arius (or whatever knife) off to a 3rd party knife modder. Folks like Cap City Creations and Knife Modders are putting out some amazing versions of production knives!
When you are talking about loosening the lock bar are you saying you would bend it out? Because titanium doesn’t behave like steel, I have a ti bike and the chainstay had a slight bend in it, had a hard time persuading the mechanic to bend it back into place because he said it had a kind of memory which basically meant if he didn’t get it perfect first time it would be wrecked, made me swear I wouldn’t hold him responsible if it went wrong. Luckily it didn’t but be careful if you ever decide to do that.
Yeah, it's true that titanium is more likely to crack than steel, but you definitely can tune the lock bar by over-bending it outward or inward as needed. I've done it to many knives, and filmed myself doing the full process on two knives to put up as a video at some point. (I don't think that ever made it up yet? I'll have to go look.) Some lock bars are a lot thicker and stiffer than others, making it a lot harder or requiring heat to bend enough to impact the resting position. But we're talking very small changes here -- less than half a mm.
For me my non flipper Arius and my sebenza insingo are my 2 favorite and most used knives outside of my reground spyderco knives. If the Arius had a deeper carry milled ti clip, k390 steel, and a thinner hollow grind it would be the best knife for me and I would own multiple versions of them.
Oh man, a deep-carry, ultra-edge-retention steeled, thinner-ground Arius would be *many* people's "best knife". That'd sell like hot cakes! Though I guess the originally _already_ sells like hot cakes, so... 🤷🏼♂️
Interesting that you mention it bothers you when a knife company could make a knife carry deeper and they don't. Meanwhile, I hate deep carry clips. That's why people use lanyards, more to grab. I like to have enough to grab without a lanyard, and the push for deep carry on everything drives me nuts.
Awesome content as always, Kevin. I’ve also been trying out a gen 4 Arius, my first. It’s a better fit for me, but the one thing that’s been bugging me is the detent. I have the smallest bit of movement when the knife is locked up and I put pressure on the flipper tab. I don’t think it’s lash because the knife pushes back. It’s interesting because it doesn’t go away when putting pressure on the lock bar. Probably this is due to wear in of that deep engagement, like you mentioned. Not a deal breaker but it’s become the one thing I notice when using the knife.
i have 3 arius’ and i know what you mean. its totally normal, nothing to worry about. given the detent rigidity you are actually feeling the lock bar flexing hence still feeling it when pushing on the lock bar.
Ah, yeah -- I think @ZKP is right and you're either feeling the lock bar flexing or the detent ball riding partway up the detent ball and then sliding back down, or both. Honestly, almost all knives will do this a little bit, but it's a lot more noticeable on knives with longer, more flexible lock bars. As you stated, true "detent lash" happens when the size or alignment of the detent hole allows the blade to shift _and stay in place_ without sliding back.
I haven't looked at the secondary prices in a couple months, but last I checked the table was $700-750 and secondary was $800-850 for a PJ. Fancy-material, limited editions can run multiple thousands.
I’m sure it’s very high quality (never handled one) but a couple things have always bothered me about the design. 1. The handle is so “bulbous” looking and throws the proportion of the blade to handle off, it may be super comfortable but just looks weird to me. 2. The back end of the knife is pretty much an abortion (to me) weird pointy looking lanyard attachment which would be bad in a reverse grip and a pocket clip that leaves tons of knife sticking out 🤷🏻♂️ 3. Then there’s the pain in the ass of getting one... All in all I think there’s way too much hype surrounding this knife - then to find out it wasn’t even designed by Bill (heard that before but reminded by your vid) that’s kinda weird too. Solid pass for me but if people have em and love em that’s great 👍🏻
I think you left nick in the weeds on this one, ,excellent explanation of the detent ball,it's pretty but if it were me I believe I would have to pass it on as well, appreciate your thoroughness, thought I wanted one before I watched this,
In some cases the knife manufacturer prioritizes comfort over deep carry. Since it would have been fairly easy to set the clip much higher, I suspect this is the reason here as well.
Haha! It WAS strange that I didn’t care about the sloppy finishing. I always thought it might have something to do with the fact that the scales are contoured, making it hard to finely even out tool marks..🧐 But what killef the knife for me was the esthetics, too much of a statement, to much presence, for me to be comfortable using it in daily circumstances. Also, I think it felt a little hollow and rattly on closing action.
Yeah, ultimately that's one of the biggest detractors for me, too. It's a *bold* aesthetic -- too much presence, as you aptly put it, for my minimalist preferences. The opposite of Quiet Carry, for example.
I thought maybe it was a lemon, but from talking with folks (including Bill), this is how it's "supposed" to be, but folks say it eventually breaks in. Was yours like that even when new?
Yup. It's what people call a "plane" or "plane Jane" handle, and it's the most common. All others will get some kind of adjective, like "textured" or "Style 55".
Out of my price range but I think it would look better if the hump or blade rise were smaller so that the hole was more of a slit. Just my preference for slightly narrower blade.
Yeah, the very prominent thumb ramp hump is one of its most iconic features, but it's also one of the things that makes it not quite my style, too. People often say the Kubey K322 has strong Arius vibes -- what do you think of its blade profile?
I haven't gotten to check one of those out yet, no. I'm still quite curious about it, but I even if it fits my hand perfectly, I suspect it'll never be quite a "Me" knife, just aesthetically.
Seems to me that you *could* reduce the size of the detent hole by dropping a tiny amount of epoxy or super glue in there. Of course that's not what you want to do with an $800 knife!
That's an interesting idea, and it's possible something like that could work, or work well enough. The easiest way to approach that would be to fill the hole in slightly using glue/epoxy. This would change the depth of the hole, not its width, and would thus prevent the detent ball from seating all the way in. This would unavoidably introduce detent play, though, as the hole (which is still centered above the ball) would be larger than the cross-sectional width of the ball at that point. Detent lash/rattle drives some people crazy but doesn't matter at all to others, so maybe this route would be an easy fix sufficient for some folks. Ideally, though, you'd want the _width_ of the detent hole to be smaller. It would also theoretically be possible to coat the walls of the detent hole with some kind of filler to "add material back in", but things get pretty tricky at this point. To avoid detent lash, you'd need to add material evenly around the entire circumference of the circle, but that means the material running up the side of the detent ball would now be whatever your filler is, not the blade steel. At that point you're looking at hardness and wear properties of the filler material -- how fast will a ceramic detent ball wear away epoxy? Plus, it'd be pretty darn hard to create an even, clean edge on your newly built-up filler layer, and odds are pretty high that you'd unintentionally create a sloped or rounded corner, which would significantly _over_ weaken the detent by markedly lowering the engagement angle. If one were ambitious enough, probably the best way to get a clean, crisp edge would be to completely fill the detent hole and then carefully re-drill the hole (into the filler material) with a narrower diameter.
Your review is not for the faint hearted who follow in the footsteps of the majority opinion within the community. Your review are for the critical minded person who would not be swayed by any hype and will go on any product with a fine tooth comb and won’t assume anything a priori.
You can’t even compare reate to Koenig. Yea, reate makes insanely 😢great knives for their prices. But I’ve handled A TON of their models and they don’t come close to what Bill is doing with his knives. Just the feel in hand immediately screams that it’s in a different league. The finish “issues” you’re talking about Are done on purpose by Koenig to give them the machined look. Same with how grimsmo does them on their Norseman blades. All said, these feel NOTHING like a reate. Not even close. I have to disagree with you completely.
Haha, in fairness I said that to me, the knife I had felt _more like_ a Reate than, say, a Holt or Herman, or other ultra-high-end CNC knives I've owned. But given that this is the only Koenig I've ever handled, and it's their most plane-jane model, I'll definitely trust you that on average they feel markedly above. Thanks for the info!
Haha, I mean you're right -- my intuition for how to open it based in all the other knives I have was indeed wrong: I could flick with the nail of my finger at all despite the size and shape of the hole, and I couldn't flick upward at all. I figured it out (you can see me flick it many times in the video), but It required me pressing the meat of my finger against the crisp edge and flicking almost exclusively outward, with almost no upward directionality. And that's just not a comfortable way for me to flick. I can certainly do it, and it works reliably, it's just not how I want to have to flick a knife. But yeah, I indeed initially "didn't know how" to flick it. 😝😅
Holt and Craig brown are like those Rolex’s with pink diamonds stuck all over them, engineerings definitely there but are only bought by footballers wives and Russian oligarch daughters IMHO
🤣 That's a hilarious comparison, and I can definitely see that analogy with just how bright, flashy, and decorative some of the Holts and Brown knives are. It took me a long time to hunt down a plain, nude Haptic, 'cause I personally am not into the flash either.
I think a lot of this boils down to you not allowing for creative freedoms in your mind and having extremely knit-pickey opinions. The whole fuller and opening hole rant, and the chamfering on the body behind the flipper rant, was extremely lame.
🤣🤣🤣 Yeah, if you don't like me pointing out when aesthetic design choices have a negative functional impact, my videos definitely aren't going to be for you. In fairness, I also point out the opposite -- when things work better than you're expected because of small choices. But yeah, I'm pretty nitpicky. 😅 Sorry you didn't enjoy the video!
I totally appreciate you explaining your POV!:) I personally love my Koenig Arius!! Being a full size carrier, this is just right. Thank you for sharing your thoughts!! Victor _shnazamoto
