Some excerpts from the Primach Horus Heresy book 12: Konrad Curze: the Night Haunter written by Guy Halet Narrated by Jonathan Keeble. One of my favorite Primachs. Soundtrack: 40k why do I live
I have always loved this moment. This is either the Emperor's last words to his lost son, or the rambling phantasy of a madman... and I absolutely love how we just do not know which it is!
Yeah he is literally getting his soul and mind torn apart daily just trying to hold the webway shut so Terra isn't flooded with daemons and keeping the astronomicon lit for humanity. If the emperor dies then it's a wrap for Terra and humanity as whole since he doesn't have Magnus to replace him if need be.
The fact that Guilliman was possessed by the Emperor all the way from Terra means that the conversation was most likely genuine. Though it contradicts the Emperor's admittance of them being only tools in Master of Mankind or it could be that he intends everyone to think so.
Only Arkham Land sees him as an uncaring father. More depictions and better written depictions, show him to actually care for his son's. The Emperor not loving his sons is one of the dumbest things the lore could do. Hell, Angrons existence becomes a plot hole, if Angron was just a tool, he'd have been wiped from history long before the Heresy.
@@Eleven217 ADB tends towards the Emperor being as shitty as possible representation which is generally a poorly thought out standpoint for the lore. I also think the most reliable sources presented in lore point to the Emperor being a good guy, the majority of Primarchs, Malcador and even Erda. Erda, despite scattering the Primarchs, still explains that the Emperor is ultimately a very likable person and generally a good guy, and, the best/only hope for humanity. It's just stupid that she betrays him because she felt he was doing things too fast. And in Master of Mankind, when talking about the Primarchs with Malcador, the Emperor genuinely cares about the sons mentioned, showing faith in Lion, regretting the loss of Alpharius and the death of Ferrus, hoping to be able to do something about it, and pondering where Khan's loyalty would fall.
i do pitty konrad out of all the traitors only konrad and perty did what they did because they just NEEDED a hug angron was far to far gone fulgrim and horus needed an exorcism and perhaps a few years of detox and mortarion just rly fking hated the shit that was going on with the imperium and his father so rly... who knows i am 99% sure if perty and konrad had arrived on terra and faced the emperor again they would have flipped again
Konrad should have been given to Sanguinius who can also see the future. Maybe since Sanguinius can relate to Konrad, he can bond with him better and put him on a straighter path much like the Blood Angels who were aggressive before he was discovered. Plus, the edgiest out of all the primarchs ending up evil is pretty predictable.
I have a headcannon that Konrads insanity is due to untreated DID. As a primarch, part of his personality and a lot of his natural skills and tendencies are ingrained into them by the emperor. Konrads foresight, sense of justice, and tactical approach are all examples of his ingrained traits. The rest of the primarchs personality was formed by the planet they landed on. We all know Curzes home planet was a nightmare. His horrific visions, inability to interpret them with nuance(aka realize this is just 1 of many futures) and his time living among the criminals of Nostramo would form the rest of Konrads personality. DID, or dissociative identity disorder, occurs due to severe childhood trauma resulting in different aspects of a person’s personality/consciousness(idk if that’s the best word) being unable to merge into a unified singular personality. Irl this results in multiple distinct and independent consciousness inhabiting the same body. There’s no limit to how many alters can exist within a person, and depending on a various factors, even take control of the body. In real life, one alter is usually the host, with either that same alter or a different one taking front, or control of the body. Sometimes events can trigger a switch where a different alter, usually formed for a specific purpose, will take front.(many alters are for lack of a better word trauma responses. They are designed to front in specific situations) For Konrad, this would manifest in his consciousness being split into 2 alters. The first being, The night haunter. This is his host alter and the one fronting 90% of the time. This alter is Konrads way dealing with his visions and environment. His sense of justice was too strong to let the crime continue but his visions were always dark and worst of all, he never seemed to be able to recall a time it didn’t come true. This caused the night haunter lean into fate. Konrad needed to stop the brutality. He formed the night haunter to be something worse. The second alter is Konrad Curze, and he is formed from the base Ingrained traits of the emperor, but unable to believe in forgiveness or mercy for himself. He hated the crimes he committed as the night haunter, but was powerless to stop him from taking control. Konrad rarely ever fronted in public. The best example of when he did was when he fought sanginius and thought the angel would kill him. He was genuinely happy for the first time, because that would mean the night haunter was wrong. Fate isn’t set in stone. He wasn’t made to be a monster. He immediately switched back to the night haunter after sanginius said he wouldn’t kill him. If Konrad had gotten treatment he would have been a great candidate to lead an actually helpful inquisition
I love the grey knights, by being a Legion without a primarch and falling fully to the protection of humanity, but damn. Kurze makes me love the night haunters, not the chaos, savage ones, but the ones still loyal to his teachings..
"Son, it's not my fault i didnt bother to do anything to help when you very clearly needed; rather it's no ones fault." -Big E, a man who couldnt do absolutely anything at all during all that time.
@@impguardwarhamer not saying he can do everything I'm saying he dodnt even try to help his literal son who was supposed to be a military leader. He easily could spared a week or two to atleast try and help
@@badassgibus You say he never tried to help, but the first thing he did upon meeting him was calm Konrad's mind when he started trying to claw his own eyes out after seeing the Emperor's future. Then the Primarch he was given to mentor him was Fulgrim, who at the time wasn't only one of the earliest found and most experienced, wasn't only the one who literally bore the Imperial Aquila upon his shoulder, but was also one of the most "Ideal" Primarchs next to Horus himself. The only person who outshined Fulgrim at the time was Horus and later maybe Sanguinius. For a long time Curze was okay as he was mentored by Fulgrim, after he left again is when his visions started acting up. Even then, after he blew up Nostramo and his insanity was made blatant, the Emperor called for the 8th to return to Terra and sent Jaghtai, Horus and Vulkan to get him back. The 3 legions cornered his fleet, but sadly Horus was already corrupted and used his capture instead to turn him to rebellion. Yet again, right before Sanguinius went to Terra, he launched Curze out of his ship so that he could meet his fate, just as Sanguinius was going to meet his. Then after it all, the Big E comes to him while stuck on the Throne just to talk and tell him it wasn't his fault and he could've saved him, then forgives him. The Emperor only directly helped once yes, but every time after that he tried his best to correct Curze with what he had available to him and that was other Primarchs. Like the guy above said, Big E couldn't be everywhere at once and that's why he had his sons. In my opinion, they failed him in that regard
Ok first why would he let his PRIMARCH son cripple / kill himself? 2nd why the pompous show off to help him rather than someone like sanguinius who was the most lovable of the group and had the same future seeing problems though not as bad or horus? Yeah fulgrim was likable but likable doesnt really help with your own personal issues. And not only that he just assumed kurze was just having a mental fit and though that just bringing him home would fix everything. Also you say his insanity was made clear yet you blindly assume kurze was having an actual conversation with his dad or him hallucinating the whole thing. Everything big e did was just "look how great this is, just get over yourself" without ever so much as just getting him a therapist or have him spend time with the one guy who had even somewhat the same problem he did
@@badassgibus Fulgrim wasn't chosen because he's likeable, that's one of the reason. He was chosen because he was basically a figure like Sanguinius and had potential to be an amazing teacher to Konrad. Why Sanguinius wasn't chosen I don't know, but Fulgrim was still a great choice. And I said his insanity was made clear when he blew up Nostramo, not during his last conversation with the Emperor. When he blew up Nostramo, Curze was called back to Terra because the Emperor had plans to talk to him and fix him. Clearly he assumed Curze would be fine till the Crusade ended but turns out he wasn't. His brothers were supposed to be his therapy during the Crusade seeing as the Emperor couldn't be there....
Imagine sanguinis saw all his brothers well and happy to see them be the pillars of humanity, why he loved his brothers even with all their flaws same with vulken, the Emperor knew none of these men deserved the hell he put them threw, sad he only wished for his sons to be strong and to reject the world that tears them down and to lift humanity no matter the cost, damn just the fact the Emperor new this, does he really love us or are we just pawns to him
Jonathan Keeble was born for narrating Warhammer books, and it never stops amazing me when I hear him. He also is the narrator of Helsreach, and by extension performs the voices for the SFM series/movie.
Me reading/listening to the Hours Heresy of the Primarchs struggles and tragedies, I wish to see this adapted to a TV show for more people to experience this story.
This is true it is a amalgamation of fleshshapedlikethe emperor. Not sure if this is his broken sanity or if it's the Emperor actually psychic projection talking to him.
"nothing ever dies. Death is a state of transition." I consider having my soul absorbed by the warp and dissipating into nothingness death, Mr Emperor.
i love the voice for the big man on high but I would love an Andrew Wincott Conrad here. the voice he gives night lords has quickly become the voice I attach to them calm slow but vicious.
I really don’t side with Big E saying: „you don’t understand the pain i suffered“. From the memories i remember, Big E was never the kind of person being too attached to things except for rare few things suchs as Malcador, Horus, his attempted Webway and maybe Vulcan. Otherwise, he always seemed like a cold and calculated person even way back when he executed all the Thunder Warriors. He just always seemed like the kind of person trying to achieve the goal of Mankind with emotionless prejudice. So i really wonder dafuq he talking about, saying his pain is greater than Kurze‘s?
Headcanon, but; Can you imagine how lonely Emperor must be? He's the only one of his kind, no one who could even begin to truly understand him. He's doomed to wander the galaxy, immortal, all-powerful being with nothing and no-one. Too human to be a god, but too god to be a human. Then, something happened. Psykers started popping up. Humanity was evolving into a psychic race. If only he could, against all odds, to prevent the humanity from repeating the mistakes of eldar, he could see their evolution through. He could finally be seen as equal among peers. The eldar were weak, necrons still asleep, orks fighting themselves and majority of planets were already populated by humans. Stars were literally aligned. It could actually be done. Then Horus betrays him, Magnus does nothing wrong, the webway project fails and all hope for mankind is lost. And he's forced to sit down, unable to do anything as all he built turns into a twisted parody of itself. A chaos-feeding human misery machine. All while knowing he only has himself to blame. All this said, I choose to believe Curze just hallucinated. It's way more interesting if all "emperor" said was already in his subconsciousness and this was him finally acknowledging it.
He still has humanity underneath all of his stoicism. He probably experiences suffering, he just hides it away as it would make him look weak to his subordinates.
Emps might be confronted with the painful truth of Konrad’s words. Not only that but of how similar he is to Curze: “ends justify the means” amd coming face to face with the living, breathing embodiment of one of your darkest expressions of that cold practicality as well as the failure that he himself is both to the primarchs, humanity, and his own dream in the pursuit of that very dream all the while trying to deflect from it
I mean there's not any POV of the Emperor so we can't really know what he truly feels. But it's pretty much confirmed he truly loved Horus and Valdor, and Malcador was his only real friend.
@@MrSamulai No, the Night Haunter was. Lorgar just went on a journey to understand the universe and failed to have enough self awareness to realise that believing in the rightness of God is not a virtue on its own. Actually, you may have a point here about Lorgar having been the Human one.
i do think the Emperor really cared about the Primarch more so as sons, but tried to push them away & consider them tools, ends to a mean to unite the galaxy to destroy Chaos, maybe if Erebus was killed or stopped and the Heresy never happened i wonder if he could finally rest and spend time with his sons, i guess thats just wishful thinking.
Beautiful man!simply beautiful...the monster was a monster for a reason...but what the creator, the father endured...it's something beyond mortal comprehension...you can feel the pain here,the regret...such awesome narration of the dialogues!
Anyone that answers the trolley problem with "I pull the lever!" too quickly or too enthusastically should be put on a watch list. Though knowing how our own governments act more grimdark than 40K sometimes, it'd probably be for recruitment. Also, friendly reminder that Connie's tactics don't actually work in the real world.
They do tho. Not on a planetary scale but you have people like Stalin, Kim Jung, and even early American history dealing slaves that fear subjugates an entire populace. For Stalin it was killing you outright or sending you to an island where no one escapes. For Kim it was sending you to hard labor until you die and punishing your family for generations. For slavery it was killing off all the warriors so the mothers would teach their children to fear the master until it became ingrained in them. So unfortunately it's effective, but fortunately the effects only last for as long as you let them because people get used to the fear of death to the point they have nothing to lose and will actively fight back.
@@thedarkrider987 you are so right. The ussr wasn't having to constantly put out fires and there weren't constant slave rebellions. Wait, what USSR? The Nazis doing horrific shit to them made them fold and surrender.
I don’t know why and maybe it’s just me, he makes Curze sound choked up when talking about what happens to his brothers. Dorn, Sanguinius and then Ferrus and Fulgrim. Because if I am correct, Corvus and Lorgar were really the only 2 of his brothers he truly had anything against.
To be fair konrad if only the few souls on your homeworld. Probably a mother raised you in any capacity with genuine love. Since even in that forever darkened world there is one concept that should exist. Despite the gangs there are family the most common ones. Who know their life is not the best but are still surviving. They don’t risk too much because they know it won’t help anyone. I wonder what the damage … Timeline konrad curse is raised for a brief team by a kind surviving couple. They adopt him as even they knew producing a child would take the life out of the mother. As time went on however deposit her harshness of their worlds. They did Ins-till careful kindness into the boy. Oh and then tragedy seeing foster parents murdered by a gang. They didn’t even have much of reason as they were well off with the power and strength they had. Konrad understandably becomes a very deadly version of Batman. The night haunter still exists but is tempered just a bit by the fact konrad has some good bits in his life.
One of the Best and the Worst legions. Their tactics are brutal to avoid casualties yet the majority enjoy the torture they inflict. They didn't care or follow Chaos,yet they didn't care to stop it from spreading either. Don't care about Honor or Glory,yet they're spiteful for being viewed as monsters (despite this being their entire purpose). They became traitors for Treasons Sake and After Conrad was out of the Picture devolved into Raiders and Pirates
I mean, the webway project was VERY closely guarded secret. For good reasons, I'm sure, but without knowing about it, Emperor seems like just another ambitious asshole, albeit more successful than the rest.
