В районе мостов неглубокая река, и она выглядит менее опасной для перехода вброд чем переход по мосту, у девушек просто не было причин пользоваться мостом, потому что в то время было два дождя - один сильный 3 апреля с 19 вечера по 02 ночи (и он смыл следы девушек, поэтому сложнее было искать с поисковыми собаками с 4 апреля - ужасно не повезло(((((), и поэтому река не должна была быть особо бурной в то время, значит они не могли сорваться с моста, эта версия надумана. Спасибо за видео
Correcto, para ser más claros no hay razón alguna para que las chicas llegaran a este rio. Su ultima foto es un sitio distante y a una hora poco adecuada para caminar hasta aquí. Tendrian que haber caminado solo hacia adelante y por alguna razón no dar vueltas atras hacia el mirador y despues hacia Boquete. Ese es el punto, no hay razón por la cual ellas fuesen utilizado este puente de cable, es una teoría que se refuta facil.
Неоднозначные выводы, и кстати они могли получить травмы и при попытке пересечь реку вброд, хотя это конечно менее вероятно чем падение с высоты. У Лисанн вроде бы травма стопы, которая к моменту смерти уже начала заживать? Люди получают травмы и при более странных обстоятельствах чем переход речки вброд, в травматологии подтвердят. Но тут всё упирается в травмы у обоих - сорваться с моста могли как одновременно
@@AndreyQuinoa Perhaps they went down to get water. Kris fell hit her head. This might be the location of the night photos. It is difficult to understand how steep the banks are from these videos, but probably quite steep.
apenas vi ayer el video que hiciste hace 3 meses y hoy hay el del puente de monos. perfecto trabajo, ojala hagas mas videos de todo el trayecto. muchas gracias por tu dedicacion.
I think the footage of this entire river holds the key to the location of the nighttime photos. You are doing great work. One thing I’m wondering is if the search team made any efforts like this during the search? I feel like they would’ve eventually stumbled upon their location if they would’ve used a drone to search the river.
I don't think they used any drone in the rescue or searching processes which lasted for 10 days. Hard to believe that they couldn't afford to buy some drones unless they did not really want to find the missing girls.
Its obvious kris try to cross the monkey bridge and fell into the river hitting her head. She was stuck there, after few days she passed away. Liz tried to get help but lost her way. The damaged shorts soaked in water and broke pelvis is the evidence.
In such a scenario you woul call the emergency much more often than they did. You would also contact the locals that you know, for example the hosts where they stayed. @@markfish1113
12:12 I see a face on a stone. Under the water, between two trees, just above the white foam, to the right of a large round stone. Female, one eye is very clearly visible (the place of the second is covered by a neighboring stone), a rather beautiful nose for a woman (slightly snub-nosed, two nostrils are even visible), and a barely noticeable mouth. It is likely that this will be explained by a game of imagination - speleologists often notice such things and call them the "master of the cave". But does anyone else see him?
hoy 23 de octubre de 2023 veo al pueblo panameño juntoss por problema de las minas..mineral que se llevan los chinos....pero hace mucho nadie salio a peddir justicia por las niñas holandesas...gracias por tu excelente video
I have a question. If your come down from the direction of the Mirador and cross this cleared area leading to the bridge seen here, do you have to cross this first bridge in order to get to the *second* bridge further to the North....? If this suggestion that the two friends somehow got confused and ended up headed towards this first bridge is to have any truth to it, then I think you have to put yourself in their place here and try to think on what they were trying to aim for. The trail seems very clear - it is carved into the landscape by many many generations of local people and travellers - but if something is pushing the two friends on and they are said to have come to grief on the SECOND bridge, then it is important to know whether they had to cross this first bridge here to get there, or whether they might have been able to walk past this first bridge, without crossing it, and get to that second bridge by following the course of the river... When you think on this though, what is the point? If you cross the first bridge are you following a path that leads to the second bridge? And if you are following one long path here how then can you possibly get so very confused as to not just go back the way you came?! One long trail carved into the landscape. All these clearances on the way to this bridge and beyond, and you never see anything, or anyone.... Very very strange.
En realidad no parece tener sentido que las chicas llegaran a este punto, basandonos en el sitio y hora de la ultima foto conocida (507- 508). Estos puentes no son atractivos túristicos y lo más llamativo del sendero es el mirador, especificamente en este sitio NO HAY cascadas "túristicas" pues estan en otras zonas, incluso lo más parecido a una cascada esta justo en el sendero (lo que algunos llaman 3er rio que esta minutos antes de los potreros) pero curiosamente ellas de haber seguido el sendero, no fotografiaron este sitio! Un senderista regular puede asegurar que este lugar no es un sitio donde te pierdes facil, de verdad el sendero es muy demarcado. Habria que hacer algo imprudente para perderse, no se cual seria el estado de este sendero en 2014, pero algo si especulo es que por la manera como andaban vestidas (con shorts) no creo que se aventuraran por un área poco demarcada donde se lastimaran las piernas y muslos por las ramas. Desde la ultima foto yo no encuentro cual seria la dificultad de darse la vuelta y volver por donde viniste. Quizas un accidente, que dado el caso debe tener ciertas particularidades por la manera y distancia donde se "encontrarian los hallazgos" o la participación de terceros, que de por si el sitio representa un desafio para resolver un crimen, si muy comunmente se dice que las primeras 48-72 horas son fundamentales para resolver un caso, quien en esas horas de este caso investigaba esto como un crimen? Por lo que se, nadie! Buscaban a dos personas perdidas.
Bonjour Romain, j’ai découvert la tragédie de Kris et Lisanne et donc votre chaîne également, il y peu. Mais je dois dire que cette histoire me hante, j’ai vraiment envie de savoir et j’ai vraiment essayé de regarder tout les vidéos qui traite de leur histoire. Mais difficile de ce forger une conviction sur des éléments parfois contradictoires sans y être allé. Mais je trouverais intéressant d’avoir votre avis sur la question, vous qui justement êtes allez sur place. Vous qui avez emprunté ces sentiers et filmé tout ces endroits. Quelle est votre sentiment ? Ont-elles réellement pu succomber à un simple accident perdu dans la jungle ? Auraient elles pu chuter du Pont de singe, se blesser, et se réfugier sur le rocher identifié à 11:58 par exemple ? Rocher qui ressemble a celui des photos nocturnes. Ou, maintenant que vous connaissez l’endroit, vous vous dites qu’elles ont été assassiné ? En tout cas vous vous êtes vraiment beaucoup investis pour informer les gens. C’est vraiment bien ! 👍
Bonjour, si ça vous intéresse, j'ai écris un article dans la presse panaméenne à ce sujet. Un article que je développe davantage dans une vidéo que je prévois de sortir (actuellement dans l'attente de ma voix off). Voici le lien : www.laestrella.com.pa/panama/nacional/expediciones-en-busca-de-respuestas-al-caso-de-las-holandesas-BX6770300
@@blabla20202 It must be this place that night photos was taken. The photo with two red plastic bags. Some people say that you could see cables in the background. That could be the cable bridge.
But when you see the photos you realize that the photos seemed a little further away, enough to capture the lake, the bridge and the piece of wood with the plastic bag, So I guess this wasn't the place (there's even a photo like that)
They would have been found if they were by a cable bride. The night photos were purposely cryptic nonsense designed to not show anything that made any sense.
Agreed. They were likely intercepted shortly after photo 508 and were taken and killed elsewhere, with only small body parts later transported there to be deliberately found. No other body parts or items have turned up in the decade since. Likely because the bodies were somewhere else entirely. Nobody else has ever got lost and remained lost there either before or since, nevermind two people together. If they were there, locals or rescue parties would undoubtedly have found them. Definitely third party foul play. All this lost/accident stuff is pure nonsense.
@@joaogrande8846If you followed the case, you’d know they weren’t and they were murdered. In one year almost 500 women in that area went missing. The region has a human trafficking, sex trafficking and organ trafficking problem. With money, you can buy any organ you need in Central America. An 18 year old Argentine women was found just a few miles in the woods from this exact trail with all of her vital organs removed. Panama is constantly flagged a Level 4 Do Not Visit by Travel Advisory for a reason. Tourists are always targeted, Panama is full of corruption. 3 men in Panama were arrested for abducting a tourist, graping her, and keeping her in a cabin locked away for days. She managed to escape and alerted authorities. One of the men was part of Panama’s Search and Rescue team, who was actually part of the search for the missing female tourist. On top of all that, that trail Kris and Lisanne were on, is a heavily trafficked route for organized crime. I’ve spent many years researching and following what’s going on in Panama. The same medical forensic examiner that examined Kris and Lisanne remains, found bleach and lime on the bones(speeds up decomposition), and the remains were in different stages of decomposition. Just a few years old the same medical examiner came out to a reporter and stated the two girls were definitely murdered by an Organ Trafficking ring. It’s a huge problem in that region.
Hi Romain, you really have a some great skill with the drone. It must be challenging in windy conditions to use it in this area. It's great to see the details of the very rocky and winding river. I cannot once believe the backpack miraculously floated in this, while two adult bodies were completely disintegrated, skulls, torso, etc. But one can fantasize I'm sure, like baby Moses floating in the crocodile infested River Nile. 😄 Btw Romain I was rereading the phone logs article that you had covered some time back as I was watching your video to get a sense of things between 2pm and 4:39pm. I wanted to confirm with you since I was having some difficulty understanding the phone signals that were recorded. In the phone logs you only showed some of the dBm readings, so was this because the iPhone reported the dBm signal every second or every minute in the log, and so you did not want to show every second or minute of dBm signal reading? What about the Samsung? Did it report the dBm signals every second or every minute? Thanks Romain, keep up the good work! 👍🏽
Thank you ! Well, the first time I flew over the Culebra, it was very windy and the drone was pushed toward the trees. I got more chance last year by flying the drone in the late afternoon without wind. For the bones, it's very likely that the body desintegrated before being carried by the river. Joints and cartilages decomposes and free the bones. I have witnessed decompositions in the area (animals of course) and it's very fast. For the dBm, it was the only data available in the reports. I have to check again the article and the reports to compare, but there wasn't much available for dBm and only for the iPhone.
@@Romain_C Hi Romain, thank you for confirming the dBM information Romain. I didn't know those were the only dBms you saw in the main data run-offs from the phone. I think Matt also said something similar but I could not remember. I hope you were able to test both phone models while you were in Panama, as I am very keen on learning how they behave and if you were able to replicate any of the scenarios with the same phone models. Keep up the good work Romain as it is certainly very informative.
@@Romain_C I have also few ideas how to spot the area where Lisanne and Kris got lost. The "good" thing is: we know the paths of the search team, so we can substract those areas. We also know where the remains of Kris and Lisanne were (along the Culebra river). We also know that the remains doesnt flow upstream, but downstream. And we know that the most upstream found remain was Kris jeans (nothing more upstream was found , even though probably the spot where they got lost was very likely more upstream than the first most upstream remain (Kris jeans). We also know the locations of coffee farms (so no way they were there). We also know, they couldnt get lost south of Mirador, because from there the nightlights of Boquete are clearly visible. And we also know that their remains was quiet close to El Mirador, if we consider both had 10 days of time to walk in the jungle (in that time dozends of miles can be made ... sure its the jungle and its hard to get even 5 miles a day... but both were in perfect condition the first day, and they made the El Pianista trail in record time !) ... So it seems very likely they had a reason to stay close to El Mirador, or didnt dare to go deeper into the jungle. Also the nightshots with the (Sos-sign) suggests, that at least from 8th april on they planned to stay at that one spot (when you put a SOS-sign out of paper on a stone, you doesnt do it, to leave that spot next day). A big question is: wether they were on that spot the whole time, or did they come to the spot of the nightshots . I somehow tend to believe: that they were at least close to that spot from early on (1st April), because they got the next days always a small 1bar-signal at their phones.. i think they knew and saw that there is a very weak signal, and they very likely didnt dared to lose that small glimmer of hope by going deeper into the jungle. So i assume, the spot of 8th April is quiet near to the spot where they made the first emergency calls on 1st April. That actually allows to pinpoint their position even better. Because from their behavior it seems clear: they didnt made sightseeing-photos after photo 508, which was taken around 1:58pm. Thats interesting, because before that, the biggest pause between photos was 40 minutes. Usually they made photos at least every 20-30 minutes of the hike. The fact, that they didnt made photos between 1:58pm and 4:40pm (first emergency call) means for me: 1) they got lost shortly after 2pm , 2) they tried to find their way back for hours... around 5pm it gets dark in Panama at that date of the year, so it was that time that they were sure: they cant find a way out in the dark, and need help. The reason why i think 1) , is that they didnt made any pictures after 1:58pm. I dont count 509. Whatever that photo was, i am sure, it was not important. It was maybe the first nightshot-foto which looked probably pichblack, therefore the investigator deleted it or something. If it was an important picture from the 1st April, i am sure, they would have shot more than just that one picture (their behavior was always: shooting a lot of pictures (so they did on 1st april,.. and so they did on 8th april). So i think if they were in good mood after 1:58pm , they would shot at least at 2:40pm something interesting (because they always found something to make a foto on that day). So the fact they didnt made a photo before 3pm is for me a prove: that they got lost between 2:10pm and 2:40pm ... but because it was that close to the spot of 508, they thought they can found their way back... but they didnt found it (there is a labyrinth of animal paths after El Mirador, so its quiet hard to find the right way... even locals say it needs a lot of knowledge of the area after El Mirador). Now that we know: they liked to stay as close as possible to last known positions... and we know which areas we should substract ... and we know that both probably only hiked for another 2,5 hours from their last known position (508), this means a radius of 5 km. Now.. we further know that they probably went a lot in circles, back and forth etc (so they probably werent a lot away from 508 ) , we probably could say: its not 5 km away from 508, but probably around 2,5-3 km away ... and in a direction which tends towards the Culebra river. So thats an are of around 8-9 km² , but because we can substract a lot of areas (searchteam-areas, etc) - i would say, that the area we should search is probably only around 1-2 km² I think there are still remains from Kris and Lisanne , to this day. Sure, their bones could be gone after nearly 10 years. Even their clothes could be gone. But quiet small objects of them are still there: objects out of plastic (the red plastic bag could be there).. also: earrings... While something like teeths can remain very long, even after 10 years, its possible, that the river also flushed it downstreams. But earrings have a high specific weight. Meaning: its very likely that they are still at the spot where both died (and then fall off from the skull). Metal isnt carried as easy from a river as organic material. So like i said: its very likely that if someone finds earrings, he very likely spotted the spot were both got lost. Would be a very big step to get more answers: what happened to them - at least we would exactly know: where.
@@aequivalent9761Muy buena apreciación. Considero que existe otra opción probable. Ellas llevaban un mapa en el teléfono y, una vez pasado el Mirador, se deduce que su objetivo era el Puente de Monos. Realmente, era lo único para ver allí. Según algunos verificaciones in situ, se determinó que caminaban realmente rápido. Los habitantes de la zona consideran que les dio tiempo a llegar al Puente. En la última foto diurna, se ve a Kris bastante transpirada. Por lo tanto, pudieron decidir no detenerse ni realizar más fotografías hasta llegar allí. Difícil, pero posible. Ellas dudo mucho que controlaran el tema de las horas de luz, orientación y demás. Entonces, una vez llegaron al puente, una de ellas se cayó y la otra chica realizó la primera llamada de emergencia.
@@reborn3530 I used google translator to translate your comment. I hope i didnt misunderstood you. And i hope you also understand my answer. I doubt that they wanted to go to the monkey bridge. I agree with you that they had a map on their smartphone (in fact i know they did, because i gathered the cellphone data of Lisanne and Kris). Lisanne was the one, who looked on El Mirador on her phone into google maps. Now: How do i know, that they didnt went to the monkey bridge ? Answer: google map (even to this day (2023) doesnt show the monkey bridges of the area. It doesnt even show the trails around El Mirador. Google map (used by Lisanne) was very vague.. espescially in 2014. So why did Lisanne used google map in El Mirador in the first place ? I am quiet sure: it was simply for curiosity... looking wether there are new destinations nearby. She didnt found any new destinations, therefore she didnt looked again to it. If she would found a new destination in google map, she would have had looked more often into google map during the hike. But she didnt. So i am quiet sure: after El Mirador Lisanne simply decided to go in ''adventure mode'' with Kris. I am quiet sure, this was Lisannes idea... because Kris in the whole 10 days was much more careful. Her mood also didnt seem as happy as before El Mirador. I think she was more and more concerned when she got deeper and deeper in the jungle. Thats also the reason : why Kris made her first emergency call, and not Lisanne. And its also the reason, why Kris made it 10 minutes earlier than Lisanne. If there is really an emergency, they would make the calls the same minute. But Lisanne waited for 10 minutes more than Kris to make her emergency call. In my opinion Lisanne simply didnt wanted to believe that the situation is severe, while Kris was much more concerned. Another point of you is: you doubt that they controlled the time-window when to get back .. how many light of the day they have left. While its true that google maps, etc doesnt say anything about it, Lisanne picked the hike on the internet a day before. Meaning: she researched it a day before. There are websites which say exactly: how long that hike is, and at which time-window the hike should start etc ... That all fits to the fact: when they started the hike... and to their condition, and experience. The hike is considered as easy and fast (espescially back then), and its recommended to start around 10-12 am, to get back at afternoon. That all fits perfect how the girls started the hike. So i am quiet sure, they knew about the timewindow. And that also fits perfect to the first emergency call. Also they dont even need to know about the timewindow. When around 5 pm the sun gets low, they knew: they have not enough light to see in the dense jungle. And that they dont made it back in time - therefore the emergency call was necessary. There is a good reason to think: that they didnt knew exactly where they want to heading after El Mirador (as i said: they simply went into adventure mode). But its also possible that one day prior, Lisanne also saw that past El Mirador there are Coffee plantages from the indios. So its possible that they wanted to find it. I think, that they didnt make it past the river of image 508. Because very near after that (20-30 minutes away) there are the paddocks. And the paddocks is a very pretty view, which are worth to make fotos there! I am very sure: that if they reached the paddocks, they would have taken pictures, but they didnt. So the only conclusion for me is: they didnt reached the paddocks.. which means: they left the track at the river of the image 508. If i have to guess, they tried to go downstream of the river (maybe to find the coffee plantages - but i dont know). I am quiet sure, they made the wrong decision at the river. Maybe because they thought: they would find the conjunction between river and the path again when they go backwards. But they didnt find that conjunction again. This theory could be supported by the fact that on the later days they once got a one-bar-signal with the smartphone. You know: if you go that river all the way up upstream, you get to a place which are not to far from El Mirador itself (around half of an hour of hike to El Mirador). On El Mirador itself there is 3 bar signal. And the next day (2nd april) Kris had 1 bar signal for a moment - so it seems for me, they went all the way up upstreams the image508-river until the river dissapears (source). After that they tried to go downstream again, but they didnt found the conjunction for some reason. I also think that they had to be all the next 8 days next to that river, because Kris Jeans (the first remains downstream the Culebra-River) was found very next to the conjunction between river-508 and the culebra-river (around 500 meters away from that conjunction). All the other remains (including the back pack) was washed down the culebra-river and was found much more downstreams. This all suggests me, that Lisanne and Kris very much stayed nearby the 508-river all the next 8 days. Therefore i also strongly believe that the spot of the nightshots of 8th april have to be downstream the 508 river (before it mets with the Culebra-River). Dont get me wrong: no one (me included) knows what happened after image 508. This means: i cant exclude your monkey-bridge-theory with certainity. So maybe your monkey-bridge-theory is right. It could be even right, if google maps dont show the monkey bridge. Because they could reached the monkey bridges nevertheless. So yes : the monkey-bridge-theory is definetely also a possibility. I only think that it has less probability than my theory above. But you know: i am also only speculating. Unfortunately only Lisanne and Kris knew for sure: where they went.
When do you upload the video( Nr.5 The path after the mirador )where you walk to the first cable bridge? Sorry I asked again, but your videos are so exited and they stoped after the video( Nr. 4 path after the mirador) 😊
Thank you ! I know it has been a long time since part 4 but let's say the next part will come in may. I will be home at that point and not busy over a project.
Why the girls did not stayed at the open field close to the monkey bridge? They would be easily spotted from air rescuers... I don't think they ended close to the monkey bridge... A drone footage more close to the river banks [at lower altitude] would be very interesting... To show river margins and rocks more closely...
I also strongly assume, that they missed the paddocks. And the paddocks were quiet near to the photo 508 ... maybe 500 meters or so. Meaning: i strongly assume, that 1) they got lost before the paddocks (very likely in my opinion), or 2) an accident happend before they reached the paddocks , and therefore they were stuck (not very likely, because the paddocks are maybe half of an hour from 508 ... but Lisanne and Kris waited 3 hours after image 508, to make their first emergency call.. if they had an accident before the paddocks, they would have made the emergeny call much more sooner). So i think they hiked around 3 hours after image 508, desperately find their way back..and after it began to get dark, they knew for sure, they would not made it in the dark back, and aknowledged that they got lost - therefore they made a emergency call. Kris even tried to make that call 12 minutes sooner than Lisanne, which in my opinion is a hint, that Lisanne wanted to believe longer, that they found their way out,.. but then even Lisanne made the call.
@@aequivalent9761 doesn t make sense have you seen. the paddock ? you can see that you are crossing another mountain. So they arrive at paddock around 14pm they know that they need at least 3hours to go back to boqueta and for you they would have wanted to go for an another 3 hours hike so they will make 6 hours to go back to boqueta. What I think happend is that they were assault, taken out of the main path raped and beaten. Once they woke up they didn t manage to find their way home and went deeper and deeper in the jungle.
About this new narrative that emerged, it would have been very interesting if you had filmed a little more, from the Mirador and making the drone fly towards the city of Boquete, or towards this place called Tree Trek. This secret trail called "Pata de Macho" can perhaps be seen from above by a drone. In the previous video, when you zoom in at 10min11s: I believe the location of the night shots is some kind of depression like that, with the canopy of trees blocking the view of the rocks below. This place would be perfect to try to go down there and observe. In these mountains, there are several such places.
There is a "trail" linking Tree Trek to El Pianista, however it's mostly covered by vegetation (to the point we can't even call it a trail). So it's not possible to see it from the drone. For the np location, I have another location I'm currently investigating.
@@Romain_C If this "trail" cannot be seen by a drone, then someone needs to go personally to analyze this little-used path called "Paw of Macho". The center of the depression that is at 10min11s in the previous video, is close to the paddock area, more specifically towards your right shoulder when you are controlling the drone in the video "The Paddock", at 10min7s (if you are the blue face). It seems to be very close to the trail that took you to the paddock. Se essa "trilha" não pode ser vista por um drone, então é necessário alguém ir pessoalmente para analisar esse caminho pouco utilizado chamado de "Pata de Macho". O centro da depressão que fica aos 10min11s no vídeo anterior, fica próximo a área do paddock, mais especificamente na direção do seu ombro direito no momento em que você está controlando o drone no vídeo "The Paddock", aos 10min7s(se você for o cara de azul). Parece ser bem próximo a trilha que levou você até o paddock.
@@eliaslima5506 El interrogante entonces es como era el estado del sendero "pata de macho" en abril del 2014? Son 9 años ya, tiempo a tomar en cuenta.
@@carlosbrizuela6521 Acreditando que alguns elementos da narrativa sejam verdadeiros, como o carro vermelho levando os sequestradores até a parte montanhosa da trilha, as garotas sendo forçadas a andar por essa trilha secreta etc. Seria interessante verificar, se esse caminho chamado "Pata de Macho", se liga aquela estrada que continua mais acima, depois do início da parte montanhosa da trilha do pianista. Se encontrarem algo assim, isso abriria possibilidade para o uso de um carro e desse caminho secreto, para retirar as garotas sem que muitas possíveis testemunhas pudessem ver. A narrativa atribuída aquela testemunha do início da trilha, que disse ter visto as garotas dentro do carro vermelho voltando pela trilha, me parece factível. Mas seja qual for a narrativa verdadeira, o lugar das fotos noturnas precisa ser encontrado. Se for encontrado, muitas narrativas falsas sobre elas terem sofrido um acidente, ou terem se perdido, na minha opinião, vão cair de vez! Sobrando somente a narrativa do homicídio para ser verificada.
@@eliaslima5506 Es que es totalmente factible la existencia de caminos alternos en estas zonas rurales, de por si no se discute tanto su existencia sino su condición para ser transitado. Estas áreas pueden encontrarse zonas que solo alguien familiarizado puede transitar y es evidente porque vemos diferentes áreas con pastizales para animales, en este video al minuto 24:28 hay 5 figuras de color negro, supongo que son animales como vacas. Es decir no muy lejos debe estar alguien al pendiente de ellas e incluso puede estar cerca pero tu no te das cuenta por la vegetación alrededor. Siempre se quiere saber los detalles precisos, es lógico, pero creo que primero hay que estudiar la factibilidad de las diferentes teorías. A mi me llama la atención como déspues de varios videos del área geográfica, el sendero en si, las quebradas/riachuelos 1,2,3 (que estrictamente hablando No son rios), el área del potrero, el río culebra y el puente de monos; en los comentarios varios no captan que hay evidentes inconsistencias en las teorías oficiales principalmente la Panameña; fijate hablamos del potrero, de los puentes de monos, del rio culebra, de Alto Romero pero pasan por alto algo que esta mucho antes y no hay fotográfias de el como es: la 3era quebrada con su minicascada visible de una vez en el sendero! Las fotos se detienen hasta donde sabemos en 507 y 508 donde Kris esta atravesando la quebrada/riachuelo 1 (cosa a tener en cuenta pues la intención inicial es seguir el sendero no caminar dentro del riachuelo), luego esta este archivo esfumado 509. Entonces porque no hay fotos de la quebrada 3? Más si algunos consideran que las chicas buscaban una cascada, pero no fotografían? Si algo le paso a la camara por qué seguirian adentrandose más y no se devuelven? No es extraño un caso de perderse donde al parecer se camina solo hacia al norte? Otra cosa es que muchos no tienen en cuenta este detalle poco mencionado: Los puentes de monos NO son una atracción túristica, es una necesidad para los nativos del área para poder cruzar los rios en epoca de lluvias. Han determinado que desde la foto 508 hasta el 1er puente de mono se tarda 3 horas de caminata aproximadamente, es algo totalmente lógico pensar por que las chicas caminarian hacia allí ya llegando a final de la tarde? Se van quedar allí sin equipo para acampar? Que es lo que les impidio devolverse por el mismo sitio por donde llegaron? De verdad que roza lo absurdo pensar en perderse solo siguiendo el sendero!!! Hay un elemento cultural importante aca en la forma de pensar mientras que en las plataformas de habla inglésa hay una variedad de opiniones, inclinandose más de un lado u otro, en las de habla hispana es muy evidente como se inclina por el juego sucio. Y no se trata de querer ver conspiraciones es que hay evidentes inconsistencias en estas "teorías oficiales". La teoría del NFI (Instituto forense Neerlándes) indica un accidente desde el sendero de regreso al mirador; a ellos le parecio poco probable perderse, un accidente en puente monos o un crimen. Sin embargo la ubicación y varios detalles no son precisos. Es muy extraño que el short de Kris se encuentre déspues del 1er puente de mono pero antes del 2do puente de monos (es decir entonces en un sitio aledaño al sendero?), sin rastro biologico alguno. La mitad de su pelvis (Desarticulada del sacro y el púbis, NO fracturada) en un trayecto más al norte del rio culebra y la mochila mucho más al norte. Creo que es evidente dado la geografía rocosa e irregular y el poco caudal de agua que el rio culebra no es un sitio donde un objeto puede viajar varios Km a tráves de el sin pronto quedar detenido en alguna de las miles de rocas de todos los tamaños que vemos en el video. Hay un problema de no correlacionar la evidencia fotográfica, el área geográfica con la teoría formulada; sin involucrar el juego sucio o algún grado de manipulación. La ubicación de las fotos nocturnas es relevante porque dado un accidente exige tener cierta concordancia geográfica. Fijate las numerosas banderas rojas y no hemos tocado las llamadas del 1er día de desaparición, la ausencia de material audiovisual claro en los días de desaparición, las particularidades en la fotos nocturnas, el estado de la mochila y su contenido et etc etc...
This river is very steep and rocky, probably some deep pools but mostly shallows. The monkey bridges are on a very clear trail. You’re not lost if you’re crossing one.
The trail is relatively simple and straightforward. Nobody else has ever got lost and remained lost there either before or since, nevermind two people together.
@@lyndoncmp5751sources/evidence for your confident assertion? Also, they didn't get lost on the trail, Lisanne and Kris got lost after they chose to hike off trail.
Creo que fue una mordedura de serpiente con Kris. esto dejó a lisanne incapaz de abandonar a su amiga y desesperada, ya que se encontraban en un lugar de difícil acceso. obligando a un amigo a buscar una señal en el bosque. A medida que pasan los días Kris muere, Lisanne se vuelve débil y debilitada, pasando la mayor parte del tiempo acostada debido a la debilidad alimentaria con el frío, muriendo.Las fotos tomadas en la noche eran una forma de llamar la atención si alguien había estado mirando con el levantamiento. del agua su cuerpo fue llevado.
I worked in several tropical forests. What can I say about snake bites is: where there are stones there are serpents... So. Close to small streams, top of mountains. Always one can expect snakes present in such places.
12:45 could that be the location they made the night pictures? Look at the stones, it could fit i think. It is also also very near to the bridge. They did fall and didn't make it far anymore, so they stayed there.
Perhaps the drone does pass over the location of the night photos at some point but I don't think it would be visible in the video as the night photos show there is considerable high overhanging tree cover at the location (see the last photo 609 particularly). So I would suggest the location could be narrowed down to areas of the river that are hidden by trees in the video.
One thing that struck me is that there seems no easy way to get yourself into that river channel. I don't believe one of them fell from the bridge as they would still be down there and within sight of it. And the banks of the channel don't seem to allow any easy access either...
@davidmullen6011 And they didn't use the bras as an injury aid (bandage, strapping or padding). Surely if there was an accident they would have used the bras to try and aid any injury. They didnt have a first aid kit. The bras would have been useful to aid an injury, even as just padding for protection. The bras were found in the backpack. Unused for an accident. They were taken and killed by a third party. It's blindingly obvious.
Did you get any footage of the main river? It would be interesting to see the area where the 508 stream joins with it, and also the other stream from the paddocks that joins it just before the "monkey bridge river"..
I got footage of most rivers, and they should normally be published this year after I publish my articles/video. For the moment I keep these footages for research purposes. When you say main river, what do you mean by that ? Because the Culebra is the main river.
@@Romain_C Oh that's great! By "main river" I mean the one that the monkey bridge river, and the 508 stream, run into. There are a few interesting wide areas between these spots.
I dont think that they fotos was make on 1 of the big/middel-rivers you see a slope or a overhang(on the pics)... and thats nowhere close to the big rivers... (the edge are everywhere smooth)... i guess peopel should fly the site-arms-rivers/the small ones.. looking for the Y tree (in pics he was stand alone very striking..) and the boulder with that special shape
@@kachingaaa i think it's water between stones and something is visible inside, when the camera tries to focus on it u can see the colorplay , something white is lighting . I made a screenshot and improved the quality and you can definitely see some object there. or water and small stones created a false vision
@@Romain_C from 8.34 , the tree covers it and then the camera tries to focus on it , try to stop the video on 8:37 and then 8:38 . thank you for your work
No creo que se perfieron ni tampoco un acc8dente yo esperaria donde me pudieran encontrar no me meteria en ese laberinto y menos en la noche no creo que fueran tan brutas y menos con esa ropa lasnfotos las pudo tomar cuarquiera las llamadas tambien sabian que hay no avia señar conovian el sitio. Y por que todosnlos huesos encontrados tan dispersos algo paso la mano humana pobres
Saludos desde Boquete. No se si lo sabe. Pero en este caso ya no hay ningún misterio ya que se sabe quienes fueron los asesinos y como hicieron todo. Lamentablemente este caso esta cerrado y quien sabe si lo reabran ojalá que si se reabra y los asesinos paguen por ese crimen.
@@Romain_C сколько времени занимает поход от места последнего фото возле ручья до моста, около которого они, предположительно, сделали ночные фото? Если идти не по тропе, а около реки. Я не могу поверить, что они несколько дней просидели около моста, и их никто не увидел. Вы общались с местными жителями? Какое их мнение о случившемся?
A lot of the locals are sure it was third party foul play involvement, with even certain named people cited. One mother even insists her son confessed to being involved before he was bumped off himself.
Personnellement, je penche d’avantage pour la théorie de l’égarement dans la jungle plutôt qu’un accident sur un monkey bridge...déjà, la hauteur du pont n’est pas démentielle et il y a de nombreux autochtones qui empruntent ces ponts....une jambe cassée tue rarement deux jeunes !....il aurait suffit d’attendre sur place que l’un deux passe par là....je n’y crois pas à cette version de l’accident....
Hi @Romain C been looking for a email address to contact you but couldn’t find any. May I use a couple of screen shots in a YT video? I will give you credit. 🥰 thanks so much!
@@Romain_C you did an amazing job with the drones and showing people how it looks. Did you see any steep cliffs along the trail you can slip and fall down into the river, maybe hit a rock that can cause severe injuries like a broken foot or pelvis?
I found and excelent youtube channel called "Beast Runners". It's about rescue of hikers in Taiwan. I watched the video "Survival Secrets of lost hiker" The advice that the rescuer wrote to all lost hikers was: "never try creeks, there will be always waterfalls..." That made me think about the possibilities of K & L got stuck near a small waterfall, possible injured... Anyway. Lots of open mind info in such rescuers channels... Lost people soon got injured and disoriented. It seems a pattern in the videos of rescue I watched.
I see the v-shaped tree. One of the girls took a photo of two red plastic bags on a stone. I found that stone. Its at the bottom part in the middle at 12:23
Why dond t see pictures of the girls el pianista pad why do see pictures of the girls el sendero el pianista land why thinking maby the girls took a away other el pianista
Wow that is amazing! Thank you so much. This 1st cable bridge looks too big with those steps, on the night time photo’s it’s more a very small line. I think the 3rd bridge looks more like it.
@@user-yi5mv2qe8u Ok that changes things. Do you think this is the night time photo location? I thought the shorts of one of the girls was found between 1st and 3rd cable crossing so could be possible I guess?
I don't think so. Neither the 1rst and the 2nd monkey bridge fits with the angles of the night pictures. Kris' short was found near the 2nd monkey bridge, stuck between a rock and a tree. So most likely carried up to that place.
