Don't forget the freeze chance. On top of all the other hoops you have to jump through to answer this thing, it also has a 10% to effectively OHKO one of your mons every time it clicks an ice move, and if your Slowking or Iron Crown gets frozen, you basically lose on the spot
Yup, my iron crown did get frozen on turn 1, I won the game with lokix tho, but still I just happened to have a check cuz it wasn't the sub/protect variant, else it'd be absolutely over from turn 1
I've heard several people around the 1600-1800 elo range say that if you ban Kyurem, Gliscor will become too strong. My response to that? Ban Gliscor afterwards if it proves to be too strong. As someone who has experience with making important ban decisions as I quite literally co-lead an OM and have banned multiple pokemon, broken checks broken is NEVER a good fallacy. I'll give an example from my own experiences. This was before I became co-leader, but in gen 8 pokebilities, Conkeldurr was incredibly broken. Yes, it was slow, but its abilities, stats, and most importantly, coverage, made it way too strong for the tier to where it effectively forced a KO every time it came out. The only thing that avoided a 2HKO was Weezing, which only did so by virtue of shutting down Conk's abilities because of Neutralizing Gas. Don't get me wrong, both of the Weezings were really good in that meta even after all bans were done, but if one pokemon is forced on every team to check a threat, the mon that the single pokemon is checking should easily be banned. People have argued a few different pokemon, so let's see what they do. You have a PhysDef Hippowdon? Ice Punch. You have a Clefable? Poison Jab. You have a Buzzwole? Fire Punch. You have a Reuniclus? Knock Off. You have a Corviknight? Thunder Punch. And none of these are mandatory. If Conk wanted, it could just run Facade to not require as much coverage. So what about wearing it down over time? Well, that's not happening. It resists Rocks, enjoys a power boost from status, AND heals all of it off with a boosted Drain Punch (because all abilities at once), so slowly wearing it down isn't an option. You need the immediate threat. That is where Kyurem is so similar. Not saying it can't get worn down, but it's real checks and counters only truly do so to one or two sets, and if they run into another Kyurem set, they're done for. It restricts and strangles the metagame so mucu to the point where the majority of it revolves around Kyurem, especially now that Gouge is gone
kyurem's been reverse powercrept where it went from having its base and even one of its upgraded forms both end up in OU in their first gen, then Kyurem-Black got sent to ubers by SwSh im pretty sure?, and now Kyurem-Bald might end up in ubers too. Kyurem-White might finally end up with its brothers in one tier
As someone with the opinion that having functional defensive cores that might encourage stall is unhealthy and damaging to not only the metagame, but also to players mental health. Why would you deny someone who has worked so hard to earn that dragon dance his just desserts? Games that last more than three minutes cannot satisfy the cravings for greater damage and destruction, and therefore our glorious ice dragon stays. Also bring back Chi-yu.
I am leaning towards hating Kyurem more and more even though I think offense is the best playstyle in general, whenever I try to slowdown I feel like I am always 1 Kyurem set away from losing which has been straying me away from balance lately. Even offense struggles a bit with swapping into kyurem if u guessed wrong on a set, I would happily take part in the suspect test for the Mon as I think last gen it was making the tier so unfun, but this gen the tier is still playable but I think kyurem is providing more net negatives than positives.
ah yes, my favourite tf2 videos, zesty jumpluff: why tera blast should be NERFED shaynic: we played SV OU with NO tera blast feebasonastick gaming: what exactly is wrong with tera blast? - a balance discussion
Worst feeling in the world is switching glowking in on a DD, it’s why I’m running zamazenta now bc idk of anything else that can actually deal with either set
I genuinely think rm is more ban-worthy, having the same speed as cinder and almost the same attack as lando-T. Plus Proto-Drive Pokémon are naturally broken. Free life orb and free choice scarf? The only downside is that you can only really use it at its true power once since unless you have many proto-drive Pokémon you don’t wanna be running Tork-urchin. Chapter 1: stat spread Its stats are genuinely great and it almost has the same base stat total as a pseudo (which is pretty good lol) It has respectable special bulk with great speed, being 119. It also doesn’t not hit hard, in fact, it’s quite the opposite. Roaring moon has an intense 139 attack. And if you know anything about numbers, that’s higher than kyurem, kingambit, great tusk, and even zama. The only stat which is truly lacking is its special attack. But like… no one is using the 4 special moves roaring moon gets over dragon dance sweeping. Chapter 2: types / move pool These will go together as I go on. But being a dark/dragon type has intense benefits, your immune to both prankster AND psychic type moves. Which is helpful in both doubles and singles. Plus since it’s a physical dark type it gets knock off, a very powerful tool in this meta. Knock off can be used both defensively and offensively, since it can be used as a strong dark type stab and also knock off any helpful tools for the foe. This includes tools like the choice items, leftovers/black sludge, and even rocky helmet if you are tired of chip damage. It also gets access to dragon dance making it a serious sweeper of you predict it wrongly. Chapter 3: ability This is gonna be quick since I’ll just be explaining it but proto and drive are both broken. They are basically free life orbs or a free choice scarf. The singular downside is that they are one time use but that can be played around by running torkoal, pinchurchin, or even ninetales. Ending this now, I just think roaring moon should be banned over kyurem.
Dragon: breaks the game. Anyone who plays DnD/has ever read any fantasy ever: knows that dragons break the game because of how they exist. Nerds: surprised pikachu face.
I couldn't agree more. This pokemon is extremely toxic, should've been banned the first time around, but now with all the set variety we're seeing it deserves a ban even more.
@@alexcameron2880would rather ban a bunch of mons than having broken ones running around tbh. Also the ones that are mentioned like Waterpon and Gliscor are also banworthy mons, so there’s that
@@alexcameron2880 terrible argument. The cycle ends when the broken pokemon are gone. This has happened in literally so many tiers. This "unending cycle" stuff is completely theoretical and never actually happens. Look at gen 8. What became broken? Nothing. We just got rid of all the broken mons
I stopped following SV OU a while back, so when I saw this recommendation, I was shocked. Not because someone wants Kyurem suspect tested but because APPARENTLY it's not been done yet ? Hum, after having played Gen 8 with Kyurem, I really thought it would have quickly become extremely problematic especially with Tera on its side to make it even less predictable/wallable and would already have caught the eyes of people by now, but I guess the tier is so broken it's slipped through people's minds so far ? Damn, this gen is truly a mess if something like that can cruise through lmao
One of the small ways Megas are a good mechanic and Tera is a terrible one is that if stuff like Roost Mega Scizor were in the game (and if you didn't have to worry about Kyurem flipping Tera into something like Fire), it could wall all sets forever. Though even just having stuff like Mega Ttar or other megas as checks would help a lot as well. God, I hate the way gen 9 changed the game.
i think it probably deserves a closer look at some point; it has some really dubious dynamics with teambuilding trends since if you’re not defensively prepared for it in any way, you’re cooked. though counterplay is definitely far more accessible so it is more borderline imo
Kyurem has already been suspected for these reasons and found not broken by the qualified playerbase, if the only thing that changed in the meta and about kyurem in the past six months is that it now runs substitute + protect instead of the other dozen sets it could run I don't think that's enough reason for another suspect already.
Because Gambit is balanced and has been since DLC 2 dropped. It's good because of it's defensive utility now rather than being offensively busted. If you're still getting reverse swept by Gambit I'm sorry but you just suck at teambuilding.
@@greattitan371 the problem is that gambit allows offense to be slotted on the end of defensive core without regard to how it fits, also while not busted being forced to play rock paper scissors at the end of a game is unhealthy.
@@biscuitboi3561 You don't need to play rock paper scissor though. The metagame has adapted and is better prepared to beat Gambit. Skarm, Zama, Tusk, Lando, Corv, Encore Prima, Val, Samurott and Ogerpon, Scarf Trick Meow and Dengo, Anything with Sub, Wisp Pult and Darkrai. Even after Gambit teras you can still use most of these options. These are not uncommon or niche mons in the tier either. A good team will always have the tools to deal with Gambit.
because zamazenta is a generally positive presence in the metagame, and counterplay is just present and consistent enough to not make it egregious to check in the same vein as kyurem
@@ausma9350 the mere existence of Zamazenta basically forces you to have a Moonblast/Dazzling Gleam/Psychic user on your team, since nobody runs Air Slash, and whereas most defensive Pokemon are kept in check by their low speed or attack, Zamazenta has neither of them, which allows it to become unstoppable once your team’s special attackers have been removed, not even status or hitting it SE can reliably stop it because it has enough bulk to have non-negligible odds of powering through and the coverage options to beat all of its checks. Kyruem’s counterplay is to just be faster and hit it SE or status it.
@@thepatriot1984 Thing is zama gets easily walled and dealt with things like moltres, dozo and even slowking galar, so its definitely not unbeatable. I could see zama being more of a problem for a hyper-offense player, but seeing as offense right now is as strong as it is I don't think it is a priority in suspecting it over things like kyurem or wogerpon, which have a stronger role in negatively impacting the tier.
@@souxismprophet Moltres gets nuked by Stone Edge and Glowking dies to a Crunch or two, both of which are common attacking options, and Dozo can actually get out-walled by using Rest turns to set an Iron Defense. Corviknight and Skarmory have the best matchups against it followed by Toxapex and Dozo, but when the only things that have reliably good matchups are stallmons that’s a sign that it needs a suspect test. Ironically enough, Zamazenta deals with Kyurem well with CC and Stone Edge or Heavy Slam.
@@thepatriot1984 Despite stone edge being pretty rare, zama still has to predict the moltres switch while moltres still taking 2 hits to KO and threatening with a high chance to burn the zama, which would then neutralise zamas offensive power for good. Any other possible zama sets moltres can deal with alot easier. Glowking can take a crunch pretty well at around 40 to 47% dmg, and can force either a toxic or defensive tera on the zama. I gotta admit though that substitute zama sets are much harder for glowking to deal with, but even then you still have glowking as a free pivot for you to bring your breaker safely into zama. Dozo deals with zama easily, and in the case in which zama has rest you get free turns to switch in something else while zama is still asleep. To be honest corviknight and skarmory aren't the best at dealing with zama as they run at risk at being setup fodder for tera ghost zama set variants.
Level 100 Shedinja dominates everyone else who need to drop to single digit levels to even get in, and now every team either needs a sand stream/snow warning + hope that Shedinja doesn't have safety goggles, a focus sash ghost, or gamble on either trading with flame body, or a berry juice + sturdy gambling on 2 hit fury swipes.
On one hand I agree, on the other hand the sheer amount of bans have been a real problem for gen 9. Every pokemon that's even a littlebit overpowered (usually due to tera) gets suspected and banned, and as a result the few threats they were checking go on a rampage until they get banned and the cycle repeats. It's the gen 2 snorlax problem, but with volcarona and chien-pao, except that after banning them they don't get used up in ubers.
Agree expect for the gen2 comparison. Tier gets straight up worse with lax gone. Hard to argue the tier is worse without chien and the goldfish running around making non hyper offense play styles untouched
@@Snagavitch I mean, remember when gliscor was banned to ubers because ou banned every decent special attacker with ice type coverage so it had no counter? Chien and volc were just examples, and I do thing pao is ok in ubers, but a lot of the gen nine bans were done without regard for what the banned pokemon were checking.
@@IGSA101you are completely wrong in this regard. High usage doesn’t mean a mon is bad enough to be banned. Chien Pao didn’t have high usage but it was unhealthy af and needed to be addressed. Gen 2 Snorlax, on the other hand, is extremely important in a generation where everyone runs max bulk and leftovers. It can make the game much more dynamic. You don’t see that with Chien Pao
@@blueskyalchemist623 I didn't mention usage in regards to the reason they were banned. And my comparison to lax was about the domino effect that banning has lead to in gen nine.
@@IGSA101 the difference is that without Lax, gen 2 is a much worse metagame. But without all the mons we have banned, the metagame is *at least* healthier. The two things you mentioned are both suspect worthy ngl. Gliscor was banned in DLC1, and Waterpon has always been an uproar of the tier because of how good its movepool and offensive traits are.
Its not "countering" Hoopa-U practically near hard counters stall but nobody cares. Its just what Kyurem forces others to do and play around to an unplayable extent which makes it unhealthy
@@silverjay2240 the growth of a stronger pokemon can get other weaker lower tier mons to rise up in usage, kyurem is countered rather easily, its speed is mid, its defenses arent great. Scizor could be up on ou if kyurem gets good and many other mons could. Im just tired of smogon banning good wall breakers and just end up being trash there
this is a common misconception; wallbreakers like this tend to actually encourage stall because more often than not, the best way to deal with a wallbreaker is to have so many dedicated reinforcements that they can’t break past you regardless of what you have. kyurem is a bit unique because its sets kind of transcend this, but my general point is that removing wallbreakers does not typically aid stall.
@@DarrellKareem-sz4cl yeah. Those smogoners always ruin the meta by banning all the wallbreakers and letting them languish in ubers without niches. I say we drop annihilape and chi-yu back to OU, and let them gain their original niches. While we're at it, bring back shed tail. Give cyclizar and sceptile newfound life in this powercrept meta. Who cares if it's broken? Pult can answer all of these guys. Besides, i'm sure a whole slew of lower tiers can find new niches thanks to them. But it's too bad smogon only focuses on what they lose to...
@@Gold_Gamer_100 Yea, let's drop calyrex shadow while we're at it, surely it will also benefit the tier by allowing lower tier pokemon to have a niche at countering it.
