I think that Miki judges Kozue harsher than someome with an actually twisted vision of intimacy like Nanami or Saionji not only because he can't see sex as an intimate action, but because Kozue is his twin. "Someone like me, who is and is not me, who has wandered into the world I'm scared to go on my own. And she is wayward. And she's cruel. And she's having fun. Why can't I have fun too? Is fun enough to toss aside my kindness, the kindness that can only exist whitin the egg? But, if she is so free outside of the shell... Why does she protect the forlorn nest?" Is like incest, but in the mind! You know, fun stuff! But seriously, the moment when someone understand what adults say "you are innocent" is the exact moment when said innocence is lost. Miki should know that passing a judgement of anyone, specially Kozue, is irrefutable evidence that he is not inocent at all.
*My biggest problem with this video is how this doesn't address the reason miki is protective of kozue; kozue is dating guys A LOT older than her. BOTH TWINS ARE 13! Kozue is dating guys in highschool and even goes on a wild night out with akio who is a full blown adult! This is insanely dangerous and shouldn't be encouraged regardless of gender!* I've said it before I'll say it again: morality isn't black and white. I don't really hate either one but I don't think that Miki should be judged or condemned for wanting to retain something pure in his life. So what exactly is pure? Well, how about the joy he feels when he plays the piano? What is impure? Well... How about the abuse Anthy is constantly subjected to. Miki is young and learning to navigate a world he doesn't understand. He's more hesitant and unsure. While his sister isn't afraid to go in head first. In fact it's probably more accurate to say she borders on fearless & reckless. Again, dating guys WAY TOO OLD FOR HER! Neither twin is wrong but how we respond to it can be. Miki trying to project his ideas onto Anthy without getting to know her is... Sadly the same as Gaston projecting his fantasy onto Belle. Thankfully though Miki doesn't abuse Anthy, doesn't mistreat chuchu, or break/ruin/damage her things. Kozue isn't wrong for embracing her sexuality and having hookups. (Though if she does it without consent that's no longer sex, that's rape!) As long as her hookups are consensual, they both are of age, and no one gets hurt? I don't see a problem with it. The only real negative thing about her is she knows it bothers him and continuously taunts him over it. that and she goes on a date with guys WAY TOO OLD FOR HER LIKE AKIO & having romantic feelings for miki. Those two are the only real deal breakers I can think of. (seriously, she, wakaba, anthy, and utena are too fucking young for him! Its also confirmed she's got a romantic thing for miki) But with all the toxic people around him and very few that aren't? It's easy to see why he'd want to hold on to that tiny shard of innocence as long as he can. What do I mean when I say toxic? Toga, Saionji, The chairman, Shiori, and Ruka. These people just aren't worth pleasing so while I can't condemn kozue for embracing her sexuality? I think it's equally important to not condemn Miki for wanting to be a decent guy who values purity. What I take a little issue with is his projection of ideas onto someone without getting to know them but thankfully? This hasn't crossed into dangerously creepy territory.
@@snailart9214 My problem is how kozue is 13 and dating guys in highschool and has a wild night out with akio. Its pretty clear that's what miki's biggest problem with her.
This was a great analysis, although I'm not sure I agree everything. In season 2, "The world as viewed from Kozue" Kozue outright states in the elevator that she dates bad people on purpose to hurt Miki and so he'll only think of her. While it's definitely true that Miki longs to return to innocence and definitely views Kozue as the "whore" (possibly resenting her for her sexual activity because she used to be his "Madonna" when they were children), she's not necessarily an innocent victim in this. Again, she outright states that she sleeps around on purpose so Miki will judge her for it so she can monopolize his attention. I think she knows he judges her for her actions.
this was a great video, but one thing that bothers me is your phrasing of anthy being "involved in" rather than "a victim of" an incestuous relationship. i think theres very good reason to believe that even if it were through rape rather than willful involvement, it would taint miki's view of anthy, and maybe even cause disdain. so theres no reason to frame it as something shes consensually and enthusiastically taking part in
Don't simplify Anthy. We need to adress all her flaws in order to let her carve her own path towards Utena in the outside world. The messed up part is that Anthy feels awful, but she _is_ enthusiat about her relationship with Akio. She is so acustomed to her victim role, the idea of her own worthlessness, that she tortures anyone around her, either lesser-in-her-eyes like Nanami, stupid-foreign-menaces like Kanae, or someone-who-truly-loves-me Utena. Akio beat her up so many times that she is embracing it, for, well, "one sword impaling me that somehow makes me feel good is far better than the others doing the exact same thing". The messed up part about abuse is that it messes you up. Abuse is just poison that comes and festers in your skin until it reaches your mind. Don't simplify Anthy, because we can't summarize that kind of anguish. If we do, we are just like Akio, Utena and Miki, refusing to see, ignorant of, or imposers of her own feelings.
Yeah that one part bugged me because it implies she’s giving consent and isn’t against this when the truth is she’s a victim of sexual abuse. Now that I think about it? If miki did know this and continued to think the way he does? That would make his projection mindset worse than Gaston, depending on how he reacts. Yikes. I’m actually really glad he doesn’t know.
Heliopath That and while she did sleep with brother in thier past lives? It’s clear neither one were ok with it. Yes her intention was to keep her brother from dying because of his wounds but that doesn’t make it ok. Especially seeing it’s implied that he didn’t give consent. That may have been once but it doesn’t change things. She’s still the one time abuser and consistent victim on the mater. Yikes
@@SirEriol it doesnt matter if shes "enthusiastic about her relationship with akio" bc shes underage and he physically forces her to sleep with him.. obviously she loves him but she literally looks miserable in the scenes after they "sleep together". if anything, she does it to please him, which she does bc she loves him. the movie reiterates this since he literally drugs her and we find out she was pretending to be asleep to "please" him the whole time.
Great series of videos. Ikuhara's shows make me feel a lot of things that I cannot always explain or pinpoint. So it's really nice to hear someone put words on my impressions, add onto them and develop a point in such a concise and interesting way. Thanks ^^
While Miki's negative view of Kozue may be an illusion stemming from Miki's naive worldview. Kozue does have negative qualities that Miki is unaware of, and if he were to become aware of, he would most likely misinterpret as positive attributes. Namely, his sister's possessiveness. Utena's initial assessments of characters tend to be pretty telling of who people really are, and her interpretation of Kozue is that she is exactly like her brother. This comes to pass during the Black Rose arc when Kozue effectively becomes Miki's shadow self, conspiring against her brother to preserve his innocence in the belief that what she's doing is right. Assaulting and threatening the pedophile is one thing. Trying to drive other girls their own age away from pursuing a relationship with her brother is another thing entirely. In that moment by the pool, Kozue becomes Miki. Just something that I picked up on during a recent rewatch of Utena.
Ohhhh lol im glad i watched this because i didnt get it from utena. Well, probably because im also all shy and catholic about the subject and needed someone to point out that kozue isnt bad. I always thought she was bad, partially because she is worse in the movie, but i always had sympathy for her. But i didnt know how to defend her, i just thought to myself "shes bad in a way she should be allowed to be". I also love describing her with the words "thrill seeker" which applies to her sexuality but also everything else she does and highlights how shes different from miki. And now im reassured in knowing thats not a bad thing
Miki kinda reminds me of Trey Arclight from Yugioh ZeXal He kinda shares his innocence of the character from Yugioh They're both friendly, kind, and very good and are really sweet people and they want to know what's best for their siblings
@@asakapilled No, it's not. Just because the people controlling the status quo are indians, it doesn't make it a black supremacist series. Blaming Miki's problems to patriarchy and calling it a day is doing this show a major disservice. There are so many more interesting questions that actually affect how you treat your problems than to just shift the blame to everyone but you. If this series was about that, it would be a dogshit series. But having spent hundreds of hours researching it I know it's not. Plus, if you have an issue with gender roles. Say that Utena is about "gender roles". Just using "Patriarchy" to ascribe every different societal expectation that would take place in Ohtori academy is terrible analysis.
@@Gkario patriarchy and gender roles work in tandem, that’s kind of the whole point of patriarchy. utena subverts and criticises traditional fairytale roles. prince, princess, and witch are all gendered parts- the prince needs to save the princess, and the witch is a woman who couldn’t get a prince and decides she must work against that traditional heterosexual dynamic, thus making her the enemy of patriarchy. “a girl who cannot become a princess must become a witch” aka a girl who cannot be saved, like anthy, is undesirable and unworthy. utena’s core message is for us to “break out of our coffins”, to break out of these ascribed gender roles made by patriarchy to oppress women, and gender permeates every relationship in utena. miki is no exception to this. he desires the rose bride because she is pure, unlike his sister kozue who dates men he doesn’t like and thus is tainted. this is a classic example of a madonna whore complex. throughout utena, we see men abusing and taking advantage of women, and even other men to remain on top. saionji beats anthy. touga grooms nanami. akio rapes both anthy and utena. he also rapes saionji and touga so they can uphold the patriarchal system that he created so he can continue to feign princehood without actually doing any of the work. anthy being an indian woman also makes sense, as india is an incredibly difficult country for women to live in. and in general, darkskinned women will be treated with much worse misogyny than women who are white, or who have paler skin. of course she would be thrown under the bus and made to be impaled with thousands of swords symbolic of the worlds hatred of women. also indian people are not the same ethnicity as black people, they are south asian lmao ultimately the basis of utena is about a girl who is punished by the entire world because of something that a man did. and she can only escape because she accepts the help of another girl. utena is clearly anti patriarchy. of course it is incredibly complicated and there are all kinds of instersecting dynamics. but at its core utena holds a feminist message and explores different kinds of misogyny through its different characters
@@asakapilled This is so long and conflated that it's unanswerable. You are making so many false presuppositions. Japanese writers in 1997 obviously did not choose indians to be the head of the status quo because India in 2023 is still a religiously governed traditional country. You are making so many insane presuppositions that are begging the question. Juri was pretty manipulative to Utena in episode 7. Wakaba is depressed partly because of Utena, not the patriarchy. Do you think Shiori wasn't manipulative? Nanami? Being abusive to her friend group? Taking advantage of the 3 nerds? Trying to discredit Utena and Anthy? Killing her brother's cat out of spite? Having an insanely Inappropriate grooming relationship with Tsuwabuki? You are so obviously picking and choosing what fits the narrative that Ikuhara just cared about patriarchy, when we literally have commentary from him that contradicts this. Kozue manipulates Miki multiple times to get what she wants (imo it's made even more clear in the movie). The fact that Miki's insecurity of opening himself to Anthy is being narrated through this shallow "He doesn't want a 'slut' like his sister, he is actually exercising patriarchy", is such a bad analysis. I don't know what to tell you. I can run episode through episode and all my positions will stand. There is so much to this series that is irrelevant to patriarchy. And even the correlation, not causation parts like "gender roles" you can literally call out themselves instead of blaming the system. The most powerful force of Ohtori is not Akio, it's not even men, it's not the government. It's the people, when Anthy gets pierced by hundreds of swords, it's done through the public. When every member of the black rose is at their lowest, it's their social circle. When Utena gets allegedly killed, it's society, when Nanami sleeps over to Akio, it's societal pressure. And the only person in the whole show who stands against it is Utena.
@@Gkario you're saying society but what is utena's society if not the patriarchy? its because of society that akio's patriarchal system exists in the first place. why would anthy get stabbed by thousands of swords instead of akio for failing to do his job as a prince. no its because she's a "witch" aka a woman. yes, women can be manipulative to other women and also men as well. women can still do bad things under a patriarchy. there is no such thing as a perfect victim. do you think japanese people don't know what the patriarchy is? and they can't explore that in media? this is gonna be my last response
