In the book, is Lady Jessica the daughter or granddaughter of The Baron Harkonnen ? In Dune 2, Paul said that Jessica is the daughter of the Baron Harkonnen But how about the book ?
Yes, I agree... But somehow I am inclined to watch Rebecca Fergusson as an excellent cast, I don't know another actress who would do that role so well. She is an excellent actress, and really beautiful in some manner I can fully explain, not sultry, but more ethereal beauty. But, of course, that other actress in the first Dune was excellent too.
Alice Krige played an older, more mature Lady Jessica in the TV miniseries ‘Children of Dune’. I think she gave a nuanced performance. She also was excellent as the Borg Queen in Star Trek: First Contact (1996).
the actress for lady jessica is amazing she played her so amazingly and i love the tattoos over her face and how shes always covered once she becomes a reverend mother
Only started in the Dune lore, but I read somewhere that the Bene Gesserit can manipulate their own bodies to the point that they can control the gender of their children. If that is the case, did Jessica intentionally birthed Paul instead of a girl in defiance of her order?
One thing that's been bothering me as of late is....why didn't Lady Jessica just take a megaphone or a loud speaker and use the voice to order all of the invading forces to kill one another?
That's the thing about the voice. This is his only limitation it cannot be broadcasted it must be told directly. You can command a thousand people by your voice alone due due to high pitch frequency in control of your vocal cords. Through hypnotic suggestion but it must be direct using it over coms. Only deludes the potency of The voice. So it must be up-close-and-personal for the full effect. Now there were a thousand sisters maybe the voice could be. Used and broadcast it that way but like I said. Its potency is only as strong as it's direct contact.
Frank Herbert explains this in the books, the Bene Gesserit Voice is not a mind control technique; but more of a way to subtly use vocal tones to influence others and that some are immune to it. So it can't be used on an extreme large scale like against whole armies; the speaker still has to have the charisma to inspire others like Paul and later his son Leto II aka the God Emperor do. Voice is not enough.
Because that is an extreme way of suggesting... That can't be done for the same reason why a hypnotist can't hypnotize a big number of people, thousands for example. Some people are more susceptible to suggestions, and some less. In the normal, real world some people can be hypnotized without a problem, and there are even stages of how deep that suggestion can go, but some can't be hypnotized for various reasons.
@MOONAGEDAYDREAM28 heh yeah, well as the old saying goes. He who wins an argument learns nothing. Now if she had known the funniest joke in the world that'd be different!
Frank Herbert's son extended and embellished the Dune universe. Whether one takes his works as part of the cannon ~ Personally, I take the bits & pieces I like. That's not all of them. One story I did like, the Reverend Mother Gias Helen Mohiem, was sent as a rev mother and a fertile woman, to seduce Vladimir Harkonan and bare a daughter. But the Barron was angry with the Sisterhood, so he raped her. She was planning to bed him anyway, but he incapacitated her and took her roughly and made a performance of it. He removed her ability to give or with-hold consent. As revenge, she accepted his sperm and conceived a daughter, but she also infected the vain young Barron with an artificial ailment that would make him fat and ugly. She bore the child and had it removed from her at birth, but brought back at about 10 or 11, and the child was told this was her teacher and guide in the Sisterhood. One of the shocking things Jessica learned in the Spice Agony, was that her teacher / mentor, was actually her mother. Jessica was the daughter of the Barron and the Emperor's truth-sayer, one of the most senior and ruthless of the Bene Gesserit. Much is made of her relationship with her memories of the Barron, but her connection to her mother is hardly mentioned at all, and when it is, it's very subtle. --- I would say this was never part of Frank Herbert's original story, because near the end of Dune, Alia and Gias Helen Moheim have a fight of sorts, around teh edges of Paul v Faed Ruarter. If both of them are reverend mothers, and Alia is Helen's grand daughter, then she could not help but know that. Yet nothing in that scene refers to such a relationship.
All of the above is utter bullshit. What Brian and Kevin failed to understand is that the Bene Gesserit might know how to manipulate other people's emotions, but they don't allow emotion or sentiment among themselves. They consider love to be a weakness (in later novels love is referred to as "the Jessica crime"), and NEVER allow any of them to have contact with the daughters they birth and train at the chapterhouses. There is no way in hell that Mohiam could have been Jessica's teacher if they were mother and daughter. Therefore, for this reason and also because Frank Herbert stated in Children of Dune who Jessica's mother is - Tanidia Nerus - this whole "Mohiam is Jessica's mother, that is so cool!" is just soap opera-type Small World Syndrome where all the characters turn out to be each other's relative with just enough separation that some of them can marry and breed without actually committing incest. It's nonsense. The Baron never raped Mohiam because he and Mohiam never met. The Baron never raped any woman because he's not into women. He's gay. He also doesn't have a disease. He's as large as he is because he's self-indulgent and doesn't give a crap what anyone thinks of him. Frank Herbert states that the Baron likes offending people, and enjoys the fact that they find him repulsive. As long as they're wasting mental effort on being offended, they're not paying attention to his "plans within plans" to figure out what he's really up to.
@@Shan_Dalamani ~ These are reasonable objections. Brian and Kevin wrote a number of other events and incidents that I didn't think much of, but that particular one I rather enjoyed. That aside, I don't regard anything Brian and Kev wrote, as cannon. I don't want to say much more about it because it will start to sound like I'm defending or justifying it, which I don't wish to do.
Never read the book series but and I'm not sure her origins are accurately explained even by the author himself but I have grounds to assume she must have been conceived as a result of some Bene Gesserit prestess seducing Vladimir Harkonnen and conceinved a child without him knowing. That would explain why neither she knew she was Harkonnen and nor the Harkonnens knew she was their kin. And given how Bene Gesserit were semen-thieves and that they had rule of conceiving only daughters, it would make perfect sense.
Lady Jessica fighting against "injustice" & "oppression!!" Obvious who ever wrote this never read the Dune series!!😆😆😆😆 Paul Atreides was never the hero, neither was the Lady Jessica!!
Maybe it's just me but comparing to my impression from the books the Jessica in the recent film seems very week... In th ebooks I never had impression like she had lost control over herself, in the film we see coctail of badly hidden emotions - nothing agaist Rebecca Fergusson, the version of Jessica she potrayed was very interesting but I can bet she had never read any of the Dune books.
It is just you, and those actors, first-class actors certainly have read at least the first novel which is the base for the film. I don't see her as weak, she is simply made more acceptable for the audience.
@@ozymandiasultor9480 Ferguson didn't bother reading the novel before the first movie. You'd think she might have gotten a clue that she should, but she didn't.
Also, the script severely ignored or downplayed most of her nuanced moments from the book. All the political intrigue of the first half of the book was completely scraped from the film, and that's one of the moments Jessica shines the most in the story.
LOL. The miniseries runs very wide laps around Villeneuve's crap. Alice Krige made a good, competent Jessica, and very believable as someone with enhanced abilities.
"Leto Atreides" is Greek, to signify the ancient origins of the Atreides lineage. The Harkonnens are a combination of Finnish/East European. Much of the Fremen names are Arabic, or inspired by that language and general region.
She knows her father is the Baron, as Paul figures it out. The Baron doesn't know until the end of the book when Alia tells him just before she kills him - something Villeneuve deliberately screwed up for some dumb reason that only makes sense to him.
This IS an AI voice? Correct? The rhythms and intonation patterns are the same throughput- the pronunciation of the word “political “ is highly suspect, which first made me question the origin of this narration. Could I be right?
Nobody gave them the right. Religion, politics, subterfuge, analysis, research, training, education, martial arts, and of all things fanaticism allowed them to believe that they could operate in the open, the shadows, and behind the scenes at every level of the Empire! It doesn't matter what kind of government exists throughout history if an organization wants your genetic material they can take it or offer you the opportunity to give it away and not realize the true scope, scale, consequences, and even allow you to think it was a wonderful encounter! As an example do you ever wonder how well all of those "beauty pageant" contestants marry ? Hmmm!
FFS, if you're going to have an AI narrator, at least let it pretend to take a breath now and then. And get the pronunciation right in some of the names.
I’m so glad Villanueve had the intellegience to not have an all white cast specifically for the Frenmen. In what desert society are people stark white. Besides the cinematography there is a reason why this new Dune movie is much more believable, and in great part it is the diversity of the cast to reflect how each group of people would look. With the exception of the Harkonnens which weren’t bald in the books, but I do appreciate what he did there. But back to my point, the Frenmen descended from the Bedouin on earth, not the Swedish🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️
LOL. Villeneuve didn't have the intelligence to understand that Liet-Kynes is a man, that a woman wouldn't have that kind of position or authority either in the Imperium or among the Fremen, and that the novel he pretends to have been faithful to plainly states that Liet-Kynes is Chani's father. Now I don't have a doctorate in biology, but I've always been under the impression that fathers are men, not women.
That is a 21st century, Earth centric filter of the work. In the novel, the ancient cultures of Earth have died and been replaced by the great Houses. Culture is defined by the Houses. Atreides are loyal. Harkonnens are cruel and brutal.
I believe in the books the Atreides at least were 'brown' or 'olive' in some non-English translations. Also many cultural elements in the books were inspired by the Middle East so Islamic influences should not be a supprise. But white actors do indeed feel a bit out of place.
That is simplification and you obviously have no idea why Herbert chose such clothing which is not Islamic, it is clothing that people of certain parts of the globe were wearing long before that ideology became their religion. Herbert is writing about Dune, a planet that is a big desert, so he took inspiration from regions that are deserts on Earth, which made his novels more realistic. And no matter that the clothing may look Moorish to you, Herbert used most of the Persian traditions, and Islam has nothing to do with what he chose to present in his books. What accent do you prefer? Americanish? I watched that film a few times and that about the British accent is nonsense, but even if all spoke with a British accent, it makes no difference, unless you thought they should speak jibberish, some "alien" language, in which case you would have to read subtitles because I bet you don't know the language they speak on those planets.
@@nekomatic No, white actors are exactly how those characters are described, you have some black actors among Fremens, and those are out of place, the filmmakers should have decided to make Fremens Mediterranean-looking or black, but not some mix. And Herbert used the traditions and clothing of Africa, not Islamic teachings, Islam has nothing to do with those novels.
Such poor casting for Lady Jessica. Though I blame the director more for her poor portrayal. Watching her shake like a terrified puppy as Paul.took the test was.. wow. Horrible choice.
Unfortunately she's my favorite character in the series and I was horrified by what the movie did to the character. It killed my enthusiasm from the beginning. Glad we'll always have the books.
@@joaopauloduartedasilva4101 Same. Such a pity. Thre mind boggles... I would guess the people that like her performance never read the books and have no idea how off her portrayal is.
@@uniblonder5606 A movie (none) is not a book. You are right that Jessica is different in the books, but the movie version is very good and Rebecca Feerguson played the role brilliantly.
