Derek takes us through the difference between a gas safety check for landlords and the servicing of gas appliances. He looks at cookers, fires and boilers to find out what checks are needed for both tests.
Hi Tom Huge Fan of your videos, im glad you lay this out about landlords reports because alot of them do cut corners, every appliance should be checked and serviced accordingley - by dedicated engineers all the fake ones need to re-sit their exams Keep up the good work tomkat
Enjoyed your video, only thing missing from your discourse was the fact that companies need to allow engineers enough time to carry out their duties correctly, 15 jobs a day = rushing and things missed. Look forward to your next one.👍
I was really looking forward to watching this one. Very informative. Amazing. You explained it really well and you’re teaching us the proper way, not the shortcuts. Much appreciated. Thanks Derek 👍🏻 Asian Jon. Training.
Great video Derek, clearly explained for everyone to understand the difference between service and landlord Cp12, very detailed Helpful for all gas engineers who want to do a proper job
I congratulate you Derek on your informative delivery of training, i have been in the trade 40 years and had many different gas trainers, your the best, I'll try to get our apprentice to travel and attend your premises.
Excellent video You are right in regards to GE doing the job properly and getting paid correctly Its a dog eat dog World This video has reminded me to charge correctly and doing the job to the correct standards
I would like to thank you for all your videos I believe that what you are providing is a bridge between newly qualified GE with no experience and a fully qualified GE, with experience. Getting experience for newly qualified GE is impossible in todays world as no-one is willing to help. I can honestly say, from a gas engineer who qualified 3 years ago, you are given out information for free what other people would charge an arm and a leg for and building confidence for new engineers, who don't and cannot get the experience, to go out there themselves and test the waters of the GE world. Keep up the good work Look forward to seeing more of your work
£125 for a service should be standard. Minimum for gas safety cert £85. People are crazy doing it for anything less. Its costs me £300 to get my van serviced.
Brilliant video Derek totally agree with what you said about doing the job properly and charging properly for it. Same as you I get customers asking me why am I doing that I've never seen anyone do that before 🙄 To me it's about personal standards and keeping them high.
You hit the nail on the head with paid properly to many so called engineers doing gsi’s for 20 quid is driving the industry into the ground. I must have 10 emails a week offering me gsi contracting work 12 a day 20 quid a job
Thanks for this Video Derek, Duty of Care is the word everyone in the industry should remember. I've been in the Gas industry for a year and a half , came in as a mature student. I am apparently a 'course cowboy' I found out on some forums because of how I accessed the industry. I was always confused about LGS and Servicing differences and it never made sense to me why you did something for one and not the other, so I just took the same approach to both and charged the same. For a boiler I always check with tenant if they have any issues with boiler, do a Tightness, 26(9) checks, drain water and repressurise expansion (check water quality during this ) Gas rate, SP and WP at meter and appliance. Mag filter and condi cleaned, and burner on S.E. cleaned. H.E. (dependant if the landlord agrees prior based on age of boiler and service history.) Visual inspection on PRV pipe and condi discharge also, its pretty easy when checking the flue termination. My opinion is that the appliance should be safe for a tenant, but also work for the next 12 months! People on housing or rental should not have to put up with a subpar service and appliances that will breakdown just because they don't own it and there is an extra buck to come back and fix when you know it will break, it's even worse if the cover isn't opened. If i'm a cowboy then YeeeHA!
@@cliveramsbotty6077 I think what I learned was how to take a diligent approach to working on Gas appliances and charging for a job done correctly. Abbreviations only serve to reduce a post length and are clearly inconsequential in the scheme of things. Forest for the trees mate.
I always put on an LGSC recommend boiler be serviced. So on a service the regs are now you must carry out water condition test? Thanks for the video your the man 👍
4.30secs onwards....best reality advice given to gsri's who are charging that pathetic amount for a CP12 in Birmingham. Derek I hope the gsri's take on board what you have said about charging such low rates on LLORD CERTS.
Here in bradford engineers offer services for £30 and just do a FGA When I give them a price for a strip down service with new burner gaskets etc they think I'm a scammer cos they usually get a service for £35! I tell them its same as a MOT on your car and a service on your car.. frustrates me people running the trade down to the ground.
Hi thanks for the video , I must admit I do most of the things you have demonstrated but on the odd occasion where I've encountered a gas fire on a landlord check I've never removed the fire to inspect the chimney but just done a visual flame picture and general condition so thanks for bringing that up . On the same token it's now making me think that I may steer away from any inspections that have a gas fire because removing the entire appliance especially if their steel cabled fixed that you may as well be installing a new fire in terms of time . How much can you do on a typical inspection in terms of what people are prepared to pay . I noticed on a lot of larger companies job descriptions if they employ you they expect you to do around 8 gas safety inspections a day which would be impossible if they all had fires. I was working on a plumbing job in a house and a (well know company) engineer came in to service the boiler and pretty much done what you say , flue analyser , cleaned the condense and shot off in about 15 minutes . I think I cover a good 90 percent of what you have covered but must be honest the fires do worry me if that level of detail is required . On another note there a lot of occasions where I see gas reports left behind by other engineers for larger companies I might add that half the form fields are left blank especially for gas rating , I spend a lot of time doing my inspections and servicing ....think I'll just skip the jobs that have fires installed in the future as must be honest dont think I'd cover my wages ....thanks for all the tutorials . Very informative .
Nice video Derek....👍 I will only do a LL cert if I carry out servicing of appliances at the same time , if the LL doesn’t want the servicing done then I don’t do the cert.....let them get one of the £ 30 guys and good luck with that....😳 Cheers mate
good practice to always always do a tightness test. I had this same issue with bolton Council/Bolton at home. they were not interested in even looking at the other appliances apart from the boler because there was no instructions for the cooker or fire. NOT GOOD.... THis vid should be made public
Great stuff Derek, landlords have the tightest pockets around and gas engineers seem to forget they are collecting weekly rent from tenants. £20 per annum to satisfy the regs is a joke compared to the weekly rent let's be honest Any chance of a vid on the new giusp Jan 2021 version? A few changes that could catch people out e.g. missing grommets and air inlet test points being AR, updated RIDDOR reporting flowchart
Hi Derek. Thanks, great vid again. Where does the requirement for service come from. Have looked through the regs and cant find it. I am using the LCL book and that seems to say that that servicing is not a legal requirement (although it wouldn't be the first thing in that book I think might be wrong).
Every gas appliance requires servicing every 12 months but because it’s not a legal requirement for landlords to keep records of service and repair most think the landlords report is good enough to cover the requirements of the service.
Hi Derek. As a newbie I really enjoy your videos and I do learn a lot from there or how can put it...u clear a lot of my questions without me even asking lol😁 But I do have one question on this topic and I can’t find the answer. So as a new engineer to the industry I don’t have all the appliances qualifications atm (but I will be going back to get them after the probation period)So my question is : Am I allowed to do Landlords safety checks in a property where there is an appliance installed and I do not hold the relevant element qualification i.e. fires.??.🤔 I can not find this anywhere as all I know I must be qualified and gas safe register to work on a gas appliances. Thanks
You are only allowed to carry out a landlords report on appliances you are qualified to work on. Also you are still required to do a portfolio on the appliances you are not qualified on before you can take an assessment it just not the 6 months on the gas safe register.
Hi Burner pressure and operating pressure are the same thing, working/inlet pressure is different and not asked for on a LLGSR, the other option is the Gas Rate. An inlet pressure will not tell you if an appliance is over gassed/working beyond its design (data badge reading). Take a Vaillant VCW 242 with a burner pressure of between 4-6mb if you take a inlet working pressure and put down 19mb that doesn't tell you the appliance is operating safely because the Burner/operating pressure could be way above its badged rating and you wouldn't know with out the BP/OP being checked or the Gas Rate being done. Sure easy way to tell the check hasn't been done right when you find only 19,20,21mb in the BP/OP Column, or the inlet gas rate being exactly the figure that the model it is IE Greenstar 24i gas rate input as 24kw. We see a good 70+% of LLGSR's with condensing boilers with 19mb down instead of a gas rate. Pet hate is also seeing the cookers safety chain secured to the gas pipe on the cookers. Its stopped the cooker toppling over but has just put undue stress of the most important part of the cooker that should not have any strain on it, should go on the cookers carcass. They do also say you can use the Grill Burner injector to check pressure on a cooker. I will only do a LLGSR if it has Open flued appliances if I'm servicing those appliances at the same time due to the nature of them drawing in dust and dirt. If it's not serviced its going to need to be before the 12 months is up and possibly be a safety concern before another check is due. I say to the LL's having just a LLGSR each year and not a services is like only ever having your car MOT'd each year and never getting it serviced. Like you say quite worrying the amount of time You have to take the case off ? I have to go out in 15mins you'll be finished by then won't you?, why do you need to see the meter, the last bloke just turned the fire on and off what are you doing to it. OF Fire's where always the worse to come across as it seems the guys with set price gas checks found a fire on a chimney in the property and thought I haven't got time for only getting paid £x so don't hardly touch it. Getting less and less of them around now though.
I think gas safety landlord certificates should be issued through gas safe. The engineer does the work sends report via pda. Gas safe take payment agreed at a national level and pay engineer proper fees for work done. Gas safe take a admin fee and issue certificate to landlord. It would tighten the net on bad landlords and engineers.
If it passes ie doesn’t turn off the gas in the given time when the pilot flame is blown out it’s ID but if it’s broken ie won’t hold the pilot in then it’s just broken
@@tomkatgastraining thank you Derek, that's something the college never let me know before I qualified. Keep up the good work. Even though I have my qualifications I keep watching your videos as I'm always learning something new 👍
Gas Safe landlord certificate and service here in N Ireland has been about £60 per flat for a while here in Belfast. Went to £66 last year. As a landlord I reckon this is reasonable. I don't understand who could be traveling in their own van to a job, doing it thoroughly, keeping up their Gas Safe registration and charging £25.
That job you went to where the boiler was completely rotten on the inside, did you have to report the previous engineers that wrongly checked the appliances.. is there even a process for attempting to report them and is the process ever successful.. ? I guess it could be hard to dispute that the boiler insides were ok at the time and date of the report so therefore you cant report them? Have i answered my own question ?
What happens on a Shared ownership scheme where you pay a small rent. Does the statutory requirement still stay with the Landlord or as the tenant is also buying is it their responsibility to service the boiler?
@@tomkatgastraining Who is classed as a responsible person? Surely it is who the requirement is upon in the regulations, so if it was the Landlord that he can't contract out of the statutory requirement for him to service. I'm just unsure how this plays out in a shared ownership situation where the Tenant is also a part-owner.
I believe for general public ie not landlords, it’s not a legal requirement to issue certification after a service, they don’t need a safety record am I correct?, cheers
You should always leave a record of your work when working on gas. Gas safe will ask for paperwork from jobs if you get a complaint about you. So my advice would be keep very good records of your work it could save you from prosecution down the line.
At 31.39, you said that “ the higher the CO readings, the more efficient the appliance is”. What did you actually mean by that because I work for a boiler manufacturer and I can assure you that is not the case at all?
If you take the Vaillant IQ boiler with heat recovery it gives of high levels of co so they say not to put the analyser in the boiler for the first 15 minutes they have also increased the max reading to 350 ppm co because of this type of boiler that’s what I was getting at because guys start to panic when the boiler goes over 250 ppm
I agree with you that a reading of over 250 ppm is not an issue but it depends on the KW output of the boiler, I would imagine the vaillant your referring to is quite powerful and therefore the CO readings will be higher, which the CO readings directly correlate to output, for instance a 40kw boiler can give out readings over 250 ppm and be totally o.k but a 24kw boiler will only put out CO readings of 150 ppm so it is not the higher the CO the more efficient, it is the higher the CO the more powerful the boiler is.
@@kevincranfield5235 I look at it in general terms for training IE a non condensing boiler will give off less co than a condensing boiler but we know in our industry that is not always the case. Every days a school day for us so thanks for watching and your great comments cheers
20 quid what planet are you on! its not even minimum wage after you paid for calibration, fuel cost and wear on veihcle, paperwork, insurances, stickers, ancilliaries, travelling time to the job and initial cost of tools. just tell them to get on with it. i got landlords that i looked after for years moaning now because of part L changes........... just let them go if they are not happy. i argee with what your saying but if a customer has told you no other gas appliances. i wouldnt open anything in anyones house including a door. unless it related to my work. and i would ask first. what about if they were open flued two in the same room. or extractor fan pulling down the chimney or. a mix of gas and soild fuel. ok when checking at no fire in that soild fuel appliance. now do you make the customer make a fire like they have on xmas day? answer is yes. £20 quid.. nah i hate them catalitic appliances. we all know people some people dont follow instrucitions. they are a problem. b and q thought it was great tho didnt they. i never pre heat initially. visual inspection. wtf how did someone blowlamp the wall that far up.
