Lando Norris brake cam shows simracing brake travel is all wrong 

Os it lots of hot air from marketing companies, the reality of what we can have in simracing or something else like leaving a like and subbing?

Yeah the whole 'has to be short travel and super hard' thing is a myth, set up your brake how you like it to feel and play

I think in race cars, and F1 in particular, the pedal feel will be set to driver preference, just like their seat is moulded to their body shape - maximum comfort gets maximum performance.

I went from simracing to (club level) motorsport, and found many interesting differences that simracing just can't ever reproduce. Regarding the braking in the real world, a firm pedal gives me the confidence to brake hard, and the long pedal travel allows me to easily modulate the brake pressure as needed depending on the circumstances (the limit of brake performance is always changing and you need to be able to adjust the amount of brake you are using to stay at that threshold of brake performance). With simracing, I'm not entirely sure that a long pedal would work the same way, simply because the g-forces and other physical sensations aren't there. With the brake modulation I mentioned, knowing how much brake to use comes from feeling how the car is decelerating, feeling how the tyres are contacting the road, how the car moves around, how the weight of the car shifts from corner to corner. In a sim, you don't get that (maybe you do in the proper high end stuff, but I never had that). It makes me think that a long pedal in a sim would be discomforting, because you aren't getting the additional information needed to make use of the long travel.

I've drove a F3 car a few years ago. The brake pedal had no slop, was very heavy, but easy to modulate. Loved it.

This was the first thing I thought about when I saw the footage from Lando. I got the CSL load cells and like a lot of other people found them too stiff or not having enough travel. Nice to see the pros like a bit of travel too!

I recall seeing a video interview with Sebastien Loeb in a custom sim cockpit and they had a setup with a hydraulic brake that clamped on a disc that spun according to the car's speed. This might be the most genuine sim way to emulate a real brake setup instead of what we have now.

At some point along my many upgrades through the years I realized I dont have a race car to emulate, therefore the setup is up to my imagination and how I want my "race car" to feel. I stopped trying to make it feel any way but perfect for me. The most important thing is that when I think I am applying 50% brake I am actually applying 50% brake, or whatever value my brain is thinking is what my foot is also feeling. I currently use the V3s with the brake performance kit one red and one green and the foam piece and about 2 preload. Then I sat there in the calibration software until with my eyes closed I could do both 50% and 80% applications of the brake. I changed the max value until the PC was seeing what I felt was right, if I had to guess Im probably around 60-65kg at 100% even though I am more then capable of applying far greater then the 90kg the load cell is rated for.

The "need" for a high force, short travel pedal in sim racing is all bullshit passed from one person to another and hailed as gospel. James Baldwin says he runs a low pressure brake specifically because it's less tiring over a race and so he can be consistant. When all is said and done it's all about using what you want and practicing with what you have.

Excellent work! My experience in driving FF's and F2000's was that the pedals were very stiff, minimal movement. However, it isn't this or that, it's preference. You did an excellent job with this.

One thing I think is being overlooked in terms of the F1 brake system is the fact it is a brake by wire system. The pedal isn't connected to any part of the braking system, it is connected to a black box that determines the amount of braking force to apply and the amount of retardation used by the Energy Recovery System. So I would say the pedal travel at least in an F1 car is a driver preference. I seem to remember that Kimi had a lot of problems adjusting to the BBW system when it was first introduced as he said the pedal felt numb and had no feedback of the braking response. Edit, as pointed out below I was incorrect in the statement I made about the pedal connection to the braking system.

After a LOT of research, I saw that a TON of GT3, Formula Pros used Heusinkeld Ultimates. At first I stuck with the default 3 Hard elastomers. After doing more research about the travel movement that pros used in their sims, I saw that most used 45mm-62mm pedal travel in the sims. The default elastomers in the Heusinkeld Ultimate + gave about 25mm travel so I switched to the 3 softer elastomers and I get like 50mm travel now. I created two profiles in Heusinkveld Smart Control for GT3 and Formula cars with different Max force and I pretty much have the perfect travel and pedal strength I was looking for all along.

My brake pedal feel is exactly like my road cars pedal feel. I'm never going to race, race cars. So I'm keeping my left foot doing something that it's use to doing, and it works for me, plus it's basically worked out now, ever hour spent braking in sim couples with my actual car

I’m guessing from an engineering standpoint it’s easier to make a sim pedal be consistent and accurate with a very small range of travel.

The comments can say whatever they want but you cant argue with someone wearing a Iron Maiden T-shirt

I think the main thing pf the sort/stiff pedals in simracing is that, at least for me, you can be more consistent with presure than with travel. In sim there is a lot of information you lack, like the pedal vibration or G forces. Thats because in a real car, you can have larger pedal travel to modulate the braking easyer.

I don't have any info regarding the brake pedal travel for F1, but I listened to a podcast with a long serving F1 engineer (Jock Clear I think) and he mentioned around 55 mm travel for gas pedal in the Schumacher era. He mentioned Villeneuve who had less than 30mm gas pedal travel. Have in mind that the current F1 cars have brake by wire.

I think that the pedal is set to Lando's preference, either that or it is stiff, because every time I see regular people driving f1 cars at events and such they can almost NEVER get to 100% brake pressure. F1 drivers are just very strong to be able to press it to 100% consistently

Thumbs up for the Shirt!. That aside, I run a soft pedal on my rig as I expect the pedal to move, not just to be a solid plate that applies pressure to a sensor.

The full brake pedal experience, including the changing "free travel" as brake fluid changes temperature and as pads wear down, and vibration from worn discs, can be simulated with a servomotor to "push back" on the pedal, controlled by some clever software. The problem is this - a brake pedal servomotor would require several times the torque of the biggest direct drive wheel (which is also a servomotor). The cost, bulk and power consumption would be a little insane. There may be ways to work around the power and bulk, but the solution would be even more costly.

I messed with the springs in my brake and found a combination of mid range travel and a medium stiffness that I love. Makes for easy heel/toe and consistency throughout.

I’ve been saying this for ages. Some load cells are completely unrealistic with 0 travel…

Watching the entire video is pretty insightful. Its not just empty travel moving the disks without braking, he presses smaller shorter distances with trail into certain corners well below the maximum travel we see so he appears to have very little slack but quite a lot of practical movement range all of which is providing him with more braking force. I would love to hear some questions to Lando about the adjustments he can do to the brake pedal and his preference of setup. He clearly overlaps the brake and coming off the accelerator considerably. He trails sometimes past the apex point and they clearly use trailing to get the nose to bite in on those high speed corners which is interesting. He is very smooth off the brake every time and with really quite long periods of trail braking. So beyond just the brake travel there is also some simulator knowledge that is wrong here as we tend to get off the brakes to balance aero and we don't cross over the accelerator and brake and if you trail heavy into a high speed aero corner the car is going to snap. This pedal cam of a complete lap informs where a lot of sim knowledge isn't quite right.

The only thing wrong with this video was I couldn't see all of your Iron Maiden T-Shirt.

Coolest thing would be like an actual spinning rotor with pads for feeling. Would make a huge mess in the room tho lol.

Thanks for the video! Trying to find spring sets for my brake pedal to mix with the elastomers just had me confronted with sim-racing elitism that ridiculed the possibility of someone wanting some light-effort travel before hitting the elastomers and compressing those. Finally someone who points out real systems actually *do* work like that and are not hard as a stone from the first contact onward. Another thing to note is that "hardcore sim racers" are quick to ridicule people who do not want to drive formula cars all day. I bought my sim rig to yeet street cars over the Nordschleife, drift down Mt. Haruna and cruise the Shuto Expressway. In fact, I've never driven a formula car in the sim rig, I just don't like the things. Somewhere the "simracing community" has ingrained itself that: 1. You NEED 15+ Nm 2. You NEED hard-as-rock load cell pedals 3. You can ONLY do GT3 OR Formula-style racing I stopped visiting /r/simracing and related communities and just did my own thing, which made ME happy. And I don't need to make excuses of "yeah that's just what it feels like in a RAcEcAr" to everybody who hopped into my rig, as the inputs just feel similar to a generic road vehicle. It'd be a good thing if the simracing community stopped being elitist circlejerks for a minute, and see what actual cars do. /rant

okay, please do a review on the LONGEST brake travel in the market, cause I DEFINITELY want one

It all depends on what the driver finds comfortable

Yeah, I have my V3 inverted pedals set with a fairly long throw, but it does get hard at the end. Mine is a compromise, I drive trucks in American Truck Sim and race karts in GT7. Very different vehicles. I also do a lot of rally racing in Dirt Rally 2.0 so there is variety. I set my pedals as close to my real world vacuum assisted hydraulic three pedals you will find in older cars and trucks here in U.S. I have had super hard brakes but did not like it. I have had super soft brakes and I did not like that either. I am happy with my compromise.

I was just at CTMP Mosport and they had some rigs set up using Assetto Corsa and I predume a mod of CTMP. Anyway, to my point. The wheel was Thrustmaster but I'm not sure about the pedals. However hitting them was like pushing my foot up against a wall...very little travel and I have to say I liked it and I didn't fear locking the brakes. I have the regular Fanatec pedals and it's so easy to lock up so for me, I think the short throw would be good. BTW, I'm no rookie but I'm nowhere near what some sim racers can do but they were suitably impressed. Made my day.

That's the beauty of active pedals, you can mimic any braking system accurately.

Good topic, you are right about mechanical pressure and that is why pressure sensor pedals are beneficial in sim equipment. I think that is why low travel is also preferred by individuals though, as a load cell offers the ability to make even a rigid pedal still work. Regardless of travel the same amount of force is still required, so it becomes an efficiency thing. If you train your brain to focus on pressure, physical travel becomes nothing more than a preference and limiting it could improve performance. I have been finding this out myself and am looking to limit travel because of it. Pressure based sim pedals are much like a digital bathroom scale, you can change the weight simply by how hard you press even though a digital scale is pretty rigid.

As a spanish guy watching the video, you killed me with the unexpected Pedro Gaseosa

That’s what I love about my real life car - both clutch and brake are hard and have a lot of travel still.

zero movement 200kg LC xd ........ jokes aside i prefere a good ammount of travel and the feel elastomers give me, the wider i press the harder it gets , and thats more realistic than most of simproduct producer say it should be.

The brake pedal you are used to will always be the best. Also in sim racing you have to rely on other cues to judge brake performance then you would IRL. So for me good audiovisual cues from the game may be more important then the actual brake pedal I'm using.

i think it's possible that shorter brake travel is common because it minimizes the amount of time it takes to get from 0% - 100% brake pressure, which is a pretty common place to lose time.

it's also depending on the brake line that you have. in most of the road care they are flexible so the brake fluid with pressure is causing them to expand and it'll give the pedal a longer range and softy feelling due to the expension of the line. Howwever in a ''race car the brake line is made with a metal line so the presssure doesn't drop and it feels way harder. You will have a hard pedal with (old) single-seater racing cars that have no abs. Speed when you hit the brake also give you a different feeling cause when u hit the brake with a high velocity car you can put way more pressure. At low speed and the pads should be hard at the first hit then soft

This is exactly my issue, I just got a set of CSL LC pedals and the travel is just rock hard. Even a noremal car brake has some travel before you feel pressure pushing back. There should be travel in a brake pedal, to give some sort of feel to the braking.

Well I’ve driven a F4 car and a GT3 and both had really stiff short travel brakes… Even had to drive a Mclaren 675LT at work once and the pedal was stiff as a rock. You can’t use F1’s as example tho because they use brake by wire technology. So the pedals will move more and the system will compensate for the G-force pushing the foot forward according to driver preference.

I do wonder whether they have modelled the brake travel on go karts, go karts have insanely small amounts of travel in pedals. They are also readily available to any man, women on the street. It is a shame as when I started racing round the UK in the early 90s as a kid the brakes used back then had a fair bit of travel, and then as things progressed new braking systems came in, more effective, but with minute travel lengths on the pedals. The Devs could have tried these systems out? Just a theory.

exactly it all comes down to driver preference n the brake system.. a shorter travel will give stiffer feel faster braking reaching maximum pressure more increase risk of locking up because there is less range to work with. longer travel more range n precision progressive softer feeling easer to work with n less change of locking up as u can modulate with more precision.

Brake pedals always have travel, they are hydraulically connected, to the brakes so they need to move to move the pads. There are plenty of ways you can set up the pedal, for the same actuation of the pad, large or small travel. In the most famous series, you will have it set up to driver preference. In series where teams have less budget, the easiest way to create a brake system is for it to have almost no travel, by directly connecting the input of the pedal to the lines. Most people who are racing and need the realism in order to improve on their home sims, take part in those series.

I have always run quite a bit of travel on my Fanatec v3, it just feels more natural and easier to get my trail braking better.

A big point to also mention, Formula 1 cars are brake-by-wire and fly-by-wire throttle pedals, therefore there is no mechanical link to the brakes or throttle bodies. All of the movement used by the drivers would be completely customisable and to the preference of the drivers.

I worked in the design of my university's FSAE car and we are able to set the brake pedal travel to driver preference from almost nothing to about 20 degrees. It's all preference or limitations in cockpit design, it really doesn't matter that much in the end of the day, what matters is brake line pressure

I once had the opportunity to drive a formula bmw at a bmw event and I was quite baffled how solid the brake pedal was. Of course there was no threshold braking going on that day :D After that I set my sim Pedals up that way. But I totally agree that this doesn't seem to be the norm by what I've seen on pedal cams. V8SC was actually the first where it occured to me to just setup what feels good : )

I've always tried to replicate brake pedal movement as I know it from my road car, a ultra tight and heavy brake pedal would just make me lock up and go in a straight line all the time. To each his own, and I might be slower for it when it comes to laptimes but I'd rather have some travel and not get leg cramps when playing make believe racing driver :D

The strange thing is from my young days in sim racing, im doing it currently for 10 years on and off since i was 11 with old wheels Logitech grand turismo, anyways, i got load cels the TLCM ones, i thought they are great, but the strange thing was i preffered the old non load cell ones, why ? becouse they had more travel i could consistently brake better with non load cells due to fealing exactly how much i pressed in , with load cells i have problem and still having after 1 + year using them , yes i dont lock up while breaking but, i dont feel when exactly i have to fully break and I lock the brakes to much becouse i dont feel fully when where is the end point and how much presure i need to aplly due even if im using the breaks for this longs at the same setup.

I sat in porsche GT3 Cups few times and first thing I noticed was quite the opposite of normal pedals: Brake was a traveller, but the throttle moves almost nothing.

For the past couple of days I tried setting my CSL-ELITE pedals up with 65 shore elastomers. Heel and tow shiffting still needs work, but left foot braking became easier to control. I can actually trail brake now? What!?! I thought squishy pedals needed more effort, but this is backwards to me? I may have been wrong too. I'll keep at it and see how I get on with the soft pedal. Oh, and I needed to turn the braking force way down.

Yeah I remember watching a video on some normal guy who got to drive a formula 1 car for an evening and he said that the brake pedal was really stiff. I forget what he said about the travel, but it has been something on my mind for a while now.

I will say that IRL, F1 cars have such big travel due to the cars REQUIRING degressive braking, i.e going full send at the start and easing it out through the turn where as normal racing and road cars are the opposite, requiring starting light and progressively adding more and more brake.

I dont think people understant the pedal travel was never stated to be real lol. The reason its short and stopping force is due to the load cell. The sensors work faster and better with shorter teavel with a hard sropping point for readings. The reason our pedals are this way is because load cells make our braking more accurate not that it makes it more realsitic. It helps us with braking with a sensor thats using pressure or force as its reading. Instead of disntace or travel. Thats why it has nothing to do with real rscers travel vs ours lol.

I'm surprised. I'll have go and find pedal videos for Formula 1 and other race cars. Decades ago I raced Formula Ford. The brakes were light even without a servo because the cars are light. The pedal movement was next to nothing. It was like pushing on a block of wood. It was necessary to get used to it after only driving road cars but the brakes were hugely effective and controllable once mastered.

Some corners also only require a soft braking, so a long travel gives you more possibilities to adjust the pressure you need. Especially if you need to hold the pressure constant at a specific amount for a bit.

*WHOAAAAAA!!!!!!* So you’re telling me that a vehicle, that’s built specifically to maximize the most out of *every single moving part* has *DIFFERENT* brakes?!?! I’m shocked!! Thank you so much for explaining this!!!…..

The problem with IRL onboard videos is that they are a drop in the ocean. They show us what the specific driver, team and manufacturer wanted their pedals to behave like under the specific conditions the video was shot under. This by no means demonstrates what the general consensus is when it comes to pedal stiffness and travel. The same problem applies to sim pedal manufacturers. They only have access to a limited number of cars (if any) for R&D purposes and maybe they've asked a few drivers about their preferences. Whichever the case, as long as the brake pedal is progressive and feels convincing, I don't think there's a right and wrong way of doing things, just personal preference. From my little experience of brake pedals in road cars, I've always felt much more comfortable with stiffer, shorter throw brake pedals because of how easy they make fine modulations.

I believe the future for sim racing brake pedals will be that of FFB pedals. I believe it will be with software as to how we achieve a more realistic feeling from our pedals, not from using hydraulics and other mechanical parts found on a real life race car. Think about how far along FFB steering wheels have come and they don't use anything that resembles an actual race car steering box, even on the high end direct drive units, so why should it be any different for your sim pedals...

I also think that everybody should adjust their sim rig as they prefer it to be and how they perform the best. For me personally, I always felt that a decent travel for the brake pedal feels better, gives you more resolution to dial in the brake pressure and is not as harsh to your body. Dogmas never work, the world is complex.

The f1 rear brake are close to sim pedals than they are actually mechanical brakes. The BBW is controlled by a pedal and potentiometers. There is not physical connection between the brakes and the pedals(or the throttle and PU)

My heusinkveld ultimate pedals drive me crazy for this reason. I can't add anymore travel in the brake pedal. I can't find a sweet spot that works. I drive a 991.1 GTS on the road and on the track on weekends. When I get back in the sim, it's difficult to be consistent.

Others have commented on it here already but of course these cars are setup to how the driver likes them. Don’t know why this sticks in my head but I always remember that Jacques Villeneuve suffered terribly in the wet (compared to Damon Hill) because he loved a brake pedal with a tiny amount of travel and a throttle with about an inch (or so) or travel. So he could be hard on the power and brakes and let the electronics (at the time) sort it out for him. Damon preferred more control. Cadence braking, smooth on the throttle, etc. but yeah a really interesting video and it shows that all these 350kg super hard sim racing setups are now always accurate.

you are missing that modern f1 cars have break by wire systems. they can basicly set the break however they want

Perhaps, to truly emulate brake feel in pedals, we need to plumb up a real master cylinder, caliper, and pad to our sim brakes, attached with a joint to the back of the pedal just like it would be in the real vehicle. Honestly, the clutch could be done the same way, given hydraulic clutches use a similar cylinder setup. Of course, you could use real automotive hardware across the board, but given that the same effect of a caliper+pad and clutch spring could be entirely recreated on a much smaller scale, sim specific hardware could be made, with a caliper that just piston compresses a polycarbonate brake pad into a metal backplate, and a relatively strong encased spring on another caliper for the clutch, with a small lighter spring closer to the piston, to emulate the bit of travel before the clutch disc actually starts getting separated from the flywheel. Bam! You've got authentic brake and clutch feel in a relatively compact space, by recreating exactly what they do on a smaller scale. Of course, the brakes and clutch won't represent the active stare of the ingame vehicle very well, but they'll definitely reflect the springy nature of the hydraulic system in the most authentic way possible.

I have never driven a real car in my entire life. I have no idea what's realistic - I just pick what I think is the most fun and suits my preferences the most.

I'm not sure where I got this information from, but I heard that in a road car max brake pressure must be able to be applied with less force than whatever is necessary to an average person to stand on one leg. So assuming the average person weighs around 70kg, no more than 70kg (likely less) is necessary to get max brake application. In an F1 car afaik that max brake pressure is closer to 150kg.

Hey really enjoyed the video but it doesn't apply to F1 sim racing (and perhaps others) as they use brake by wire. This means an F1 sim racers break peddle and real (modern) F1 drivers peddles are doing the exact same thing: producing an electric signal telling a computer how much break force to apply

If you are DIYing your sim racing settup, lebois-racing has nice tutorial how to build more realistic break pedals with master cylinder, break caliper and so on.

Seems to me that: 1) Brake travel is dependent on the car, the drivers preference, or both. 2) Brakes seem harder IRL because they have to be, to compensate for G forces the drivers will also be under then being applied to their brake pressure. If they weren't, the drivers would smash the brakes every single time. 3) Sim pedals try to compensate for G forces by replicating force required, when they should be focusing more on feel and providing racers the ability to fully change the pressure required to their own preference. Cracking vid mate.

Love the video! It's great to start some discussion about topics like this.

it depends on lot on brake pad thickness and master cylinder sizes

Guys, a fact i learned long time agora, race cars doesn’t have brake pedal free play before the actual brake pressure length applied. That’s just it.

I always set up my brake for "linear" feel. Whatever braking force gives you the most ability to modulate small movements is best. Too little resistance, then its easy to make too large adjustments by accident. Too much resistance then it is difficult to modulate the brake responsively. I find the sweetspot then gradually increase resistance as my leg gets stronger.

Lol " probably completely wrong here on some if not all... but keep watching" 🤣🤣

In terms of F1 they are pretty much using Sim brakes, that whole part about the mechanical feel of the brake pedal isn’t particularly relevant to F1 because they’re all Brake By Wire. When the driver presses the pedal that sends an electrical signal to a computer which then applies the brakes so there’s no physical connection between the pedal and the brakes.

i think teams can adjust brake force, thats all to it i guess. and maybe some parts from different companies have larger or shorter parts that makes the brake pedal move more than others

My race cars has pretty much the same travel as my sim pedals. I have basically a v8 supercar setup on my falcon.

Regarding the g force brake assist in a racing car, surely if the driver is securely strapped in then only the mass of your leg acting against the inherent elasticity of your ankle, hip and knee joints and your muscles stiffness would provide any ‘assist’? ie this should be minimal?

i think it differs per driver though. they adjust it in a way that is best for them

Honestly I have to say that in my case my brake pedal (heusinkveld sprint) is absolutely STIFF. I also added one more elastomer to the travel so now I have 4 instead of 3 like it comes out from the factory. I immediately found myself more consistent in braking and the force that I apply is the same every lap. I’m not here to say that this must be the way but for sure for me it was a massive improvement if I have to compare to the clubsport V3 i had with a longer pedal travel. BTW there are a lot of customizations for the heusinkveld so maybe I’ll take a look

Regarding GT3 brake pressure (in KG), I've heard numbers close to 180kg at high speed to get an ABS christmas tree. It seems to depend on the car. The Nissan does have a very long travel but seems hard too. On some other onboard cameras, you will spot the driver's shoe bending under the heavy forces that's being put on the pedal face, it's no joke. Since G forces are always brought up, to my knowledge it seems to help for about 20% of the pressure. Now, if the brakes are lighter - like in, say, McLaren GT4 - I can see why drivers don't really like servo brakes if the maximum is ~70kg, but you have 30kg of G forces coming forward as you're braking. Should feel like very minimal control, for them.

Now make a video on how all sim rigs need 100nm DD wheels to make it realistic...... My T-LCM is set to softest setting to come close to a daily car, unfortunately travel is like 1/3 of a real car....

I tried a load cell, no travel brake pedal and hated it because it's nothing like my real car. I found a progressive pedal with a decent amount of travel to be much more comfortable and controllable. I also think the "it's easier to tell how hard you're pressing vs where you're pressing to on a linear pedal" in relation to braking is a load of bs as long as you have enough resistance in the pedal. The throttle pedal is usually a linear spring so how come people don't complain about knowing how much throttle you're applying?

Yep, I've been arguing this for a while. I've seen pedal cams before, of course, but I was very glad to see McLaren bring it back with Lando just to prove the stiff pedal crowd wrong. I also think the fixation on load cells is a bit misplaced. A rubber block with progressive pressure requirements to move the pedal further, along with a potentiometer or hall sensor, is a proxy for pressure. There might be advantages to load cells which measure pressure directly, but the familiar claim that it's about muscle memory is not one of them.

Your points are valid and I will admit i came into watching this video with alot of skepticism given the title. I agree it is driver preference. What I think you got wrong was how the race cars systems work. Cup cars and gt4 cars may still use a brake booster I could be wrong but pretty much every race car uses manual brakes and not using a brake booster. They will have separate master cylinders on the brake pedal usually mounted on the pedal box. So the only amount of movement your pedal can travel is length of the push rod. Now these can be changed and swapped out given track and or driver preference like you said. Other than that...was a great video and enjoyed it 👍

And the pedal pressure. Apparently in F1 is huge because they have no power assist.

Brake travel and feel is driver preference, just like seat position and mirror placement....and countless other adjustable things in a race car. Set up your rig for you and enjoy your racing.

Another factor is they are not strong enough to use the full brake without the force from slowing down pushing them harder on the brake.

Actually, I would love to break and accelerate with the wheel. If the shifter pedals would be analog, I would use the right one to accelerate and the left one to break. My legs would be free ;)

Brundle mentioned in austrian grand prix that f1 brakes are not connected with wires to the brakes.

I got good travel and strength/smoothness with V3 pedals, the HPK, and a damper set firmly. I just recently added the damper and its more interesting than reviewers have led to believe.

As (plentifully) mentioned already, hybrid cars have Brake by Wire with an ECU intervening/interfacing - F1 has a traditional front circuit though; WEC had full BBW. For information on that and a glimpse into racecar braking system design (no booster, racecar components and constraints), see "Formula One brake system, Explained!" from the Merc F1 team

a good topic to cover actually, I've gone through so many reviewers and many say "i like it short and stiff"......that didnt sound right. Anyway, I never get to the real reason why they pick it that way. Admitting that I have never been in a race car, so the only relatable reference for me is my car, which has alot of travel. Though the I have not upgrade the performance kit on my V3 pedals yet, so I cannot say my thoughts on each combo yet. Would love to see someone does a comparison that it is more relatable than just Fanatec's chart.

Meanwhile: **Barry Roland rolling in his garage.

The V8 Supercar heel-toe clip makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside

People are using this video to try and justify how their long, soft pedal travel isn't unrealistic. What they don't realise is that Lando is applying 200 - 450 pounds of force to get that travel. Mauro Piccoli, chief of Brembo's racing department: "Alonso stomps on the pedal harder and generates more pressure on the system, we are talking of a pedal pressure in the 130 - 140 kg range (+/- 285 - 310 lbs). It's similar to figures for Lewis or Jenson but Fernando is less aggressive. He likes to use a large diameter pump with a very short pedal. Pedal travel is in the order of 30 - 40 mm, three and a half times that of the pump. Felipe prefers to manage lower pressures but as far as corner entry, there are no great differences." "The most difficult is at turn 10, where the drivers come in at 328 km/h (203.8 mph) and apply the brakes for 3.04 seconds, during which the vehicles travel the 136 meters (446 feet) that are essential to bring the speed down to 79 km/h (49 mph). The load on the brake pedal is 201 kg (443.1 lbs) and deceleration is 5.4 Gs." - Brembo official website

I have a super short pedal travel because the fanatec V3 sucks otherwise. It's an old set of pedal works perfectly and was competitively price at the time. Asetek has no real excuse, to charge that much and not having more flexibility in pedal travel is insulting.

Braking has been my problem in simracing ever since I started. Currently I have T LCM pedals and I need twice more of travels, I don't care how it is in a race car. What people forget is that you have much more information when driving real car, braking in real car you get g-force that tells you how much you are braking and you can adjust from that. In sim racing you don't have that, only force of your leg and your eyes to tell you how is your braking doing.

Basic premise is silly. Brake pedal behaviour can be tuned to the driver. Especially with control by wire setups