Landsknecht Emporium Günther LANGES MESSER Sword Review 

Thank you Matt for this fair review of Günther! It's good to hear you like the piece and use on a regular basis :) We'd like to give some reaction for your really constructive critique! When you received Günther, we were getting a lot of feedback from our customers about the sharp corners and started to gradually round them down. It took some time to find the balance between comfort and keeping the aesthetic. Since that point, we got almost no complaints about sharp corners. Rusting was an issue about which we were unable to wrap our head around for quite some time. It took quite a lot of testing to find the source, which was the wood glue we used. We changed the brand quite some time ago, no issues reported with this since then. The warp in the blade is a problem we're still fighting with. The heat treatment is done by a partner of ours, who does everything to prevent issues like this. Furthermore, we inspect and straighten each blade after heat treatment in our workshop and do one more inspection after assembling the piece. We had some major issues with curved and warped blades in the past, after which we searched for another company to make the heat treatment. In result, problems with straightness happen a lot less and we intend to do the heat treatment ourselves, which hopefully will get rid of these issues completely. Thank you again for the kind but fair review, we hope to hear from you soon! :)

Historical note: The Spoon Makers guild was also envious of many guilds. the master forgers of the fork makers guild guarded the secret of prongs. The Spoon makers to get around the laws made spoons with prongs and called it the spork.. : )

If its oak wood it could be the tannins reacting with the steel, tannins are acidic to some degree. Walnut is also full of tannins, which is why the leaves tend to stick around for a long time before they break down. Ash, maple or spruce tends to be of a lesser degree but I am unsure, I'd have to go dig out my reference book on tree-acidity-content. As for glues, yeah some glues can be very acidic thou I don't know how long it lasts, aka curing time or how that chemistry would work out.

Tod once mentioned that you have to have a scabbard made out of wood with a low tannin content, otherwise the wood itself will corrode the blade. That might be the issue

See, if most people on the internet simply stated “this sword cuts well,” we wouldn’t take them at their word. But Matt here knows his shit. If he says it cuts well, it does.

Their motto is awesome. “We sell violence & violence accessories”

"Günther" is a quite normal German male name (although it's the older form... I suppose a quite popular name back then) 😋❤️ Btw, love your really good pronunciation!

I just cut with one of these yesterday! My friend got one with the sheath. Not only is it a gorgeous sword, it cuts like a dream through anything you put in front of it. Very lively and controllable with no shortage of authority. So. Much. Fun.

Literally shut off Friends and opened RU-vid to see Gunther in the thumbnail. Was very confused for a good 15 seconds there.

Ohhh! Now I get why it's called nagel. It's not just finger protection it's also the nail that fixes the crossguard to the blade. I always wondered why it's called that. Much sense!

Matt: "I want to keep this review relatively short." Also Matt: makes a 24 minute review.

I've studied various "styles" of Martial Arts and over the years I've become "pretty good" with the katana. A friend of mine who subscribes to your channel told me if I really want to know about the art of sword fighting and the European weapons, take a look at one of your presentations. Now, needless to say I am also a subscriber and working on a plan to include your presentations in our classes. RESPECT & HONOR.

I’ve actually been saving up for this exact sword for a bit & it’s really nice to finally have your review of it

Gunther will kill Ross with that messer and finally he will have Rachel all for himself.

Just received mine, no warping on the blade whatsoever. They are also now lining the scabbard with felt to mitigate issues there. Thank you so much for this review as it helped me purchase my first ever sword and I am IN LOVE. Shelled out some extra dough for a beautifully engraved blue scabbard and a knucklebow on the cross guard, along with a beautiful little byknife that fits in the scabbard as well. Great work from Landsknecht Emporium!

Do you know the Kind of wood wich is used for the scabbard? Oak Was used for tanning be ause of the acid in the Bark and Partly in the wood itself. So maybe the leather or more probably the wood itself are attacking the Steel. I made a lamellar armor with plantbased tanned leather.... Where the leather meets the Steel it rusts very very fast.

Awesome review as always dude :D - I placed an order for one of Landsknecht's other models about three months ago (a sharp-version Karl M5B with the same scabbard and baldric as yours). The heads-up about the potential issues with the blade twist and corrosion issues is hugely appreciated! :D

Great review, as always, appreciate your honesty and pertinent remarks about sword, sheath and manufacturer :-)

Always happy to see landsknecht stuff. Would like to see a good Katzbalger replica.

I just watched Reclaiming the Sword on Amazon Prime. It was pretty cool seeing a young Matt Easton. Loved the facial hair Matt, you should bring it back for at least one video.

Please reach out to Alec Steele! I'd love to see you and Tod teach him some pointers.

Thank you for this review! I didn't know about Landsknecht Emporium until Skallagrim video in April. I was trying to find a Condor knife & tool two handed Grosse Messner. I was quite upset that I waited too long from 2016 to get Albion Knecht. When I looked at Condor and Honshu Boshin, they didn't have a distal taper. I had a one handed sword that was between 3 and 5 kilograms. It was good steel and hardening, but it was way too heavy and clumsy! I soon watched videos on Landsknecht Emporium swords and since I am interested in Messers, Skallagrim sold me on acting fast since I missed the Knecht. I asked LE to make Gustav and Gunter for me and I will finally have a genuine and useable sword in the two of them. It's not enough to have a sword, it's gotta be hardened and handle well!!! I'm very grateful!!I don't know if I will ever find a two handed, but for now I'm well enough off. Perhaps a Buckler wouldn't be amiss! Your videos and information are appreciated!!!

I just checked out their website. Thanks for this video, you really got me into this producer. Their work looks great and they even offer variants of their blades suitable for HEMA training at a pretty decent prive for the quality delivered. I also like the possibility to get the exact same blade in a sharp version to do cutting tests etc. with the same weapon I use for training and sparring.

Hi Mat, I like your video. Just to correct you: DW-40 is not an oil. It is really only a water-displacement treatment (hence the DW). You might want to use a light machine oil instead to protect the blade inside the scabbard.

I've been flirting with buying one of these for the past year after watching your other messer videos. perhaps this review will nudge me enough. greatly appreciate it!

I have a LE Gottfried (sharp, oak scales, with scabbard and 2-point baldric), along with a LE Medium Bauernwehr (left-handed). They are truly things of beauty and feel so alive in the hand! Absolutely want more of their products. Short of a high-end custom piece, I can't think of any company I would rather buy a messer from.

The sword and scabbard problem has been about ever since these items have been paired together!!! The hardest part was getting the rich to pay for the equipment....

Wonderful review

Nice review. I've got an Adorian on order, Günther's smaller brother. It'll be my first real well designed sword.

Would be interesting to see the other two "langmesser" reviewed. Comparing their handling and cutting would be interesting to me. Also i have read something about problems with their finish and optics, mostly that they are made too rough.

A lot of comments on this already, but as to the oxidation on the blade during storage, here is a clear explanation. This is a completely reasonable process that will always happen when carbon steal is stored in close proximity to vegetable tanned leather or tannin rich wood. Anecdotally, this is a common concern for knives, and it makes it somewhat amusing that it is shared by the "Long Knife." Hang them next to each other but not inside or touching, or coating the blade in beeswax before storage would be a reasonably effective way to reduce the effect as well.

Really thinking of getting their gustav messer after this review. People have been speaking highly of their quality.

I've always argued that the reason messers became associated with common people is due to the construction. The first sword I ever made was a messer. I had no idea what I was doing, but that sword has stood up to an insane amount of abuse. The thick spine and full tang (a little thicker than necessary on mine) make for a very robust weapon. Yes, there were exquisite, masterfully crafted messers, but this construction lends itself very well to mass production by less skilled smiths (like me), which brings the price down, making it more affordable for lower class individuals.

Thanks for this! With no good options for a Sabre, I’ve had my eye on the Gottfried with a knuckle guard for a while now.

Best messer review ever seen!!!

I also have this messer and I'm very happy with it. It seems I was more lucky when it comes to warping (mine is straight), but less lucky with the initial sharpness (wasn't particularly sharp when it arrived).

Thanks for making this video

Shit, now waiting time for them will become even longer than it is now.

I can't wait till mine (Gottfried) gets to me in November.

I just noticed the warp in mine. Had it for years, and just noticed it. I find it funny

I have noticed the pattern corrosion issues on both leather and synthetic sheaths. Some do, some don’t. I dissected a couple . I am convinced that some of the modern adhesives change over time and become corrosive over time.

My man out here grinding

The knuckle bow is cool too!

The problem with the myths/theories of the history of the Messer is that it might have started out as a way around the law for a cheap sword like Messer and then it gained popularity and became more widely used. So it is really hard to disprove such a theory and it is equally hard to prove it.

I had a rust problem with my selfmade scabbard as well, which is also wooden core and leather. After that I also put some oil in the scabbard and the problem never returned. I believe, it's just a thing for wood+leather scabbards, that there is a "evil" micro climate inside it, when not doing something against it.

Got a Gunther from them the other week, it was actually one of the first they had produced with a knucklebow, and it is quite a nice blade, and the price is good too. I'll have to check for warping on my blade, didn't actually ever see any issues but then again I didn't study it enough. Also, do you think the scabbards wood core oxidizing the blade is a result of the climate?

Matt! Love the page and content. I’m interested in starting a HEMA club where I live in the states. Could you recommend a good place to purchase trainers? Particularly basket hilt style swords with shields and daggers? Thanks!

Hi Matt , Rather than WD40 try using ballistol on the leather works on both steel , leather, wood. Literally you can spray it over everything Best thing you can have in the cupboard. Also chrome tanned leather can cause rust , vegetable tanned or brain tanned leather works best.

I do not store my swords in their sheaths. But on one occasion I took one of my swords from its scabbard and saw rust on it. But the thick and foggy layer of protective lanoline was still intact. On further inspection I saw it wasn't rust. It was red dirt. Because some mud wasp had made a nest in the scabbard.

Would you consider doing a guide of things you wish you knew before you got your first sword? It would be great to hear from someone like you who has seen a lot of good bad and ugly and the lessons you learned in one compiled place. Things like what glue are used in the sheath, I had no idea I even needed to consider that! If this exists please point me to it :)

Mine just shipped today

I have one coming in September- very glad to be forewarned about the rusting issues! I am hopeless with metalwork, so I wouldn't have known what to do. What do you think of the knucklebows? Are they historical? Do they impede the hand movement when cutting/fencing at all? Thanks!

As always, your candor is appreciated. Any suggestions for a good backsword of modern manufacture?

I might be able to help. I make leather sheaths for my knives. I use wood glue as i dont like the the strength of contact cement. Because wood glue(depending on the brand) is water soluble it cqn absorb moisture from the air and pass that moisture to the blade. If the manufacturers used a water soluble glue to glue up the wood of the scabbard, or to glue the leather onto the scabbard, or both, then i would say thats your problem. I would suspect it is from the wood since the oxidation is on the edges.

i had the same issue with my scabbard but just over oiling my sword and allowing that to soak into the scabbard solved the issue completely

One or two messers appear illustrated in _De Re Metallica_ by Georgius Agricola, a German author on geology and prospecting. One illustration in Book II shows various methods of prospecting including dowsing with forked twigs, test trenches and pits. The messer is around the size of a langmesser, with forward coil quillion, rivited scales with a metal cap on a downward hooked butt. Interestingly one detail is that the end of the scabbard is missing, torn off. It is leaned against a tree with other gear. Proper arming swords are also shown in various illustrations, never worn by more than one individual.

I got mine very recently and they have rounded off the edges on the crossguard you were talking about Will have to look out for the scabbard thing, thanks!

Concerning the rust issue, having looked into it it seems the scabbard are either ply cored or built up from veneers, linen wrapped then leather bound after that. If they have used veneers or ply made from wood with high tannin content (eg oak/walnut) then this is likely to be a cause of the rust. The other cause will be the tannins used to tan the leather, quebracho bark is one of the key ingredients in this process, I use it for ebonising oak with a iron/ vinegar mix, put simply tannin and steel are not good friends. For those wanting to buy one of these, or one of their other products I would avoid opting for the oak or walnut options both are high tannin woods and will rust the areas they come in contact with. The Pear & Boxwood options are all the best choicesas they have low tannin content, but are a quit a mark up.Beech has higher tannin than both, these, but lower than the other two options. See if you can get them to start making grips from Ash, as that has a very low tannin content.

The same goes for handguns. NEVER store a handgun in a leather holster long term. The chemicals used to tan the leather corrode blued steel. Stainless steel may even stain a bit.

Whats up Matt, im about to get one of these Gustavs. I did credit you as one of the devils advocate for me buying from them. >:)

Normally I would say it was the wood that caused the rusting because they used a high tannin wood like oak, but in this case I don’t think that’s what it is. I think you’re probably right that it’s the dye in the leather. Since it’s only along the blades edges where the dye material would more easily get on the inside of the scabbard (since that is were the two pieces of wood meet and would allow dye to seep in potentially) and because where the guard meets the scabbard is leather (I think it is unlikely that the tannins would work their way through the leather like that)

Had the same rust issue with my arms and armor dagger I bought a long time ago. The leather sheath was corroding the blade, and I live in a desert climate.

I would guess chromium-tanned leather was used in the scabbard (chromium alum or chromium sulfate is used to create the leather). It's a more supple leather and easier to use (you'll often see it used for the tongue of leather boots), but it'll wreck blades and it's not great for your skin either, but it's the most common type of leather in use. Vegetable-tanned leather needs to be used for blades, but it's stiff stuff and a very thin top-grain cut would have to be used to not have to break the leather in before trying to construct something with it. Vegetable-tanned leather is already 3x the price of chromium-tanned leather and it takes half a year to produce compared to the few days of chromium-tanned, so thin cuts of the most desirable part of the leather would drive the price up even more.

Aside from saving a bit of metal is there a practical difference in performance between a peened tang and the Messer riveted scale construction? IE the difference between the rounded vs more rectangular shape of the grip.

Although I am in no way an expert at this subjetc, the explanation that the guild system prohibitet knife-makers from making and selling swords sounds very reasonable to me. Simply because as a german myself this sounds like the most german thing to do.

So, should I own a Messer that carries one of my names? Decisions, decisions.... By the way your second pronunciation of 'Nagel' was quite correct.

To me it seems clear that that crossguard extensions with the sharp corners serves as extra protection for the thumb when using the thumb-on-the-back-grip. I read here in the reply from LE that they started rounding those corners on the hilt, but I doubt that they would present an issue when used as is mostly shown in the manuscripts: with a handshake grip, thumb on the blade or quite commonly thumb on the back grip. Hammer grip, which would bring your hand in conflict with those edges is rarely shown (never in Talhoffer or Lecküchner, to my knowledge).

Gotta get me one of those.

I think what we often constitute to laws, or cultural changes to sword designs and tool designs etc is in fact just new tooling methods and new machineries being developed. I would bet that the development of the langes messer may be a by product of somekind of forge rolling tool. Full tangs are really much more of a by product of ''sheet metal'' style work than forging. Plus the roller itself will give you a consistent enough flatness on both sides of the raw steel bar which the sword is made from to attach scales to it without any real need for filing or hammering.

The shape of the Lange Messer came about as most items and that is,(Fashion!) especially if it does what it says on the tin!!.....

Ah yes, my favourite sword. Hope it's good lol, I'm still on its waiting list.

5:00 In some texts, they says that in Germany and some other parts of Eastern Europe, laws had been passed where each house hold had to keep and maintained an armoury containing 1 armour, 1 shield, 1 spear, bow and arrows, and one sword for every able man. That way, everyone would be equipped should the city come under siege. Some cities would give hefty fines and others would even banished people who didn't follow this law, everybody is responsible for the defense of the city. Swordsmiths guilds realised this and decided to charge higher prices for their swords but their definition of a sword was based on the hilt construction while the city was based on the length of the blade. So people who had less money went to knifesmiths instead and ask for longer bladed knives "Messer"

shotgun oil is really good for this corrosion issue

The issue with the scabbard could be its made of oak as the tannins in oak can react and cause steel to rust

Cover their dussack. Roughly the same price point, and I don't recall you doing dussacks before.

Haha,just remembered Gunther and the sunshine girls

I say it's the wood of the scabbard. I made a scabbard with poplar before and it left oxidation on my albion. So I start lining the wood with wool and lanolin.

Man I've wanted the Adorian model since I first found out about them. Good to know a scabbard isn't included in the price. My goofy ass always assumes they are.

Would you recommend the United Cutlery Honshu "Broadsword" ?

You mention that there is a slight warp in the blade but the sword still cuts very well. I also have cut with factory second blades that had warps, and they still cut well. This really begs the question: was this historically common? It seems like it must have been and many slightly warped or waved blades would have still been sold at a discount and poorer soldiers on a budged could still make decent use out of such a sword. It would be a interesting topic to address. It also would not be surprising that today few if any such original examples exist as what has been preserved are often high quality expensive swords, not an imperfect common soldiers sword with defects.

Do they offer left handed version of this sword?

Rinse out the inside of the with mild baking soda solution, bake the moisture out of the scabbard, oil the inside.

Is it possible that the blade got a bit of a bow in it as a result of an impact when cutting with it? I am trying to sus out if you are certain it had that bow from the factory or if it happened after?

can you provide a link for those round shields you have in the back there?

I imagine Messers were around simply for practical reasons and probably because of taste. I can see some upsides to a Messer over a Sword: - No pommel-issues (unscrewing, losening) - less edge-maintanance because there's only one edge to keep in good shape and sharpening a one edged blade might be easier - utility. Since it's basically a big knife it should work as a knife aswell ;-) - might be cheaper Fashion certainly also was an important factor.

Nice butter knife there Herr Easton.

Here's a thought about why messers were both different and ubiquitous in period. Sword geeks are now as they always have been. How many (of us) sword geeks are there out there who see a new style of rapier hilt or a saber of a slightly different curve to the one we have, and immediately have to have the new thing? Collectors are collectors and always have been.

Can you point me towards a period treatise on messers? Specifically one that covers fighting techniques using lang messers and grosse messers and translated into English. Thank you.

Hmmm looking for a Messer. From this video and now looking at the Landsknecht Emporium website.

The wood might simply not have been completely dry as well as the tannin comments. Wood takes time to dry after it is cut. Even after you buy it from a hardware store or a specialty lumber seller. Sometimes a plank can take months to completely dry out. If it isn't dry upon the creation of the scabbard, and a sword is put into it, well, that moisture has to go somewhere.

That is a pretty good price. "Honey!!! I'm going to spend some money!!!"

He's wearing a Casio F-91W. Great watch.

I am german. Formerly there was a rights difference among german people up to 1810s. The highest class was the nobility , up to 1496 ( Reichstag/ Imperial diet? of Worms), knights had been no part of nobility, then as ,low nobility). Next class had been the Free Men. In rural areas of Germany, after 1500 the number of Free Men was near zero, but the men living in a town remained Free Men. In theory, the free men could, like noblemen or knights, buy weapons they want, but carry it only occacionly. But living in a town, being a free man, doesn' t mean that you have money! So rich townsmen, especially the ,Patrizier' with knights wealth, could buy weapons of best quality. A mid/ high rank official,or a good earning Meister( master craftsman) perhaps also. But the Ackerbürger/ field citizen, the ordinary craftsmen/ Gesellen or ,hands'? They could only buy cheap weapons as private weapon. So i doubt that lower class of townsmen private owned more than a Wehr, in this case a bowiesized knife. A sidenote especially for US readers of my comment: In Germany a settlement of every size can be a Stadt/ town, when the settlement gets Stadtrecht( town rights). Today villages can get townrights from state governemet , when the Gemeinde/ village has more than 10000 inhabitants and ....., towns with fewer inhabitants got their townrights mostly in HRE time. Once the townright was the allowness to fortify the village. So even today every mayor of a town has in Germany a ,golden key' to lock the no more or never existing town gates. In rural areas most german men up to 1810s had been unfree/ Leibeigene ( wordly translated about: The ones, i own). In old germanic days, only free vor semifree men could own weapons, so i have some doubts about legaly armed rural men. Up to the great rebellion wave in 1525 german semifree men could buy cheaper weapons including ,Lange Messer' when they had the money, but the majority of unfree and poor men? With allowness of a noble knight some rural men had weapons to act as local guard/ militia. During the revolts of 1525 the Haufen of rebells had been, even with weapons captured in castles or small town weapon house, mostly not wellarmed, and often had selfmade weapons like spiked clubs. After the rebellion the rulers took away as much weapons as possible , it needed centuries, that ordinary man in 19th Germany again could legally own own weapons. So i have doubts that there had been so much ,Lange Messer' owned by ordinary germans

Simon is a great fella, I would still run away from him

Landsknecht should only be selling zweihanders and old timey parachute pants.

Have the same problems with rust with both of my messer from landsknecht emporium.

I accidently deleted my reaction but thanks for youre reply about the double edge that i was wrong i dont wanne spread bs

So maybe the idea of the “commoners sword“ came from the Bauernwehr, and with the Messer being a kind of related to the Bauernwehr they just get thrown into the same pot?

I might get one for my wife she loves a big chopper😬

Hallow pins? You mean roll pins? Makes sense as they are forgiving on a press fit and springiness will keep them in place.