Large Diesel Generator - Shuts Down With An ERROR | Can I fix It? 

Thanks for that Morgan. I think he's got a 3 phase lathe he's planning to use it on, but I'll pass your comment on to him. Thanks again for your input 🙂👍

I saw someone using a phase balancer, not sure how much they cost though. Depending on the load they can be a little pricey ;)

I think it's mainly going to be used for the 3 phase output, and possibly on the odd occasion it might be used for 240v, as he already has single phase mains at the farm, but not 3 phase.

Not that he will use it for single phase, but that alternator does have the wiring configuration listed for single phase output, if down the road someone wanted that. But that controller would have to be set up for single phase as well, but those controllers are super easy to program and reconfigure. Most of the gens I have dealt with can go up to a 50% imbalance before it cautions against it. But they are also much bigger then this.

Especially in such a small machine... You can "safelly" have 30% of unballanced load. In order to use an 3 phase alternator with 2 phase load, you can change the winding layout from star to zig zag. Considerer that you´ll lose bit more than 1/3 of the total power, but you would lost it anyway leaving one floating phase. This way you wont damage the alternator.

Thanks Paul 👍it's pretty much the approach I use when looking at most things, I've worked on things from thermal cameras , ultrasound machines all the way to tractors and now generators 😂😂

Thanks for that repair GOD

No problem 👍

Nice one Morgan, glad we managed to get it sorted 👍

These type of hired generators are usually used as back up too so don't always run for long periods or at full load so that can contribute to the carbon build up. Glad you got a good one though and it's now working!

Thanks Rival son, I would have been more at home if the fault was on the control panel, that's more along the lines of things I normally repair (circuit boards under a microscope) but I have a go at pretty much anything from a thermal camera, to a farmers bale wrapper the other day (no video on that as I just got a random knock on the door from a local farmer who was in a bit of a pickle).

Good idea Bob👍

Hey Mr. Watch out using silicone. It is conductive ..

​@@IANHANDSit's conductive??

Thanks Morten, yes it was a bit odd. I've no idea why someone would have even been in there? Unless they replaced that board?

@@BuyitFixit yeah only explanation as to why the wires where in the wrong place, goes to show how import remembering to put things back where you took them 😁

Thanks Philip👍. First time I've worked on one so it was a bit of a learning curve😂

Thanks for that, I'll pass the info on to my mate who owns it 👍I think he recently serviced it after sorting out the top end, but I'm not sure if he added any of those filters or not. I just got told it had an electrical problem and it was beyond his remit 😂😂😂

Just for curiosity, can it run on fully synthetic used in diesel car engine?

@@edmondhung6097 Putting full synthetic oil in a generator like this isn't necessary. Just change the oil and filters every 500 hours of running or less, and it will be well serviced throughout its life.

@@BuyitFixit.

Thanks 👍and good spot on the throttle linkage. This was probably the first time I've looked at a faulty generator, I usually repair smaller things and often down to component level such as a FLIR infrared camera multimeter, or Milwaukee power tools.

Thanks Mike 👍

Thanks 👍yes first time looking at a generator, but I learned a lot! and we managed to fix it 🙂

Thanks Vince 🙂👍

Thank you 👍

Thanks 👍 Yes, it's hard to know what went on with it previously. I've not had much to do with generators prior to this, so it was a good experience as I now know a lot more than I did.

Thanks 👍Yes it was the first time looking at anything like this, so it was all new to me. I learned a lot so if I ever need to look at another at least I've gained some experience now 🙂

Thanks 👍

Thanks 👍 Yes it's the first time I've ever looked at one, so it was a little out of my depth, but I have a bit of a knack at looking at problems and working my way through them. Thanks for commenting 🙂

Yeah that was the only dumb thing he did. But as he says, this is the first time he's looked at one of these so fair enough. I was sure it would trip the over speed cut out on the controller which it did. But he should have tested the frequency with his meter before trying this because if the frequency was correct then engine speed would not be the problem.

@@johnrauner2515 He showed the frequency on the control panel and it was a bit high for my liking (53.something Hz). I'd expect a generator to run above mains frequency but not by almost 4 Hz.

Thanks, yes my first experience with one and I learned a ton! Like the RPM controls the frequency, and the AVR the voltage. Sometimes it's not about the fix but what you also learn on the journey 👍

😂😂😂Thanks 👍

Thank you 👍

Thanks Rory. Once I knew the voltage from the actual main generator part wasn't correct, I knew the problem had to be around there. At least it didn't require a new board, which is what I had been thinking it might have been.

If you know the general principles of how something works, you can isolate the fault by elimination and using the good old mk1 eyeball to spot things like the wiring diagram on the inside of the cover

It's just a case of looking for the bleeding obvious based on the clues in front of you. He sniffed about by running it to see what clues it presented and then he followed the obvious one. Which then led to the next. There were only 3 or 4 steps he needed to take to find the fault and fix it. And incorrect voltage suggested to me right at the start somebody had been messing with it who shouldn't have been. To coincidental that all 3 phases had exactly the same wrong voltage. The only way that could happen is because the exciter adjustment or input had gone bad or been tampered with. It looks like this one doesn't have independent voltage regulators for each phase, just a single exciter adjustment for all 3 and I'd assume the board can adjust that according to load, but it looks like that adjustment will effect all 3 phases. So you will need to be wary of load imbalance because the phase with less than the rest will see it's voltage climb. This would also be an excellent stand by generator for the guys house. I know he only has single phase, but it wouldn't be that hard to load balance his house well enough for the generator to handle. Keep the single phase switchboard he has and put contactors in circuit after it to switch the loads off the mains switchboard to the 3 phases of the generator. And it looks like the controller is already set up for automatic running so it can control the switch over to and from generator as the mains go down and come back up again.

But if he's going to do this he'll have to fit a trickle charger to keep the battery topped up. Simple enough to do but feed it off the switchboard, not post contactors. That way the trickle charger only runs off the mains. Most likely the generator charges it's battery when running so you don't want that and a trickle charger running at once, it will confuse both of them.

Thanks John 👍yes the battery charges when running. I checked the battery voltage before starting and while running to make sure it was charging and it was around 13.8v when running 👍

Thanks Mr JSV👍

Thank you 👍It's the first time working on a generator, I usually work on small electronic items and often down to component level, you might like the Milwaukee rocket light video I just did where I try to explain my thoughts and how to troubleshoot although I do try and do that on pretty much all of my videos 🙂

@@BuyitFixit Will watch! These are the bedside kind of videos which are delightful to just watch, even if you don't have your own generator to fix and find reference for 🙃

@@OH8EFI I just searched your callsign, I like your PI setup! I recently did a tear down and some poking around a rs41 radiosonde too :)

@@BuyitFixit Ah lovely! Thank you! I'm personally quite far away to fetch any RS41s but will do a run for it some time soon. Gonna try and repurpose it for ham radio stuff possible.

I haven't repurposed it or anything but I do show how to get into the hidden setup menus with a USB >TTL converter with the password. I also have a ham licence although I've not used it much. I only have a 10w license and we live in a valley. I did have a play with WSPR which worked and I hit Australia and Antarctica :)

Thanks 👍I now know a lot more about generators now too 🙂

Thanks, yes I did too 🙂👍

Thanks 👍yes 🙂

Thanks John, got a 3d printer but waiting of parts, couple more Milwaukee items, a n expensive Harmon Kardon bluetooth speaker, and whatever else happens inbetween 😂😂😂

Thank you 👍

Thanks Cucumber Man 👍

Thanks Lee👍My first time looking at a generator so I now know a lot more about them as I usually work on much smaller things like game consoles etc but I'll have a go at pretty much anything. I've repaired quite a lot of stuff I've had no prior experience with 🙂. I know my friend has serviced the generator with new oil filters etc so hopefully it should last him, and I now know about the AVR so if there are voltage issues in the future that will be the first on my list. Thanks again for your comments 👍

Thanks Cajun 👍yes frequency is via engine speed as I found out when revving it 🙂

Thanks John 👍

Thanks 👍

Thanks for that, at the time I wasn't even aware of the AVR or how these devices worked, I learned a lot from the experience so I know better now if I have to look at a similar device again 👍 The stuff I normally work on is more board level stuff, I recently did a video on a control panel for a similar generator..

I think you are thinking of residual magnetism.

​@@ickipooi think you think about jakoling😂😂😂

Thanks 👍Yes I too think that is a very plausible conclusion of what happened.

Thanks👍Yes indeed 😂

Thanks 👍

Thanks 👍I might have a look next time I'm over there, as I might do a video on a baler he has that appears to have a CAN bus problem.

Thanks :)

Thanks 👍Yes, also I've never worked on such a device, but I learned a lot, so it was good experience 🙂

Yes he is 🙂👍

Thanks John 👍

Thanks Patrick 👍Good advice.

Thanks Joseph👍

Thanks 👍honestly I'll have a go at anything that's broken. I may not be successful all of the time, but it's a learning curve. I now know a lot more about generators that I did and I would now be a lot more confident working on one, and understand them a lot better now 👍

Thanks Chris 👍

Totally agree, I did exactly that when repairing a 3D printer recently (video later today).

Thanks Rival Son. It was the first time looking at anything like this so I was a little out of my depth, but I learned a lot so it was a good experience. I usually repair PCBs down to component level like the Milwaukee impact driver I just repaired. Thanks again for your comment 👍

@@BuyitFixit I use these controllers on a weekly basis and maintain generators but this was a fault I hadn't seen. Nice work 👍

Thanks Rival Son👍

Or more than once 😂😂😂

Good tip 👍I usually do this with my small 5kva backup generator I use at home. I also run it up first and wait for the voltage/frequency to stabilise before switching the breaker to the load on.

Thanks Gregory, and good point. I didn't expect it to be a problem with the actual generator itself and was hoping it was something to do with the display / control panel as that's the sort of stuff I'm more used to working on. I was not really prepared for working on higher voltage stuff, although I was being extra careful you are very much correct. I could have borrowed some welding gauntlets or rubber gloves perhaps which might have helped minimise any problems. Thank you again for commenting👍 Best wishes Mick

Thanks Steve 👍yes I'll have a go at pretty much anything 🙂it's already not working after all, so if I can't fix it the end result is pretty much the same.

Thanks Ralph, yes it the display didn't come out very well on the video, bit of a shame...

Thanks Jonka, I'll have a check the next time I'm over at his farm. I think he has a couple of more things for me to look at 👍

Good point 👍

Thanks Craig 👍

Thanks 👍

Very true! I'm still not sure why someone had even been in there and even thought that someone had purposely tried to sabotage it, possibly to get it cheaper at the auction...still a bit of a mystery.

No no no You can't make it "idiotproof" for idiots just get smarter.

The manual fine adjuster probably did not come from the factory. It looks like an optional extra added later, it does not match the "look and feel" of the main unit.

Yes agree, I think on the plate I removed with the diagram it had *optional or it might have been on the datasheet I downloaded. I think a link is supposed to be fitting across those pins if it's not installed.

yes, that manual trimmer adjustment is not necessary. The manual for the avr you downloaded should have a procedure for tuning the avr

Thanks Mark, we had been thinking the same 👍

Or possibly the original was burnt and they could only make out the first 2 bands? I did a repair a few videos back on a switch mode PSU turned out that the main IC had failed.

First time I've ever looked at a generator, I normally repair electronics down to component level (check some of my other videos). I wasn't sure how the voltage regulation worked or if it was a problem with the control panel, but as you say experience helps greatly. I was actually hoping it was problem on the panel as that's the sort of thing I'd normally work on. If I ever look at another now, I've got a lot more idea and gained experience so I'm sure I'd be able to diagnose the problem a lot easier 👍

Thanks for that. I've not had much experience with generator but love learning new stuff 👍

@@BuyitFixit smallenginemechanic is a great channel to learn more about diesel generators

@@BuyitFixit james condon for gasoline generators

@@dragonfireproductions790 Thanks👍yes a friend mentioned his channel to me yesterday 🙂

@@BuyitFixit those 2 are great learning resources

Not sure what you mean buddy?

You want to try lifting it 😂😂😂

@@BuyitFixit 😅 I have lifted them but with 2 people and a dolly haha.

@roybm3124 😂😂😂😂

I don't fancy trying it 😂it sounds pretty dodgy.

@@BuyitFixit I did it back in the 80s and it worked very well. Amazing how quickly you can boil the water. I don’t think there was any health and safety back then 😂. Thanks for the video.

Thanks for the info, it's the first time I've really had anything to do with generators so it was all new to me. Totally agree that someone either put the wires in the wrong place or tried to get it cheap at the auction. Thanks again for commenting :)

We use generators like this at work (on comms sites) for backup. The USB port connects to a PC and you can download/run Deep Sea Electronic Configuration Suite to configure various parameters and setup the alarm dry contacts etc...

Thanks for that John, I was wondering what it was for. I'm quite curious about things such as that. I had a solar inverter that I repaired and needed to adjust a setting but the company was most unhelpful so I resorted to reverse engineering the software and wrote my own service password generator 😂 I did a video on that too.

Yes, I guess someone was trying to get it cheap at auction! It was the first time I've ever looked at something like that as I normally work on PCBs and such. I learned a lot though so it was a good experience. I since looked at a control panel for one of these which was more the type of work I normally do. I managed to extract the pin code and figure out how to change the hours etc if you haven't seen that one.

@BuyitFixit yup I've seen people do that and it's shameful.

Yes, at the time I didn't know but I learned a lot as I got on with it 👍

50 cycle is 1500 rpm, 60 cycle is 1800 with a four pole generator. You can get practically any voltage you want by rearranging the stator leads, per the wiring diagram. Then adjust engine speed up or down to get correct HZ. Great video!

I didn't know who made the controller, but a couple of other people have mentioned similar. Thanks for commenting!

Thank you kindly sir 👍

That's an odd Hz being from Canada we run 1800 rpm 60hz.

Yes it's should be 50Hz in the UK. It was suggested that it would probably drop when the generator was under load.

@@BuyitFixit England - drive wrong side of road - different Voltage and HZ, toast only one side of bread - 😁

@GFY_FOAD 😂😂😂😂

I wish I had 240! Mine is regular 250 or higher! You can see it on a couple of my videos where I've measured the input voltage to the thing I've been repairing.

Yeah, he took a risk but he's quite good with mechanical things, and he knows me for electronics / electrical issues. Looks like his gamble paid off 🙂

I'm sure my farmer friend has a large bowser of red diesel for his tractor... I'm not too sure on the engine in it.

Agree, I did that recently with a 3D printer I was looking at. We were wondering if this could have been intentionally done and someone was trying to get it cheap or hoped it wouldn't sell at the auction.

Thanks Marc. The generator isn't mine but a friends. He bought it at auction about a year ago and asked me ages ago if I'd have a look at it, and I only got round to that last week 😂😂

Just thinking, the biggest thing I fixed recently was an electrical problem on a Fendt tractor. I think it was around 9 months back or so. Video is on here too 🙂

I suppose if I were watching you trying to replace surface mount components the size of a grain of rice on a PCB or reverse engineer the password for a solar inverter, then that may also be very painful, but I'd still give you credit for trying. I've never worked on generators before and don't have 30 years experience unlike yourself. It may have taken you a few minutes to repair it but aftet all I did get it working..

It's not the how fast or long it takes to fix but more of a sistamatic troubleshooting once the problem has been identified. We once had a tech at our shop working on a cat generator and just grabbed the throttle and went wot just like you did, luckily there was only 1 thing damaged...costly oops@@BuyitFixit

I suspect it was more likely the generator had been run often at low load. Diesels want to be run hard, running it with minimal load for long periods of time causes cylinder glazing and exhaust slobbering, both would cause smoke. Happens pretty often as generators are usually quite oversized

I think he said something about re-seating the valves? But don't quote me on that one.

@@BuyitFixit I believe he did, and good chance that had to happen too. Probably a bunch of carbon built up getting in the way if it was never run hot/hard enough to burn it all off. In theory if they had been able to get the engine to run (even poorly) and just load a bunch, it probably would have came good eventually. Pulling it apart was definitely the better approach though, if you actually want the generator to use and don't know the history.

I'm not sure what he's going to be using it for, I know he has a 3 phase pillar drill and a 3 phase lathe but only a single phase supply at the farm.

@@BuyitFixit u can run single phase loads it's not not safe without carem each phase must be loaded within a few hundred watts of each other. After that bad shit starts happening, keep pushing it vibrations caused by the magnets will destroy the Genny and as it locks up it will snap the end of the crank shaft. U can also get 3 phase to single phase inverters. These are perfect for single phase deployments of genbys

That was pretty much along the same conclusion that we came to. Thanks for sharing 👍

I was hoping it was something like a fault with the control panel as PCB's and electronics are the type of thing that I usually repair, seems someone had previously messed with it and wired up the AVR wrong.

Yes my reply was before the end of video.Many times mechanical problems are reflected as electrical issues

Yes, that's why thought it could have been something with the engine speed or such as that's what my friend had messed with. No one had touched the AVR which I didn't even know how they regulated at the time, but overall I learned some new stuff that I previously didn't know and that's half of the fun for me 🙂. Thanks for commenting 👍

If its speed frequency will change and it's governor controller issue. If its voltage it's AVR or alternator diode issue, dropp ct

Yep, that's what we call them in the Northeast 😂😂😂

Good point 👍I had been thinking it was a bit sketchy.

Good point 👍I had been thinking it was a bit sketchy.

@@BuyitFixit Remember one flash and your ash.

I didn't know what you meant, searched the name and got some Australian Actor 😂😂😂😂😂 . It wasn't until today when someone mentioned a youtube channel that fixes generators that I clicked on 👍

Maybe it was my fault for being presumptuous . I thought a great brain like yours would have crossed paths with James's mind at some point in time .😁

Thanks 👍

Ah yes, I've heard of GFI which I guess is what we call a RCD 🙂

Agree, first time I've looked at one. I would have been more in my comfort zone repairing the control panel down to component level, which is the kind of stuff that I normally work on, but at least I've gained some knowledge on how these devices work now 🙂

Large is a relative term, it's large compared to my 1000w suitcase generators or even my 5kva diesel backup home one, but not as large as you say as a one filling a 40ft container 😂😂😂

Lol, just the way the 'Geordie' accent is I guess 😂😂(Northeast England where I grew up)