Laser 128 and XT - Clones better than the originals! 

"With names like Banana, Orange, and Pineapple..." - it sounds like the single board computer market?

Will never forget the day my Dad took us to Sears and bought the Laser Turbo XT. That thing was a monster, but I wouldn't be in IT today without it. I only wish he had listened to me instead of the salesman when he was talked into an EGA monitor even though the PC only had a CGA card. Thanks for the memories, David!

Clicked on this without seeing who it was. Figured it was lgr. Welcome back man. Glad you got your house back in order.

What a big coincidence. Was at a church garage sale and I saw the Laser128 ex in the box. Thought it would be useful or worth a few bucks. Collecting Amigas I wasn't really excited about the find until I opened and the whole package has never been used or unpackaged. Total new old stock, what a surprise.

My first DOS machine was actually a Laser Turbo XT that I picked up at a garage sale in the early 90s for like $20.

VTech not only makes kids toys, but is a MAJOR contract manufacturer for a lot of big name brands you'll find at your local big-box store. I remember in college some 25+ years ago that one of my roommates opened up his PC and found that VTech made the motherboard. He was surprised that his computer and his nephew's toy computer came from the same folks!

Apple: "Does more. Costs less. It's that simple." Laser: "Uh-huh."

My computer science teacher in middle school had a Laser 128, and I have to admit, it was a great machine! Almost made me buy it but I opted for the Commodore 64 because all of my friends had it.

In my senior year of high school I worked in a computer store. We sold a lot of Laser 128's. They were very popular. Many did come in for repair though.

The "Power Out" on the XT might have been for the external disk drive. I actually picked up a number of external 37-pin floppy drives at Computer Reset on a couple of my trips, it wouldn't surprise me if one of those could be adapted to that port fairly easily.

The Laser DOES have extended graphics modes, the owner's manual for my EX does state so. There are some videos on my channel demonstrating a simple program in that mode at 1MHz and 2MHz.

My grade school had about a dozen Pineapple computers.

Always a good day when David uploads!!

Microsoft in the 80s: You want to make a clone computer? Yes we'll license our software that you'll need.

Laser 128 is the computer that my computer lab had when i was in elementary school. Just a few years later they were teaching us microsoft programs and shortly after that i was playing doom on my home pc. Strange how time can be tracked as a child. Great videos keep up the awesome work.

I recognize Adrian's 70's towel from a mile a way. He is quite the hoopy frood!

"almost three times cheaper for a product that actually does more" Nice resume of Apple's history

I bet that power out was for the external drive or printer, not a monitor.

Apple clones were ubiquitous in Australia in the mid 80s. I had a 2c clone.

When the spin off is better than the original: Edit: Mom: we have apple two at home Apple two at home: 1:00

When i was in 7th grade i worked for a computer store that doubled as a user group and BBS with fidnonet gateways. I got to take a laser 128 / XT home for a bit along with some dated televideo stuff to run a node form my area code for the local school. this brings me back. :D

Our school had more Lasers than it did Apples in the mid 80's. The Apples were int he main office and the library, while the resource rooms that did have pc's had Laser 128's

Interesting to see that "you can get a product that does more for 3 times cheaper" has been apple's motto since the start

We had an Apple //e growing up, and my parents eventually bought a used Laser 128EX/2 as well since the Apple was getting used by me and my brother so much. The EX/2 also had MIDI ports!

I had the Laser 128 when I was 9 years old in 1986. I begged for that computer and loved it dearly. I turned my back for 5 mins in my teens and my Dad gave it away to someone who had no idea how awesome it was. Still wish I could get that computer back, even though I don't really have a use for it. I used to use Print Shop using an Okidata Printer, Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing, Kid Nikki Radical Ninja, and a shareware game called Agent USA. Damn that computer ruled so hard.

I remember Pineapple Computers, a friend of mine had one in the 80s. FYI the company is still in operation, or at least remnants of it. They don't assemble computers anymore but operate a few shops here in Malaysia. I more or less grew up at one of their outlets, I'd be over there every weekend browsing through their games. Back then, a game cost a little over a dollar a disk and about 2 dollars for a photocopy of the manual... Lol *edited for typos

My brother and I got the 128 for Christmas when I was in the 4th grade. My mom got it from Service Merchandise on recommendation of my 4th grade teacher. We had it connected to a composite monitor that we would later also connect the NES to. I was still using that thing to write reports when I entered high school before upgrading to using a 286.

The 37 pin SUB--D connector for external floppies in the Laser XT is probably simply a shugart interface (normal PC floppy interface) as it was quite common to use this connectors with the normal flat cable. The pins are usually just connected 1 to 1, so it extremely easy to build an adapter. You just have to check if they also push power over it.

Ah, Choplifter… So many hours spent playing this when I was young! 😊

The original gold label laser 128 does support 560x384 and setting border color (and possibly 280x384). It's removed in the later versions as you have there possibly to increase apple compatibility. I have tried it on both machines and it definitely works on the earlier rom gold label machine. An article in Computist #66 (see internet archive for copy) tells you how to access it, then you have to write the image to both pages in dhgr mode. It's also noted on the packaging of the original gold label version of the laser 128.

It's been in the making and planning for years. Great that it's finally out there! And I wonder what planned documentary is coming out next... Amiga, maybe? ;)

I still have my Laser Compact XT. I didn't know they were so rare. Shortly after I bought mine I expanded it as much as I could. As you can see on David's video, there is a COM2 port that is blocked off. If you bought a 16550 UART and a 1488 and 1489 RS232 to TTL driver/receiver chip set, along with a 9-pin PC board mount connector, you could populate COM2 yourself and get it working. Likewise, if you wanted an IBM 8-bit ISA expansion port you could get a 62 pin right-angle bus slot and solder it onto the motherboard. I never found an external drive and never really needed one. Mine came with a 1MB RAM expansion card built-in so I configured that as a RAM drive in case I had a need for more disk storage albeit very volatile storage.

I'm just here to appreciate all the work that goes into the production of one of your videos. Nice job.

I learned a few things from you that pertained to my childhood, but then I just wanted you in the background to soothe me like the sound of rain. Amazing channel. You're doing everything right.

Whenever I hear V-Tech, I just think phones. I had a V-Tech cordless phone right around 98/99 I really liked. It was black and had a fairly large Caller ID screen, and it had an ergonomic contour. I guarantee if you 25 or older, you or someone you knew had this phone. I sold a lot of them at Service Merchandise. I worked in the electronics dept, and it a decent job, especially for a high schooler. But they were gonna close down the electronics dept, so I quit. Not too long after that they did close it down, then the whole store/chain.

Found my Laser 128, Laser monitor, Laser mouse, Laser external drive, and my Panasonic KX-P1080i printer and hooked it all up. Still works great!

I've been binge watching 8-bit guy all day, so this is perfect.

1:03 That lovely typo in the magazine ad... 64 BYTES of RAM!!! Screwing it up just where the attention focus should be. Marvelous.

Indy Car 500: craping out on the CPU while looking like barf. Planet X3: Let's just scroll through this vast and detailed 3 screens of map fluently with multiple color sets that all just look so gorgeous even faulty cga color pallets could not make it look bad. What a flex.

Your videos are the only tech videos that really get my attention. I don't have a computer hardware interest (or tech interest in general) but I always love watching your videos. I find them both fun, interesting and informative. Thanks to you I now know more about old than new technology. Please keep up with your awesome work!

You're telling me a product that does more than Apple's also costs less? Imagine my shock.

Wow this new studio looks great !

If I were to own one, I'd have a 3rd party Apple computer. Who would've known. 🤔

There were lots of clones alongside the Laser, even after Apple sued many into the ground. They operated offshore and often just morphed into a different company. They also had 'private label' arrangements where stateside retailers would import 'repair parts', minus the Apple ROMs, and then assemble a machine under their own label using 'backup' EPROMs they acquired on their own. I have a Unitron that became a 'Linden' that way. I saw a lot of these back in the day.

Thank you so much for making this, I was just thinking "wonder if anyone has done videos about that apple 2 clone " I proposed switching our school computers to it, but the apple 2 was actually cheaper for schools to buy through apple's educational sales channels.

Love this - my family's first PC was the Laser XT. I spent countless hours on it with GW Basic! What a blast from the past, thanks for this video.

15:15 You highlighted what look like the printer cables. I think the display cable it's referring to is directly under the monitor's description - 3 E 76650 for $14.99.

These all bring back memories. I had just graduated high school when these all came out. Was an awesome time.

Thanks for giving us a closer look at the Laser XT. 3:48 - I recognize that ugly towel!

I was just checking for a video to realize that two weeks passed by. Glad to see a new video!

I love it when clone systems out perform and innovate from the original, while at an affordable price.

Man don't change your theme song! It just makes me smile every time I hear it.

Just when I think I've watched everything on RU-vid, you drop a new video.

My first personal computer in my room was an old (at the time, mid to late 90's) Apple IIGS Woz Edition loaded with some of the best expansion cards. It was a gift from an Uncle, the company he managed IT for was tossing it with drives and monitor in favor of a newer workstation. I remember seeing a couple of the Laser 128EX's along side it that he kept. I still have the IIGS setup for use. I learned Assembly and C on it and still program little projects on the real hardware when bored. It's crazy how long the Apple ][ (and clones to an extent) lasted in use thanks to Woz's design of simplicity and upgradability.

I'm guessing the power output on the XT was for the external floppy drive. They probably didn't even supply a separate power brick with the floppy drive, and just included the cable to connect to the power output on the computer.

The new studio looks AMAZING!!!!! Well done 8-Bit Guy!

I was unironically excited to see a new video from you. Glad things are going well for you!

I love your intro so much that I made it my ringtone haha. I love the song that it comes from as well! Good stuff my man!

Ok so from the top: Mockingboard - Did you ensure that the external slot switches in the ROM door were properly set? In an Apple II all I/O is memory mapped. To achieve this each expansion card is given some section of the address space at $C000 (i.e. Slot 1 - $C100, Slot 2 - $C200, etc..). The Apple //c had quite a bit of the functionality provided by common cards ( Disk controller, Smartport controller, Mouse card, 80 column card, super serial card) built-in. In order to be compatible with existing Apple II software the //c needed to replicate these I/O addresses and routines. So this left almost no $CXXX space available. The Laser 128, by adding even more functionality had an even worse problem. This was solved by having two DIP switches which could map the slot 5 and/or slot 7 $CXXX space either to the internal devices (RAM card and Universal Disk controller respectively) OR to the external slot. If you don't have at least one of these set to "external" then any card you insert in that slot won't work. Graphics Modes: The Laser 128 supported the same modes the //c did. Lo-res, double lo-res, high-res and double-Hi Res - it didn't even support the crazy mixed color/mono DHR mode that the Apple RGB/Video 7 cards supported. The likely source of the error that there are some extra modes available comes from the Laser 128 user manual. Which, in several places refers to the double hi-res mode as 560x192 in 16 colours. Double-Hi Res uses a "sliding 4-bit window" for generating colour on NTSC systems. So while there are 560 horizontal pixels, you need four of them to make (most) colours. Therefore normally this mode is referred to as 560x192 monochrome and 140x192 in 16 colours. Availability: The Laser 128 shows up frequently on ebay (especially the early versions). The EX is not very common and the EX/2 is virtually non-existent. Features you missed: On the EX/2 the serial port could be turned into a MIDI port. However I'm not sure if it was at all compatible with any standard card (like the Passport). Also the EX/2 had a built-in clock/calendar. Interestingly, the battery that kept time also kept the control panel settings. Other clones: Despite the efforts of customs. Apple II+ clones were easily obtained in the 1980s. About 30% of the people I knew who owned an Apple II+ owned a clone. However as the Apple software market started to focus on the //e and //c -- and programs like Appleworks were part of that. These machines could no longer be assembled strictly from OTS parts. The Laser 128 itself has three large ULA/GAL components attempting to emulate all that circuitry. That was probably as much the reason for the waning of the clone market as anything else. Was it better?: Well the EX was definitely a bargain. The only caveat I would bring up is build quality. I have worked on quite a few 128's and EX's and the motherboards are frequently filled with post-production repairs. The keyboard is just a circuit board with a rubber overlay consisting of small conductive buttons. If the overlay is even slightly unaligned when you re-assemble the system. You will end up with some keys either not firing or only firing occasionally. In this there is absolutely no comparison to the Apple //c (and especially the //c+) . Did that translate into a lack of reliability? Not sure, most of the units I get require some work. So my sample is biased because I'm usually looking for "as-is" equipment. Hope that helps.

I'm sure you get millions of comments like this. I'm still looking forward to videos about Teddy Ruxpin, and restoration and documentary videos on the Compaq luggables. I especially enjoy the restoration videos. I can certainly imagine why it may take several years to get material together for a video though. What's really amazing to me is that you find old software that still works. There's no telling how many 5-1/4" and even 3-1/2" inch disks I've had that got corrupted or demagnetized. Keep up the good and fascinating work.

Such a huge fan of yours. You make computing so interesting to someone like me that knows nothing ! It’s a huge testament to your talent and knowledge! Keep it up !

What a marvelous blast from the past! The trusty Laser 128 was my very first computer back in the day.

maybe PCBway could help you make a external card slot for that bus - and a 3D printed case.

I just rewatched the XT restoration video yesterday and went looking for the documentary lol

I had one of those :-) The 128. Wow this takes me back…lol especially when you switched it on [BEEP! Clakata-clacka-clack]

I've only just stumbled upon your channel, and boy am I glad that I did! What a cool video. Thank you.

20:36 Indy 500, great game, it's a must for every retro gamer.

I had a Laser 128 and was able to get a card to work directly in the expansion slot, without the expansion bay. Oddly enough, it was a Lis’ner 1000 speech recognition card. Pretty cool for the day. The laser is long gone, but I still have the card. Thanks for the show. I always enjoy these!

Loved seeing AppleWorks in there. The programmer was my neighbor when he was writing it. Watching him code that pretty much guaranteed I'd be a hardware nerd for life, after that.

This channel easily has my fav intro music it brings such nostalgia of the 80's and early 90's. One of the best times to have been alive for of all time!

I wonder if that power out port is for the external disk drive.

Well, I sometimes wish that I was born in the old days to really live these eras when I watch your videos. I'm 16 years old now but your videos amazes me

Nah: the difference between the way that Commodore did multicolour and Apple did multicolour is that Commodore weren't relying on NTSC bugs.

Something tells me that external floppy interface on the XT is compatible with the IBM 4869 external 5.25" drive. Looks like the same connector and that was of the PS/2 era -- around 1987. Great video as usual!

Apple overcharging for computers? I see nothing has changed.

Super, as always. What you do is really appreciated.

Good to see you back on air 8 Bit Guy, nice video.

If this company was still around to the calibre in the 80s I think they would be innovating today and actually challenging Apple

You know, that background could work if it were very light gray in color.

I really like your new studio :-) Looks great and so fresh.

The Laser 128 is the last working working "Apple ][" I have.

I need that EX to run my VisiCalc tables. I could run circles around my business competitors in forecasting sales as we head to the 90's

AppleWin developer here. There are a couple of games that do ROM checks so they won't boot on a Laser 128 but with boot tracing and disabling those stupid checks every game works on the Laser 128. There is even a retrocomputing stackexchange question about this: _Why was Brøderbund's RWTS18 incompatible with the Laser 128?_

I loved my Tandy 1000 back in the day. I spent countless hours playing Thexder, King’s Quest, etc., on it.

My first computer was a Franklin 1200, which I kept calling an Apple II at the time because it ran Apple II software. My parents bought a bunch of different educational software, which I remember being mildly entertaining. But my favorite program was Frogger. A lot of schools in Pennsylvania had Franklin computers in the mid to late 80s, because they could get them cheaper than Apple II official models.

I love seeing Zaxxon from Colecovision on the cover of Radio Electronics from 1983! One of my favorite games from the wonder years. The graphics were so vividly 3D, LOL!

I remember seeing those at Sears.

I am so happy that this channel exists

To me the rear looks like a larger PlayStation 1 design

Thank you so much for this. My family actually did own a Laser Compact XT that we bought from Sears. It was our first computer and we had it for several years, till we finally upgraded to a 486 machine in 1994. Initially I did want the Laser 128 because I was used to Apple II computers from school, but my parents decided to get the XT instead. It was an learning experience for me since I had no experience with IBM clones or with MS-DOS, but once I figured it out I really enjoyed that machine. I do remember it being very reliable, I had no issues with it while we owned it. Seeing the CGA graphics again does make me appreciate how far we have advanced since then.

It's funny. I was born in the 80s (86), I don't remember the 80s, but I really miss the 80s. Such a cool time.

I bought a Laser XT from Sears when I started computer science courses in college. I upgraded the RAM to 640k and added the 2nd external floppy disk drive so I could run Turbo Pascal. Before that, TP would constantly ask me to insert disks when compiling. This video is a real nostalgia hit. Fun times!

One thing I've never heard anyone talk about is the Laser's disk drive (or any other Apple II clone's disk drive). Does it have the same sounds, including that loud buzzing that would come from the Apple II's drive?

Nostalgic... my first PC that was actully my own back in 6th grade was a Laser.. a 386SX. I remember going with my parents to pick it up. So excited. Before that we had a family Tandy 1000, then some Tandy Laptop. I believe maybe a Tandy 1500?

We're all still waiting on part 3 of your studio update? You still got works to do?!

I usually avoid videos that are too long, but when I see the notification from a new 8 bit guy video I always hope for a long episode!

15:10 "test drive" game shown!! It's amazing it ran so well in such a small computer. I had a lot of fun with this one.

4:16 I still remember the headphone jack. Bring it back.

Great video David. I had the original Laser 128 back in the late 80s and I loved it. I had a mate who had an Apple //c and he was actually quite jealous of my clone. I ended up selling it to a friend who had retired and wanted something to do to keep him amused and out of his wife's hair since he was no longer working. He had a ball learning how to use it and I had fun teaching him. Update, there was something called double resolution that allowed for 560x192 and from memory it could have up to 16 actual colours on screen at once.

While I’d seen the Laser 128 recently on Adrian’s channel, this is definitely the first time I’ve seen the Laser XT in action. Nifty!