Modern technology that can produce a translucent flexible tube that long. The LASER is off(not perfectly leveled) the water is as correct as you can get.
You can check the accuracy of the lazar level using the two peg method, most people don’t know how to do this. I’ve found brand new lazar levels to be inaccurate. A water level doesn’t need to be checked and is always right on if you are patient enough to wait for the water to settle out. To two peg a level set up two posts 50 feet apart. Set the level up in the centre. Shoot both posts and measure the difference. Move the level 50 feet away from the pegs and shoot them again and measure the difference it should be the same. If it’s not you can see if it’s shooting up or down.
Great video, as a builder I have used both, and I've seen lasers be off, especially if not setup correctly or dropped etc. Yet I still use the laser for the most part for speed etc, and it's easy to setup a couple benchmarks and to check yourself... I used to keep a backup water level... Might get a hundred feet of tubing again, just in case... I like the windshield washer fluid idea... Here in So Kal it's not cold enough to need for freezing, but visiblity is better...
The water level should be perfect, except when it gets hot and bubbles form. The laser beam can get larger at distance and they all have tolerance that increases errors with distance.
I put a valve on each end of hose so I can close the ends till the next time I need it. Fast and accurate and with valves no mess or need for water on site.
Does the tube ever develop air pockets . I’ve been draining mine but then I have to get the Air out of the line before each use. Would be nice to eliminate the step of getting all the air bubbles out
Great video. I like using my water level just so people can ask me “what the heck is that”. I love telling them my level cost $25.00 and then hear them say they spent $1500 .
I've used water levels a lot on building site especially on relocated house's projects when there 2 or 3 sections and working from 1 datum point Lazer's can't see through plaster sheeting or as America's call drywall.
The laserlevel is perfect for the initial leveling. If you are in a masonry house you already have walls in the way of your laser, so you would need to reset the height on the laserlevel for every room to get the same height. With the waterlevel it's easy to get the level in different rooms all across a house... I say there is no right tool for every job in the world...
When using water level check for bubbles, for they will affect the level. Before using water hose do a level test like you did, put the hoses side by side to check calibration. I filled the hose with RV pink antifreeze, worked great at first, the next year it was off an 1", I'm thinking the additives in the RV antifreeze separated.
Water is level ,fact. Every foundation has to be measured,squared and level. Water level is better because if you have objects in front of the laser it can't operate, with water you can
Air pressure can make tricks to the water level, that is difference in air pressure, like wind blow into one end of the pipe/hose and the other end is on the opposite side of where the wind hits the object you are measuring at (this create a small vacuum compare to the real air pressure). An other thing can be temperature of the water in the pipe/hose, if you start with cold water in the morning and the pipe/hose lay in the sun during the day it will heat up and expand, if you do not recheck with your reference point then this can trick you too.
Both the water level and the laser level are great tools. A person that does sloppy, careless work, or is not properly trained, could make either tool inaccurate and could seriously screw up a job.
SWEET! I was just wondering about this! Nice experiment! My guess would be the laser lever since in the back of the book of my laser level it says at 100 feet it is + or - 1/16th .
I had never seen that kind of a water level. The only thing I have seen is the floating transit(bowl with floating aiming piece) which is more like a LASER level in use.
The water is always perfect, gravity works, but it takes patience and experience to get it right. Takes time ($$) where the laser is fast and easy and properly set up and confirmed you can count on repeatability. I had a Robo Laser long ago and built a lot with it. After some tweaks out of the box (checked with a water level) it was good and no detector needed. Wish they were still in business.
Before lasers the water level was the only solution. Lasers have a built in specified inaccuracy, usually a fraction of an inch per 100 feet. But there is no question much more efficient, and can be used to resolve tilted plane demarcation, for example, cathedral ceilings.
Laser levels have to be trued up when set up...both north/south and east/west. If not set up right, or calibrated, they can be off...especially the budget ones.
Water level for the win. No annoying sounds. Speed isn’t something I’m to worried about when trying to set something as important as control marks. Only thing that can be annoying with a water level is it’s sometimes difficult to use with only one person. But it can be done with a little work.
I love water levels because when you are on very uneven terrain you can work very easily with it. Once you have a slab or level foundation or work inside the laser can speed things up but the upfront costs are my problem also getting the laser setup level is sometimes an issue when the ground is not solid.
There are so many lasers on the market now that the price really isn't that bad compared to 20 years ago when they cost thousands of dollars. I remember my dad bringing home a transit laser that he would yell at me to not even look at, an would bring it in the house every night because it cost a small fortune. For 700-1500 you can get a really good laser that will pay for itself with the amount of time you will save. You'll get so use to it you'll start to wonder how you ever got by with out one.
I trust the water leveler then I do anything else I was raised up using a water leveler and I wouldn't have anything but a water leveler I like a water lever a lot better and it's easy to use but yes it take time but it's dead-on accurate a water leveler is the old school way and it is the perfect way it is level every time you use it thank you for this video God bless
Good video laser levels can vary between brands and from one to the next but any water level is dead nut. Some form of water level has been used since the beginning of building. The pyramids in Egypt and the coliseum in Rome were built with some form of water level system. That being said the building industry is going to go with fast easy laser.
The water level is fine for many building site, usless for me as I design roads (1km -5km) , Completely impractable, You need to that a water level maybe out if the tube is not the same temprature through out, e.g. some in sun and some in shade. this become worse the longer the tube. It is also important to level the fluid settle. Like all tools, nothing wrong with it if used for the correct purpose.
What matters is what you want to measure. There is a discrepancy over large distances because the water level follows the curvature of the earth, which is about eight inches in one mile, while the laser goes in a straight line and thus diverges from the earth.
Ok I could have looked into this at any point but never thought to because I didn't think it was anywhere close to that much, if someone would have asked me i would have said that maybe it curves a hundredth of an inch per mile on the and certainly not 8 whole inches, so if I am mathing right it would be 1 inch per 660 feet and 1/8” per every 82.5 feet! This is blowing my mind that it curves this much.
@@bdkj3e Well, the deviation is a curve, not linear, so a tenth of the distance does not mean a tenth of the deviation. It's practically negligible on short distances.
T he guy operating the water level was either impatient and didn't let the water settle, or the miniscus got him. You know about that, from getting H2O case weights.
1/8” at 60ft is 0.0099 degrees off level. I think it will do for accuracy. It could easily be error in drawing one or both lines. Especially since the error would be the same at 2, 3 or 10 time the distance. The angle of error would decrease with added range.
Gravity doesn't lie. Laser's require human input and humans mess stuff up. If a water level fails, it's likely because of an open system and air pockets or bubbles. Again, humans mess things up they're both good Eric. Nice lesson.
Water level can be wrong if there are any bubbles in the hose. Lazer can be wrong at a distance compared to the water level, a Lazer doesn't bend to the curvature of the earth, so the further you get from the tripod the greater the difference, a water level is always the same distance from the centre of the earth.
The laser tripod must be PERFECTLY level and perpendicular or it will be off. The water will always be level. If your laser didn’t match the water, I’d say your laser wasn’t perfectly level. Good vid!
The laser is level to the degree the user can read a bubble--it creates a flat plane, for sure. The water level will only be off level by the amount of water it takes to fill the tube given the grade of the spot your checking/marking relative to any other spots your looking at. If you're comparing two points to be the same grade, the water level is more accurate. However, if you need a difference in grade between those two points, the water level can be inaccurate. For instance, when installing a septic tank with a water tube attached to a grade stick, you'd measure the grade of the stub out, and without changing anything, measure to find the grade of the bottom of the tank hole--maybe 5 ft deeper than the stub out. Water will be emptied from the container to fill the 5ft of hose due to the difference in grade, and the depth in the container itself will change as a result. Thus, it's slightly inaccurate. The smaller the tube you can use and the bigger diameter container used, the more accurate it will be.
As long as the laser is set and leveled it's going to be fast. If it's NOT leveled correctly, gets bumped or shifts you're going to have an issue. Water doesn't have any way to screw it up other than not waiting for it to settle? right?
the error was in Human error. every other poles seemed to be on the money for the exception of that one mistake. lesson the day: both will do fine in any residential construction project as long as you mark them correct
You could measure the distance from the ground to the lowest marking on each pole. The measurement should be exactly the same. If it’s not, you know you made an error with the water level. Repeat the process with the top marks and you’ll have your answer for the laser level.
lasers are amazing tools but far from perfect, a laser can easily get off and needs to be checked every use most people have no idea how to accurately check a laser for plumb and level in my line of work a laser can help greatly but if its even 1/16 of an inch off over 8 feet it is too far out and needs to be replaced
I use both the water level and a laser level to set tile. Your water level mark is off. I know this because if the laser was off you'd have more than one pillar that was off and the error would be progressive. So why do I use a water level? To periodically check the accuracy of my lasers, as the water level, given enough time to settle, is infallible.
Water levels are not infallible surface tension, size of hoses and wind make a difference sometimes. When these factors are taken into consideration the water level is probably the most reliable. You are right about the error would be Progressive. Just one reading being off a little bit is probably human error or perhaps a little bit of wind when they took the reading.
@@vernyanke1131 Hu.... as a commercial tile setter I don't really have to deal with the wind indoors. So that might be helpful to know someday if and when I do use one outdoors. As for the other items you mentioned, that's user error and not the fault of the water level. Friction can easily be avoided by the use of a sufficiently large tube (= or > 7/16 id) and a little bit of soap. My point about the device is really about the consistency of gravity. But obviously sloppy use of the thing can screw up anything.
So basically what you're saying is a $5 tool can do the job of a $2,000 tool. I'll follow the science. Mother nature hasn't let me down yet and I'm old as dirt.
Topcon laser is a thousand times better then a water level when calibrated. Lol not even close . Been an Excavation Grade Checker 10 years built major highways, buildings , bridges and sewer .
That's the craziness thing I've ever heard..lol. After 30' you loose or gain 1/8"!? Sticks of pipe are 20' and we lay 300' and never move the laser. Check every joint and it's always on grade. You're crazy..
My money is on the water level. Lasers are good hell their great but there's human error, lasers are fast you get in groove going around marking your elevation an its very easy to get off an 1/8th inch by not marking the exact spot that the target card is telling you to.
I have used both pretty extensively the laser you need to check calibration every so often. The water level wind will make a difference sometimes the upwind side will have a higher pressure then the downwind side causing your levels to be off a little bit. The laser level can be a one-man operation easier than a water level but if one end of your water level is attached to a bucket filled with water it can be a one man operation also. A very good laser level can have a range from one side to the other of almost a thousand feet a water level is limited to probably about 150 to 300 feet. A water level has its advantages in that you can level easily underneath structures and in any room. It is probably wise put a small amount of detergent in the water used in a water level to do away with the surface tension of the water. Don't use too small of a hose because the surface tension will make a difference. I always used a garden hose with a clear section of hose at the end to get my levels I always put a valve on it also so that when I transported the end from one location to the other I didn't lose any water. High tension power lines, strobe lights like those found on emergency vehicles, arc welders and anything that reflects light like large glass windows that business sometimes have will play Havoc with your laser level receiver. Get too close to an automobile that has a real shiny finish can be a problem too. If you have more than one laser level on a job site or nearby you can get some very erroneous readings also. You don't have those problems with a water level. However you can have problems with heavy equipment running over your hoses. If you do not need a level very often a water level is probably far more cost-effective. So in summary they both have their advantages and disadvantages. You can get very good results out of both of them. A water level is a very good tool for surveying caves and mines. Another pretty good low tec level is a speed square and plumb bob but it is not nearly as accurate as a water level. The best level that I have ever used was a split bubble Wild made in Switzerland it was so sensitive that just switching your weight from one foot to the other even on solid concrete would cause the bubble to move slightly.
I'm reading alot of comments about the time needed for a water level. Starting to think if I wanted cheap and quick. I'd buy two long lengths of tubing. Affix two of them together. Then move one end to a spot where you need marking. Then move the other tube to another spot. Hopefully, by the time you've affixed site 2 ... site 1 has settled down for marking, then move it to the next point. Return to the other tube and mark and move. Cheap and possibly just as fast.
Ive seen plenty of brick piers that are up to and over 30mm out of level after brick layers using water levels to level them. Ill stick to my laser level thanks.
@@Ga7cun7sSUCK - Just as in the video. The error is not from the water level per se. It's operator induced! That's a given. Physics don't change. On the other hand operator's patience, capacity, whatever, varies a lot! ;-) With this said I would go with a laser. - IF I didn't have to pay for it! ;-) - IF there was a multitude of continuous work, that justified it! Other wise for a couple of measures the water level would be just fine. After all most backyard projects only need a few measurements. A "pro" doing it all day long, day in day out. That's another story!
Like most scenarios I have seen at job sites, the true test is repeatability, which level works more often? My guess is, in a more exhaustive test, both levels are going to perform very well, and it is most likely, human error that accounts for differences. An example, if you measure something 10 times and 9 measurements are the same, and one is not, the measure that is not the same, it is usually due to human error, and not the tool.
There are a couple of ways to use a water level by yourself. The first is when you have the two ends together fix the stationary end to a post etc then mark the waterlevel on the tube, when you are at the marking end you have to make sure the water is at the line you marked and it will be at the line on the fixed end. The quickest method is to drill a hole in the bottom of a bucket and silicon one end of the hose into the bucket, fill with water, mark the hose with a line and when marking make sure water is at the mark. The bucket reservoir will dampen the water movement in the hose and make it settle much quicker.
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with a crayon, cut it with an axe. Accuracy and repeatability with any construction method is in the hands of the craftsman.
I have never seen this guy strike a mark that wasnt at least a few mm' off the mark from using those 10 inch thick marking pens. I guarantee everything is off by a bit
@@scottbutler2761 the laser wouldn't be wrong on just one post. If it were out of level it would get progressively get more wrong the farther away from the transmitter he got. Someone didn't transfer the mark correctly.
@@scottbutler2761 :Automatic compensation - within the range of the bubble ring.. - but yes you need to check - same as with a dumpy level - 2 shots (known height) 180 degrees apart - needs to be "bang on" Water -- needs patience for it to stop bobbing - a tap on the end of the line can avoid bobbing when walking from point to pont. or loosing water when crawling in tight areas...
