LDS Doctrine Discovered in Dead Sea Scrolls... Again! 

On the Roseanne Barr podcast with Tucker Carlson as guest. Tucker said when the concept of BOM came up "I used to make fun of them (Mormons) I am going to stop doing that..."

I was scrolling through RU-vid and your channel came up. At first I thought it was an Anti-Mormon site. Then I read a few of the comments and decided to play your video. I am surprised and amazed!! Thank you for a great channel. I will be watching more often ❤

I just love how random members of the Church can be so well versed in scripture and history. Way to be Jonah Barnes!

My wife and I decided to take the prophet advice and make Easter a bigger holiday. We set up traditions for every day and especially placed heavy emphasis on Friday through Sunday. On Friday we watched the passion and we wore black for Friday and Saturday. My wife sewed red wristbands, and we made red Easter eggs out of onion skins, which is an old family tradition. It was like we really kept the Lords memory physically with us. It felt like celebrating Easter for the first time- Like we had rediscovered something that had been lost to us.

The Eastern Orthodox still believe in the Harrowing of Hades! My experience with Orthodox Christianity is what really helped me to realize the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon and made my first temple experience so wonderful. I know that the Lord knew what I needed and introduced me to these ideas prior to going to the temple.

Hel is in the Scandinavian collection of stories called the Eddas. Her realm was Niflheim. The dead stood around motionless and silent.

One of the greatest slam-dunks of the Restoration. Section 138, the Harrowing of Hell. Lost by Christianity during the Great Apostasy. Restored in the Latter-Days. SLAM-DUNK. Joseph Fielding Smith was a Prophet who saw through the Veil. God is good. Jesus slew the dragon. Man is free. Ward Radio is the shiz

I always feel so grateful to be a member of the church when I learn about this stuff. Thank you Jonah and Cardon. To those who are well-versed, would you have any suggestions on where to start studying if one knows nothing about the apocrypha/dead sea scrolls?

Nine years ago we did a family home evening for Easter and did the Pillsbury with the marshmallow thing and we asked our oldest daughter who was 5 at the time what happened to the marshmallow and she said “Jesus ate it!” Nine years later we still do that same object lesson before Easter and laugh about that. She’s now 14 and laughs so hard every year when we tell the story. It really is a great and fun way to teach little kids about Jesus and His death and resurrection.

I love the application of this: celebrate the Saturday before Easter with genealogy and temple worship.

By the way, thank you for doing these videos. I'm in a part of my life where I'm restructuring myself and my entire life. And I have started being a very avid scripture reader and studier, and the Holy spirit has really been prompting me to those things and laying them heavily on my heart! And as I've been doing that, these videos also have helped me explore more into the scripture, and even into the book of Mormon. I am beginning to gain a testimony about the book of Mormon. The more I study the scripture and the book of Mormon. And I'm really glad to have the opportunity to do that. I've been a member of the church since 2007. I think it was, but then left all churches for a while after my divorce. And this year the Lord God called me back to the church and put his will very heavily upon my heart with brand new convictions for my life!

Wow! This episode was amazing! I did not know about these awesome connections with the Book of Nicodemus and D&C1 38 on the redemption of the dead. For Come Follow Me, I just recently reread the verses in Peter about Christ preaching to the dead, but did not realize there was such strong support for this in early Christian teachings.

Could you give the link you pulled up referencing Brett McDonalds paper "A Document without Parallel on Joseph F. Smith Vision of the Dead and The gospel of Nicodemus. I tried doing a search but could not find it. Thank you

10 out of 10. I actually need to watch again.

Thank you for making your videos shorter. I’ll be watching more of them 😉 I’m thinking of doing a channel like yours or saints unscripted in Mandarin. They need it 😅

Could you please post a link to the Brett McDonald article? I LOVE this stuff so much. Keep on rocking it Brother Barnes!

The harrowing of hell is prominent in catholic and orthodox churches. I would bet that most protestant churches believe in it, but may not focus on it as much. Wasn't lost during the apostasy.

Thanks for sharing this one - very thought provoking and informative :) - I would love to read Brett McDonald's article about the correlation between D.C. 138 and the Gospel of Nicodemus. I watched all of Brett's videos on his "LDS Truth Claims" youtube channel, and I highly recommend those videos to anyone who wants to see a very good set of presentations dealing with all of the major questions regarding the truth claims of our faith. Brett might also be a good guest on your show, if he's available for that sort of thing - since Jonah knows him you could probably get in touch with him easily :)

Awesome information!

Jonah I’ve just found ward radio and I’ve been binge watching for about 5 days now. I happened on this podcast today and I’m loving it. My question, or wondering is about the apocrypha books. I’m not very literate in the Book of Mormon or any of the church scriptures. I can’t argue, or hold my own in a conversation, or explain anything and I don’t feel comfortable about talking to anyone about the scriptures. I’d make a terrible missionary. I’ve been a member my whole life, I’ve been active inactive excommunicated, active and inactive. I’ve been thru the temple before my husband and a few years before he died we were sealed. I’ve become interested in the apocrypha for a couple of years now when I watched John prout explain Ezra eagle. My question is or was are we allowed by the church to read these books because I’ve been afraid I would get reprimanded by my church leaders for reading them. Now I’m watching you guys on ward radio. I wasn’t sure I wanted to give you guys a try because I was afraid of I guess Mormon bashing, church bashing. So I tried one podcast and I was hooked!!! You guys are so knowledgeable and funny! I watched the Liahona one last night and I thought I was going to die laughing. My question is how do I find out about all the apocryphal books, how many are there, how do I use them in my scripture study (which I really don’t know how to do well), but at least I want to learn. What are your suggestions.

AWESOME!

Stepping back a bit from the 61-year-old insight of my life membership in the church. I am 63 now and have been watching all the Virtue signaling that I was guilty of alive and well in the WARD ethos, no not your WARD Radio, The local neighborhood Ward. Love the cool energy of simple information not wrapped in the mayonnaise / homogenized gospel doctrine class's iambic pentameter temperament.

Great stuff!

OK Noah you have me jumping with excitement I must read this book! What version of the book of Nicodemus are you reading? I would like to buy a copy to read as well.

hell is actually in the bible, and in the Book of Mormon lol

Also the harrowing of hades is believed by many Christians, specifically the orthodox Christians. They celebrate the feast of the harrowing of hades every year

I think this is important context to this topic. D&C 138:28-31 28 And I wondered at the words of Peter-wherein he said that the Son of God preached unto the spirits in prison, who sometime were disobedient, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah-and how it was possible for him to preach to those spirits and perform the necessary labor among them in so short a time. 29 And as I wondered, my eyes were opened, and my understanding quickened, and I perceived that the Lord went not in person among the wicked and the disobedient who had rejected the truth, to teach them; 30 But behold, from among the righteous, he organized his forces and appointed messengers, clothed with power and authority, and commissioned them to go forth and carry the light of the gospel to them that were in darkness, even to fall the spirits of men; and thus was the gospel preached to the dead. 31 And the chosen messengers went forth to declare the acceptable day of the Lord and proclaim liberty to the captives who were bound, even unto all who would repent of their sins and receive the gospel.

Harrowing doesn’t mean to harvest. It is done before planting. Also, according to Merriam Webster’ dictionary, the archaic meaning is to pillage or plunder. This definition makes much more sense given what Christ actually did there. He freed the captives and started missionary work there, so that people could leave hell. In other words, he plundered hell. Also, section 138 gives no indication that John the Baptist was in spirit prison preparing the way for Jesus Christ. It actually says that after Christ’s death on the cross, he went to the spirit world and organized the prophets who THEN started preaching the gospel. It says nothing about any prophet preaching before him.

The spirit prison is a partial judgment!

John the Baptist did prepare the way for Christ in mortality. I’m sure he also continued that work fervently in the spirit world until his resurrection.

Lolololol that intro gaze by Jonah😂

Translated correctly, there is abundant evidence of Mormon doctrine in the scriptures we now have. I love to listen to these rabbis on You tube and read writings by Biblical scholars.

Well we javelin the primary song... Saturday is a special day it's the day we get ready for Sunday 😂😂😂

Do Mormons consider Nicodemus to be an apostle? In the Catholic and Orthodox traditions he was a secret apostle and I'm curious whether this is similar for LDS or is this just parallel doctrines?

After watching this video I read the gospel of nicademus. Fantastic. I then started writing a song about it. I'm hooked the event

I'm all down for doing a Doom II LAN party on the Saturday before Easter, haha

How do I get that document that compared D&C 128 with the book of Nicodemus?

Does anyone have a link to the document by Brett McDonald? I've not been able to find it.

Fascinating, but I am disappointed that D. C. 138:29 is completely overlooked. Christ did NOT go personally among the “wicked and disobedient.”

You guys, there's actually a lot of talk that Mell Gibsons sequel to the Passion of the Christ will include the harrowing of hell. Prodestant Evangelicals everywhere are pissed about it. So your movie version of this is on it's way bro.

Doom 2 was partly developed by Sandy Petersen, a member of the Church. So you're not really too far off. :)

On the pic of Christ Harrowing Hell notice the hand grip. If you Google images of Christ harrowing hell, hades you will see there are other early Christian paintings and icons that have hand grips as a common theme.

Can you provide a link to Brett McDonald's "A Document without Parallel" work in the description? I haven't been able to find it online. Thank you!

Jesus descending to hell/dead is also Catholic and Orthodox doctrine, not sure who your referring to when you say modern Christians reject it, I assume evangelicals. Edit: I finished the video, they mentioned it at the end, fair play.

Such a good podcast! I'm curious to learn what revelations we are still receiving. I am not aware of any.

The only "hell" is trying to get through your podcast without cringing. 😬

I checked out LDS Truth Claims page. Great stuff, but im itching to read the doc you posted. I read below you dont want to scoop him, but have you all tried to reach out to him? any interest in getting him on your show?

“Spirit World Saturday”

Anyone have the link to the document?

Perry Stone on his show Mannafest preaches also about Jesus going to Hell, to free the captives, and to steal the keys of Death and Hell. He says Jesus brought the thief who repented on the cross with him because who better than a thief to do the job. Jokingly. On the You Tube channel The God Culture, the narrator said on one show that John the Baptist had a library at or near (can't remember) Qumran of many books of scripture and that the priests of Zadok had been overthrown and exiled years before. His info probably comes from the Dead Sea Scrolls. Super interesting channel as he really nit-picks every detail. l

1 Corinthians 15:29 - Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead not rise at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead?

I looked up the definition of harrow. It is not the same as harvest: harrow 1. Help! hallo! hello! an exclamation of sudden distress, of lamentation, or of indignation or surprise: used by heralds to attract attention. 2. To ravage; despoil; vex: same as harry. 3. To draw a harrow over; break or tear with a harrow: as, to harrow land or ground. 4. To tear or lacerate as if by a harrow; torment; harass. noun Disturbance; cry; uproar. A barrow-like military formation; also, that assumed by flying flocks of wild geese. An implement, usually formed of pieces of timber or bars of metal crossing one another and set with iron teeth (also called tines), drawn (usually by one corner) over plowed land to level it and break the clods, and to Cover Seed when sown.

Like others say, I cant find McDonald's 'A Document Without Parallel' paper, how do we find it, like you did ? you say we should be able to 'google', but that doesnt work for me, thanks.

Waiting for the apocrypha to be added into the Come Follow Me cycle

36 Thus was it made known that our Redeemer spent his time during his sojourn in the world of spirits, instructing and preparing the faithful spirits of the prophets who had testified of him in the flesh; 37 That they might carry the message of redemption unto all the dead, unto whom he could not go personally, because of their rebellion and transgression, that they through the ministration of his servants might also hear his words. Jesus did not go personally to spirit prison but was in the spirit world and sent messengers to teach the rest of the spirit world

What scroll number does this come from?

I would normally agree with you guys on this, but I have studied hundreds of NDEs and many people have stated they ended up in a place NEAR the lake of fire and brimstone. These people instead talk about immense darkness and suffering and how this place is called hell. NDEs aren't doctrine, nut neither is the apocrypha. In my mind, NDEs hold as much weight as the apocrypha. There is a hell. It's a place spoken of A LOT in the BOM. It's a place people go to to suffer for their own sins, or to receive the wages of sin

My new favorite thing is finding Christ archetypes in stories. There's a lot in modern stories. Take Disney's Hercules. Greek god right? Ooorrrrr, a god who came down to live among mortals, still maintaining his God-like power to save humanity. Descended below all things....into the place of the dead. Only by sacrificing himself does he return glorified with the power to break the bonds of death (rusty scissors in the movie😁). Only by going into Hades' place does he rise above, saving humanity.

Hell and Gehenna are actually the same thing. You can't say "there is no hell" and then immediately say you believe in Gehenna. They are literally, linguistically speaking, the same thing. Culturally, the word "hell" has been conflated with the lake of fire and the second death, which is an entirely different thing from hell. Linguistically that is an incorrect usage of the word "hell", regardless of popular usage.

Can you provide links to the books discussed in this video????? My search efforts cam up empty.

I for one wouldn't want to be on the wrong side of the prophecy of Isaiah when he says people will say there is no hell. You might want to change the very first words of your video.

You guys are just the funniest people ever!!!

I am totally confused and I have a few questions. The title of the video names "Dead Sea Scrolls" but the Gospel of Nicodemus is in the Apocrypha. Joseph F. Smith would have had access to the Apocrypha but not the DSS. Did I miss the new information from the DSS? In the video Jonah talks about the trial of Jesus, which would have happened before he was crucified, yet it includes testimony from two dead men who were rescued from Hell, which would have been after the crucifixion. It also includes the realization from Caiaphas and Annas that they crucified the son of God. It appears that the time line is out of sync. Maybe the video was just too fast for my slow brain, but it would help if this could be clarified. Thanks.

We don't believe in hell (we believe in external darkness world). It's like saying, 'it's not blue, it's light blue, therefore, not blue'.

Jonah I can’t find the verses in the gospel of Nicodemus you are referring to

I contend that John the Baptist prepared the way for Christ in BOTH mortality and the spirit world.

😂😂 great podcast!! Eye opening for sure!

Can you actually publish a link to the comparison document by Brett McDonald. What an oversight!

Ok im confused. Can someone answer this question? There were witnesses at the trial of Jesus who were resurected beinges. Obviously im missing something here. Was there a trial after Christs resurection?

Jonah Barns 👏👏👏👌

Jonah Barnes...easy on the eyes....stimulating to the mind!

Easter is sundown Wednesday to sundown Saturday… Our family remembers and observes Easter from Nisan one all the way to Nisan sixteen…

Where can we get the document of lds truth claims?

There's many people mentioning the apostles creed, like it's got something to do with the topic

Facts

i 'like' how everything Megrelian and Georgian called Armenian or Greek in Modern history books...

@Wardradio could I have that document?

13:00 why is there a set of handcuffs on the table?

How did 2 men who were raised from prison at Jesus’ trial, which took place before they were raided from prison

Please explain. "Use of Words and Terms Meaning Hell The word hell appears sixty-two times in the text of the Book of Mormon. Thirty-three times it stands alone, without modifiers or explanation of what it means, as in, “And thus we see the end of him who perverteth the ways of the Lord; and thus we see that the devil will not support his children at the last day, but doth speedily drag them down to hell” (Alma 30:60). Twenty-nine times the word hell is used with descriptive modifiers, for example, “depths of hell” (1 Nephi 12:16), “hell which hath no end” (1 Nephi 14:3), “awful hell” (1 Nephi 15:29, 35; Alma 19:29; 54:7), “sleep of hell” (2 Nephi 1:13), “gates of hell” (2 Nephi 4:32; 3 Nephi 11:39-40; 18:13), “pains of hell” (Jacob 3:11; Alma 14:6; 26:13; 36:13), “chains of hell” (Alma 5:7, 9-10; 12:11; 13:30; 26:14), “child of hell” (Alma 11:23; 54:11), “powers of hell” (Alma 48:17), “everlasting hell” (Helaman 6:28), “hell fire” (3 Nephi 12:22; Mormon 8:17), and “endless hell” (Moroni 8:13)."

About there being no Hell....has he not read Doctrine & Covenants 76? Or The Book of Mormon? "And behold, others he (SATAN) flattereth away, and telleth them there is no hell; and he saith unto them: I am no devil, for there is none."

Hel was the name of Loki's daughter, and she was the goddess of torture.

Joseph F. is my great, great Grand Uncle, and his little sister Martha Ann Smith Harris is my great, great grand Mother. Yeah, Joseph F. was cool, I am not cool he was cool!

Interesting lead-in, considering the Book of Mormon cautions directly "others [the devil] flattereth away, and telleth them there is no hell" (2 Nephi 28:22). You are talking about cultural depictions of hell as a place of eternal physical torment, so that makes sense, but the wording is a little provocative... maybe by design?

Where can i find: A document without parallel- Brett McDonald

9:45 what did he just say 😮

22:00 christ himself did not go, but he sent forces to go.

Gehenna is not the "Hewbrew word for the Land of The Dead", that is Sheol. Sheol is the land of the dead, or the land of sleep. Gehenna was literally the trash pile out side of Jerusalem ( Gehinnom / The Valley of Hinnom ) where everyone would go to burn their trash and literal poop, so a literal burning sh*t hole. So when you see the term Gehenna used, you should think of it more as a local curse word i.e. "go to burning sh*t" than some kind of ancient Hebrew term used to refer to a metaphysical place/spiritual place.

I keep telling people that doom is the most Christian game you can play

Jesus died on Thursday evening. Laid in the tomb Friday and Sat. Rose on the third day, Sunday at dawn

I am confused. how could 2 resurrected beings be questioned at Christ trial when nobody had been resurrected yet?

Oh man, my 15 year old has literally argued I should let him play Doom 2 because it is scriptural and good to kill demons. I can't let him watch this video lol.

Great Jobs. 👏👏👏👏

Did hinkley mean that there's no parallel within christianity?

There is a pretty awesome book called "Gods Plan for all" that also discusses the origines of hell, how in the end even "hell will be thrown into the lakr of fire", and how the "lake of fire" actually represents a refining process, how words like "eternal" and "everlasting" in the Bible can mean neverending, but also, depending on its context, mean a certain time period. The book is a great advocate for universalism, and of course this also needs criticle study, but I find many truths in that book that match well with what Joseph thaught. After all the concept of hell is not really in the old testament, evolved due to syrian wars and the desire that justice will meet those that opress Israel at least in the next life, evolved all outside the Bible for about 200 years (for example in the Book of Enoch), and was later adopted by Christianity. It literally comes from a Pagan believe, The idea that Gehenna was a dump place where the bodies of the wicked were burned is not confirmed though from a academic consensus. The first time we read about it is about 1000 years after Chrit mentioned "Gehenna", but is more likley a reference to a valley where childsacrifice took place. There is a lot of great information on these things from the academic world, aswell as from books like the above mentioned.

This was fun! BYW, I think there’s a difference between “doctrine without parallel” and “documents without parallel”. Good job!

It's Okay to believe in something and that you cannot find real facts to your beliefs.

9:46

Hell is German for "bright" or "light"

I just wanted to comment about John the Baptist why he was the greatest prophet. We all know the history of John's birth but what got left out of the history is how John survived Herod's killing of the baby boys. Word was being passed around about John and word got to the prophets who were living in the desert, out of sight and out of mind of the government and religious Jews. When They heard of John's birth, and asked the Lord about it, they were told about how Herod would being killing the babies after Jesus was born so the Lord sent the prophets to Zacharias and told him of the danger and Zacharias sent Elizabeth and John with the prophets. Later when Herod did send soldiers to find John, Zachariah refused to tell them where his son was and he was killed between the altar and the temple. The prophets were living in the area of Qumran. John was the prophet of light mentioned in their writings. John grew up among the prophets and when he was old enough, he became their leader. John was responsible for for the organization of the group to make copies of the scriptures, especially the law of Moses and to get them distributed among the people so that when he began his public ministry, the people would know the law and have reason to repent. He was also responsible for having copies of the scriptures hidden in the caves.