Peter Drucker famously said, "Management is doing things right. Leadership is doing the right things." I think this aligns well with the notion of managing is about making the complex simple and leadership is about taking the organizaiton through transformation. This is a really good podcast - excellent content!
I was blessed to be at our theological conference in the Fall of 2023 with Tod as the keynote. I cannot recommend his work highly enough. Thanks for the interview Carey!
The singular most meaningful part of this interview starts at 51:00. Bill Gates talks frequently about curiosity. Brene Brown writes about empathy and vulnerability. A true full circle interview.