League's Most HATED Role (And Dota's Most Beloved) 

I didn't actually know this! Thanks for sharing! Right now though the Jungle role is weaker compared to what it used to be actually because of repeated nerfs to ganking and the new jungle changes. It's not uncommon for a jungler to have a bit more XP than their own botlaner at certain points. That says a lot because the role is still quite powerful.

Riot almost gave LoL the Dota 2 treatment from valve

@@Acex2ron Junglers typically are first to 6, but then heavily fall off compared to ADC.

@@janah6473 *Karthus enters the picture*

@@PlebCentre Almost like I said "typically". Not sure what you are trying to accomplish by telling me SOME very carry focused junglers take more ressources from the team to keep up in level. Thats per definition atypical.

As the Pudge Theorem dictates, this is only true if said Pudge is on my team

@@Acex2ronBut don’t forget that Pudge doesn’t lose, his team does

Sit in the trees and miss all hooks. He gets so behind that PA will intentionally get hooked and 1shot pudge who only has boots and blink dagger 0 armor 12 mins in the game.

@@boartank or the one time the hook landed in the laning phase, it was an ursa/lifestealer.

pudge is so strong nowadays tho. if he does 2 items he becomes a beast. scepter/hood oof

Dota is more about outsmarting or outpacing enemy. League is more about outskill. Jungle is more impactful when you are outskill, when you are outsmarting you take gank in accountant

actually an accurate statement damn

Idc about what kind of plan you are talking. Laners have shitty habit to counterpick themselves just bc they want to play melee ad champ no matter what and run the game down when their idiocy got punished by enemy. If it is the plan, than I agree, lanes are very structured and lane players are always have a plan.

@@oldevilgreendog I said they always queue with a pre-stablished plan in mind I never said the plan had to be good

"most laners queue with a gameplan already in mind" lol, lmao that is so stupidly untrue I cannot believe someone wrote it and 120 people agree if you're not adapting to what everyone else is doing you're a loser, it's a core part of the game junglers are not "wildcards", if you think they are it means you're not playing around your jungler and not tracking the enemy the Dunning-Kruger effect in the League community needs to be studied, this is insane

If you want to learn Jungle, just pick JG and get in there--and then mute the team. The Jungler, as a role, needs to trust in their own shotcalling skills and decision making. One of the best pieces of advice given to me as a Jungler is to generally avoid ganking losing lanes. If your laner is losing lane without you, it's usually skill issue on their part, and they're not gonna carry you to a victory. Find a win condition, camp their lane, contest objectives, and you'll be fine! Don't let pressure stop you from playing this incredibly fun, yet definitely hated on, role. And I'm glad you like the video!

thats primarilly in low elo, a good midlaner will push wave a gank (usually bot, because bot matters more), a top laner can go bot after pushing wave (this is mainly champs in top with globals) and will gank mid when ahead, top lane is much more of a 1v1 lane tho, with a lot of split pushers, so while this is common its also rare for top to rotate for anything other then securing objectives(once again I emphasize high elo). a support in high elo will gank mid a lot, or help the jungle invade, even going to secure objectives, support is probably the second most free role in the game, as if the adc is dead they are wasting their time in the bot lane, and they are only linked to the lane by the adc, who is very vulnerable without them in most cases, but they don't cs beyond item cs transfer, and while they do need xp, most can function with less of it. the one you directly interact with most besides jungle will be your lane opponent, that's true, but making plays all over the map isn't exclusive to just jungle, its just the jungle has no pre requisites to do it(besides camps, but they are doing those on the way to make a play)

Learning League is basically, master your champions rotations and match ups. Congrats you're now Diamond or higher.

I would say with jungle the key is to get used to sticking to your gameplan and not stressing when you are getting blamed. It is quite hard when beginning to understand that even if you have had 0 impact, you are not to blame for everything. A lot of laners will target you when they themselves were the reason for the state of the game or their lane and it doesn't reduce the higher you climb. A big part of jungle is resilience so if you do take it up be ready to train your mind and trust yourself

@@pandasempie it's not when you're getting blamed as JG in league, you're always going to get blamed because your jungle hahaha

For me its watching my pos 3 grow up big and strong, and letting him live his life as I let his hand go to have some of my own impact in the map. That and also the sadism of making enemy pos 1 irrelevant and deleting them every couple minutes 😬

Same​@@silvisakeru

that's a lot of words for 'nyx, nyx, nyx, nyx'

Well our team got destroyed and my kda is 1/15/8/ but that 5-man echo slam tho

@@Kamirasu It is why i love Nyx so much. NYX NYX NYX NYX NYX

Ah I was waiting for this! Thanks again for the insights! Hopefully people who want to get better at the role, or want to try this role out, get to see this comment

@@Acex2ron Thanks. Really loving the direction of the channel so far, keep up the good work. Drake joke was hilarious lol.

Im currently trying to get better from trashlow and have found that one of the most powerful things you can do in low ranks is just go in first to tank the cc and let your carry carry, if I have something like euls and greaves Im prob gonna live a half hearted engage as a 5 and due to the fact Im playing gready 5s my teamfight impact isnt the biggest. (Mainly talking about gyro here but also phoenix works as well)

@@samueljames8654 Yes, there is definitely times as a support where you need to die in order to bait out important spells. But there's a fine line between baiting and feeding-and better players will know not to waste their big cooldowns on a pos 5. Remember, if your strategy relies on your oponents misplaying then it will never get you out of low elo since it only works on bad players. In 90% of games you're probably better off playing a less greedy support and letting your offlane tank instead. If your carry is getting CC'd, try building saves like glimmer, lotus orb or force staff. If you really want to play a suicide playstyle, maybe try playing someone more suited to diving like Tiny, Earthshaker or Spirit Breaker.

@@jackmccarthy7644 I think part of it is that people at the rank don't respect the space you can stand in, so they will go on you more in odd places more than when they actually understand the game. I think generally the places I stand are still good in better games it's more that they won't go on me so I'll get said saves off on allies instead of using them on myself

Why is this nightmare fuel? LC dueling on cd and farming while its down seems like an impactful way to play LC. What's wrong with playing around LC's power spike?

​@@SuperGGnoREbcos this playstyle for LC necessitates her to snowball through getting as many bonus duel damage as possible, which can work with core LC but it's a harder to pull off for jungler LC bcos she would need more items for this kind of playstyle to succeed in late game, which may become a problem in terms of gold distribution as now you basically have 2 carries on your team another problem is actually similar to how jungler in LoL is hated, as pub jungler LC (or any jungler in pubs really) just sux at reading the map and making plays, they ended up just kept farming for way too long

@@SuperGGnoRE 1. A jungler entirely skips laning, which in turn ruins the offlane, making it 1v2. 2. Main carry (pos 1) can't retreat to the jungle in case of a bad lane, or even when a lane is won but he wants to continue farming, because the map was much smaller back then, and didn't have enough space for 2 heroes powerfarming. 3. From said above, in case of any lane being (inevitably) lost, your team wouldnt have any team fighting capability at early clashes, because the jungler can't usually effectively farm since level 1 and jungle creeps give less exp than lane creeps, meaning he will hit lv 6 later than everyone (maybe except another roaming pos4) AND the main carry/offlane/mid can't farm already occupied jungle, meaning the team with a jungler only stands a chance of winning if by pure luck, all lanes are won or in case of lost lanes, game goes farther than 45+ minutes, where team with a jungler has an edge by having 4 carries + 1 support versus usual 3 + 2. P.S. Also, I forgot mentioning this, if a jungler is played versus a Zeus/Bloodseeker or any roaming supports like bounty hunter or Riki pos4, it's either a game over if you still decide to jungle OR you are forced to double offlane, still making your character useless (with some exceptions). To the LC jungle question, I actually had no problem and even played her myself like that on occasion, it's more about the players misunderstanding the concept of the jungler back then. You could make use of LC jungle, but you had to play in a different way from just afk jungle. 1. Never pick a jungler into a greedy pick. Imagine sharing the farm with a mid sf and an antimage. 2. After hitting lv6, leave jungle priority to pos1, pos2. Either farm enemy part of jungle (near offlane) or the farthest possible camps from where mid or carry will farm. 3. Farm until a powerspike. Get your blink and go ganking nonstop. Never stay in the jungle longer than 15 minutes, that is an obvious way to lose a game. Pick jungle only if the offlaner is strong enough where he can break even 1v2 or can solo lane. 4. Have great map awareness and effective jungle pathing. You have to constantly check the map in case someone is being towerdived, to TP in and help while simultaneously farming the jungle most efficiently. The faster you are out of the jungle, the lesser chance of losing the early game. Does this remind you of something? That's a simplified current pos 4 gameplay idea without early lane presence. Which could be sometimes good, since sometimes a strong offlaner could possibly gain more exp through solo laning, but that was very, very rare, and the polar opposite much more common. Playing this way makes sense but is risky. Seemingly, more than half of the players trying to jungle back then thought that picking jungle is equal to picking a main carry, and it's the laners job to help them stall the game until they can carry, which led them to afk jungle farming (with no idea of how to actually farm jungle effectively or any map awareness) which led to lost games. Hopefully I answered your question.

Iron Talon LC definitely wasn't the only (or even the biggest) Dota jungler. Chen, Enchantress, Enigma, and Batrider were all primary junglers at one point. The first 2 were essentially part of the safe trilane and would be ganking regularly, and the other 2 were aiming for 6-7 blink daggers to start making plays. There were also a bunch of carry junglers, which did include LC and Naix (Lifestealer) but also Nature's Prophet, Necrophos/lyte, Terrorblade, Lone Druid, Lycan, and probably some other irregulars. In the case of carry junglers, in any sensible draft they just were the pos1 and the person farming the safelane was an early/mid-game carry who was looking to make space and take towers while the jungler afk farmed. You'd see people like Bristleback, Juggernaut, Kunkka, Necrophos/lyte (with Mek+Arc boots rush), MoM sniper, etc farming for a first mid-priced item and then taking all the T1 towers to open up space. Jungling used to be a legit part of Dota and it was absolutely more than just LC cheese.

@@tehDaiquiri welll... it used to be in many ocassions 1v3 lane for offlaner; skipping lane for woods was not bad idea. Offlaners were used to be semi supports back in the days (you pick something with big impact w/o much early gold requirements, tanky if possible since it have to survive at least some plays). tbh I miss days of solo offlane 'yea, I am 0/6, I think my laning went quite well'. Junglers were basically pos 2/3 (depend on midlaner) while off was rather 4 (-global presence; I am talking about resource distribution which is base for numerical position in doto). So you had your LC, Furions, Bloodcyka, Lycans and others (passive necro killing ancients by power of smelly aura, my beloved)- most of old junglers were not pos4. They were early carries (pos1 was pretty much always lategame carry like morph, AM, phantom cancer; someone had to carry through midgame).

imo being a narcissist is required to be a good pos 2 though, those kind of people can snowball the best given the lead

​@@saif-gv6glI had a kid as a pos 2 before, and damn he was whiny as hell for having no one to "support" him. He should've picked carry lol.

Well said! Back when I was a ranked warrior, it was my off-role after Offlaner. It helps a lot that common Pos 4 heroes are some of the most fun when played well (Namely Rubick, Shaker, and Earth Spirit)

I haven't touched Smite much, but I'm very interested in Smite 2 and am waiting for it to come out!

@@Acex2ron I'd say Smite and Dota 2 are my favourite MOBAs. Smite 1 is fun mechanically but it struggles to escape its more casual atmosphere and lack of strategical depth. SMITE 2 looks like its going to be a slightly more traditional/hardcore MOBA (active items, more god flexibility, bounty runes, etc) while keeping SMITE's fast paced gameplay. Laning will still rely mostly on pushing with a reduced emphasis on last hitting and CS. I'm very curious to see how it plays out, but I'm dummy excited to see SMITE become slightly more interesting strategically.

​@@teediumTVYeah I saw a bit of Smite 1 and thought it was boring. Glad they're taking inspiration from the best moba this time.

Also i had to say, it was a real dark time when pos 4 was played as a jungler (offlane main at the time, hugging towers all the time xd)

​​@@raflyarafat4882 I was that pos4 jungler, cliffjungling in radiant triangle with Storm Spirit or Necrolyte by abusing the freshly added gg branch active. Man, I miss those days...

Well said! I very much agree with how the Jungler is in a race against their role opponent. Though I still prefer the term "Playmaking Support" because true roamers are a lost art form because there's just too much resource in lane that you're giving up and it's a risky playstyle that may not pay off, especially when staying in lane means protecting your 3, helping to secure ranged creeps, and getting extra money from the Flagbearer. That being said though, Roaming Mirana and Earth Spirit will always be a part of Dota's history.

kinda miss afk jungling as chen/ld/lc/naix/lycan back in dota 1 days

Oh god old LC jungler

Well I mean Awesomenauts also had fun tanks but they were the other exception to the rule (sentry is still the best designed tank in any game ever in my opinion).

Probably because dota / cota community figured out that in a non-linear fight, tanks are kinda obsolete and isn't entertaining if they dont pose certain threat (team debuff, CC, big teamfight ults)

Good chunk of them have really fun high end scaling. My favorite one is undying who eats drawn out fights for lunch, and sk whose late game can get so oppressive that you can force your opponent to respect you, I almost won a 1v5 but my rng wasn't nice enough to stun their pos 1 in sandstorm so I only took 2 and the team had the clean 2.

@@UsingGorillaLogic Awesomenauts really was ahead of its time...

Seems like your favorite tanks have a theme huh.

People use 3rd party sites from the beginning and the league has practice tool. You dont really need more info, league is easy, just play and hit your skills shots.

@@KEEETARO I believe that good competitve games should have enough info inside of them and intricacies are left for Wiki. If I can't open the menu and see damage numbers of enemy char spells I will need extra time to learn the game. And speaking of league's practice tool I believe it's quite barebones, isn't it? Coz in Dota's one I can simulate almost every situation just by myself.

Yeah League is very lackluster in that aspect, we've been asking for a lot of the things you mention for ages. The actual problem is that most of the code is very outdated and the client is very bad compared to other modern games.

They can't be worse than League's current Heralds x(

True. Lotuses are far more valuable for trades and kill attempts later. At 6 minute mark bounties are even more worthless coz you'd rather help the mid secure the first power rune spawn.

Well other roles focus more on mechanical execution rather than macro knowledge, so they will appreciate the stun or assassin oneshot a lot more than the smart roam and vision that made it possible. Supports nowadays get a lot more recognition than they used to get in earlier seasons, but we do also get called inflated a lot more. I think a great support is the soft foundation of most wins, but a bad one is the silent reason of many bad losses. Our impact is great, but hard to notice unless we perma gank mid.

yeah its problem in carry picks. in league you have squishy high dmg dealers that are weak until 3+ items (ofc not always but most of the time) while in dota you can have pos1 carry melee bruisers like wrait king, life stealer, pudge etc. (actual stats). so while in dota you have these beefy str carries in lol you have squishy weak champ that has one job and that is survive and dont int until you get strong (again... not always especialy on higher ranks) if you have 2v2 fight in lol at level 2 something like ashe + leona vs varus + alistar the fight will go this way: leona jump on varus and kill him solo, alistar jump on ashe and kill her solo. supports at start of the game are stronger that carries in direct fights so if you as support are worse than enemy support your carry will have really bad time. thats why supports are so hated. because its harder for good adc to carry bad support than is for good support to carry bad adc. tldr: in lol supports are stronger than carries in early and their skill is needed for carry to be able to farm and is expected of support to carry early game while in dota carry is the true carry while support support him to be even better carry.

But being first in lane gets you complete control over the bush and wave enabling you to slow push. That way you can actually use the level advantage.

You get level 2 on 9th minion and you don't have to hard push if you get to lane first, you can just secure push and then zone enemy off the wave, they can't contest otherwise they're low on health when you get level 2 and give a double on the all in, and from this point onward lane is unplayable. They might still die on the level 2 all in anyway, so not contesting push is a good setup for an awful experience

Behind the scenes: "Oh dang, the previous track ran out before I can start talking about Smite. I need more BG music." ... "Wait a second... Smite?"

@@Acex2ron Wait, HOW DID I NOT NOTICE THAT??? wpwp

Thanks! I have an NVIDIA graphics card so I use Nvidia Shadowplay to gather all of my gameplay footage. To speed up the footage gathering process, all footage from my videos are either Turbo in Dota or Quickplay in League. People don't come to this channel for high level gameplay nor skills analysis. They just need something to look at while I yap. For editing, I use Davinci Resolve, which is an absolute gem. It is a professional-grade video editing software that is available entirely for free on the internet. It's intuitive enough to use, but there are some video tutorials on RU-vid that can help. Good luck!

Thanks I appreciate it👍

I'm pleasantly surprised at the number of people who have noticed!

When iron Talon is remove there's no more

Based on a true experience. Glad you liked the vid!

I'm even more confused. Dota 2 is amazing, I can infer that much, but its extraordinary complexity and confusing item system seems like Aids. I'll never be playing it

@@matte9076 as long as you are willing to learn, Dota's mechanics are really easy to understand because they show you all the info you need while playing the game. Meanwhile in League i can't even read anything and the things i can read is filled with a wall of text with filler words instead, lol. We really need more QoL updates man.

​@@matte9076 sure don't play it. Who told you to play dota anyways?

​@@matte9076what so confusing about the item system? Info is already given to in game.

How does this have anything to do with the community?

Gotta do something to tide myself over while waiting for Robin after all! Hope you enjoyed

I was playing Undying a few months ago, and my lane partner (it was a weird game, it was hard to say which one of us was 3/4) picked Elder Titan. I have never felt so good eviscerating the enemy laners from existence.

@@Absolute_Zero7 I use to run undying beast master but then I stopped liking beastmaster so I’ve been looking for other combos

I've been playing dota for almost 2 decades and dota 2 since 2011, I have never heard of pos 4 must always blink dagger ever. Pretty sure you were getting gimped or a low rank know it all giving out misinformation.

@@fish-kt4iq The guy practically repeated the thought in the video "some heroes will at least find some use if they just get a blink dagger" is very similar to "my teammate is so useless because they don't even buy a blink dagger to be the minimum of usefulness to our team" -- IOW people in Dota 2 are always scapegoating their teammates, it doesn't matter which role they have on the team, it's never their own fault. Difference is in LoL it's traditionally 'the jungler's fault' whereas in Dota 2 it might be less likely to be 'pos 4's fault' but it's still just as easy to see people scapegoating others.

My take is that league is very into the fantasy of playing your champion. They make champions with flashy combos, they delete active items because 'they distract people from the champions' main skillsets' or something. And they make their champions 'real characters'. They have pretty art (base and skins), lore, random quirks, yada yada. Like aurora being autistic for... some reason. And most importantly, they are conventionally pleasing to the eye. Thus the 'x-main' syndrome came to be. Some people don't really like playing summoners rift all that much. Maybe they dont even like the role they are playing. But they play the champ they play because they resonate with its playstyles, its combos - its 'champion fantasies', if you will. Heck sometimes they arent even into the kit that much, they just like playing ahri or gwen because they like their designs. (This also leads to another rabbit hole on why the league community is so divided. The mains hate each other. The roles hate each other. Blah blah.) Meanwhile in dota, you don't just play your hero, you have to play the game. Since the game isn't 90% laning stage, you need to play the map, AKA play dota a lot more. Since you don't lane against your own role, and again laning doesnt last long, you actually need to know what the other roles do, and what the heroes in that role do. And what better way to learn that than to play that role for yourself? And the game forces you to play some games in both core and support roles anyways. Bam, no maining culture.

Well team still flames you to the worst and If you dare Go 0/3 on yi your litterly imidiatly Struck by ff 15 we loss anyway and one or 2 Dude insta give up hope

It depends on the game! Certain champs are very easy to invade, like Rammus, and in low elo, they're not getting help from their laners (nor are their laners warding Jungle entrances). The main benefit I believe from counter jungling is evolving your Smite to the next stage before your opponent can as they scale off of camps cleared. You also deny farm and get those resources for yourself. Just don't die!

Current patch not that much, but if you want to see peak counter jungling, watch DWG Canyon vs Peanut, DWG lost but it was mostly team diff but Canyon shut down peanut so bad that game

Mid to late game if your team took enough towers from the enemy, you can invade pretty safely and slowly choke out the enemy jungler. Levels are worth a lot of gold in stats and even a small level advantage of 1-2 levels matters a lot when fighting. In recent seasons counter jungling has been nerfed a lot, but it used to be very oppressive if you did manage to pull it off.

I remember the dark time when Ivern was meta where if you saw half of you camps you were lucky