Leaking Plumbing Pipes - NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE ? Plumber 

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Hi Alan, I've mentioned before - I think some installers fit condensate pipes last of all and don't allow enough time for glue to cure before firing the boiler. Min 8hrs should be allowed IMO.

Hi Allen - May I suggest the first thing to do is try and make contact and obtain the assistance of the pipe manufacturer's. They need to provide a technical statement to the following question - Is plastic material used in overflow and waste systems (generally PVC/ABS) suitable for contact with condensate waste water on a CONSTANT BASIS? The answer might be NO? Perhaps the pipe needs to be of a much better quality plastic type - off the shelf domestic overflow and waste systems from plumbing merchants tend to be the very cheapest of materials - I recall that Terrain were generally known for high quality plastic pipe systems - but at extra cost. Very much look forward to further updates on this situation. Keep up the great work.

As your video shows, preparing the pipes and fitting is very important and making sure they are all clean and free of anything like oil/ grease. The solvent weld is also critical, as it says it welds both materials together so if the solvent weld has started to set or turn in to a jelly-like form it's gone off and needs replacing. Condensate installation is a skilled part of our job. Both internal and external condensate pipe must be installed correctly and have the most vertical fall as possible. If the condensate holds in the pipe it could be affecting the plastic and making it brittle.

Great video and a lot there to talk/comment about as been something i have researched over the years with my heating company and then lot of R&D on all things condensate, will put in sections for comment on different parts

Terrain overflow pipe is pvc-u ,could be a answer? Definitely better quality

I've had condense pipe seeming to rot, cracks all over it. With all the problems and bits that need to be done now. Powerflushing, testing water quality. Condense insulation the list goes on. I seem to make more money out of other plumbing work than fitting new boilers.

ABS Pipe, if you talk to your plastic manufacturer there are different answers. However, when we started making the Condensate Pro kits we went with MARLEY plastics for a few reasons, one was that their technical advised me straight away that ABS SHOULD NOT! be used in exposed sunlight ( UV ) and you should use PVC. This was not a problem for Condensate Pro; we can use ABS as our pipework is not exposed to UV as it is insulated just like all external condensates should be. Many have the misconception that 32mm or 40mm does not need to be insulated which is 100% incorrect and not in any MI's or BS 6798 ( If anyone has an up to date MI's or info saying it is ok, please comment and show). However that aside, could the problem be a mixture of UV / heat/cold and the acidic water of the condensate reacting and making ABS pipe brittle?

Old brittle condensate pipe is lethal. I once went through it with a cutter and it shattered on an installation. I had a water drop when I was disconnecting the pipe work. Quick reaction to grab a tub and the condy pipe ripped me like a bayonet 🙄🤪🤪

The very high acidity of condensate seems to be attacking the first meter or so of condensate runs, repaired another one last week.

So far I've only had one that I've fitted go brittle/cracked and to be fair it probably didn't have a great enough fall so was catching in the elbow. Ive fixed a few I hadnt fitted though. Will be watching for updates on this.

Think this video is really good 👍👍👍👍

Maybe the answer is to use push fit fittings and make replacing periodically? My view is the condensate carries products of combustion and is acidic and that is something the plastic pipes cannot endure. Alternatively it may be worth taking something from the marine industry. Yachts and motorboats use a ‘wet exhaust’ system where engine raw water is injected into the exhaust system to cool it before it is discharged by a rubber type pipe overboard. These pipes last upwards of 10 years.

I've not had many problems with overflow 21.5mm pipe and fittings failing but this is great to see and learn for others what they think and have found. As we know, 21.5mm overflow must be solvent weld and again fitted correctly and only used inside the fabric of the building. If fitted in an unheated area, the condensate must be treated as external, upsizing to 32mm and insulating, making sure all the joints are sealed. It does not have to be UV protected so 35mm x 13mm tubolit is the best option and cost-effective. Some in your video are obviously not fitted correctly and will hold the condensate water. Are some materials cheaper quality than others and is this a problem or is it just down to the installer?

Another problem could be that the pipe has not been cut square or not butted up to the inside of the fitting, This could then leave some condensate in the gap that could affect the pipe when you see condensates installed many looks like some afterthought, However as we can see in this video, they need to be installed and also protected correctly to protect customer/boiler/warranty Hydrogen is 100% going to be part of our industry's future which will produce a lot more condensate so quality professional must make it a priority on any new boiler or services

From pics you showed looks like glue is going eaten by condensate. Other people commented to contact pipe manufacturer, they will be no help, they won't ever admit fault.

I love looking at Batley lasses pipework...😎😎🤣

I've come across many condensate solvent weld pipe fittings leaking. Myself and other colleagues have started using compression 19mm fittings where exposed internally to repair leaking joints.

My pipe cracked and split leaving dripping condensate to get on wooden floor in airing cupboard causing rot, didn't spot it until a lot of damage done.

Many in the past, including heating companies and boiler manufacturers, have information and videos (still on the net today), advising Homeowners to pour hot water (many showing a kettle) to unfreeze condensates, this is not only VERY dangerous but will also affect or crack the plastic pipe so should never be advised. Will that have a long-lasting effect even if it does not crack straight away?

ABS pipe is prone to becoming brittle over time. Exposure to some chemicals, UV light, or ozone will all drive the embrittlement even faster. Black ABS is longer lasting in UV light. Using excess solvent weld, or especially using the wrong type of solvent weld is also bad for these pipes, as the solvent penetrates deep into the plastic and weakens it. Despite the embrittlement over time, ABS pipes can last a long time if there's no stress acting on them, what will happen is that as the pipe gets weaker over time it eventually becomes too brittle to handle the stress at a fitting, or if its bent slightly around another pipe for example, and it will crack at those places. The solution would be using PEX or PVC pipe instead (but I don't know whether the regulations or manufacturers instructions restrict the types of plastic you can use for condensate pipes). It would also help to be very careful about making sure the pipe isn't under any stress - as in not clipping it in tightly making the pipe flex. @5:20, it doesn't look like those pipes are cracked, maybe these fittings are just pushed together and the installer didn't bother to cement them?

i think this pipe broke in side my house. its a real pain as i cant access it atall. its behind loads of cabinets but i can see its completly snapped. i assume its also snapped where i cant even see it.

I recently bought aplastic cutter in 40 and 32 on the same one from toolstation.22.99

You can use pvc-u (tangit glue has a high chemical resistance) or polypropylene pipe (socket fusion) quite expensive though we use it in clean water sites dowsing all sorts of chemicals

My waste pipe goes down into the front lounge and the pipe stops and putting it under my floor boards

I think that a good solution would be for the manufacturers to have some sort of condensate neutralizer inside the trap or something along those lines before it even leaves the boiler. Could be installer error (pipe under tension, poor quality fittings, not enough solvent etc). Tough one.

Hi, I always use pvc (mupvc) waste and overflow for condense pipework Never had a problem. Also keston boiler used to use waste pipe as flue and it specified NOT to use abs pipe but that may of been just to do with problem abs has with ultraviolet light. Also gluing abs and pvc together is not good as it has a bad reaction and will fail. Hence I only use pvc. Hope this helps. Also are some installers not gluing the overflow fittings?

Boiler Condensate would have a PH of 3 to 4 and it seems there's various Building Regs for Domestic Plumbing installs, but might be little short in regard to specific regs for condensate pipework standards, relying as Per Boiler Manufactures recommendations, maybe there should be robust regulations set out as it seems 5 Mins in one can see crazing lines on the 90 Elbow... having worked in Big Pharma some crazy things would happen when one had low or high PH, COMBINED with High process liquid temperatures to even Exotic plastic pipes ... So maybe Tundish with fairly long gravity drop into same could help allowing for to to cool the discharge condensate rather than those in line Air Breaks as fitted on some installs could help... as standard Gas boiler discharge condensate is laced with Nitric Acid, while Oil Boilers discharges contains a mixture of nitric and sulphuric acids the pipes seem to be a weak point ... seemly could be a ticking Time Bomb... possibly individual Heating Engineers will have to step up and look towards heavier Wall more Acid resisting Pipe as sort of Belt and Braces Install...and show the customer the reason why they are going down that route, i'm sure they would appreciate care taken why you're going down that route...no one wants an Insurance Claim down the Road...modbs.co.uk/news/fullstory.php/aid/6031/Practise_safe_condensate_handling.html

also to insulate a pipe there needs to be heat to keep in the envelope, best way is low limit heat tape with auto frost control.

Ideal must use the same abs plastics on their logic sumps. It's probably why the sump fractures and fails. The band B boilers produced less acidic condensate. Maybe BS and other international standards were permissible back then and have been the set industry standard since. I find joints are less prone to failure in condensate If clipped properly. If in contact with UV light abs plastic pipes and joints also prematurely fail. Internally the heat from the pipes probably accelerate the process of damage too.

Hey pal, Maybe we can contact Vulcathene and see if they would bring their products to our 21.5, 30, 42 and 50mm market and also see if they make a solvent weld version? I am sure there is a large part of the market they could cover.

Is the cleaner reacting with the condensate and does this weaken the pipe? Is the plastic fit for purpose as its intended use was to carry water only? Should we being using a purpose made pipe that doesnt crack or split with the acidity of condensate?

As an apprentice i did some work in a laboratory where they used all sorts of chemicals but the waste pipe wasnt abs as i remember

If the condensate pipe is sited internally does its diameter still have to be 32 mm?

I am occasionally seeing white solvent weld pipe turning sort of "chalky" , if you scratch it with something it does tends to disintegrate. Never seen it happen to black pipe though. I do think you are on to something here. The weather looks poor in Leeds, it's much better here in Huddersfield.😉

EPDM Foam Rubber Insulation i have been looking at

I'm coming across this alot lately

In the states they fit neutralisers below the boiler. Think someone here has created condensate neutralisers. Might be poor grade abs/overflow.

I've had this on two jobs this week. I installed one boiler 3 years ago and the other one 4 years and have just been to carry out their routine service. Each had a leak on a condensate elbow.... I've just been racking my brain as to the other ones I've had and I tend to feel the leaks on fittings tend to be elbows... I wonder whether it's due to the fact the water can sit in an elbow more so than a 45° or a socket? Definitely an issue with the materials we use which needs an alternative

Most of the ones I have been to look like they didn't use much glue. But some of these in your vid look like they're rotting through.

Is the condensate sitting in the pipe or does it fall away, is this speeding up the problem ? Most condensate problems i come across are due to people not glueing both surfaces etc

I would think if the condense is acidic you would need to use a poly type plastic Acid will eat through some plastics and not others Maybe have the condensed water tested and find a pipe that is impervious to that chemical formula 👍

Alan how can i send u a video of a waterheater fault m8

Surely it’s because plastics go brittle with age, and will fracture if subject to thermal movements. The answer is don’t use plastic for any plumbing, no matter what the manufacturers claim.

try mupvc rather than abs, valcathine is the very best though as long as your spending others money

The acid in the condense is all I can think of.

As professional gas engineer has to avoid plastic pipe in installation in boiler

Simple answer ‘Osma’!! Their ABS etc doesn’t have the same finish as most of the other manufacturers, it’s a dull mat finish, most if not all the problems I’ve seen, it’s been Osma. Their ABS doesn’t even have that ABS smell when you cut it with a Hacksaw. There’s definitely something in their production process that differs from the others. Even Polyshite’s ABS is better, but Marley Plastic will always be the best!! Nice Van Elliot........Fiat(Fix it again Toni)...........😂😂😂😂😂

Allen Hart promise to had send video of demo and install..man was over zealous .totally forgot about the codeo.

you should all so say the pipe cutters have a spare blade in side the cutter

Same pH as vinegar

👍🤓👍

How do condensate pipes freeze? Is it not like a drain pipe and not hold water? I had this fitted to my boiler this year and the pipe runs from the front of the house to the back under the floor, hope this doesn’t leak www.saniflo.co.uk/installing-a-boiler-or-air-conditioner/85-sanicondens-pro.html

Use terrain and not osma

bad wokman ship

ABS is shit, UPVC much better.