Leaning to the Edge: How Far is Too Far? 

A little off topic but I'm curious to your view ! Should I be pulling or pushing the handlebars in hard turns ? I have a tendency to pull the handlebars more than pushing on them

Kjjj

I'm riding a125grom. I'm learning. My bff is an EMT. Lesson I learn is just be one gear up from gear down. That way you'll putter through with no spin out. In a car I'll tail whip that mofo corner. Oh a bike. Nope!

What about the road snakes ... they should add sand to the stuff.?.

Especially the cities that never sand blast the old lines prior to painting new ones. All those little divits in normal asphalt and concrete that Kevin was talking about get filled with paint and the street becomes a skid pan in the rain. Don't panic was great advice. Just let the bike do its thing, decrease your angle slowly and do not touch the brakes.

Amen!

@@caseykelso1 amen!

@burningfeet 53 Amen, really.

Large, loosely coupled ballast weight.

For some mysterious reason, my tire traction seems to be getting more enhanced as I get older.

Hahaha. Golden comment. Using this.

a friend of mine told me that he started riding from 5.. I said to him that was child negligence.. :P other times I guess..

I’m the same and also raced motor cross but I believe it why I’m now learning why I do what I do besides it just works. Lol I’ve rode since I was 5 and now I’m 40 and new to the cruiser life but love it.

@@chrispap4766 my oldest started at 4, youngest at 3 without training wheels. They've broken more bones at recess at school than 12 years of mx...competing at a national level. So, to each his own.

@@jiismo why not let them fly an airplane also.. they have less accidents than other means of transport..

I like the Moto Man's channel, the police are the best riders out there. I would rather learn from the guy who teaches the police, they know more than this channel ever could. This MC Rider guy talks too much, all of his videos are him jabbering and just a tiny bit of field camera - no thanks. If this dude cannot ride and teach, forget it.

Same! Roundabouts are the worst because I just worry now!

@@DamionHD knowing it is all in your mind makes you think to much. Being able to take that corner in a normal way instead of flat 45degrees does not make you a bad rider. Just take your time.

@@DamionHD Roundabouts are dreadful, learned that the hard way at 35mph fully cranked over, I was being an idiot to be honest.

Thanks Juan, good point.

Tar snakes, just as bad as paint. But that deviates from the "perfect conditions" of the discussion.

Just rained and got on the paint and before I knew it I was looking at ski! Never did that again

Drain and sewer covers are also very slippery when wet - but quite grippy when dry. Diesel fuel dropped by trucks on corners is also lethal, wet or dry.

@@colinsouthern The heat here in Florida also contributes to making paint, tar snakes even more slippery.

Thanks Roger.

Very true! It seems like everyone on RU-vid just tries to put in as many words per minute as possible with jump cuts. Much prefer this natural speed of talking.

Roger Rondeau: amen to that! My brain needs a slower speed so it can really digest and process what's being said. He has it spot on.

@@MCrider i just started riding after 25 years i went from a yamaha 650 special to a yamaha vstar 1100 your videos help reenforce a lot of things you forget thanks

any accidents?

LOL, it does for me too.

If you feel a wiggle in the rear while going straight, stop check tyre pressure, may have picked up a nail or something and tyre is going flat.

My seat has a hole in it ;)

You aren't kidding, Jestin. lol

yep, I rarely have that problem on my sporty, but when I do I thank the gods that I started out riding on dirt!

Scott 77 same here...

I totally agree with you. Its great when you realize that there are more people whose minds "work" like yours :-)

Scott 77 same to me returning on motorcycle after ten years. Then it was a 1993 yamaha virago 535 cc, now it is a 1984 honda v65 magna. This dude´s channel very useful.

I came back to riding about 3 years ago after a lul of about 35 years! Decided it was time to ride again after a bad accident when I was 19. Took the local motorcycle course (even tho I still had my mc licence) to brush up and feel comfortable again...it helped a lot. All the other guys/kids in the course couldn't understand WHY I would spend 300.00 to take the course if I didn't need to..lol. They'll understand one day. Now..I keep updated on good technique by watching channels like this one and learning a few things I never knew and was never taught. AND hitting an empty parking lot once a week for 15 minutes to practice some sloooooow speed maneuvers and hard braking. Just started using different types of lane positioning for better visibility last year after seeing it talked about on one of these channels. Good way to stay visible and stay alive. A lot of this stuff just isn't taught in mc courses. Enjoying having a bike again. And love the fact that I am MUCH more knowledgeable and safer than I was. All thanks to videos like these.

I'm like you SJ. I had a break of 32 years and just came back to riding 8 months ago. I took two private 1-2-1 lessons of 3-4 hours each, plus I took a Police Riding Course (Wiltshire Motorcycle Police, England). Slowly beginning to get my confidence back - instructional videos like MCRider really help too. Ride safe buddy.

That’s a healthy fear!

It really is

juliesfar that’s not unhealthy

Me too!

gone over a few times on gravel , going at a snails pace

First off Mr Kevin thank you for all of your helpful videos. I'm going to watch all of them lol as I get the chance to do so. Ok now my question can you please try to help me understand why I feel so positive and strong when I make right turns I slide off my seat with much comfort and I can rip through the turn and feel great about it etc....... But when it comes to making a left turn I have a day and night different attitude and style and not nearly as confident I hope that you can help please let me know. Thanks oh and anyone on this please share thanks oh and I ride a old school 2004 zx7r thanks again.

He is

As far as tires not needing to warm up, I disagree. If you try to quick-flick into a turn on cold tires you WILL tuck under. If you drive out on a cold tire you will spool up and likely lowside.

@@freeknet2000 in what scenario would you "quick flick" a road bike after just leaving the garage? I said the rider needs to warm up-thus 20minutes or so of settling in on the bike and adjusting brain to the days riding conditions- time of day and weather. etc. On a track day, fair enough, tyre warmers or warm up laps. The road surface you think you know like the back of your hand may have a coating of dust/gravel/fuel today, hot tyres won't make any difference. Good roads and weather to you sir and home safe every ride.

heya, im watching heaps of these vids too.. dont even have the money for a bike yet xD .. cant wait

It has.

chris pomphrett I did a similar thing in highschool with my car on snow. I didn't realize what I was doing at the time, I was just being stupid and having fun but drifting around corners and doing power slides actually taught me a LOT about vehicle limits on snow/ice and I'm a million times more comfortable because of it

Good one!, I reckon everyone should do a bit of time on a skid pan, or off road or better still, using someone else's vehicle!

chris pomphrett z

Good story and I completely agree and did what you did with my 83 Mustang GT when I was in High School. My buddy (who had an 84 Camaro) and I used to go to the back parking lot of a K-Mart, which had the garden section out back and watered every night, to play. We'd do 180's hitting the e-brake, down shifting into 2nd and coming around perfectly without hitting a light pole. haha We'd out do each other in most 36o's in a row, J-turns, having fun. Today I'm 50 years old and I have never wrecked a car of mine (all but one having V-8's) and I never panic when the rear slips. Best experience for driving in my life and pays off. I ride a K3 GSXR600 have never laid my bike down either...knock on wood. I'd recommend teaching your kids this fun and safe way to experience sliding, drifting and spinning their wheels. Hats off to you

Omfg XD

You can brake in a curve but you need to feather them, no grabbing handfuls just very easy light braking to drag you down a couple of MPH, I'm old too but ride very fast mostly with 44 years of twisties under my belt, I don't do highways just country roads.

Excellent explanation. Thank you very much for offering such an interesting point of view. I am a marine engineer and love to hear the opinions of people who own knowledge about a subject. Kevin's videos are simply great, I have learned a lot, and the comments of people who watch them are half the reason why I subcribed.

MCRider still makes the best instructional videos. Keep at it! I've always learned that so much depends on keeping a smooth application of throttle to keep weight on that back tyre to maintain optimal grip (as you say: no brakes of chopping) and that even when there's a slight slide, you still have a decent margin of traction.

They may be able to generate a lot of traction, but not as much. My local race track, Lime Rock, is unsafe for motorcycles because of the worn-out (i.e. smooth) tarmac. If the increase in contact area played a subordinate role in creating friction, we would not need textured grips on anything - like your throttle.

Mattias, The coefficient of friction depends on the materials in contact. Many roads that are worn smooth have had the high traction rock/gravel pressed down into the surface exposing the much lower traction oil based asphalt binder. Pure asphalt, especially when heated by the sun, is slick as snot.

And not a day after I wrote that, I slide out of a corner. First crash...

Thank you for the support Victor!

Link your Vulcan forum, please! New rider and need all the tips I can get.

Victor Hawkins , hey Victor . I sold mine awhile back , a 2006 VN2000 switchblade windshield , Vance Hines power shots 'shorts' , and eventually I put a Michelin hydro edge on the rear as 5000 miles max on a rear tire was a pain. Have you found out the top end on your bike yet ? LOL ! Not sure if you have a classic or the VN or if they are the same but I'd suspect they are . Last I knew for a production V twin stock it holds the speed record at the 'flats' . Also that was low at around 130 mph . Let me tell you a secret . . . .=-) . As you said you are a nubie and not familiar with the bike yet so I don't recommend you do this. I've been riding since I was six and now old enough to know better . . .well over 55 . . . . Yeah a speed limit dig . Anyway your bike if like mine and a buddy's ( both bought same time same dealer just different paint ) both would do the same thing. If run to limiter through the gears they will only do about 134 mph . However if you are in high gear and roll the throttle they will run the speedo out of numbers every time . We'd usually let off at 150 - 155 mph to not damage the speedo . One night me and an Audi R8 got playing he was behind me and didn't want to pass and had come up on meat night and I was running 100 at the time going home after night shift . I'd seen him as I went through an intersection a few miles back and he'd flashed his lights . I'd just left a gas station after topping the tank . Like I say he came up behind me but was civil . We ran a while like that and when the road and lack of side roads allowed I rolled it on . Sitting up without windshield on . At 150 he was still there ( On GPS also ) so I did something I rarely ever do and only did the one time on this bike . I got flat on the tank and put it on the stops . He stayed until around 155 mph probably limited ? I never let off figuring it was a good time to break the speedo . The speedo was about a third into the odometer and my GPS had prior to this exceeded the Velcro holding it . Guessing , I'd say around 170 - 175 ? The speedo was accurate as I'd made sure the actual diameter of the tire corrected it when I put the speed rated tire on the rear. Now you know so you don't have to find out . I was running beside a Buel at 142 mph sitting straight up and he was all flat could have left him sitting as he didn't have anymore but he thought he was winning and luckily I backed off as we were approaching a box van at speed as soon as I did he cut left and passed the van almost hitting a semi head on in a 'blind' pass . He didn't know I was there . . . . So ,ride safe not stupid like me . I no longer ride as my back doesn't allow it , I even sold my 2008 GL1800 full dressed Goldwing with a trike kit for the same reason. Enjoy it and ride safe it's the best bike I've ever owned . Had two problems . . . . the speedo quit while still new , warranty replaced it . After that the dealership was the problem . Bike would misfire at high-speed and kept getting worse . They replaced the TPS ( Complete throttle body ) then when that didn't fix it they replaced the computer still didn't fix it . Finally a factory trained 'Spider specialist' being trained on electrical problems took a look at it as he was there fixing Spider warranty electrical issues . Found the main wiring harness was bad all while still under warranty . That fixed the problem . I sold the bike with 187,000 miles on it and it still ran great and a leak down showed no loss of compression . My buddy who bought the same bike at the same time has yet to break 10,000 I sold mine four years ago . . . . I rode it every day 100 miles round trip to work plus the wife and I would do any bike event we could in Florida . I couldn't stand to let it just sit and my back is so bad I didn't want to risk a wheel chair . It still ran great as I'd start it and run it to keep things lubed . One more thing I changed oil every 2000 miles and if you change your own oil . The small drain on the left is prone to strip out ! It drains the wet clutch case , there also are three drain plugs for the oil . OK , enough book . I have a shop manual and a rear seat off the 'Custom' 2000 the wife rode on instead of the 'bitchpad' the VN came with a direct fit reasonable upgrade . Be well , and ride safe .

Jared Lozano , don't ride alone if you can help it ! Size or numbers does matter as well as noise also not that it is true but look at every cage as though the driver has a grudge against you . Also if they do something wrong and get you busted up odds are the court will rule in their favor . Just so you know . Be well , ride safe .

I agree 100%. I like Michelin Pilot Roads myself, 3s or 4s, depending on what's available for my bikes.

Absolutely. I put Dunlop Sportmax Q3s on my CBR1100. The bike is capable of more than I am as a rider. I'd rather buy tires more frequently than pay hospital bills.

Gary Horn... When you pegs or footboards scrape the road it’s the motorcycle telling you you are now out of lean angle. It’s nothing to fear, in fact, police/civilian slow riding schools, we are told it should be music to our ears. I highly recommend that you look into a Ride Like A Pro school near you. You will learn a civilianized version of police training (not nearly as tight). You’ll be amazed at how much better your skills will become in your confidence will grow by training at 5 to 10 mph. Be encouraged.

You can go harder to the right then the left or the center stand will jack the rear off the road, if you are very lucky it will not end up a very bad day!

Keith Otto That assumes your motor has a center stand. Harleys don’t, so, Kevin is correct on the 34 degree lean angle both ways on his (and my) Road King.

Only scrape the pegs at night. The sparks are wasted in the daytime.

I've ground the pins off the bottom of my foot pegs due to hard leans, ( I have a 2002 Honda Shadow Spirit DC ).

SJMudTurtle Cruises Similar thing happened to me after about a year of riding. I got overly confident in my cornering abilities and went into a corner on my sport bike way too fast. I thought I'm going to crash, but all of a sudden my MSF instructor's voice popped into my head. Funny how that happens. I heard him say if I'm headed into a corner too fast just stay off the brakes, lean into the corner and stay on the throttle and 9 times out of 10 you'll be ok. I came out of the corner just fine that day and I learned a valuable lesson to ride within my limits. Those MSF courses really do save lives. Glad you didn't wreck. Ride safe. Summer.

Indeed, the time to be worrying about things like that is generally before you get into the curve. Once you're in the curve, it's a lot easier to cause a crash than it is to avoid one. Especially for beginners. The fortunate thing is that with modern motorcycles, the bike itself is usually better than the rider, so you're more likely to be the thing that causes the actual crash in that situation than the bike itself.

Chris L the one thing hubby drilled in my head (he's been riding for 40+ yrs ) is never panic. If you get over your head stay calm and let what you learned and practice kick in.

SJMudTurtle Cruises I think we’ve all been there. I remember being told that low side is always better than high side, if you’re gonna crash better to slip under than to outrun your road. At least with a low side you have a chance to make it through the turn. LOOK FURTHER, LEAN MORE, AND PULL HARDER.

SJMudTurtle Cruises Don't know what you're riding lady but if its a sportsbike there should be no 'line' on that tyre, the rubber outside those lines are called 'chicken strips' and you need them off because when it comes to that bend you didn't anticipate correctly and you have to lean further than you normally would traction goes all to fk as you're riding on a bit of brand new rubber you didn't ever bed in, so either sand those chicken strips off or ride em off by going progressively lower as you corner. If you're on a cruiser forget it, you'll grind the footpegs away long before you get rid of those strips.

Thanks I appreciate it.

Gavin Kerber ..”I wasn’t really thinking of what I was doing”...yes, knowledge is essential, and muscle memory is incredibly helpful, but respectfully I would suggest that concentration is the most important of all.

I'm glad it worked out for you. I really wish fellow bikers would slow down. Every time I hear of a fellow biker being injured or killed, it hurts me personally. Be safe Gavin... don't want to read about you in the paper.

Thanks guys, I've ridden dirt for years but the pavement is a totally different ball park. I've got a lot to learn haha. And yea I'd agree with you there Ronan, it was almost like I suddenly lost all the knowledge I had about how to turn a bike and all I could think was "boy sure would suck if I dumped this brand new bike."

look where u want to go and to stop the bucking you can throttle out

Thanks for the advice D man, I got the looking ahead part down. It's just the surface is totally new to me haha.

Good point Mike!

He said very clearly "soft rubber has more traction than hard rubber" There's your temperature lecture right there.

Larry House Hi Larry,. Soft rubber in not related to temperature but composition. Even the softest rubber compound will loose friction as temps drop.

I second that. Soft sport oriented tires are notoriously more slippery when cold as compared to harder touring tires. So there is a little more to it than the general softness of the rubber. The video, I believe assumes warmed up equipment in steady state conditions.

I notice that when watching NASCAR races they always say that they lose grip when the temperature is really hot. Leads me to believe there is a temperature curve where really cold and really hot asphalt are both more slick.

Point to be noted! Totally agree!

Also, the coefficient between a tyre and asphalt may still be good in the wet, but the same can't be said for white lines, manhole covers, polymer repaired pavement (tar snakes), and other general debris you might find on the road. Further, static friction might be good between a tyre and road, but dynamic friction is lower. So, when the tyre starts to slip, it's more likely to keep slipping.

didnt even think about tires being colled off by wet road,thanks for sharing

Welcome!

How much sport bike rider and I always used to write soft compound tires you're well. I recently got a new bike and I'm riding hard tires for the first time. I will definitely keep this in mind.

We are glad your shins survived 😀

Your riding too rigid I take snakes even without holding the bars, if you fight it you will fall, let the bike do the work! Not your arms!

@@aaronratliff9576 exactly, also different tire brands on certain bikes react differently to tar snakes. for me I have found Avon or Pirelli seem to handle lines and snakes

Did you ever get another bike?

You mean .. prayers

@@g496r500t nope

Frank Latorraca Not to mention the debris. Northern NJ has so much damn roadwork going on.

Doesn't even matter what tyres you have everything will slip on that stuff

Yep! I was just out yesterday (I live in Wayne) and ya gotta go easy on those turns. It's all about keeping one's speed under control . . .

In Michigan the curves get a fresh covering with sand every time it rains in the summer even

Frank Latorraca , wet leaves in the Fall are a bundle of joy too ! ! ;-)

Hey thanks. I've ridden streetbikes over 600,000 miles,but am always learning and honing my skills. And one must view the constant challenge of staying safe while riding,as one of the joys of riding. To a degree,our actions on our motorcycles affect the other motorists around us. How we manage them has a tremendous effect on our safety. I never assume that I'm visible to other motorists or that their reactions will be at all in my favor or what I desire. I remain prepared for the unexpected.

And as years of being a professional motorcycle mechanic,I've found that nothing affects the handling of a motorcycle more than tire pressure. Low tire psi creates a very dangerous situation. Motorcycle tires need to be checked at least once a month.

Man, my tyres are never going to slip!!

Same here...lol

I'm telling my wife it's a 'safety feature' from now on.

Its called locktight 🤪

another positive about the traction enhancer is that its portable from bike to bike.

I was quite good at math (not my judgement, others have said so). I still slow down 🤣

You can say that again! I carry Tums to settle my stomach due to those critters, LOL! Arizona is full of tar snakes, nice and hot and slippery. They can ruin your line in a curve real quick, as I have discovered.

ruhl1337 How wide the tar snakes? Less than 2" won't cause the bike to fall (assuming you have a little something in reserve as you should on public roads). Be wary but don't let them scare you stiff otherwise you might create a situation far more dangerous than the little step out they cause if you just ride through them.

How bout a grooved drawbridge. Crap my pants every time

@@stevegraw Same here in Florida. Paint and tar snakes heat up and become much more slippery. Do my best to avoid that stuff especially when cornering.

I hit some tar snakes in 111° weather southern AZ. It did feel as if I could lose it. Slowed me down a lot. I wasn't riding hard to be again with. 25mph corner I was pulling it at 30+/-. Once it stepped out I was pulling them at 20+/-. Something to watch for in hot weather for sure.