I thought you might include the old CFI ground school - night flying joke. "If you are flying at night (SEL) and have an engine failure, as you approach the ground - turn ON your landing light. ........... If you don't like what you see, turn it OFF". (1974 my CFI Ron Yancey)
I just completed my first night flight as a student pilot and loved it. Granted, smooth air and cooler temps is much better than 100F on the ground with gusts and thermals in the Texas Summer. I asked my instructor how engine failure is handled at night. The main takeaway from our convo was that altitude = options. Looking ahead, I will plan night cross country flights at the highest reasonable altitude for the route, consider requiring a certain minimum ceiling, and try to include lighted airfields within gliding distance of my course as best as I can.
I prefer to avoid dark regions in night flying for emergencies. Dark spaces hide mountains, cliffs, buildings that are not lit at night, high tension powerlines, etc. I've seen first hand what can hide completely in unlit regions if you're not already familiar with the area you're flying over. In a big city I'd go for the biggest road I can find (freeways) to ensure I am not heading for dangerous terrain or dark factories. I can't swim (yet) unfortunately, so not going there unless I can land in shallow water. Tons of successful emergency landings happen on roads all the time even with traffic, yet everyone says it's too dangerous, I don't understand this. I dim my interior lights all the time, even in my car. I also bring/use a red light headlamp incase. If you don't have many city lights, are flying in mountainous terrain, and don't have good illumination from the moon, I recommend against at night flying unless on an IFR flight plan. Plenty of times when night flying is 100% legal, but also Extremely unsafe.
Going for a road is for sure the safest option for you as a pilot but it is also the most selfish option as it carries a higher risk for innocent people on the ground. A non-busy country highway in the middle of the night is one thing but a potentially busy road Id rather ditch or fly into an unknown field than risk somebody on the ground. Like he alluded to in the video, people on the ground should come first as we are the ones choosing to take the risk of flying.
@@yppers You're more likely to flip in a random field in the dark. If landing on a road is so dangerous, show me the statistics. In many cities it's either a road or a house. Which is less selfish? As an individual i am no obligated to commit suicide on the chance someone else might die, however unlikely. I'm trying to minimize damage overall, not to maximize damage to myself even when unnecessary. Statistics show that landing upright is 95% survivable. Landing upside down is as low as 10% survivable. I'm not going to risk landing into a black hole at night that might be a hill, or a building.
@@SoloRenegade If you got an empty road go for it, but if you get close and there is a car coming the other way that you can't easily avoid you have an obligation as a pilot to put thier safety above your own.
@@yppers Sure, but in large cities there are usually 2+ lane freeways to choose from, or other wide multilane streets. In more rural areas it's not that hard to find roads with little to no traffic (I've practiced this quite a bit, including in predominantly forested, mountainous, and/or desert terrains). As a CFI I always teach my students that their responsibility is not just to themselves, their passengers, and to the aircraft, but to everyone below them within gliding distance of them at any given moment. And I also teach them to prioritize people over saving the aircraft. But you don't just fly into a blackhole in the dark of night, that's basically suicide. Ever fly in Phoenix, AZ low level at night? Lots of black holes within the city, and there is No way you will survive if you assume they are safe landing spots. They are shear mountains, high tension powerlines, etc. Other places you might fare better (flatter places, open desert, lots of farm fields...), but if you can't see what you're flying into, vs taking a good lit street with visible traffic (or lack there of) and landing with the flow of traffic..... I know of Many successful landings on streets in town with traffic (even single lane each way) where no one was killed. The only ones I can think of off the top of my head where people died, the plane came down not under control (stall/spin, crashing into the street or buildings rather than a controlled landing). I'm sure there are examples. But I'm also an advocate for not flying at night without illumination from the moon, especially in unfamiliar territory, unless on IFR flight plan. I've flown in pitch black nights VFR, in both flat and mountainous regions, and I would not consider it safe (and I was even familiar with my surroundings on those flights). On certain nights, you could fly into a cloud and never know it, or not see the mountain coming if unfamiliar and not situationally aware (I try to fly airways and minimum safe altitudes or higher at night just incase)
@@SoloRenegade I feel like the anti-road sentiment is knee-jerk reaction to the recent incident in Florida... I mean he mentions potentially killing a child. But as you rightly pointed out, very different scenarios as they stalled in trying not to land off field. Controlled landing on a freeway/large arterial road in the direction of traffic would be choice #1 the way I see it.
Another great content Jason. Love your videos man. I gotta make one point though on choosing dark emergency landing sites. In your case, you know the area and you saw the lake bcos the night was moon lit. But for those who fly in mountainous areas, consider that a dark spot could just as conveniently be a mountain. I don't recommend landing in the dark in unfamiliar places. I agree with considering the safety of those on the ground as well 100%. Personally, I'd glide towards a highway. As you get lower, traffic behind you will see you and slow down and eventually stop for you. Just be sure to land with the flow of traffic, not against, and stir away from any vehicle. Thanks again man. Keep 'em coming!
Enjoyed it Jason! Love night flying! Another lesson to be learned here is being able to ID your airport of intending landing especially on a cross country where you may not be familiar with that airport. Almost 2 years ago I flew into Nashville late one night and what I though was going to be an easy ID of a Class C airport proved me waaaay wrong. I could have chosen to load up an approach and honestly I should have or at least in my case have a Garmin 750 I could have loaded the visual or enabled extended runway centerlines on Foreflight. But I did not and in the terminal area I was 2000' too high and ended chopping the power and nearly diving and driving once I could ID the airport environment and runway lights. Huge lesson learned on my part and super controllers in Nashville that helped get me in.
Water would be my 1st choice, dark areas may have hidden obstacles that you may not see or know about until it’s too late....If I know the area, then dark spots would move up a notch.....
I always watch your shows, jason, and agree with you on everything except for when I saw your night flying video, I am launching a aviation safety RU-vid show this week and it's called I follow roads and at night highways are not congested and they would be my first choice, landing with the traffic, over Oakland and I don't think I would kill a kid because these landings almost always come out very well and it's a calculated risk worth taking because chances are very good it will come out well, I hope you watch my show when you see it and let me know what you think.
Great tips Jason. I did my rating in Toronto in the middle of winter some years back & the contrast between downtown & lake ontario was amazing to see.
Good thoughts Jason... the areas here in North East Texas come with some "gotchas"... NE Texas is covered in pine timber (100' tall), hardwood bottoms, wetlands and lakes. At night the lakes and forested areas look the same from the air especially w/o GPS with a moving map and/or ForeFlight pulled up... And the towns and/or larger cities are spread out 15 - 20 miles apart and others are 20+ miles apart with nothing but darkness between them with a few scattered lights of farms and/or outlying subdivisions near major roads. As some of these road have lights along them and very limited traffic at night, it sometimes can become a better option for us here in this area.
Jason, Loving your channel but i have to be ticky tack here being a veteran. Ive been watching your videos and when you give the time you say OH900 etc. That was a noh noh in the military its pronounced as zero nine hundred. Each time you say Oh i here drop and give me 20. LOL keep up the good work Teach & Learn always!
Go to the emptiest road, don't play around going to the darkest area or sea. what now if the darkest area is a forest or mountain, or houses that are not lighted up or a tremendous bit hole whatever you name it, ahmmm
I was born and raised in SE Nebraska. One of my favorite times to fly at night was January when there was snow on the ground and a full moon and crystal clear skies. The bad part of that is the preflight and prep in often near zero temps or sometimes even sub zero temps. But once airborne the air is super smooth and the visibility is fabulous. Coming back you again get to enjoy the cold weather as you fuel the plane and put it away in the Hangar. But it was all very well worth it. Thanks Jason. Great tips and tricks as always.
I totally hear Jason's concerns about roads but why not consider a road that has almost no cars on it? This could be a very viable option outside of metropolitan areas. Also in your case over Oakland Jason I would consider Lake Merritt. Depending on how close you are maybe the old NAS Alameda.
Night flying is the greatest thing on Earth. (Well not actually on Earth). Cruising along with some good classical music in your headset, and flying "into " the stars and moon, is the absolute greatest experience imaginable. A friend once asked why I did not have health insurance. I said I do, the very best, come with me tonight and I will show you.!! It is an absolute fact that "Time spent flying is not deducted from your lifespan" -Especially in the tranquility of the night.
Hmm water? knocked out to drown and even if you survive that depending on your climate hypothermia will kill you. I’ve been told to take it into a forest of evergreens before considering water, but to be honest I’m not sure what I’d choose. What would you choose?
That's what I've heard... water landings with gear dangling just never go well... and lots of crashes on water sort of demonstrate that. I really don't know what I would do exactly... personally that one big "foot ball" field or what looked like one would probably be my first target. I would consider if I could find it a big road with minimal traffic if possible. Typically, night flying I'm not flying super low unless over an airport or some place to fly, above 1,500 to provide some options. Also I have the benefit in where I live that it's not densely populated as Oakland CA. An instructor once gave us a passed down story from someone else about emergency landing at night when there is no obvious place to land, pitch black nothingness: 1) Pick a place that you think would be good. 2) At about 500 feet turn landing lights off. 3) At about 200 feet turning landing lights back on. 4) Don't like what you see, turn your landing lights back off.
The evening I was scheduled for my first night flight I was super nervous, scared even. About ten minutes into it, over the city lights in the smooth air with all the drivers stuck in the rat race a couple thousand feet below, I fell in love. Now its my favorite time to fly!
Check dew point and temp. VFR night flying, you’ll see the cloud when you’ll be in it Don’t try to look down for a hole. Start scanning the 6 packs and do a rate 1 180.
Just came across your channel and it's great. You asked about where others would head for at night in the event of an engine failure. I obtained my PPL in Melbourne Australia 1979 and I have an enormous amount of hours at night. My personal opinion is unless you are totally familiar with the dark patches on the ground as I would be in Melbourne I would not head for those at all. The chances of a building/house with no lights on or row of gum trees is too great. Hitting one of those at 85Kts in a G36 or a 182 would most likely be certain death. Yes but you must protect the innocent on the ground as you say. A highway/freeway as we call them here would be my 1st pref, followed by large ports/docks/rivers/beach next. I guess if you are nowhere near a city or lit up area then it may be the only choice. As we always say, turn the landing/taxi lights on at 300', if you don't like what you see, turn them off again !, Great show you have my subscription. Cheers.
The most scariest time I would consider would be flying at night single engine IFR. If you have an engine failure even in VFR, sometimes it is very hard to see anything on the ground as far as powerlines, trees or other obstructions that are not lit. Otherwise night flying is beautiful.
I was thinking in a dense city like that the water could very well be your best option, especially if there is a protected bay or similar where the water is smooth as glass. Even if there is a park or baseball field, there could be tall obstacles that could make a safe approach difficult.
My first option would be any airport. I could see within sight including any grass field that is a restricted site. I would also turn on every light to include taxi and landing light. This might be a good idea to install deer lights or an LED bar on top of the wing, lol.
I don't really like night flying or IMC for the same reason - ability to see landing spaces. In a city at night I have to be honest and say I think I'd go for a big road.
last night at about 9pm I got to my airport in Mansfield Louisiana and none of the lights worked. Not even the beacon. I was about to divert 35 miles to shreveport but pilots there helped get electricity back on. I had to circle for an hour in pitch black night
Would be going for the water for sure….. I wouldn’t risk a road with traffic in it, or a park that might have some sort of constructions, statues, kids playgrounds etc in it
I haven't done any night recurrency since I moved out of the Bay Area, so I'm 21 years overdue. I have a digitized video from my old PAO days on my channel of this event: Amy and I went to Livermore for my birthday dinner at the old Red Baron restaurant (no drinks!). Flew back to PAO as wisps of clouds were appearing over the spine of the Peninsula. Didn't like my first approach; went around and landed. By the time I made it to the PAFC tiedown, there was a solid low overcast covering the field. That was a lesson strongly learned!
Water landings with gear down hardly ever go well (nose wheel diggs in, you end up upside down, drowning inverted). You have a cessna, there's an STC for the BRS on 172 and 182. Flying a single engine at night over the city is exactly when that BRS in your baggage compartment will give you a great peace of mind, Jason. And on some models of 182 installing the BRS acually increases usefull load per the STC. Spend the money. Enjoy night flying.
In an area like that I would say water too, safer for you and the ground at the end of the day if you run into a very rare full engine loss it’s just a plane.
I think for me (new pilot) id rather chance the water and minimize the risk to the innocent on the ground. The congestion of a city seems impossible to keep from hurting others not involved in the flight.
If the water doesn't have high waves, I 100% would pick the water. Almost gaurunteed survival. Water temps are more concerning than the water ditching itself. Sure, the plane will be toast, but who cares? I have had people argue with me over this and they claim they would choose the highway, but there are just too many ways to hit things on the highway.
In the Bay Area agreed, water but with a few thou of altitude, you can glide to a lot of places. Chrissy field used to be an airfield ;-). I also know the beach is likely to be deserted at night. Also at Reid-Hillview, Palo Alto and Hayward, the three places I fly most, I have areas I've walked that I plan to go to if I suffer engine failure at takeoff. Walking around and seeing the ground really helps with awareness for planning landings. A trick I pulled over to GA from hang gliding.
Central Reservoir was almost under you. Coliseum parking lot perhaps. RW15 at KOAK might be a stretch but I'd head that way. If I couldn't make rw15, then San Leandro bay.
Flashlights. One is none, two is one and three is better. Green in the cockpit is better than red, and it won’t destroy night vision. Edit: The first rime I departed MRY and coasted out over water at night I was really glad I had an instrument rating.
Hey Jason, great topic. I enjoy night flying but other pilots have me worried. I don't think I could ditch into darkness. I would go for a large road or something. Could you explore other options in a vid? Also I know you used to fly out of PWK, I fly out C77, all farms around. Don't know it its trees or corn. If you are ever in the area and wanna fly lemme know, got a beautiful 150J.
excellent video as always... as far as where to land in event of engine failure over a densely populated area at night... oh man hopefully you planned ahead of time and are at least vaguely familiar with the escape routes available. or like you said aim for the dark areas as a last resort... terrible choice to have to find yourself in though ahh?
Night flying is unique. All other aircraft are easily seen in the air (thanks to nav lights), unlike during the day. It is peaceful and a little eerie enroute. Once over the city you have to be careful not to stare at the lighting too much. Landing is a little trickier Autokinesis where stationary lights can appear to move. False horizon created by varying light heights. For remote airports, the black hole effect trips up judging distance and height.
Here in Canada you must earn a night rating to be allowed to fly at night. It’s a min of 10 hours with an instructor and no test, but it’s still extra training. I’m also instrument rated, and I truly consider night flying to be instrument flying. I wonder though whether there is a different in the rate of night VFR accidents in Canada vs the US.
Unfortunately in our country(Iran) student pilots are not allowed to have actual night flight. Waiting for when I become a pilot in an airline so I can truly enjoy it
Terrain and place make for huge differences in operations. In Australia, much of a pilots night flying is across ink blank darkness. There will be lights in the distance of a small town or cattle station but basically, on a moonless night, your only option is to turn the landing light on and you'll know what your landing on when it picks up the ground.
Nice to see some videos on night flying! I just got my Night Rating here in Vancouver BC, and really enjoying it. The extra instrument training and hood time was really valuable. Watch out for the mountains, there's no lights on them!
Flying at night is awesome!! What’s your opinion on doing solo maneuvers at night? Me personally, I do not like to practice stalls at night because sometimes it is hard to make out the horizon.
