Learning about Marx with Jordan Peterson (feat. Anarchopac and Red Plateaus)

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Cuck Philosophy:
RU-vid: / @jonasceikacck
Patreon: / cuck
Twitter: / philosophycuck
Anarchopac:
RU-vid: / anarchopac
Patreon: / anarchopac
Twitter: / anarchopac
Red Plateaus:
RU-vid: / redplateaus
Patreon: / redplateaus
Twitter: / rplateaus
Debate: • Marxism: Zizek/Peterso...
Music used is “Music for Airports” by Brian Eno
Movies used:
Le jeune Karl Marx (2017) Directed by Raoul Peck
La Commune (Paris, 1871) (200) Directed by Peter Watkins
Anarchopac's script and references: anarchopac.wordpress.com/2019...
Works referenced:
‘Manifesto of the Communist Party’ - Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels - www.marxists.org/archive/marx...
‘Economic & Philosophic Manuscripts of 1844’ - Karl Marx - www.marxists.org/archive/marx...
‘Grundrisse’ - Karl Marx - www.marxists.org/archive/marx...
‘Capital: A Critique of Political Economy’ - Karl Marx
Volume I: www.marxists.org/archive/marx...
Volume II: www.marxists.org/archive/marx...
Volume III: www.marxists.org/archive/marx...
’The German Ideology’ - Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels - www.marxists.org/archive/marx...
‘Marx’s Ecology: Materialism and Nature’ - John Bellamy Foster - static1.squarespace.com/stati...
‘Marx and the Earth: An Anti-Critique’ - John Bellamy Foster and Paul Burkett - www.amazon.com/Marx-Earth-Ant...
‘Karl Marx’s Ecosocialism: Capital, Nature, and the Unfinished Critique of Political Economy’ - Kohei Saito - www.amazon.com/Karl-Marxs-Eco...
‘Capitalism in the Web of Life: Ecology and the Accumulation of Capital' - Jason W. Moore - www.amazon.com/Capitalism-Web...
’The Young Karl Marx’ - David Leopold - www.amazon.com/Young-Karl-Mar...
‘A Contribution to the Critique of Political Economy’ - Karl Marx - www.marxists.org/archive/marx...
’The Poverty of Philosophy’ - Karl Marx - www.marxists.org/archive/marx...
’The Eighteenth Brumiere of Louis Bonaparte’ - Karl Marx - www.marxists.org/archive/marx...
‘Critique of the Gotha Programme’ - Karl Marx - www.marxists.org/archive/marx...
‘Engels to August Bebel In Zwickau’ - www.marxists.org/archive/marx...
’The Civil War in France’ - Karl Marx - www.marxists.org/archive/marx...
Recommended Reading/Videos
Marx and Engels, The Communist Manifesto
Marx, Wage Labour and Capital (short)
Marx, Thesis on Feuerbach (very short)
Marx, Critique of the Gotha Programme
Marx, The Civil War in France
Fromm, Erich - Marx’s Concept of Man (short)
Heinrich, Michael - An Introduction to the Three Volumes of Karl Marx’s Capital
Lebowitz, Michael - The Socialist Alternative: Real Human Development
Ollman, Bertell - Alienation: Marx’s Conception of Man in Capitalist Society
Wood, Ellen Meiksins - Democracy Against Capitalism: Renewing Historical Materialism
David Harvey’s lectures on capital volume 1 - • Reading Marx's Capital...
Raymond Geuss’ lectures on Marxism - • Marxism lectures by Pr...
Red Plateaus’ series Marx on human development, freedom, alienation and socialism - • Marx on Human Developm...
Anarchopac on Marxism - • Marxism

Опубликовано:

26 июн 2024

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Комментарии : 3 тыс.

@djuradjuric7161 4 года назад

Ironically enough, one of Peterson's 12 rules for life "listen to others because they might know something you don't", which I took very seriously, turned me into a Marxist lmao.

@djuradjuric7161 4 года назад

@@nokeksgiven Yep. It's a shame that Peterson can't take his own advice when the voices come from the left, though.

@djuradjuric7161 4 года назад

@@nokeksgiven It definitely has something to do with age, my father is the same way. Though I wonder if with great effort it could be overcome.

@Matt-ww9wv 4 года назад

Given this, how is JP a carnist again? He likes to believe he's a special snowflake where only eating meat is healthy for him. How does he get vitamins? Organ meats? God forbid the man eat some kale.

@kaufmanat1 4 года назад

Wait so is it the contention hear that if Peterson was actually open-minded he be a leftist? That sounds quite close minded

@djuradjuric7161 4 года назад

@@kaufmanat1 Not really, it's the fact that he is unwilling to engage with the arguments coming from the left in good faith. It's one thing to disagree with historical materialism, class struggle and labor theory of value and completely different thing to dismiss and misinterpret them as badly as Peterson does.

@weakboson7813 4 года назад

"oh shit I forgot about human nature nvm lol" - Karl Marx, 1882

@luckyyuri 4 года назад

*Karl Marx interpreted by Peterson

@luckyyuri 4 года назад

@@TubeWusel Well, i wanted to make sure that there isn't anyone taking it as a criticism to Marx

@J.A000 4 года назад

@@luckyyuri Stfu

@michaelwu7678 4 года назад

No you stfu

@kevin6293 4 года назад

anywherein12seconds, I non-sarcastically thank you for explaining OP’s joke.

@aurochz9733 4 года назад

When Karl Marx used his dialectical powers to abolish nature, I knew at that moment that science had gone too far.

@kwekvonscaf 4 года назад

Please elaborate? Because I don't get what you are pointing at all.

@Nihil01 4 года назад

@@kwekvonscaf me neither...

@kwekvonscaf 4 года назад

dialectical powers? abolishing nature? science? ... Either this is some kind of inside joke, or this person is super duper confused, or I have no idea what all these terms mean annymore

@kwekvonscaf 4 года назад

@indirect existence Okay, haven't been through the entire thing yet. thx for the clarification.

@Badbentham 4 года назад

After all, Marx`dialectic materialism, with its whole "pseudo" (?) -focus on nature, is well-known to be just the pure, undifferentiable, reiteration of bourgeois ideology. ;)

@OfLaSoul 3 года назад

My favourite part of this debate is Peterson admitting that this was the first time that he read the Communist Manifesto since he was 18. So this entire time he's been basing his criticism of "cultural marxism"/"postmodern neo marxists" just from one single book he read 4 decades ago? Actual bruh moment.

@Oners82 3 года назад

No, most of his thoughts on that is nonsense he got from Stephen Hicks, not Marx.

@4Torches 2 года назад

What sucks most is that lots of confused centrists are going to use that as the standard of what they need to know about Marx...

@shinjinobrave 2 года назад

Not even a book, a pamphlet. It's damned embarrassing.

@phangkuanhoong7967 2 года назад

he doesn't need to read any of it, because that's not the debate strategy he's using here, which is basically: make strawmen out of the literature, and beat the strawmen over and over. it's not about actually knowing the subject he's talking about. it's just about putting up enough airs to look and sound smart.

@shinjinobrave 2 года назад

@@TalDreamcast how on earth could he know that without reading it?

@kitthornton2336 4 года назад

Peterson is the best example I know of what my Grandfather called, "The brilliance of the half-bright." Those who have a partial understanding of a topic can be very persuasive by twisting the facts to fit the prejudices of the audience. This doesn't require any deep knowledge of the topic, just a willingness to oversimplify in a self-serving way, and then defend the position they already know their audience holds.

@gabitheancient7664 2 года назад

wise man, your grandfather

@poperaisin 2 года назад

That’s a great quote from your grandfather

@skyteus Год назад

On point.

@thenowchurch6419 Год назад

You just described Peterson's entire public career.

@factcheck1776 Год назад

Yeah, if Peterson is known for anything, it's being eager to please the crowd. Lol.

@nickschmitt8594 4 года назад

It's surreal learning about Marx in the audio while watching Peterson gesture in the video.

@lausenteternidad 4 года назад

Dr. Nosretep B Nadroj, will turn you into a post-modern neo marxist with actual good arguments

@hiage66666 4 года назад

lausenteternidad awww shiet SIGN ME THE FUCK UP SAILOR

@TheDawsonGamer 4 года назад

It’s surreal listening to a socialist claim that learning about Marxism from the book Marx wrote about Marxism is a bad way of learning about it

@kseriousr 4 года назад

@@TheDawsonGamer Who said that?

@SandhillCrane42 4 года назад

It's hilarious because the entire time Jordan Peterson develops his fundamentally flawed argument with intensely ardent enthusiasm as the correct view is calmly explained-sort of like a madman on the street.

@brennan_ 4 года назад

I am still in awe that, prior to the Zizek debate, Peterson had cultivated a pretty integral part of his brand as opposition to the "postmodern neomarxists" with his only understanding of Marxism being a reading of the Manifesto once when he was 18 and an undergraduate understanding of the history of the Soviet Union. That takes some real audacity. Like imagine if Zizek, Chomsky or some other prominent leftist based all of their critiques of capitalism on reading The Wealth of Nations once. They'd be laughed out of any debate they took place in. It just shows that the conservative anti-academic streak means they wind up putting some pretty inept thinkers atop their intellectual pedestal, exemplified by Peterson.

@Disentropic1 4 года назад

I mean, I agree with you, but you can't effectively make this point to the public for the same reason that Peterson has achieved his public intellectual status in spite of it. To argue against prevailing culture's ideological consensus, you have to be rigorous; to confirm it Peterson's credentials are far in excess of sufficient. If you can get together a few dozen billion to throw at some new think tanks, and don't mind subverting your own intellectual values by using them, _then_ we can talk about re-establishing some semblance of a _real_ hierarchy of competence.

@brennan_ 4 года назад

A sad reality. If Peterson can just make shit up, so long as it is in service of the status quo, and be lauded as a once in a generation intellect, that shows how difficult it will be for us to change that.

@99baji99 4 года назад

"That's the secret. You gotta play this game with fear and arrogance."

@dwc1964 4 года назад

As someone once misquoted Marx as saying (it was someone else far more recently, but it sure /sounds/ like Marx, I expected to find it in The Eighteenth Brumaire): "When small men cast long shadows, it's a sure sign the sun is setting."

@dwc1964 4 года назад

@@99baji99 I haven't seen Bull Durham quoted in ages!

@jaxie4878 4 года назад

For all the people who say, "you're taking Peterson out of context", the real scenario should be us telling Peterson, "you're taking Marx out of context"

@andrewfurusawa4609 4 года назад

To be fair, Marx took himself out of context by publishing the Communist Manifesto.

@marcoslacerda2527 4 года назад

It seems that pretty much everyone so far has taken Marx, that parasite who never worked a day in his life and lived off the surplus value of his wife, out of context...

@MikaelLima2210 4 года назад

@@marcoslacerda2527 Eu fico impressionado que é só brasileiro que repete esses mantras retardados, até em inglês. Normalmente é jovem playboy que ganhou tudo de mão beijada so papai e da mamãe, e alguns nem sequer tiveram o primeiro trabalho ainda, mas enchem a boca pra chamar os outros de "vagabundos". Simplesmente patético.

@domoroboto8752 4 года назад

Marcos Lacerda He was a journalist and performed the mental labor of study (producing theoretical works) for the remainder of his life.

@MikaelLima2210 4 года назад

@@domoroboto8752 don't waste your time explaing this brainless fuckwits - who probably are in school/college age and don't have a job themselves - what work in the real world is. They don't know because they are incapable of thinking beyond what their think tank youtubers and websites spew at 'em.

@RaZ3rR 4 года назад

Peterson looks at laptop googles "whos Engels" *looks confused*

@napoleonbonaparteempereurd4676 4 года назад

"Marx met Engels in 1844 in Paris. They became intellectual partners and worked together to write the Communist Manifesto in 1848" Peterson: The Manifesto must be the most important and comprehensive work of Marx!

@rafaellucadetena9355 4 года назад

@@napoleonbonaparteempereurd4676 He knows what's he's doing. The most people who can keep away from Das Capital, the better for him and his business partners.

@alonsovalencia3362 4 года назад

Yes he was s burgoise who never gave up his means of production in favor of the proletariat

@rafaellucadetena9355 4 года назад

@@alonsovalencia3362 Engels? He didn't need to. His father never let him own any factory bc of his way of thinking. He didn't want that factories anyway.

@alonsovalencia3362 4 года назад

@@rafaellucadetena9355 when he died, he should've give them to the proletariat, so i call bs on him and marx too and his inheritance also his aristocrat wife. Burgeiose talking about communism, lefties are rich people or they live off their parents

@brandonmiles8174 4 года назад

I love how people like Peterson talk about the limitless potential of the individual and that if you want something, you take it and if you want it bad enough you'll do what is required to achieve your goal, and then in the next sentence "that's just impossible, we can't subvert the social relations developed by the political economy of Capitalism and just develop a more efficient and just society"

@thenowchurch6419 Год назад

Also after glorifying the West and the Enlightenment and their emancipation of the individual, Peterson does not have the slightest sympathy for the claims and rights of Trans or other marginalized individuals.

@erotomania91 Год назад

@@thenowchurch6419 So fucking true...

@liamhickey359 Год назад

The limitless potential of the individual and the predetermined lobster hierarchy. Having his cake and eating it.

@JacobGrim Год назад

You try to convince the entire western population to switch political and economic systems then

@Mattieval 4 года назад

Peterson sounded like me, at school, giving a presentation on a book I only read the back of.

@keyan1219 3 года назад

And trying to say as much stuff as you could to make it seem like you read it

@ptw9993 3 года назад

But that's okay, because your classmates (and teacher) are not any more familiar with the topic than you are.

@SimonAshworthWood 3 года назад

LOL :D

@e.1220 3 года назад

It's the application of Marxism where the true poison lies, texts are just texts Hopefull that cleared it up for you, since it's quite simple if you know what you're looking at. You haven't listened to Peterson

@michaelwu7678 3 года назад

@@e.1220Your understanding of the application of Marxism is literally the equivalent of a middle school essay

@tioscha0 4 года назад

Sad thing is everybody who already listens to Peterson is still gonna take all these things at face value and believe that Peterson effectively criticized Marxism

@benmac1089 4 года назад

I listen to Peterson and I disagree that he effectively criticized Marxism.

@tioscha0 4 года назад

@@benmac1089 alright well obviously everybody is a hyperbole, but I think you can agree that Peterson has a large and impressionable following that will mindlessly repeat all his talking points without understanding the incongruities with Marx's actual writing, and that most of the world's population disapproves of Marxism without really understanding it.

@DokDicer 4 года назад

Which is why I loved that Zizek didn't really respond to his "analysis". Would have been wasted breath.

@jonsnor4313 4 года назад

@@benmac1089 I think its ore that he has fans wo believe i despite him being so proven wrong, and wo are not rabbit fanboys.

@benmac1089 4 года назад

@@tioscha0 Yes and that's why it's better to read the source material more than someone's response to it. Ayn Rand's analysis of Kant or Stephen Hick's book about postmodernism that Peterson recommends are full of errors.

@scienceversuspropaganda7253 4 года назад

It's hard to imagine a statement about Marxism more misinformed than the statement that Marxism is concerned with class struggle without regard for the role of nature. The main theme running through Marx's work is that the social and political struggles of history cannot be understood independently of the material world, that class struggles (and classes themselves) are shaped around the way in which we organize the harnessing of natures wealth and add to it. Good video.

@AliceDiableaux 4 года назад

That's what I was thinking. He's a materialist for fucks sake. Right at the beginning Peterson makes it painfully obvious he really has not read anything, not even a fucking summary or a Wikipedia article, otherwise he would've known this.

@HieronymousLex 4 года назад

AliceDiableaux you think you know more?

@HieronymousLex 4 года назад

Marxists are the dumbest, most sheltered people in the west. Did you know that 100 million people died last century from communism? No, because YOU haven’t done basic research. It is the epitome of arrogance to accuse someone 10000x more prepared than you of not being well researched. You’re literally a fucking Marxist which speaks to the amount of studying you’ve done, you’re at an edgy high schooler who’s taken one philosophy or political science class’ level. Pathetic

@Bojoschannel 4 года назад

@@HieronymousLex you're very smart, you amaze me, you're a free thinker yes. Now go away before my brain melts from such strong arguments and vast intellect

@Trollodocus 4 года назад

"Communism killed 100 million people" is not backed by any evidence and comes from a book whose own authors admitted they were exaggerating figures as much as they could

@MK0118 3 года назад

its so funny how Peterson basically makes the Marxist argument when he talks about nature: we have to survive in nature and from this emerge social organizations. That's literally what Marx says. I feel like a lot of conservatives would switch sides if they were better educated. I think that's why more leftists should be more welcoming to conservatives and take the time to talk about theory without being aggressive or calling people stupid. Zizek has used exactly the right strategy.

@justinlevy274 2 года назад

Some people on the right, especially the anti corporate very small business types, say the most vicious stuff about capitalism and they don't even realize it. If you break things down in relatable terms and don't mention Marx they will give you heavy head bobs while listening.

@BewegtBildYT 2 года назад

@@justinlevy274 Yes! I have made the same experience! Thats why one has to be very careful with dogma and vocabulary.

@Eltrio2 6 месяцев назад

The problem is that a lot of leftists DO try to explain left-wing ideologies to conservatives. The problem is that they've been so thoroughly convinced that anything to the left of Ronald Reagan and Ayn Rand is evil by definition. This makes explaining ANYTHING to them analogous to talking to a brick wall and expecting a response. After a while, you just give up and move onto something more productive. Most right-wingers have been so thoroughly indoctrinated that they react violently to any dissenting voice and contrary opinion.

@EarlofSedgewick 4 месяца назад

I became interested in Zizek because he came up in the algorithm when i began listening to Peterson. Watching that debate totally won me over to bring curious about philosophy. It wasn't the first step though. That came with listening to Peyerson talk with Dawkins and then Penrose. Neither of them were given a chance to get a word in sideways, but both of them ended up interjecting to directly challenge his wild claims. THAT got me interested in listening to people with other viewpoints, because Peterson was just clearly making shit up, getting told by experts he invited "hey, you're making shit up", and then NEVER conceding his point to that criticism.

@iLynn0o 3 года назад

"Reject marxism, embrace lobster" - Jordan Peterson

@mjolninja9358 3 года назад

I disagree, Burgers are still better than Pizzas

@spritualelitist665 2 года назад

God is a lobster, “a double pincer, a double bind'' ;)

@engelstraene3 3 года назад

I'm genuinely confused about what must go on in Peterson's mind. Does he genuinely think he's so incredibly smart that he only needs to read one short text in order to make sweeping statements about an entire theory? Especially when he's debating a renowned marxist philosopher? I'd almost envy him for this much self confidence, if it wasn't so entirely misplaced...

@lockyourdoors5886 4 года назад

Straight up knew something was wrong when he said it's like nature doesn't even exist to Marx.

@TheJadedJames 4 года назад

Wong Ian And he’s getting that from “The history of SOCIETY is the history of class struggle.” In a society there will be distribution of power and resources on some level which will inform everyone’s life.

@AlbertSirup 4 года назад

yeah i mean Engel's literally wrote a text called "dialectics of nature"... it's just a case of Peterson talking to a crowd of people who have already made up their mind about marxist theory.

@davidegaruti2582 4 года назад

@@AlbertSirup either that or they think that Peterson is some truth god and they are just drinking the little dropplets of truth juice sprouting from him . attention the commenter does not take any responsability about any image originated from the the comment , if you have come back to read the two "the" you have agreed to terms and conditions , and you take all responsability from any ansty image originated in your hown brain

@richardgamrat1944 4 года назад

Scout!

@-jg9pi 4 года назад

He was talking about human nature and nature defined as "that which selects" - nature is the selecting force in Darwinian theory. All Marx was talking about was material goods, which actually enforces Peterson's first point. Just because the word nature was mentioned a few times doesn't mean they were talking about the same thing at all. Peterson was talking about the nature of the human psyche, the nature of the world. Marx was talking about being forced to extract material goods from nature (basically commodities). Don't conflate these things just because it's poorly presented in this video.

@Vinc90 4 года назад

Can we all just appreciate how JP get's to be called an intellectual with minimal effort? "Imma debate someone on Marx, guess I'll read his shortest book"

@theoneandonlymichaelmccormick 4 года назад

Vinc90 “Read”? I think you’re being a bit generous. He couldn’t even do that.

@napoleonbonaparteempereurd4676 4 года назад

@@theoneandonlymichaelmccormick "Skim the first few pages"

@theoneandonlymichaelmccormick 4 года назад

Napoleon Bonaparte, Empereur des Français The first few pages of a thirty page books. Peterson’s supposed to be a professor, so he should be pretty used to 30 page pamphlets, right? He does absolutely suck.

@napoleonbonaparteempereurd4676 4 года назад

@@theoneandonlymichaelmccormick He is a tenure Professor of Psychology . Not of History. I guess having tenure and a cult following leads to lazyness. You have nothing to lose anymore. Tenure and all.

@theoneandonlymichaelmccormick 4 года назад

Napoleon Bonaparte, Empereur des Français The fucker’s WRITTEN books longer then The Communist Manifesto. And if that lobster-fucking cunt expects anybody to read through motherfucking Maps of Meaning, then the least he can do is learn how to read a thirty page pamphlet.

@lukehardin9 4 года назад

I don’t know how this didn’t make a bigger impact on me when originally watching the debate, but that initial comment about Marx ignoring mans relation to nature is just...mind boggling, as was rightly put in the video. Regardless of anyone’s opinion of Marx, this is blatant misinformation and a form of pernicious idiocy that should be ruthlessly ripped apart and criticized.

@flyingteeshirts 4 года назад

I knew Peterson's interpretation of Marxism was abysmal but I thought he had at least read the Manifesto

@sciencefictionisreal1608 4 года назад

i'm pretty sure he didn't read the manifesto lmaooooo

@Madhatter1781 3 года назад

If he'd read it, he'd have had his mind changed.

@SomeRandomDude000000 3 года назад

Shoulda read wage labor and capital

@Life4Gamez 4 года назад

You're back! I hope you have been well, I love your videos!

@edgarroberts8740 4 года назад

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-h1teBb1Wh8U.html

@daviddlugosielski3020 3 года назад

How? It's a horrible production and his voice is monotone and flat. The British Ben Stein.

@michaelwu7678 3 года назад

@@daviddlugosielski3020 what a shallow way to evaluate a video. Do you not care about the content at all?

@noneofyourbusiness4616 4 года назад

Title of video is equivalent to "learning about astronomy with the 16th Century Catholic church."

@redstatesaint 4 года назад

*12th century

@AP-yx1mm 4 года назад

Srijan Butola nope in the 12th they weren’t as radical

@arjundev3125 4 года назад

Technically, the church did acknowledge when Galileo was right in a few aspects, but adopted a different model he couldn't disprove. old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/2y44q6/how_sound_was_galileos_case_for_heliocentricism/ and he was condemned to house arrest for portraying his findings as facts when most leading astronomers disagreed old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/42bbfx/what_precisely_was_galileo_put_on_trial_by_the/

@DanyIsDeadChannel313 4 года назад

Nonetheless Copernicus revolution was the big deL

@glof2553 4 года назад

>implying Galileo was good at astronomy

@sammacintyre1351 4 года назад

Does anyone else find Peterson's habit/technique of claiming a flaw with something and then saying "and that's a big problem" and then never explaining why said claimed flaw is a problem annoying? It feels incredibly lazy or disingenuous to me.

@ChicagoMonsterPunk 4 года назад

Sam MacIntyre I see what you mean and that’s a big problem. (This comment was predictable as fuck... And that’s a big problem)

@Disentropic1 4 года назад

It doesn't "feel" lazy, he flat out admitted that he only read the communist manifesto. It's an explicit fact that his analysis is irresponsibly shallow.

@revspikejonez 4 года назад

Definitely intellectually lazy and completely disingenuous.

@danatronics9039 4 года назад

@@Disentropic1 He didn't even read it, either

@iosefka7774 4 года назад

@mayrana2 A lot of conservatives are liberals.

@Alex-cw3rz 4 года назад

It shows how little Peterson a man who has been complaining about Marxism for 30 years that Marx's has rebuttals for things Peterson said in this debate written 100 years ago.

@edgarroberts8740 4 года назад

It says even more that they're not even rebuttals to real critiques, as such. It's just: "Marx doesn't ever mention nature," "Actually, here's some of the many times he mentions nature," and so on. All Peterson did in his statement is express bafflement and incomprehension at a system of political thought, never considering that the reason he didn't understand it is because he hadn't bothered to read anything about it. Why anyone takes him seriously is a mystery.

@Alex-cw3rz 4 года назад

@@edgarroberts8740 so true

@GherkinPickleGroyper 4 года назад

@@Alex-cw3rz hey what do u guys think of Critique of Dialectical Reason by Jean Paul Sartre?

@atwarwithdust 4 года назад

Peterson: “We’re also actually always at odds with nature and this never seems to show up in Marx. It’s as if nature doesn’t exist. A primary conflict that human beings engage in is this struggle for life in a cruel and harsh natural world and it’s as if that doesn’t exist in the Marxist domain.” Marx: “Just as the savage must wrestle with Nature to satisfy their wants, to maintain and reproduce life, so must the civilized, and they must do so in all social formations, under all possible modes of production. With their development this realm of physical necessity expands as a result of their wants, but at the same time, the forces of production which satisfy these wants also increase. Freedom in this field can only consist in socialization - the associated producers rationally regulating their interchange with Nature, bringing it under their common control, instead of being ruled by it as by blind forces, and achieving this with the least expenditure of energy and under conditions most favourable to, and worthy of, their human nature. But it nonetheless still remains a realm of necessity. Beyond it begins that development of human energy which is an end in itself, the true realm of freedom, which, however, can blossom forth only with this realm of necessity as its basis.” - referred to by William Clare Roberts as “probably the most famous passage from Volume 3 of Capital” here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-lIeLyPgOFe8.html.

@martinsvoboda8267 4 года назад

Poor Jordan. He is trying so hard! He almost even read a book-ish thing because of this! Leave him be. :-(

@phantommagnolia 4 года назад

says the no-life guy about a psychology professor, intellectual and psychologist. how ironic

@CDexie 4 года назад

@@phantommagnolia Doctor J. B. Peterson is part of the intelligentsia? Oh my how we've fallen... That's not what they were discussing at the Parisian salon.

@phantommagnolia 4 года назад

@@CDexie he is wether you like it or not 🤗

@revspikejonez 4 года назад

@@phantommagnolia so an intellectual cannot properly read A PAMPHLET? Says a lot about you dimwits hanging on his every Kermity word.

@CDexie 4 года назад

@@phantommagnolia That makes it even worse. Not because of whether I like it or not, but because Jordan Peterson has completely failed to express any academic behavior or notion that would mark him as a capable Thinker, as in intellectual. In fact, he misconstrued and straw-manned Marx to an unimaginable degree, as presented in this video. If he is part of the Intelligentsia, a position granted to him by right-wingers online praising him for catastrophizing about a law regarding trans people in Canada, this is indeed bad, but manageable. Peterson is a trend and one that quickly is getting boring. Keep in mind though, Peterson is a psychologist. He should stick to that and get far, FAR away from political theory. He has failed to express any willingness to learn or discover the truth, goals of Academia and quite often, of Intellectuals in this part of discourse. And, unlike him, Marx knew what he was talking about. He was a political theorist, a sociologist, a historian, an academic, a revolutionary both in Praxis and in his respective fields. Marx defined the lenses through which we view political economy, society and capitalism. What has the Lobster King brought to oppose him? False narratives?

@CorpseTongji 4 года назад

wow i wish i could receive the sheer amount of societal coddling required to allow me to stand in front of an audience and talk out my ass about something i havent even made an attempt to grasp and have people then take me 100% seriously as an academic

@kittenwizard4703 4 года назад

@The Agency That's an appeal to authority

@kittenwizard4703 4 года назад

@The Agency I'm not saying that teenager "know it all", however you seem to dismiss us entirely based on that notion, that's why I brought it up, and asking me to go "choke on a pencil" isn't really helpful. I would be interested in how you actually think if you don't mind

@hannes9488 4 года назад

The Agency ok boomer

@prs_81 3 года назад

@The Agency you've broken the world record of "how many fallacies can I commit in one comment"!!!

@JokingAbraham 3 года назад

@The Agency bruh you don't have to respond to everything you know

@auDipquid 4 года назад

Eno's Music for Airports, nice choice.

@Zhicano 4 года назад

DC love that shit. Play it when I go for walks.

@hisownfool1 4 года назад

I've listened to all of the "Ambient" series dozens, if not hundreds of times. Brian Eno is a genius.

@ThatOneGuy7550 4 года назад

Brian Eno is awesome

@TheDIZZYCLAN 4 года назад

The second I heard the melodies, I thought, "this is gonna be a good video"

@samuelknight8879 3 года назад

you guys got great taste. brian would agree with the sentiment of this vid, so very appropriate :-)

@ErkaaJ 4 года назад

Learning about Humanism with Joseph Goebbels

@tehprofessornigrud836 4 года назад

@Maximilien Charles Didn't expect that response

@tehprofessornigrud836 4 года назад

@Maximilien Charles en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Goebbels

@tehprofessornigrud836 4 года назад

@Maximilien Charles "Goebbels had frequent discussions with Hitler about the fate of the Jews, a subject they discussed almost every time they met.[262] He was aware throughout that the Jews were being exterminated, and completely supported this decision. He was one of the few top Nazi officials to do so publicly."

@johnh-n2524 4 года назад

Literally lol'ed

@johnh-n2524 4 года назад

@Maximilien Charles they followed those programs for very different reasons, and I'm sure you know what they are. The national socialist movement has always been explicitly pro-capitalist, bougeious, anti-democratic, and specifically not Marxist. That's is not any kind of socialism "real" or otherwise. if you don't understand the difference between wanting the master race to own the means of production collectively and wanting an authoritarian ethnostate, then you simply aren't giving it enough consideration. The two are essentially incompatible.

@jockel9502 4 года назад

Peterson sounds like he's gonna break down crying every moment.

@n33wom 4 года назад

He really did at the beginning didn't he? Haha

@ingridsantos7815 4 года назад

He sounds a paranoid manic

@ingridsantos7815 4 года назад

@Aaron A420 , what I know it's the opposite: American doctors medicated him for profits. The family realized that. He chose treating himself in Russia. His daughter announces it. Anyway, it's a tragedy

@halfpintrr 4 года назад

Ingrid Santos No, he medicated himself for extreme anexiety, and when the dependency became too much, instead of going through a typical withdrawal program (ie, reducing dependency by slowly decreasing the dose of the drug)” he decided to be a manly man and try to quit cold turkey (which with benzodiazepines can be fatal, by causing things like heart attacks). To do this, he went to Russia where he persuaded doctors to put him in a medically induced coma, which quite possibly gave him permanent brain damage. By not asking for help, he gave up some of his intellectual capacity.

@ingridsantos7815 4 года назад

@@halfpintrr ,he is a psychiatrist. Seems the Dünning-Krüger raised above the topics which he didn't study while income raised selling a camuflated reactionary agenda. What most I hated is the lack of transparency towards intentions. I really hated Hoppe, but the transparency about who he is dimished such feeling

@chakacaca1372 2 года назад

"Know your enemy." -- Sun Tzu "Don't know your enemy." -- Jordan Peterson

@redstatesaint 4 года назад

If that is what he has understood of Marx, I shudder to think what he has or will do to Foucault or Derrida. Damn!

@darcgibson5099 4 года назад

Oh, you mean his favourite, entirely fabricated from his own profound lack of knowledge & intellectual dishonesty, boogey-man “neo-Marxist post-modernists”? He’s equally, if not even worse on them. He ends up parroting the Nazi “cultural-Bolshevist” conspiracy theory, made worse by the fact I don’t even think he realises that’s what he’s doing.

@R0DisG0D 4 года назад

He has talked about them often and it's clear he's never really read any of their works, maybe he caught an interview with them or read an article in a news paper. According to him, Derrida claims that any interpretation of a given text is as good as any other, wich is quite a baffling thing to say about the dude who is famous for carefully deconstructing texts. And Foucaults insight for him is a triviality (that things like mental ilnesses are "in part" a social construct). He also said Foucault transformed Marxism from "rich vs poor" to "opressor vs opressed", wich I don't know what to even say about. He claims to have read a reasonable amount of Foucault, but if that is what he boils Foucault down to, I somewhat doubt that.

@redstatesaint 4 года назад

@@R0DisG0D the conception of _power_ is *fundamentally* different in Marx and Foucault, leading to very different conclusions about society and the course of political action. Foucault completely transformed social theory. To understand how he did that, one ought to read that which preceded him, and his entire scholarship as well. But Peterson, very clearly, has done neither.

@napoleonbonaparteempereurd4676 4 года назад

@@redstatesaint I would say Marx also completely transformed Social Theory, but in a different way to Foucoult

@mahmud7645 4 года назад

@@napoleonbonaparteempereurd4676 Marx practically was the first social scientist, or the first one to formulate elaborate theories about social structures

@doublenegation7870 4 года назад

This shrieking lobster only pretended to read the manifesto and then stuttered for 45 minutes while throwing his hands around like a magician.

@peterpalmato467 4 года назад

This is a fantastic comment

@doublenegation7870 4 года назад

@@peterpalmato467 I don't see how anybody with a working brain can see it any other way!

@alanwattslightbulb6956 4 года назад

@@peterpalmato467 also a fantastic profile pic

@ElefantPenisJr 4 года назад

You can tell without a doubt that he had no confidence in what he was saying. This is coming from someone who likes him.

@kmasse81 4 года назад

...while wearing an expensive suit...

@nolives 4 года назад

I came for a rebuttal. Not to see a man get ideologically slaughtered lmao.

@Ronin969 4 года назад

bro hook it up with whatever you're trippin on

@rafaelmarchanteangulo4582 4 года назад

I'll fix your sentence for you: "I came for a rebuttal. Not to see a man's ideology get slaughtered lmao."

@rafaelmarchanteangulo4582 4 года назад

@emmabakunin1 mmm... how would you fix that?

@juudaaah1468 4 года назад

stfu and just like the comment

@Potatotenkopf 4 года назад

This entire section is a grammar shitpost, leave before it's too late.

@alancantu2557 Год назад

The fascinating thing about Marx is that he predicted people like Jordan Peterson would deliberately misunderstand him in order to maintain the capitalist order. Makes it all the more satisfying when JP is debunked.

@highlonesomed 4 года назад

That debate was so interesting, it wasn't anything what I was expecting. Doug Lain from Zero Books said it kinda felt like Zizek was trying to perform an intervention on a mass scale, on Peterson and his fans, and I think I agree. Some criticized Zizek for not going aggro on Peterson but that would've been useless imo. Peterson seemed genuinely humbled towards the end.

@hyacinth1320 4 года назад

I agree. When I heard about the debate, I wasn't happy about it. I thought Zizek, a real and prolific philosopher, was lowering himself. But when I watched it. My mind changed. He very subtly exposed Peterson. It was honestly masterful. And you're right. Anything else would have been useless.

@NoTengoIdeaGuey 4 года назад

I need to rewatch this debate. I was a JP Stan when I watched it and my impression of it was (naturally) that JP won. I've since flipped my script and I imagine my view would be different. I think that's one of the main critiques you can make for Jordan Peterson is that he often makes assertions that his fans take as fact when in reality they are often no more than half truths or misinterpretations of works. I mean the whole reason he's famous is because of bill C-16, and the notion that it would make it a crime to call someone by a different preferred pronoun. Something I heard him say in the past and assumed it was true. Only to find out it was a fucking lie. He just made shit up got pissed on TV about it and that's the whole reason why he's famous.

@randomstarwarsfan6404 4 года назад

@@NoTengoIdeaGuey Care to elaborate more? I'm not Canadian and I'm into the work of Jordan Peterson. But, from my understanding and from what I've saw him speaking, it's not that calling someone a different pronoun is/was a crime. The problem was compelled speech, where legislation was obliging citizens to use certain words that implicated and several other problems, which is very true. It was not a notion, he carefully explained that, and seeing it in work and he even explaining what happened to him (with some university letters with legal advice and so on and so forth) this got quite clear. I don't think that he lied in any way, but again, I'm not Canadian so I might not be aware. At the time, I indeed thought that Peterson was a bit nuts, but seeing everything unfold, turns out he isn't.

@gabms6320 3 года назад

@@randomstarwarsfan6404 no, he is pretty nuts

@BigHenFor 3 года назад

@@hyacinth1320 Peterson would have gone prepared for a verbal punch fest. Instead, the reasoned and reasonable rebuttals of his paper-thin understanding of marxism showed him only to be an a man going beyond the limits of his competence, and perhaps too confident of his rectitude to do the real work of learning about ideas outside his political and ideological comfort zone.

@marblecake1234 4 года назад

I heard Eno and I knew i was in for something good

@leighfoulkes7297 4 года назад

Brain Eno, the most underrated artist of the 20 century.

@gabrielcortes6369 3 года назад

Jordan Peterson: Marx doesn't care about nature. Marx: Nature, nature, nature, nature.

@Maranna95 3 года назад

Nature, nature, nature but as a source and cause of labor - i dont see him talking about human nature, psychological nature?

@gabrielcortes6369 3 года назад

@@Maranna95 I don't remember the video very well, nor the context of my comment. But I think Marx does talk about human nature in the 1844 Manuscripts. Also, I don't think human nature is still a relevant concept for critical philosophy today.

@Maranna95 3 года назад

@@gabrielcortes6369 might be so, I did indeed not read any of his works. But i did see the debate talked about in this video, and symphatize with JPs views, but as I want to have an open mind I am watching this video. And why do you believe its not relevant?

@gabrielcortes6369 3 года назад

@@Maranna95 I am not an expert on the subject and it is a complex debate. But, in short, much of contemporary philosophy is constructivist. From that point of view, there can be no human nature, since it would be a socio-historical construction. Of course, conservative thinkers, like Peterson, would be against such assumptions. Others, of a more liberal and modernist tendency, say Jurgen Habermas or Hannah Arendt, preferred to speak of the 'human condition', maybe. Transhumanism, robotics and genetic engineering will make things more complicated. I hope someone who actually knows about this could correct me xd

@natanaellizama6559 2 года назад

@@gabrielcortes6369 JP's point was that Marx does not talk of the struggle of man vs nature and man vs inner nature(his psychological nature) but rather about economic class struggle. Regardless of whether that point was correct, this video does not illustrate that main difference. The mentions of nature were as to how nature is the base resource out of which man applies labour and transforms. No talk of tigers or say the existential dread that makes men violent and bitter.

@MrJohnOHM 4 года назад

I really appreciate how you talk so slowly, because I'm a dumbass and need it

@eyesofthecervino3366 5 месяцев назад

Same, friend. Same.

@mateusdebem1153 3 года назад

This video dismantles all Peterson arguments, and shows us how unprepared he was.

@hermit-up-to-11 4 года назад

"There are several problems with what Peterson says here" - when is that sentence *_not_* true?

@LoganLS0 2 года назад

When he's talking about behavioral psychology.

@papalosopher 4 года назад

Also, I know I'm dumb because while I usually pretty quickly see pretty big flaws here and there occasionally in what JP is saying, I generally find him very intelligent and convincing, and then I watch a video like this, and I realise that I am dumb.

@thomasw4422 4 года назад

The first step to being less dumb is realizing you missed something. Being smart is much harder than being dumb, because you are constantly reminded how dumb you still are about most things. Experts spend their whole life on things for reasons. That's why we need them for stuff like this, and why lobster man can't just read half of one book and really be an expert.

@SJNaka101 4 года назад

Jordan peterson is smart in his domain of expertise. His problem is mostly thinking he's smart outside of his domain of expertise. His shit understanding of law is what made him famous, so he thinks he has a good understanding. People validate his anti sjw stuff, so he thinks he's smart there too. Peterson's outspoken idiocy is very much a product of his audience. One need not look any further than Ben Carson to see that it's very possible to be very smart at a thing and very dumb at everything else.

@papalosopher 4 года назад

@@SJNaka101 that "product of his audience" line is great.

@realbuzzgrant 3 года назад

Scott you are not dumb you are just being baffled by bullshit courtesy of Jonas Čeika - CCK Philosophy. the fact is that Marx's philosophy has been implemented and experimented with too great disaster. That is what pontificators like this channel fail to acknowledge and accept.

@jennypenny8635 2 года назад

@@realbuzzgrant ? The point of this debate was to debate theory, not practice. Speaking of Marxist theory, maybe you should actually read it.

@anclaudys 4 года назад

Whenever there was a class reading on Marx, the word nature popped up excessively. Boy this man is sad. He thinks he can bullshit about Marx because he probably thinks its only fringe kooks who read Marx and who will verify JP. Unfortunately for JP, Marx is a well known author that even his critics are familiar with.

@napoleonbonaparteempereurd4676 4 года назад

Unfortunately millions follow JBP and believe him to be an authority on subjects, Such as Marxism and Post-Modernism, about which he knows little or nothing at all.

@DanyIsDeadChannel313 4 года назад

Zizek was starring like. This man is going to ruin his own career lol

@matthewkopp2391 4 года назад

L Daniel I do think so, somehow the right wing can produce other manufactured intellectuals like Roger Scruton who have absolutely nothing intelligent to say other than wrap pompous bullshit around neoliberalism mixed with milk toast conservativism and thereby proclaimed a great intellectual of the right. At this point the right wing will not even faithfully represent Hayek because it would expose the fact that they merely advocate for a Ponzi scheme.

@kendomyers 4 года назад

Nah Peterson doesnt need to make good arguments or know anything to get right wing patreon dollars or sell books to reactionaries

@ingridsantos7815 4 года назад

@@matthewkopp2391 ,even nazis had Karl Schmitt or Heidegger, the center had Hannah Arendt. Nowadays is propaganda

@McDonaldsCalifornia 4 года назад

Oddly enough that debate lines up pretty well with when he seems to have fallen into an addiction to benzos

@finnradoy1742 4 года назад

@@kendomyers Why are you so filled with hate? First and foremost, Peterson isn't even a politican, he's a psychologist. And his book isn't primarily about politics, but most of it is in fact about his profession, which is psychology. It isn't reactionaries buying his book, and If they are, they will quickly find themselves intellectually overwhelmed and probably bored.

@sycastells1212 4 года назад

Peterson: "All of meaning is derived from the conflict between order and chaos." Also Peterson: "Marx thinks of all history as a binary class struggle, which is obviously way too simple."

@TheDawsonGamer 4 года назад

Nice logical fallacy

@NIHIL_EGO 4 года назад

>Really love Carl Jung >Believe that everything is struggle between order and chaos Lobster-sama is SMT player confirmed.

@marcossidoruk8033 4 года назад

And he also thinks that hegelian dialectics are simple, what an idiot.

@caffeinator1849 3 года назад

@@marcossidoruk8033 That's what you get from only reading Thesis + Antithesis = Synthesis

@LibertarianLeninistRants 4 года назад

I just finished watching the video and then reloaded the page and I see 2k views! That's an impressive number and totally deserved!

@imgayasheck595 4 года назад

"Communism is for us not a state of affairs which is to be established, an ideal to which reality [will] have to adjust itself. We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things. The conditions of this movement result from the premises now in existence."-Karl Marx, The German Ideology

@jennypenny8635 2 года назад

@blorghised He didn't run a single "socialist" state. You are just unwilling to read theory.

@Sam-lr9oi 4 года назад

Why does it always sound like Peterson is about to cry? I don't even think it's a passion thing, he just sounds sort of frail?

@JebeckyGranjola 4 года назад

Cocaine. Now tell me about your mother!

@thaDjMauz 4 года назад

@@TubeWusel i dont quite understand what you're implying here

@HaxorSerialKiller 4 года назад

@@TubeWusel Thats right folks! The men who are most willing to be over run by feminism etc are actually the most manly that there is! Don't let common sense tell you otherwise!

@miro.georgiev97 4 года назад

@@thaDjMauz The tone of voice with which Jordan Peterson speaks sounds like it's "breaking" or "cracking," which is usually a sign that the speaker is either about to cry or is trying really hard _not_ to cry.

@Amateur_Pianist_472 4 года назад

HaxorSerialKiller over run by feminism? Yeah so manly.

@henryberrylowry9512 4 года назад

Peterson didn't even make an argument against the claim that economics underpins human relations. He didn'T give any examples.

@randomprimate 4 года назад

The conclusion of Red Plateau’s section had me feeling more optimistic than anything in recent memory. Excellent work! I needed this.

@hearreasons 4 года назад

Your criticism seems accurate and is very interesting. But, I think it is somewhat incomplete without addressing what someone like Peterson might base his straw man on. This also pertains to your video on Postmodernism/Identity politics. So here is the stereotype, which is actually fairly common throughout academia in the western world, as far as I can tell: 1. A young person leaning heavily left politically. 2. Often identifies as Marxist, or some variation thereof. 3. Does NOT identify as a postmodernist (does anyone?) BUT writes essays describing some current phenomena using Foucauldian discourse analysis or similar theory. 4. Is activist, and practice this activism in ways that are what we now call "Identity Politics" (for example by protesting/commenting on Peterson). So even though you might want to explain to Peterson (and rightly so) why Marxism has nothing to do with Postmodernism has nothing to do with Identity Politics, you would have to explain the same things to the described college student (which may also be a professor/professional, at which point the self-identifiers and theories are more sophisticated, but often still quite similar). I think one might argue that there is some relevance not only in what Marx actually said in his books, or what Derrida said in one of his speeches, which proves how someone like Peterson has misunderstood the theories, but also perhaps in why this misunderstanding should arise also in the supporters of these theories. It would be interesting to hear you dig into this matter in a video.

@heitorvinicius7828 3 года назад

Yes!!! It feels like Peterson or whoever goes along those lines is not adressing Marx or Derrida, but rather some kind of shade these authors seem to have conjured. The fact that Marx analysis was thorough, minute and methodical does not favor the idea that Marxism is sound and consistent. To put it plainly, Peterson is talking at the level of the average uncultured, uninformed youngster, who prattles endlessly over things he hasn't read, and later on shows himself as the epitome of that which he criticised. To me that's why his critiques ressonante so much, because in a world of few readers and many commentors, the least hypocritical person, regardless of their views, can be easily taken as reasonable and sensible.

@joshridinger3407 2 года назад

problem: peterson's criticisms of "those people" are just as idiotic.

@Laura-gd4ku Год назад

What Peterson does is simply reusing the old nazi theory about cultural Marxism. This is what he means when he speaks about Marxism

@allenanderson7769 Год назад

You have a point. My view is Peterson seems to be addressing the stereotypical views held today. It is more common of the stereotype to read the Communist Manifesto than it is for them to read Kapital or other works. He is arguing from the context of the Manifesto, not from Marx work as a whole... At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what Marx word's are. It matters how his ideas are materialized into the world by his disciples. It can be argued this incomplete 'view', so to speak of Marx, is just as prevalent in the modern Marxist world as it is from their criticizers. I have a rebuttal on Argument 1 - Nature: Peterson's argument: It's as if Nature does exist in Marx. CCK counter: Look at all the instances Marx mentions nature! This type of counter argument doesn't clarify. In fact, it does more to support Peterson's argument than not. From the counter argument context, Marx seems to define nature rather ambiguously (from a Peterson perspective) ... In some sense, Marx seems to view nature as a means to an end for pinnacle of human progress. "We can create nothing without nature". "We produce from nature in accord with human needs." "Labor is a process which man mediates (controls) the metabolism between man and nature". There is no argument here which reconciles man internal struggle (or the individual struggle) with nature itself. It's all about how we view nature in the context of Man's production. I think Peterson's argument is the relationship between Man and nature as defined in the Manifesto is very incomplete. The examples given in this video do not give a counter to Peterson's argument. ie: Nature is more than man's relationship as a provider of production. When you consider the stereotypical College "Marxist", it seems typical that nature is merely a tool which we can use to produce. ie: We can "mediate the relationship" solely for our benefit. To realize our full potential. Peterson's argument becomes clearer. He is essentially saying that the definition of 'nature' by Marx (or his disciples) is wrong. As far as the debate as a whole, Zizek has said many times he is a Hegelian. Peterson misread him as a Marxist. That is why the debate flowed the way it did. It's not that Zizek 'exposed' Peterson's arguments in anyway. He only exposed the fact that Peterson believed him to be a Marxist. Otherwise, Zizek did nothing to rebut any of Peterson's arguments. In some sense, the make very similar arguments from different perspectives.

@christopherhamilton3621 Месяц назад

@@heitorvinicius7828Peterson himself conjures up conflated bullshit.

@Senumunu 4 года назад

Peterson has been dodging his hard left and hard right critics so adamantly for so long it was only a matter of time before he humiliated himself infront of a large audience.

@kimberleychallis3932 4 года назад

Peterson thinks he understands Marx having only read The Communist Manifesto? I've never facepalmed so hard in my life.

@ithemba 4 года назад

It's great how he just keeps being utterly incapable of relating anything Zizek says with Marx because he has this narrow understanding of him, and in the same debate, at a later point in time, can't answer Zizek question where these Marxist professors he keeps mentioning actually can be found, and Peterson not being able to name one single name of a Marxist scholar, because at the same time he has this grotesquely blown up nonsensical understanding of "cultural Marxism".

@Enragedguy24 4 года назад

@@ithemba To be fair, most self proclaimed Marxists are much like most Christians or... pick an adherant of any ideology, philosophy or religion - shallow, simplistic. The caricature Peterson criticizes is often in full concert with reality.

@anclaudys 4 года назад

Enragedguy24 except that Marx doesnt contradict himself like the Bible does. So picking one aspect of Marx, you may end up agreeing with the rest by logical deduction. The manifesto is def not an analytical work o marx though. Its not an insightful book at all. Its a damn pamphlet. The manifesto is like a fucking Gawker article, whereas Das Capital is an actual philosophical book. I cannot stress how different they are. I suggest you take just one page from both books and compare them. Its almost as if different people wrote them

@Enragedguy24 4 года назад

@@anclaudys Oh I agree with that, they are incomparable in all aspects save for flowery metaphors perhaps as Marx was very fond of those. My problems with Marxism are many, but I've no problem with Marx's critiques of capitalism nor with the rightful critique of Peterson's... pathetic debate performance.

@riley8385 4 года назад

@@Enragedguy24 Big if true.

@subfreak1996 4 года назад

Jordan Peterson trying to explain anything: *plays Curb Your Enthusiasm theme song*

@noheroespublishing1907 4 года назад

Marx and Engles along with Darwin and Wallace are truly some of the most important people of their eras, who we still have much to learn from.

@bf42Harzen 4 года назад

LOL. The stupidity.

@whatabouttheearth 11 месяцев назад

@@bf42Harzen 🙄 Are you kidding me? I'd advise you to study Marx/Engels and Darwin/Wallace seriously until you realize just how much they aren't bullshitting.

@ThatOneGuy7550 4 года назад

You can tell Jordan Peterson just went on SparkNotes to build his flimsy argument. But then again, even then that's too charitable for someone like Peterson.

@Zephyr_Zeitgeist 4 года назад

It does seem like he only read a paragraph summary.

@9000ck 4 года назад

don't diss sparknotes.

@EasternStandardTim 4 года назад

9000ck right? Even sparknotes are better this. This Peterson guy must have just watched a couple of prager videos

@kazaddum2448 4 года назад

@@EasternStandardTim Peterson was in one, that should tell everything.

@Cyromantik 4 года назад

I was thinking just Wikipedia, or its lesser creationist cousin, Encyclopedia Galactica.

@wgjung1 4 года назад

I'm learning how to read Ulysses by Joyce, my parakeet is the teacher.

@ErkaaJ 4 года назад

juan gomez I don't know. My serpent and eagle read Thus Spoke Zarathustra for me, really enhanced the experience

@spazthespasticcolonel3874 4 года назад

I foresee some remarkable audiobooks!

@wgjung1 4 года назад

@@spazthespasticcolonel3874 My parakeet is opening a Patreon account, he's becoming an addicted to money.

@spazthespasticcolonel3874 4 года назад

@@wgjung1 Cool! I'm picturing a very popular RU-vid channel, called Parakeet Reads, or something like that, with the bird squawking, "Smash that like button, hit subscribe!"

@thepeacetimebookclub3029 4 года назад

To be fair, that sounds like a lot of fun.

@jonigazeboize_ziri6737 4 года назад

When you have to do a book report. But forgot to read the book.

@PokeDude1995 4 года назад

Anarchopac with that Music for Airports, what a fantastic choice

@look123look1 4 года назад

What is this, a crossover episode??

@nicanornunez9787 4 года назад

I would say that it makes me happy, but the key to being happy isn't a search for meaning... it's to just keep yourself busy with unimportant nonsense and eventually, we'll be dead.

@hrnekbezucha 4 года назад

Shut up,Tod!

@teatrinofanzine 4 года назад

Man oh, man, this is the best video explaining how terribly misread was Marx by Peterson. I mean there's a lot of videos out there about this but I learned a sweet bunch about Marx with this one. It was clear, concise and with well selected explanatory quotes. Cheers to Anarchopac and Red Plateaus! Thanks a lot!

@Krooksbane 4 года назад

Remember when Richard Wolff challenges Peterson to a debate, and he declined. Right after saying no Marxist would debate him. That says everything I need to know about Jordan fucking Peterson.

@semajsga 2 года назад

Hey guys, I'm starting to think Peterson doesn't know what Marxism is.

@JebeckyGranjola 4 года назад

Forget Jordan b. Peterson, its all about jesse lee peterson. Beyda! Why wasnt this debate on psychoanalysis, the field these two are actually qualified in? Lacan versus jung etc. Altho zztop has at least read primary economics texts unlike lobster boy. Amazin!

@senormuertos4351 4 года назад

Becky Granjola I would actually really have appreciated that. I haven’t read a lot of Lacan, but I agree with Zizek much more about politics, whereas I think JBP is really poor with his cultural criticism and politics, but I very much like Jung and his psychological concepts. It’d be nice to actually have JBP bring an argument to the table that he was proficient with, and one that wasn’t just ‘uh uh but Doestoyevsky said communism is bad, and I skimmed over the manifesto, and it’s definitely wrong.’

@riley8385 4 года назад

Implying psychoanalysis is a field that merits debate, ha. /jk

@senormuertos4351 4 года назад

Riley I mean certainly psychoanalysis is helpful and has a great deal of truth to it... but Jung is a guilty pleasure and has probably been more helpful to me personally.

@Senumunu 4 года назад

The terms of the debate were set as broadly as possible so Peterson can weasel himself out. It just backfired.

@kazaddum2448 4 года назад

JLP is the only worthy Peterson.

@magicznykokos7407 3 года назад

45:46 I like the fact that Zizek decided not to listen about anything that Peterson has been misrepresenting at the moment and instead had a interesting talk with guy next to him

@eyesofthecervino3366 5 месяцев назад

Heh. :]

@SandhillCrane42 9 месяцев назад

The thing about Marx-and Marxism generally-is that it doesn't address class. It's as though class doesn't exist for Marx. Never does he mention class in any of his writings. I should know, I've read it all.

@kateanon8791 4 года назад

Love the video! Any chance of getting English captions? I'd be willing to caption it myself if you turn on community caption suggestions, since I really want to be able to share with some Deaf friends. Thanks!

@rolexsmartwatch 4 года назад

Hello There, Thanks for your great work. Even though i can understand English very well ( I am not a native speaker) but it could be great to have the subtitles in English. Even the auto generated subtitles are not available. Thanks

@RadicalReviewer 4 года назад

Wonderful work everyone!!

@madi3265 4 года назад

Wow what a great collab! Would love to hear more from you all together again some day

@rodrigodeamoriza6879 4 года назад

Commenting to help the algorithm but also amazed about the great work on doing this. I really enjoyed this!

@jdizzle708 4 года назад

Jordan Peterson's voice startles my cat every time

@merdiste 3 года назад

UPVOTER 13 · · · Your pussy comment cracked me up, Joyce. I lived in TORONTO for almost six decades, a quarter century of which I lived in the CASA LOMA neighborhood, which is not all that far from where Jordan Peterson currently resides. · · · I consider Peterson to be pathologically antiMarxist. JP is a troubled fellow, in my estimation, often inserting uncalled-for comments about Marx, Lenin or whomever, regardless of the subject matter of his talk or whatever he is saying at the time. · · · NWS all else, I quite like Peterson, though I'm not a JORDIE like JOE ROGAN and others. I take Peterson with a grain of salt. BUDAPEST 2020 NOVEMBER 24 1.2 AM

@CONTlNGENCY 3 года назад

@@merdiste what

@zekeyeager8574 3 года назад

@@merdiste there's nothing wrong with liking jbp or Joe but you didn't have put it so .....weirdly.....in your comment.

@richardbeard9391 3 года назад

great video! always love to hear Anarchopac

@DrSpooglemon Год назад

Hey Peterson! Tell me you haven't read Marx without telling me you haven't read Marx! Peterson: OK. How long you got?

@cameron1866 4 года назад

Really well done guys, been waiting a while for something like this.

@squatch545 4 года назад

It's about time you uploaded a video !!

@ericbuhne3488 4 года назад

Wow, this video is really well done and well researched. Thanks for your hard work! Your explanation of Jordan's second argument is actually a terrific explanation of why Frankfurt school critical theory explains things as it does. Keep it up!

@CassandraForAGlobalTroy 2 года назад

I love "Marx doesn't talk about needs other than economic ones!" - What the heck is alienation if not a reflection of the fact that not all needs are productive in nature?

@FlyingCube 4 года назад

Oh boy, been hoping for someone to put something comprehensive together like this for a while

@combimagnetron6814 4 года назад

I kind of need this as a podcast.

@atrijitdas1704 4 года назад

this is really a great resource for learning marxist theory (a mere introduction to some ideas thereof). I grasped most of the points being made. Well done. So simple and accessible

@electro_fisher 4 года назад

commenting to help the algorithm! (also more collabs with lefttube personalities I can already tell this is wonderful)

@vallraffs 4 года назад

Commenting does that? Huh, who knew.

@vallraffs 4 года назад

@Maximilien Charles I think incels actually tend toward Petersons self-help philoshophy more than they do toward leftist youtube tbph.

@Wyrdangus 4 года назад

Maximilien Charles Incels are a part of the Red Pill (Still can’t get over how funny it is they use that term) community. Which is right wing, not left. At least cuckolds have gotten laid. I’d rather not be compared to pathetic excuses for humans, like the vast majority of the Red Pill “movement”.

@sumdesperatemusician 4 года назад

@@Wyrdangus wow, the woke crowd in favor of other people using their possessions just like a cuckold is okay with somebody fornicating with their spouse. Never heard that before. On a side note,how can a cuck can get laid if somebody else is having the action?

@IsmaelLopez-id7jo 4 года назад

yesss glad you're back

@drawingdownthestars 4 года назад

Wonderful! Proud to support you all.

@danielkim5860 4 года назад

Quality video. Thats all i have to say, amazing work

@blakeconner313 4 года назад

I’m a big Jordan Peterson fan and it’s always interesting to see a discourse From the other side. I recently read the Communist Manifesto to get a feel for this whole ideology I hated, but didn’t understand why. I do feel I have a more intrinsic understanding of Marxism but I’d be hard-pressed to say I GET IT, I’d never even heard of the books this video mentions. That being said, it’s disappointing to see Jordan’s generalizations about the ideology as a whole. This video makes me understand that. From my understanding, I’m still not a fan of Marxism or Communism for that matter, but discourse is the way to opening the mind’s eye. Keep seeking truth!

@BURPLEpriest 4 года назад

The communist manifesto would be like reading the Ten Commandments and saying you know everything about Christianity or the Declaration of Independence and saying you now everything about democracy. It’s a book not to be read and understand Marxism, there are way better books written by Engels which explain the ideology

@davidhoran7116 3 года назад

Das Kapital is an important read, but it’s thiccer than the fuckin bible lmao. “The conquest of bread” is a bit lighter, written slightly more simply.

@UnicornSiren 3 года назад

The communist manifesto is a great example of marxism.

@Fragenzeichenplatte 3 года назад

@Blake Conner: You hate Marxism but haven't even heard about the books Marx wrote?? "discourse is the way to opening the mind’s eye. Keep seeking truth!" That is nice but what does that mean in practice? Your mind wasn't opened because nothing has changed. You still don't like Marxism and you are still a fan of Peterson.

@darksid007 3 года назад

@@Fragenzeichenplatte being open minded about something doesn't mean you like it, it means that you gave it a fair shot. Karl Marx tried to convince workers, he knew not everybody would be on board immediately.

@zeroclout6306 4 года назад

Excellent collaboration. Y'all should do more like this.

@fercos33 4 года назад

thanks for doing these vids. excellent stuff

@Killerstar13 4 года назад

I'm starting to get the feeling, that the only time when Jordan Peterson knew what he was talking about, was when we had that website, that could synthesize his voice. Thank you for this.

@ernestojordanpena2827 4 года назад

Very enlightening video! It clerared several of my own doubts on marxism

@sepulpedro 4 года назад

You're back 🔥🔥

@westleymontgomery3242 4 года назад

Commenting for the algorithm; great video!

@micahgmiranda 4 года назад

I hadn't realized Peterson was still relevant.

@tite93 4 года назад

He's not, but his statements are a good basis for rebuttal and education

@danielnikitin2020 4 года назад

Your gonna laugh but Germany news networks actively promote him

@whatabouttheearth 11 месяцев назад

Not so fun fact: Young Earth Creationists and "Intelligent Design" fools still have followings also

@Snakenoob7 4 года назад

Bruh I was gonna sleep but okay

@neoepicurean3772 4 года назад

This helped me sleep...

@karl5722 4 года назад

This kept me awake

@orctowngrot8842 8 месяцев назад

Excellent response to the discussion. Thank you.

@AncientOrange 4 года назад

I really love the content that you bring to youtube. You've given me faith that intellectually complex analysis of topics philosophic in nature

@ChicagoMonsterPunk 4 года назад

I’m not a Marxist nor a communist but I’m truly fascinated by Marx’s thoughts. I didn’t learn a lot by watching this video but I’m glad you made it because it will surely debunk a lot of myths surrounding Marxism.

@lutherblissett9070 4 года назад

@Antaios He didn't start that at all, as he was a product of his time, when capitalism was a new thing, when feudalism was ending and because he saw that change, he could imagine the end of capitalism too. Others in his era thought the same thing too, he was not exceptional in that sense.

@lutherblissett9070 4 года назад

@Antaios I can't speak on the etymology of the word, or if capitalism was a nameless system before the 1850s, I was just trying to point to the rapid, dizzying change that he was witnessing, in contrast to the way we imagine the world now, and how that context helped form the ideas and discussions he would have had. As for the history of the idea that labour created value, that goes as far back as Plato, through Ibn Khaldun, Adam Smith, and David Ricardo. Marx even acknowledges that. He used Smith and RIcardo's logic and collected heaps of data to develop the idea into a theory.

@GherkinPickleGroyper 4 года назад

@7th808s is it moreso that Labour OUGHT to be the determinant of value, not is? Isn't value subjective? Like if it takes the same labor to kill and skin a duck and a chicken but I'm willing to personally pay more.for the one I enjoy more, dont I make the value? Isn't that called like marginal utility? And wasn't Smith also someone who believed in labor theory of value?

@whatabouttheearth 11 месяцев назад

I'd suggest the channel Dissident Theory, all his video so far are on Capital. After the initial investment, when the person or people who started a company breaks even, everything, even "expenses" and initial resources are being paid for by surplus value. So at a certain point EVERYTHING is being paid for by the workers labor, all the bosses paychecks, all the company expenses, all the new equipment or initial materials to make commodities, ALL of it, the entire freaking capitalist class essentially, is paid for by the labor of the workers through surplus value. That is one of the many reasons it is exploitation. An entire class is completely sustained off of profit stolen (surplus value) from the workers. Unless it's new the workers have paid for the entirety of the workplace they work at, and the paycheck of the hierarchy, and the machines and tools. The workers already paid for the means of production, literally. Yet others "own" the means of production, and use the means of the production to control the workers who use the means of production to sustain all of this.

@whatabouttheearth 11 месяцев назад

@@lutherblissett9070 Feudalism was already over by the mid 19th century, by far. Hell, the Industrial revolution in England began in the late 18th century. You have your time line off. Marx was an expert on the transition from Feudalism to Capitalism, that how he began all this, if you studied the historical modes of production you would understand just how much Marx and Engels understood the developments of the historical timeline. After the initial investment, when the person or people who started a company breaks even, everything, even "expenses" and initial resources are being paid for by surplus value. So at a certain point EVERYTHING is being paid for by the workers labor, all the bosses paychecks, all the company expenses, all the new equipment or initial materials to make commodities, ALL of it, the entire freaking capitalist class essentially, is paid for by the labor of the workers through surplus value. That is one of the many reasons it is exploitation. An entire class is completely sustained off of profit stolen (surplus value) from the workers. Unless it's new the workers have paid for the entirety of the workplace they work at, and the paycheck of the hierarchy, and the machines and tools. The workers already paid for the means of production, literally. Yet others "own" the means of production, and use the means of the production to control the workers who use the means of production to sustain all of this.