Learning from Chinese Philosophy with Prof. Bryan Van Norden | Oxford China Forum 2020 - Events No.1

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Thoughts from Event Host Yifei Chen:
I think the 90+ participants in attendance from different time zones and academic disciplines could all have agreed on one thing, that it was difficult not to be impressed by Prof. Van Norden’s passion and depth of knowledge. One can almost see a resemblance between the charismatic professor labouring to put Chinese philosophy on the map in western academic philosophy and Confucius going around the Warring States (the universities?), trying to convince them to follow his ideas. Flowing effortlessly from Kant’s racist views to insightful interpretations of Zhuangzi’s sceptical arguments, he gave a thorough and brilliant defence of the idea that Chinese philosophy is nuanced, insightful and relevant to problems discussed in modern Western academic philosophy. It was an honour to host such a wonderful guest for our first event of the term, and I’m sure Prof. Van Norden will be back with OCF in the future, if only to answer all those leftover questions from October’s enthusiastic audience.
Video Editor: Zixi Cai

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16 ноя 2020

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Комментарии : 68

@oentoengjahja712 2 года назад

Amazing presentation about chinese philosophy, indeed the professor has depth understanding about the topic.

@Its_Utje Год назад

This was educational for me as a student of philosophy because we don’t get taught this at our university

@HipHopLived 5 месяцев назад

"King Wen" (as in "Culture") "doesn't perish". Good one, I hadn't caught that before. Thank you to the translators in your anthology sir.

@AthenaMarriesDionysus Год назад

This is wonderful and I will be looking at your channel Bryan and I might buy your books some day!

@HipHopLived 5 месяцев назад

The bit about Kant is in the Introduction to the Critique of Pure Reason.

@AfricanThinker86 5 месяцев назад

Excellent presentation!

@iExamineLife 3 месяца назад

thank you 🙏

@nataliamironova1507 8 месяцев назад

Thank you for the in-depth exposition of the situation in philosophy and the roots of attitude to Chinese philosophy among others. Thank you again, and sorry for the critical remark regarding the first slide on Conzi mentioning "social chaos." It would be better to use a "social disorder" as on the following slide on Mozi, or even better a "social disruption." Chaos, in general, is an extremely meaningful category that should be more carefully protected from demonizing either in the past or the future. Words contain meanings. Semantic is important.

@HipHopLived 5 месяцев назад

Btw Heidegger's "throwness" is in Hegel, it is the "throwing of the dice" in paragragh 712 of the Phenomenology. Dostoevsky's "Gambler". Shows up again when Foucault explicates his "Archeology" (since we proceed as without a guide, an "oracle" being the word both Foucault and Hegel uses.. In the revolutionary crisis, "the gods are silent" - Hegel; Foucault is of course talking about REVOLUTION!!!!)

@HipHopLived 5 месяцев назад

You know it shouldn't sound megalomaniacal when WE say it. You have dignity, too. YOU'RE SACRED.

@HipHopLived 5 месяцев назад

Freud once said that the use of the hands is where a child first begins to assert control over his environment. Questions are raised about the general character of Mr. Hui. Is he a "small man"? Italians are known for their hand gestures, in Spanish the word used for "mani-pulative" is "mañoso".

@HipHopLived 5 месяцев назад

Schopenhauer said "He who changes himself changes the world." (In the second volume). When the spirit of evil is JEALOUSY, then truly that Statement is True. (We can hear it scream from afar, and finally the Time has come).

@HipHopLived 5 месяцев назад

Btw, "House of the Dead" by Dostoevsky refers to "the crystal" as "the meme" ("eternal return of the same") in the Phenomenology. The Crystal-Image in Deleuze which is speaking about a very OBJECTIVE kind of HYPNOSIS. (Hence "Anti-Oedipus")

@HipHopLived 5 месяцев назад

I love that film (little shop of horrors)

@HipHopLived 5 месяцев назад

You know my grandfather adored China, he thought she was the Future. Queer those Frenchmen, they liked Mexico AND China. (Derrida's concern with anthropology, Batailles and Artaud on Mexico, Kristeva on China)

@HipHopLived 5 месяцев назад

You know I'm the Son of God, right? I mean it's gotten to the point it doesn't even sound megalomanical when I say it. Anyway, one of the etymological translations of "Junzi", right? THANK YOU FOR THE LECTURES MR. NORDEN! I am also "Son of Man" because I listen closely :)

@HipHopLived 5 месяцев назад

5.9 The Master said to Zigong, “How would you compare yourself with Yan Hui?” Zigong answered, “How dare I even think of comparing myself with Hui? When Hui learns one thing, it allows him to immediately grasp ten. When I learn one thing, I am able to grasp two.” The Master said, “No, you are not the equal of Hui. You or I-neither of us is the equal of Hui.” This is a metaphysical statement about identity in logic. It's hard to deny that notions such as "last and the first" or "Noble Eightfold Path" have numerological connotations. Not to mention Plato's "the one and the many", or the way Biblical verses are organized. One might then raise the question about the meaning of "ten", for example "grasping" (as in Hellenistic philosophy "comprehension" really was compared to manual grasping) and the fingers on our hands.

@HipHopLived 5 месяцев назад

I fear I may've actually used "language game" the way Wittgenstein meant to use it.

@stevenzheng5459 Год назад

I've always thought Hegel was the first to state that philosophy is Greek and other cultures (i.e. China) did not have philosophy. I guess Hegel's "Philosophy of History" was a continuation of Kant's lectures. I've never read Kant's lectures on anthropology and his Eurocentric views of mankind.

@HipHopLived 5 месяцев назад

Discernment -> Division. The one and the many.

@HipHopLived 5 месяцев назад

Sorry, Magnus Hirschfeld not John Money.

@nataliamironova1507 8 месяцев назад

Zuangzi entered and played on the field of multi-paradigms world?

@HipHopLived 5 месяцев назад

I mean inferring from "a = b" that "a = b" = "a = a". On the surface that sounds dandy, it's merely a question in some cases of total identity. BUT just because the morning star refers to the same as the evening star, does not mean there is no difference in sense. It is precisely in the difference in sense that the cognitive value lies. So sayeth Frege (indeed "a = b" is NOT the same statement as "a = a", EVEN IF both statements have the same reference)

@HipHopLived 5 месяцев назад

Perhaps you noticed that Levi-Strauss' savage appears in Frege, as someone that makes thoughtless statements, someone with ill judgement, taking an utterly concrete form, "inferring" fallaciously (the demogogue in "Sense and Reference") from "a = b" = "a = a", I mean someone who eliminates sense from language. And when I say "concrete" I mean "bricks in the wall". (A magic spell of social isolation - total egotism).

@HipHopLived 5 месяцев назад

Did you catch the part where Kant says his logic is based on "Mother Wit", or the "Second Part" of the logic of the Frenchman, Pierre de la "Ramie"? "Ramera" is how you say "Whore" in Spanish.

@HipHopLived 5 месяцев назад

7.20 The Master said, “I am not the kind of person who is born with knowledge. Rather, I am the kind of person who loves antiquity, and who diligently looks there for knowledge.” You know that could be a statement about Experience, empiricism v. rationalism, aristotle v. plato; that sort of thing. I guess I'm talking to an expert here, I shouldn't assume he doesn't KNOW.

@HipHopLived 5 месяцев назад

You know the Inkas forbade cannibalism and human sacrifice, much as did, the Zhou. 6.11 The Master said, “What a worthy man was Yan Hui! Living in a narrow alley, subsisting upon meager bits of rice and water-other people could not have borne such hardship, and yet it never spoiled Hui’s joy. What a worthy man was Hui!” I however, incline to make very public exceptions, no theater; I'm not "making examples" (humankind, I mean ren people, is nothing like them) - the idea is that no one will want to look outside.

@MeunisyKi 4 дня назад

20:20 side note: let’s also not forget that it was thanks to Islamic philosophers that Europe got dragged out of the dark ages.. something that the enlightenment thinkers acknowledged openly up until the late 1700’s, but then suddenly this was written out of the history books as well…

@HipHopLived 5 месяцев назад

In fact she says as much in the last chapter of Intercourse, "That 'sex' is Death."

@HipHopLived 5 месяцев назад

I mean, look, have you ever considered that the notion of "a vessel" is paradoxical? It's a solid object, and yet it isn't. In context I think it refers to the Rectification of Names, since it is paradoxical that language can talk about itself, as paradoxical as it is that my eye can see itself (and yet we have anatomical science)

@HipHopLived 5 месяцев назад

"We all stumble in the beginning ('Genesis')" - literally what everybody's mom will tell them.

@HipHopLived 5 месяцев назад

I'm sure you're familiar with Levi-Strauss' "Savage" (he's not talking about a tribe in Africa or Southeast Asia, he's talking about a demon that haunts centers of power, including influential people - influential for their genius, the spirit they are given, which may be Holy, for example)

@HipHopLived 5 месяцев назад

Also can you imagine what they could do with wigs, armor and puffy "medieval romance" clothes? *sips glass of wine longingly*

@HipHopLived 5 месяцев назад

Prior to the creation of Eve, tradition has it, The Adam was One, primordial and androgynous. He also couldn't discern ("Knowledge of Good and Evil", judgment). So he was more like a crystal ("the crystal is the simulacrum of individuality", it's in Schopenhauer's first volume. Yes, really) or a tree (the healing of the blind man at Bethsaida) than a Man. Evolution is in the Bible. *turns in roulette chips*

@HipHopLived 5 месяцев назад

In a sense... it's a simple rhetorical trick, like throwing rocks with words. I'm talking about evening, not morning, and suddenly I'm interrupted, "But, what, DON'T YOU GET IT!? They're talking about the same thing." That's missing the cognitive point of my statement. It's as if someone had a broken sense of "time" and "place". No sense of courtesy or decorum.

@HipHopLived 5 месяцев назад

By the way the "Ku" in "Ku Klux Klan" is pronounced "Q". Balaam Ku, the Chinese Emperor Ku. They're obsessed with that stuff.

@HipHopLived 5 месяцев назад

"3.18 The Master said, 'If in serving your ruler you are careful to observe every detail of ritual propriety, others will [wrongly] think you obsequious.'" Surely you caught the bit of the... Lun Yu ("Analects" was probably coined by The Jesuits... You do bring up The Jesuits, right?) that says "[Student] asked the Master how one ought to serve his... 'Lord', Confucius responded, 'Do not deceive him, oppose him immediately.'" You are a fool if you think the parenthetical "wrongly" is appropriate. As for Mainland China, I shall be as a great Dragon. I shall conquer the World and spare no country, nor their petty delusions.

@R_Priest 4 месяца назад

Turn in your father for cheating on his income tax? Are you kidding?! You turn him in for murder, rape and violent assault, not something as trivial as jaywalking or fudging on his income tax.

@HipHopLived 5 месяцев назад

A name should refer properly. Don't you agree? *makes threatening gesture*

@HipHopLived 5 месяцев назад

He couldn't think. Reflect. Negation of the negation. Etc. Had to be, and Revelation is Genesis backwards cuz "The beginning is the end and the end is the beginning". We have to start THINKING and stop JUDGING IN THE SENSE OF CONDEMNING. (So Eve did the Right thing in doing the "wrong" thing; did you know that's in the Ha'dith of Muhammad? "How Adam over-powered Moses")

@HipHopLived 5 месяцев назад

6.7 The Master said, “Ah, Yan Hui! For three months at a time his heart did not stray from ren. The rest of them could only achieve such a state by fits and starts.” Sir, this man sounds like a cold and calculating hypocrite. Mao got the wrong people you see, it's the people that instigate that sort of thing, etc.

@HipHopLived 5 месяцев назад

The Arabs before Islam were fond of nick-names. Are we sure Huan Tui is not Yuan Hui backwards and re-arranged by some common school child's language game?

@HipHopLived 5 месяцев назад

That all happened... You know I'm infuriated, right? Like "Second Major Temple of Mexico City" mad. (Like I'll make musical instruments out of your...

@HipHopLived 5 месяцев назад

Like his wife's friends? They were "actors"...

@stevenhazel4445 2 года назад

I think Kant was onto something.

@TheMahayanist Год назад

While Westerners were ignorant squalid and illiterate, India was studying epistemology.

@R_Priest 4 месяца назад

It's very ironic coming from Kant, given that his philosophy is basically a derivative of Eastern philosophy. Noumenon/phenomenon? C'mon, this is quintessentially Eastern. Of course, ditto Schopenhauer. And Kant still believed in "God" and was a churchgoer. So much for his vaunted philosophy.

@advancedmonkey7702 2 года назад

I appreciate how he was using the words like "sYsTeMaTic rAcIsM" to subtly let his audience know not to take him too seriously, save me some time too.

@gomey70 2 года назад

Sure, stick your head in the sand and ignore historical facts.

@mikearrani3299 2 года назад

Yes, it's also a good way to filter out people for whom such concepts are too complex.

@TheMahayanist Год назад

Systematic racism is a real thing.

@karenburrows9184 Год назад

Just thought you'd like to know there is a difference between 'systemic' and 'systematic'. The first means throughout the system or organization or group. The second means a deliberate progression of planned steps or events leading to a desired conclusion. What the professor said was systemic racism. I don't know if this will help you, as you seem to be attempting to "hit above your weight".

@peterkerj7357 7 месяцев назад

I like how you used silly capitalization to prove that the words are wrong.

@choyng5437 Год назад

1. No separate school of study of philosophy in ancient China. Ancient Chinese did had literature, history and philosophy that were actually mixed together. 2. Confucius is not a philosopher, if so, you are arguing that Buddha, Jesus Christ or Mohammad are all philosophers as you understand them. 3. Other cultural traditions did have their own methods of understanding life and the world around them, but shouldn’t as you argue to frame/study/understand them within the western philosophical framework. You are as European centric as those you argue against including Chinese philosophy into the study of philosophy in western countries.

@jonathanshauf9191 Год назад

1. that doesn't mean its not philosophy 2. that doesn't follow at all 3. this presupposes philosophy = western philosophy

@karenburrows9184 Год назад

1. Even the Chinese acknowledge there were, based on some of the philosophers the professor mentioned, at least eight major schools of thought prominent in the 100 schools of thought developed from ancient philosophers. 2. You seem to be confusing ethical/societal philosophers with religious philosophers. And yes, those religious figures you mentioned were all originally religious philosophers. Kongzi was not building a religion or stating that his word was the word of god, nor have his beliefs become a religion anywhere in the world. 3. There are no separate methods of philosophy according to culture. Basic moral values, which is what philosophy studies, remain the same throughout the world. It is how the culture experience dictates their thought processes in establishing philosophical beliefs; which mutate from generation to generation. How you perceive someone European who is teaching Chinese philosophy as Eurocentric is beyond me. The last part of that sentence I cannot make any sense out of.