I really appreciate both of you for doing a great job in making a short yet very informative video. But the most important thing was showing the sale price where no one else is willing to share. Keep up the good work.
Mike and Jennifer, I love your reporting. Super informative and professional delivery. I am 2 to 5 years away from retirement and would love to travel and see this great land in a class B. This episode helped me see the variety in features, build quality, and pricing. Very helpful!
Nice job! You two make a good team! Thanks for your time and efforts. It appears all those years in the media market of Detroit helped prepare both of you for the life you now lead. Hope you continue to enjoy your 'retired' life!
You guys are very informative, and I appreciate you lots, but for actually buying, I'm gonna go back to getting ideas at the "cheap RV living" channel, lol! One thing interesting... no matter the income, if you've got the travel bug, there's a way to do it! Love of exploring is what all of us have in common, and the characters one meets on the way is a bonus! :)
great job! like you got into the details esp panel,and how running air conditioner is a huge problem without re-charging,and fulltime living in hot states.
My youngest daughter and her husband live in Glendale, if I had known they were having a Class B RV show there I would have told her to go and have a look. I just purchased a 2018 Winnebago Travato 59K last week, the floor plan is similar to the first one you looked at. This is my first RV and so far I am loving it.
Thanks for this great video! I'd like to see a big window in the bathroom with glasses that people can not see in but I can see out for butterflies and birds.
I’d buy the 50,000 class b. Just because of the shower size alone. I wouldn’t fit in the 150,000 RT bath. My older RT has the aisle shower. Lots of room. Genius invention for bigger guys. Not sure why RT discontinued that? Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for this comparison. All that I want is a vehicle that is reliable, won't break down on the road, and has a bed. Like my old 1980s Dodge Ram Van that had an "ice box" and a fold down rear sofa bed. I can supply all of my camping needs. Sadly, they do not make basic campervans, assuming that people want all the bells and whistles. I just want a van that can handle dirt Forest Service and BLM roads and have a place to sleep inside to avoid the roaming bears and mountain lions. A friend of mine said that what I want is a rolling metal tent. True. From your great review, seems as though the Carado Banff is the closest to what I want as to price and amenities. Even that has more than I need. Great review...and thumbs up!
Very nice...Thank you. Leisure Travel Vans are still the best quality. Hands Down!. I saw them last week at the same show and they are impressive!! Unity is my favorite!!
PS one of the things that you're RV sales person will never tell you is that you can't park on city streets overnight in the Phoenix Metro area just thought I'd mention it. Cheap RV living is the way to go stealth camping don't make it look like an RV. When I saw the picture for the video I said that's got to be Arizona cuz that's the stadium in Glendale used to live right down the street. Again I have to stick up for Ford Transit van. You can get the extended length on the long chassis and that gives you 41 and 1/2 inch storage behind the rear wheel well. Waiting for mine to arrive good video thank you.
I went to the L.A RV show at the Pomona Fairplex. I saw the Carado van for myself. The Carado has the roomiest bathroom. If the manufacturer would put a pop top in it, I probably would buy it. I like the Aktiv 2.0 with a pop top.
I remember when you did a show last summer and stated that manufactures were having problems with quality control. Boy were you right Mike! Consumers have no rights when it comes to purchasing RVs. Manufacturers can say wonderful things about how much they have improved QC but it's just hot air and say whatever sounds good to the consumer but still nothing gets done. We have been out twice for several weeks at a time but the joy and confidence of our rig is not fun and will have to take a big hit to finally get what we spent money for, and lots of it!!!!
Cool thing is that you needn't any know-how! But truly, yes, there are ppl who'd rather buy expensive just to buy expensive. They've already driven up the price of tiny homes by getting giddy about it, making manufacturers well off and good for them but, good luck to the invisible middle class... They'll have to build their own. Many of which end up building their own, incredibly comfortable tiny house on wheels inside vehicles, instead. Vans, buses, refurbished rv's. ☺️
Two Watt you gotta shop around. Plenty of quality products to choose from at decent prices and many people do what they can, get everything livable and continue to build onto that as they go. And some simply live with what's available to them with what money they gave and still create a perfectly comfortable, beautiful living and traveling space.
The newer RT's are ok, but I most definitely prefer the inside layout of the 1995, 190 Versatiles. The bathroom and shower area are much bigger with the two doors that shut off the bathroom/shower area front and back in the older models. There is so much more to like in the older models like choices between using electric, propane and 12 volt appliances. And with the doors, you have three separate enclosed spaces.
I have a 95 Versatile 190 and agree with you completely. The newer Class B's look great on the showroom floor with the open interiors and lots of windows but the livability is awful. The galley area is usually the worst with no counter space and the stove out in the open with no backsplash or vent hood so it makes a huge mess if you cook. I actually cook in my kitchen, bathe in my shower, and sleep in my bed. I've taken trips with both my mother in law and adult daughter on separate occasions and the ability to section the van in to a master bedroom and guest bedroom worked perfectly.
So.....it May be a great idea to travel to Phx or another snow bird area to tour their offerings and maybe score such a deal(?) I'm in Michigan agree the major focus is 5th wheels the entire skis only has a few dozen Class Bs. I'd love to see so many offerings!!!
I was at that same show! I like the class b campers but can’t understand the pricing (I call it gouging). These vans are for the most part factory issued exteriors with minor additions. A friend of mine just bought a new sprinter high top , so same as the 150k class b, this van cost him just under 40k. I see roughly 20k in materials and I estimate the installation at most 10k. That is 40+20+10= 70k total cost , so what do you get for the extra 80k? A pretty key farb?
I thought that too, until I had a custom class B built. Three men have been working on it for eight months, and they still have another two or three weeks to go. I visit their shop every week so I know they're not wasting time or working on other projects. If everything had worked out perfectly the first time, they might have been able to build it in five months. If they were building on a production line, maybe a month. Certainly no less than that. Also, you're way off on the materials cost. My van has a 600 amp lithium battery which costs $5400 plus shipping. Add a 3000w inverter, a 200a lithium specific charger, a battery monitor, remote start/stop module (for automatically starting the engine when the battery is low), a second high output alternator plus an upgraded original alternator and the dual alternator compatible voltage regulator, and the total for electrical equipment alone is about $15k. The wholesale discounts on these things is not that much because they're specialty items which are not mass produced. So the total materials are nearly three times more than your estimate. And those are fair prices. I know because I created the materials list when I designed the van so I shopped for everything personally.
Yes, there's a lot of variables that can greatly effect the final price for any build. Build quality, included features and options, not only material costs but cost of using specific materials and whether they need specialty tools can vary, the amount of labor involved can vary by a lot depending on whether the product is being mass produced or custom built, the complexity of build can also vary with things like advance wiring systems that allow for more advance features to be available that would be far more expensive to retrofit, costs to prototype if creating new features, etc. While people should also be wary not to confuse depreciated/discounted prices from the original costs... RV's do tend to depreciate rapidly but it's mainly those that are not well built that depreciate the most. Low cost models can have issues like the structure flexes enough that after a few months the laminated materials are already delaminating... Cabinet doors may get out of alignment... There's far more use of imitation materials in low cost builds... Light fixtures, plumbing, and wiring may not be entirely properly done... Basically a long list of things that can be wrong with it and are more likely with a low cost model. Cost variations also involves what gets put into them as well... More expensive appliances, etc. will of course also effect the final price... While outward appearances can easily be deceiving as to whether you're actually getting a quality product or not. Mind, low cost models can end up costing someone multiple times what they paid for it with all the repairs and maintenance they can end up having to do on it. Not to say there's no price gouging but a good portion of the pricing differences has valid reasons behind them and thus why some people are willing to pay a premium to get a better product and/or just something that better fits their use case...
I do understand the variables as I was a protect/mechanical engineer, so these kind of builds were what I did for 40 years. Skipping the custom builds with an open checkbook. Most everything I see in the class b’s are off shelf or easy fabrication. The bodies were not modified other than bolt on ground effects. You can buy a class c that has a custom body added for 10k less than the cheapest b. If they sell these at same volume the b should be a little less than the c. I don’t know the class b volume of sales so not sure as that would be a major factor. The 59k b they had was a hymer which is a respected European manufacturer , they build these in Canada. Dodge should be able to market these direct for 45-50k and make a big impact. Engineering wise the design in cad would be about 30 hours but with design teams that figure would more than likely double. So 60 hours at 100/hour is 6000 , say you sell 1000 units then each unit would need to recoup 6000/1000 or 60$ ( not much ) . Rough estimate of materials that I saw would be 10k (I came up with 6500 but erring high). Production assembly is hard to say for me but in my old (union) shop the first pc would be 8-10k ,production line would cut this in near 1/2. Summery of what I’m saying is that reducing price with an increased less expensive sales force would make a much better entire level product in the 45-50 k area where everyone is still making money.
Sorry but I don't think you're actually understanding... Again, there are significant differences between the lower and higher cost models. Low cost models don't get things like lithium power systems, they don't have smart home like features where just about everything can be automated and run from even a tablet or smart phone, they don't have custom made fixtures and furniture made of real wood with custom joinery like dovetails, etc. You won't see advance power system that will auto activate a generator or engine to charge the batteries when they're low or advance heating and cooling systems like radiant floor heating, heat pumps and AC ducting in low cost models. These things in fact get heavily modified... They start with bare bones vehicles that are little more than the engine, drivers cab, and chassis frame. So they don't come with plumbing or wiring for anything that isn't vehicle related. RV's get 15/30/50/100 Amp service wiring, multiple water tanks, ports, vents, multiple subsystems, leveling jacks, etc. Except for the base vehicle chassis and the base hardware components just about everything is hand made and when conforming to a frame with curved and uneven surfaces means everything has to be custom fitted... Class B's also vary in length between and around 17 to 24 feet and the doors, and other structural aspects can be modified as well. The Winnebago Revel, for example, has bump outs to make more room for the elevator bed, along with advance features like 4x4 drive and insulated plumbing with heating so it can handle freezing cold temperatures. Just like trucks, there's also price differences between diesel and gas models and they're working towards hybrids and EV models now too. There's really a long list of reasons why the costs can vary by a lot... Really, even just the solar power system and lithium batteries will cost you more than $10K... Btw, Class B's start around $40K and Class C's start around $60K... So you're not going to find a cheaper Class C unless it's a cheaper build or depreciated model and that also means the entry models are already in the range you're suggesting... There's just a big difference between what the entry model offers and what the higher end models can offer...
@Athol Dickson If it's not too personal, where are you having your build made, chassis and final cost? Thanks! (Just curious if my dream to have a custom-made is only a pipe dream....maybe if I have to ask, I can't afford it??)
Hows it drive? , all filters fluid changed?, no awnings ? Hear u say u r changing house batteries out , grey, bkack , fresh tanks leak ? Is wet bay heated ? , im interested , please answer these questions ? No sude cameras ?
Thanks for showing these!...I thought the Roadtrek - at nearly $150K was almost "Meh". For some reason, RT continues to use the same finish/color schemes of 10 years ago, while most others have gone more "Euro" style/finish. RTs look dated to me. Meanwhile, the sub-$70K units are underwhelming in fit and finish, but might be fine for light usage.
I agree. Roadtrek is an industry leader when it comes to the systems powering the coach, but they desperately need to update/upgrade the interior design of all their vans. Truth is, their build quality is sub-par across the board, compared to brands like Pleasure Way and Airstream. I expect better at this price range. High price vans like the CS should be much more modern looking and better built, and this particular one isn't even loaded loaded. You can easily spec a CS to over $200k if you add desirable options!
I like LTV. They are well built and modern looking coaches, but they're way behind when it comes to the electrical systems powering the coach. I don't even think they offer more than 200 watts of solar or lithium batteries at all yet, which is ridiculous at this late date. In my opinion, for too long RV manufacturers have been lazy about innovation and implementing new technologies, but buyers are beginning to expect more, especially as prices rise through the roof.
My point is that solar and lithium technology have been around long enough to be standard equipment by now. A coach with decent solar (at least 500w) and an ample lithium battery bank (at least 400 amp hrs) shouldn't cost me thousands of dollars extra when I'm already spending over $140k for the base coach. It's ridiculous.
That just not true. Roadtrek offers up to 600 watts of solar and 1600 amp hrs of lithium battery power. Obviously, I'm not suggesting that those specs should be standard, but there are still many brands that don't offer any standard solar and AGM batteries are still the norm across the board, not lithium.
The Roadtrek also offers you a 4WD option...if you ski..that's a big feature as mine has become a portable lockeroom around Tahoe which has 8 choices to ski at... thus avoiding paying at each and every ski area you goto
So far I've found that the pleasure way and road trek have a 5 and 6 yr warranty respectively. For me it will probably be one of those two. Also, it will have to incorporate lithium battery's as well. That's the future for sure.
The pricing is crazy though, I mean you know it's more for an RV on a Mercedes chassis, verse say a ford Orr Chevy one As far as solar 475 Watts or more is what people do when they do it themselves this way here you can run everything and a backup generator just in case can't wait to do this my retirement
Great tour. I would not buy a new class b. I would go used 10 years. Unfortunately I see no value in the cheapest or the most expensive. Things are so overpriced now unfortunately. What about the pop up bed on the roof? Where are mom and dad supposed to sleep. :(
For those questioning the higher price points on Class B's It boils down to this... There is very little the vendor can do to use mass production time saving using pre-built components for the interior due to the highly restrictive space. Components must be installed in small sections and teams must effectively work consecutively instead of concurrently due to the space restrictions. This adds to the build time which means a Class B production line inherently produces fewer units per week than say a class C line, which can have much more pre-built into the box before it is attached to the chassis cab. The end result is the Class B must cost as much or more to build than many class C's because they take more time to make regarding total human work hours. So why should people buy Class B's, well the main reason is the ease of maneuvering these units and the fact that so few of them are subject to restrictions relating to "over-sized" limitations in state parks and other places, they are easier and cheaper to store when not used, better mpg if will be used for high mileage driving, and the owner no longer needs to use a tow dolly hauling a car behind them. Also many of the high end B's, over $110k are now coming with the newer technologies on electric like lithium batts and under-hood based generators, better and higher capacity inverters, etc... that's a class b in a nut shell.
These units are marketed to the elderly those that have lost their desire to drive and have lots of money from down sizing and nothing better to do with it. The rmv loves these purchases. Imagine shelling out 150k then 9k sales tax then 5k a year for insurance. for a couple of week ends in a small box outside with the elements. For that I would put the money in the bank and take 2 10k vacations a years. And never worry where I parked the 150k truck. By the way 10k buys lots of rental time in an rv if you must.
So why are they so much more affordable, comparatively, in Europe? So many cute, more affordable small RVs in Europe. Big overdone American tanks like the Adventurous XL over here. Only in America would "XL" be a selling point!
The Banff is built by Hymer which now owns Roadtrek. Is that correct? (Similar in size to the Roadtrek Simplicity SRT Promaster). But It has a combination black/ gray water tank which seems like a bad idea.
The cheap one can have essentially the same features. The difference is in the materials and workmanship. Pressboard and staples versus real screws and real wood for example.
The BIGGEST reason for the VAST price difference is the vehicle chassis. A Mercedes chassis is VERY...VERY..expensive. And that's BEFORE any camping accessories are added. The RAM Promaster is significantly less. The features on all these vans are similar but you'll be paying most of your money for the Mercedes chassis.
I still think the Leisure Travel Vans are the best designed Class B’s on the market. There is just no comparison. The Murphy Bed with a slide out is the way to go and they have a separate shower so you don’t have to deal with a wet bath. The design options are very cool and I like there modern design materials the best. The new Airstream Van comes in a close second. I don’t see how the last manufacturer can charge $173,000 for that van. What are they thinking.
LTV quit making Class Bs years ago. They only make Class C's now. They'll call them B+, but that's just a ficticious category the marketing folks came up with to entice the gullible.
That Corrado looks rough, you can see why it's the cheapest. Nice to get an American perspective on what us Brits would call a van conversion. In terms of our PVs the Adria are nice, even have one in interesting orange...,
We purchased a Coachmen Crossfit back in Sept. Four shop repairs for sloppy work and a total down time of over 14 weeks for the fixes it really doesn't pay to purchase new. We figured since we were up there in age and this would be the last purchase for an RV we would get new. Buyer remorse sure rings true for this!! The ONLY thing I did right was get a gas engine. The diesel really doesn't pay for itself!
For that price and only getting 475W of solar power? I throw in 50k to buy the cargo version of the sprinter and 20k upgrade, I can get a much better spec. These markups are way too high.
90k difference...wow...not impressed by neither..but if I had to make a choice...the cheaper van is my choice..put 10-20k in improvements and you'll be all set..
The cheapest is sixty grand....the build looks nice but not worth the money. You could build this yourself, best part about doing that is getting to choose quality insulation that a lot of RV companies skimp out on.
IF you have the time, skills, and desire. I think Hymer did a nice job with the Banff at that price point (it's a Hymer-owned company) and I'm glad to see them brining some of their more affordable option to the states. No way that Roadtrek is worth that much more.
I like the banff floorplan, but the cushions are a bit cheap. I prefer what they have going on in the travato. I really don't like the roadtreks. They are very expensive and don't use the floor space well at all.
Why would anyone in their right mind spend 150,000.00 on a class B van???? That just don't makes since to me, Also from what I understand the warranties aren't the greatest ether.... For that price you'd think you'd get a 100,000 mile full warranty...
What they don't tell you is that there are much better values from Winnebago and Coachmen at that show. RV's that actually have quality built into them and systems that work as advertised.
1st: they get you around at 25 mpg, 2nd: they work as a second car as they are short wheelbased 3rd: you're now paying for all the newer tech these RV's offer...such as solar panels, LED lighting, satellite TV and internet, better heating and cooling...learn before you complain
If you only use it for recreation once in a while, sure, get the cheapest one or second hand. But if you use it for living full time, you may want to pick a new one and the best quality you can afford.
That's worrying where the engine starts automatically, do you need to have the key in the ignition for it to do it? Someone could easily steal it, just drain the battery power and away you go!
I suppose the Class B is easier to drive, better fuel economy and can be driven through areas like national parks larger RV's are restricted. I believe I would select a 25 ft or so Class A.
I don't care for the dark wood throughout, makes them look smaller than what these vans are. White or with a warm, golden oak cabinentry , combined with a cream, colored furniture, that would look so pretty~! I'm into warm colors. I noticed a lot of these Class B vans are low to the ground. Not much ground clearance, between the van and the road...
Like your videos and you guys of course. But I was disappointed in this video did not get to see many units I thought you were going to go through a lot of them or at least a dozen.
