Leaving the Kingston Clan - Eskel's Story - Part 1 

The "Consent" thing is mybissue with it all. If you are threatened with being separated from your family forever....that's blackmail, not consent.

Chuckling as I listen to Eskel. Appreciate his sacarstic/ humorous comments about the Order.

THE INTERVIEW IS AMAZING 👏 🙌 😍 Thank you Sam,Melissa and Eskel!! Sending love,light and happiness 🌻💛

It is amazing how well adjusted and funny these guys are despite being raised in insanity!

So happy to see y’all talk with people who have left the different groups. Their perspective is great and adds to our understanding. Thanks so much for sharing ❤️

Good content, thanks for helping Eskel with the redirect to his channel. You two regularly demonstrate true kindness in quiet ways.

Eskel!!! Love that guy. So happy yall have him on. 🥰

I love that even though I’ve followed you guys, Eskel, and Amanda for so long, I still learn something new every video! Great interview, keep ‘em coming! You guys should talk to more people from the Kingstons!

What a wonderful young man who deserves to be blessed with a beautiful life now

Eskel is such an amazing person! I love that he’s able to tell his story so candidly & still remains so humble & so genuine. He’s such a joy to interview!

People don't believe me when I say I lived in an FDLS community, and what it was like, thanks for speaking the truth

Yay I love Eskel! Love seeing Amanda and him on your channel in the same week. Keep up the great content, so happy for your guys growth and ability to spread a kind and powerful message ❤️

I loved the comparison of numbered men to 2nd anointing! I totally see the similarities! Also the bank system at the Order is super interesting! I always wanted to understand how it was never investigated for bad banking practices or used to prove RICO charges...

Great guest guys! I applaud all of you for having the courage to get out when you did.. thanks for sharing your stories... they're very insightful.

Loving how many videos you guys are putting out!

I have to keep telling myself that these people know no different, but the leaders absolutely know they are full of crap

such a level headed young man! so bright and intelligent. loved this interview. all the best...

Love that y’all are discussing this openly.

Do you guys ever look up “ houses for sale in hildale ut “ or Colorado city AZ? I do it all the time just because there are giant interesting houses. There is a house listed as built in 1994, I wonder if Sam helped put it together 🧐

I’ve been waiting to see more interviews with other ex polygamist men and women after seeing your interview with your sister Sam and the interviews you both have done with Amanda. You guys are very good at what your doing here on YOUTube. Love ❤️ seeing it keep ‘‘em coming. I enjoy for the most part hearing the different life styles that your guest have and the life changes that happen once you change perspectives as to what your faith once was.

Beard looks good on you Sam!

Hiiii I’m so happy you had Eskel on!!!! ❤️

I admire Eskel for his courage through adversity and yet he smiles a lot.

1&2 going up at the same time I was like woooah. Glad I found this one first 💕 We love Eskel and his sisters and cousins ❤️❤️❤️ Eskel said him and Sam are so similar, I’m excited to watch!

Eskel is sooo good at explaining things. I know it is from his perspective & some things are guesses but, well spoken & good at his trend of thought. I'll have to check out his posts.

So happy that I have direct access to Jesus through prayer. And not having to go through all those steps!

I worked as a pediatrician in West Valley City for 13 months during my husband’s fellowship training. We kept whole family charts, making seeing 2-3 siblings together easy with a single partitioned chart. The Order families had huge charts (dozens of kids) and dressed a bit different, but were otherwise the same as the rest.

Never clicked on a video so fast!

I can tell he is Amanda’s brother. The way they talk is so similar. So cute.☺️

So cool! We ❤️ Eskel. He got so much out of this time with y'all, based on what he shared on his live last Sunday. Also, I grew up Catholic (Gosh, can we have a Catholic woman on a panel sometime?? I found there is a LOT of shaming regarding virginity/not living with your partner until marriage as a young adult). We don't 'blame' any other faiths that I'm aware of, but Catholic people (as all of you do), believe we are the #1 true church of all churches.

I find learning about these religions so fascinating, also the LDS. I haven't seen anything close to it in Spain (maybe the Opus Dei). I was raised catholic, although I am not religious, and I found it soooo much simpler. Maybe if you get deep enough you start to see also all those random rules and hierarchies. But from a normal member it felt like "come to church and don't kill anybody and you are good to go" 😅

Hierarchy of the Order: 1. Paul Kingston 2. The Seven Brothers/Order Board 3. Numbered Men 4. Married, Unmarried Men 5. Women and Children Description: The Kingston group is structured in a numerical manner. Paul Elden Kingston has the lowest number assigned (number 9). All the numbered men with a number lower than Paul Elden Kingston have died. John Ortell Kingston’s seven sons are all numbered in the order, and listed in order: Paul Elden Kingston, assigned number 9; Joseph Ortell Kingston, (deceased) assigned number 14; John Daniel Kingston, Sr., assigned 15; Hyrum Dalton Kingston, assigned 25; David Ortell Kingston, assigned number 33; Jesse Orvil Kingston, assigned number 49; (they are known as the “Seven Kingston brothers”). The seven Kingston brothers are considered royal in the Order and have authority over members of the Order and the Kingston Church. Within the Seven Kingston Brothers there is a hierarchy in which all of the living brothers report to “The Man in the Watch Tower”, Paul Elden Kingston. Paul Elden Kingston and his brother drew on their combined power and authority to govern members and administer Order business and affairs. In addition to the seven Kingston brothers, there are about sixteen other numbered men that serve on the Order Board. Members are expected to follow “The Law of One Above Another” which requires Order members to obey any instructions given to them by the male individual that is “above them,” even if they are instructed to do something immoral, wrong, or illegal. The belief is that by obeying and following The Law of One Above Another you are being obedient to God and will not be punished for any actions you have need instructed to take, instead the individual ordering the action will be punished, if necessary, in the eyes of God. A husband is the “One Above” all his wives and all their unwed children. When a girl or woman is married, her “One Above” changes from her father to her husband. Numbered Men in the Order report to the One Above which is typically Paul Elden Kingston, one of the Seven Kingston Brothers, or to a man on the Order Board. Most of the Order is located in West Jordan in Utah. They have a huge plot of land on Parkway Blvd that houses most of their businesses, warehouses and meeting house. It looks pretty nondescript and only those that know about the Order would suspect that it’s their headquarters.

Another great interview! I'm really enjoying these longer videos.

The idea of someone (other than govt) demanding my money when I don’t have to pay it is so foreign to me.

What a great interview!

I dont want to offend anyone but this is craaaaaaaazyyyyyy.... Good for Ezkiel he got out.

Thank you for another insightful video. You both do an amazing job

Found your channel through Amanda and Eskel. I love listening to you both. You do a great job interviewing people.

These videos are great!

Wonderful 😊 Can't wait for O2 👊😉

love this interivew, cant wait for pt 2 on eskels channel!

Yeah Catholics don’t view any of the other Churches as a Church of the devil. They want everyone to be apart of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church views the Protestant Churches as temporarily departed brethren, who’s members will be reunited with them in heaven. The idea of a man having multiple wives is very unnerving to me, it is in my view adulterous.

Loved this colab! Eskel & Amanda are great! Also caught yous (Sam & Melissa) on Mormon Stories! Congrats on that big colab! Now we need a guys panel and of course more girls panels, lol! Maybe get Sam's sister for a 2nd FLDS perspective since Joanna is so young. Sam's sister would know more going back further. ❤❤❤❤❤

Love when you guys docolabs with other ex fundamentalists ♥️♥️

Sam’s minion cup lol 💖 I love learning about other people, so I enjoy these videos about other religions and how people grew up.

Ahhh! I’ve been wondering how eskel has been doing! Also, Sam your hair cut looks lovely!

Great content. Really good interview.

Oh man what a great interview! Eskel - wow cool Name! Never heard it before but it’s so unique and cool. Thanks for spreading the word and shining a light on the lies and manipulation of such a restrictive cult like religion.

Have been looking forward for this i started with part 2 for 10 minutes tho then realised

This is at least your second video where everyone is wearing blue. The matching plus polos were the best! I am more amused than I should be. Edit: ok so a ton of your videos... you guys love blue!

I have been following Amanda on youtube for a bit now. And have seen you guys on Mormon Stories Podcast.. this is all so fascinating! I am in no way religious in any way, only grew up Catholic. So alot of this is just so wild to me.. it blows my mind hearing all these stories and experiences! Biggest red flag so far, the church took all your money!? $5000 to join in!? Wow

It's so weird to hear about the Kingston Group that everyone is so strung along and manipulated . It's sad they starve their members to make money.

Thanks for a great listen! I also appreciate the explanations and background info you guys give for people who don’t have the religious background knowledge!

i remember thinking when eskel left, he had a car and a job, i watched his sister cami's story she left with no car and only 300 dollars, it seems so scary and stressful

Yay Eskel!! ❤❤

Great episode!

Just discovered your channel. Very informative, thank you!

The Kingston believe they have the highest priesthood on earth and it's a secret sacred priesthood. Higher than the Melchizedek priesthood. At least that's what I remember, I used to be married to a Kingston.

I love Eskel's sense of the ridiculous. It is so sane and so honest. It made me sad when I listened to later videos and I heard the pain, guilt, confusion in the voices of others, even defending illogical ideas they claim to no longer endorse. Because that ambivalence regarding reality/basic common sense vs.what one's been taught (indoctrinated to believe) leaves the door open to manipulation and control. Eskel clearly recognizes and responds to what his own senses recognize. "I forgot I'm not supposed to like black people" because when faced with a likeable black person it doesn't make since. His heart and honest and sane rational logic are his salvation. Not following an infinite number of random irrational rules. As though living the lies we tell you to believe is what God wants of you, as though that is serving God. The incredible soul suffering from the twisted thinking and appalling abuse of people, children with no support for having a mind/conscience of their own is so heartbreaking especially given such profound desire to be a good person and please God.

This is my favorite podcast right now. Don’t stop.

Do you think you could get someone from the AUB group. I would love to hear from Jesse and his two wives that were on escaping polygamy

I live in Pennsylvania and I am DYINGGG to know about the order members in my state

Great video, very informative.

I always look forward to your videos posting! The similarities are so interesting!

Thank you for sharing your story. Always so fascinating to learn about what it was like growing up within other fundamentalist groups that connect to J.Smith and mormonism. Sad to hear how public money is being misused by Kingston group and also FLDS. Iam sure there are not the only ones:(

I think it would be super interesting to hear you guys on the A Little Bit Culty podcast/having the hosts on your channel. They're from a way different type of cult but you guys are saying things I've heard them saying, especially about members who leave (nothing religious, but the sentiment about how ex members lives must be terrible). It really is fascinating how these patterns are always the same. This was great!

I know this is a bit personal but I would love to know what you guys believe now if you felt like sharing. I appreciate all you are doing to make people aware and hopefully helping those who want to leave get information so that they can make the best decisions for themselves. I really enjoyed the woman's panel you did and this is interesting to hear from the men's point of view.

Can you do a video all about mother Mildred? What was your father and her relationship like? What was her dynamic within the family, what are the funny things she would do etc.

I think a good word would be conditioned. They've been conditioned to believe that polygamy is the only way.

I'm enjoying your channel: I just found it yesterday! I've watched about 1/2 of this video so far, but wanted to make this comment now so I wouldn't forget! When Eskel was telling about school lunch money being diverted for the Centennial cult's use and how it is openly talked about, you said something that they're going to get caught if they don't keep it quieter. Well, yeah! And isn't that good?

When you speak of legalizing polygamy I think of so many men and women across the US and world who never marry and have multiple baby mammas and baby daddys.

Very interesting. When Eskel was talking about the Temple Square temple and his father saying it was really theirs that reminded me of here in the UK where we Catholics did own almost all of our very old 1000 year old etc churches but Henry VIII when he broke from the Catholic church stole them all and we have never had them back and had to build new ones. As for who is "above" catholics in theory " And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it". However there would certainly have been a time between Christ and the formation of the Catholic church so if any of this is true at all I am sure the Catholicism of our family has no more claim to the truth than anyone. (1.3billion Catholics of about 7 bn people on the planet, 2.38 billion Christians (debatable if most Christians regard LDS as Christian I suppose so not sure if included in that) and 2 billion muslims (second largest religion). LDS about 16m. FLDS and Kingstons may be at most 10,000 each. Mind you hear in England more people don't believe in God now than do which is a sea change in my own lifetime and I am probably now in that category.

Uhhhh... As someone who works in public education, I can tell you that messing with school funding $$$ will not last long.

Wow, Sam! Loving your growing beard!

Racism is taught or experianced; than learned.

Ok-Eskel sounds like he's a riot.

One correction I noticed is Eskel said Brother Ortell was the first prophet of the Kingston group, but it was actually his older brother Elden.

I found your channel a while back and have slowly watched so many of your videos. I have been a Christian for so long and so many of the rules and terms you guys use I have never heard. The amount of rules that must be followed in all 3 are somewhat astounding and the celestial kingdom I believe is a different interpretation of Heaven than main stream Christians believe. We believe there is only one God and you will never become a God but the goal of Christianity is to live your life like Christ via his principles and you are saved by grace and love the Father has for you which is why he sent his son Jesus to die for us and tear the vail back between us and heaven. In the new testament I no longer need a person to talk to God but I instead build a relationship with God who is my heavenly Father and when I pass, no strings attached to my works I will live in eternal paradise with him. I can get revelation from either someone or directly from God to myself. Sorry and lastly that we are taught to be a light on a hill and being in the world but not of the world. We are taught Jesus ate with sinners, talked with sinners and through his acceptance and non judgment if them he was able to change their heart. We believe God to be a gentlemen never forceful but by the works of love whether it be to other man kind, family etc that is your testimony that is your message. Either way I love to learn because the Bible also teaches that my people perish from a lack of knowledge and to reach someone you have to understand them. You all be blessed and I will pray for you along your journey through discovering whatever it is God wants to impart into your lives.

$5000? What!! Run people run!!

I love Eskel. He’s the best

After this video I am extremely curious about garments in the Kingston Group. Can you illuminate me?

If you limit a girl's or boy's education and teach them from birth that they will go to hell if they leave the church and don't live the polygamist lifestyle, that is coercion. Also, they teach that people outside the church are dangerous or bad or will cause you harm. There is a lot of fear involved and that fear is not based in reality.

23:00 The description of the priesthood quorums is slightly wrong, in the sense that making the levels a youth program is a modern invention. In the early church in Kirtland, you had the four quorums, each consisting of adult men. It was more about different roles in the church, some more temporal, some more leadership roles, than about educating boys and introducing them to the church hierarchy early on. Similarly, the original concept of a bishop was much more about organizing and allotting land in Independence and funneling funds from Kirtland to Independence rather than managing a ward. In that sense, Sam's and Eskel's description of real hierarchies within the priesthood are closer to the original than the current LDS structure of a youth program.

If there was a fee, I would not join. I'm not even sure how much aware I was of tithing in the LDS mainstream church. I wasn't making that much, just my part time jobs.

The whole polygamy vs mistresses thing is exactly the excuse that Winston Blackmore (Canadian who was kicked out by Rulan Jeffs and started his own offshoot polygamy group) used when someone interviewed him about his multiple wives. Honestly i dont disagree with that arguement either. Not saying i necessarily agree with polygamy but also polyamorous couples are becoming more and more common. It's definitely not as black and white as many would think it is.

The thing you called second anointing, is it the same as “calling and election made true”?

40:50 Thank You Sam for putting that on the record. We don't roll like that. We play nice with others. (Well for the most part. But I'm not here to go into a giant history lesson nor an examination of the catechism). For the most part, we're just like y'all do your thing we'll do our thing (in present times anyways).

As a nevermo, a what priesthood? Uronic? Ironic? Eronic? Aaronic (as in Moses' brother)? I feel like there are so many terms y'all use I can't quite understand. Like "bishop-rig(?) or bishop-ric(?)" etc

Like the Mormon Stories guy keeps saying, you have bigger commitment if you make them pay because they just paid all this money, they wouldn't leave unless it got really bad.

53:00 I have to disagree. [cult] Women marry because they believe their soul depends on it. When they have children that believe they could take their salvation if they leave. They are under cohersion, spiritual manipulation. People in ethical polyamory choose partners for who they are and what they can fulfill in other's lives. It isn't just a man and mistresses, although there are certainly those. Ethical Polyamory has unique dynamics and boundaries which hold each other accountable, and if it doesn't work out there isn't an eternal consequence. Edit: clarify why/who some marry

One of the factors in underage marriage is children. It's harder to leave and take them with you, especially with a limited education. To make matters worse, mother's are sometimes separated from their children and just hope to be "good enough " to see them on occasion.

Did he say child support? That will NEVER HAPPEN! Young and idealistic, bless him…

I cannot imagine my mother needing to compete with ANY other woman for my father’s attention! It would have been hell. « Numbered men. ». It sounds like the Mob to me. I have concern about the safety of young boys during construction work. It seems to me very much like work for full grown (or very nearly-full grown) people.

Ortell Kingston was not the first leader of the Kingston group. Elden Kingston was. It was Elden Kingston (Ortell’s brother) who went to leaders of the Mormon church and wanted to live the law of consecration. He was told that the Mormon Church wasn’t doing that anymore, but if the Mormon Church had 10 men like him they could start living the law of consecration tomorrow, but they didn’t even have one other man like him. So Elden started the Kingston group. It was 1935 when they first started working together. They lived in tents and wore denim coveralls and the women wore denim dresses. Then in 1942 Elden Kingston (their prophet) had a revelation, which he called the law of satisfaction, which the members were required to live. This meant that they were supposed to treat the one above them like the highest god in heaven. Wives were required to treat their husbands like the highest god in heaven. Employees were to treat their employers in the same way. Children were supposed to treat their parents in the same way. Some families even went the extent of believing that the one above was never supposed to apologize for anything they ever did. The one below was not supposed to ever criticize or point out any mistakes of the one above them.

I think the conversation about polygamy is so interesting because I know some non-religous folks who have been in healthy, consensual polyamorous relationships for years. (Note: idk what the difference between polygamy and polyamory are, but from my understanding, they are basically the same with different names? Maybe one is multiple wives to a husband, and the other isn't as specific. Idk) I totally agree that it is often not the relationships themselves, but side effects of the relationships.

It's good to have the 'clan comparison '. From what I can tell, each sect is very much the same, yet very different. In many ways, this depends on the attitude the husband/father of the families that makes all the difference, yet can also be very dependent on the higher-ups 'running the show' of the sect. @Melissa- the Jehovah's Witnesses believe there are 144,000 who will go to heaven.

I was thinking about him while watching the Women Panel with Amanda cause I knew they are siblings. And I was wondering if he was still going to the LDS church

1:07:00 Lies about people leaving: it is quite common in the LDS church to make assumptions about why people left. "they wanted to sin.", "They got offended by a member." are the two goto reasons. And members are afraid to ask, because the answer might shake their own faith.

Can you talk about 2nd anointing? Maybe a whole video? Can women be 2nd anointed? Never heard of it…. And I am an active Latter Day Saint ♥️

At 12:30 into this I get an ad for Pro Dentim. This is not a "soft sweet candy mineral" that they send you. Essentially it is probiotics for the mouth. It is a small cube that looks like chalk and it tastes like chalk, very dry. I bought some, Just started a few days ago. I'm okay with the product and I will use it daily, but just wanted to tell you that the ad is not all that honest. But I suppose who would buy it if they said what it really looks like and tastes like.