Why does everyone forget about Dirk in these influential debates? I know people like Hakeem existed before, but Dirk opened the door for International Talent, and as a shooting big (WAY more than KAT)
I'm a Carmelo Anthony Stan n I never rooted for or against LeBron his whole career but I can admit he changed the game he made the game bigger n more global...he gave power to the players...he was the first to start actually shooting from the logo he started the play all positions he made it cool to be a professional n how u supposed to take the game seriously
???Bro what u on???? Michael Jordan made it global, curry made the logo cool, Lebron was definitely not the first to take a logo shot, Lebron made it cool to flop and bait refs, harden changed the game way more than Lebron ever could
@@jimmytaylor4102what shooting from the logo would be curry bro wtf 🤣🤣 and making the game popular was mj. He made it possible for people to get paid this much. He was the first to earn 30 mil
@@milagomez55 how was it curry when there vids of lebron in Cleveland shooting multiple shots from the logo n if Jordan made it global then u Jordan ain't got more followers on any social media then him n none of Jordan games had more views then lebron let's be real here with facts I understand u one of the ppl who hate on lebron cus yhal sceard of him being over Jordan
Lebron is one of the pioneers of positionless basketball in my opinion. As him being able to play 1 to 5 he influenced a lot of these all around wings, that can play 2-4 like Derozan, Ant or Banchero etc.
ever heard of scottie pippen? magic johnson. larry bird. positionless basketball players existed before lebron. can’t give him credit that belongs to someone else.
@@ssjganicus7696 That’s why I wrote one of the pioneers, these dudes were always there, but lebron really opened the door for these guys, as today you see a lot more of this player type, because the players are getting developed into this direction more often then back in the days.
@@ssjganicus7696neither magic nor Larry were positionless. Magic was close, but was not fully there. If they both had more athleticism then they would truly be able to go 1-5. Scottie, yes, but I would say even LeBrons less than spectacular post skills are better than Scottie. Scottie also didn’t control the game like a true pg
@@dwilliams380 I agree, Magic theoretically could play any position, but he had his flaws as a center/pf defensively. Same thing for Larry. Scottie was also no Steve Nash by any means.
What the Suns did is just what the 80's team like Showtime Lakers or 86 Celtics were doing just they were the only one playing in a Run n Gun style in the slowest era ever, teams like the ones I mentioned plus the Run TMC, 80's Small Ball Denver or the 93 Suns were already doing that
@@paquinraino8180 the only difference is that it was done with a smaller pg who did have the ability to shoot 3’s efficiently. also different since they did it with smaller centers that created the small ball. credited to Mike D’Antoni with Nash as the primary reason for why the game has changed the way it was played in the 2010s and then the curry & warriors changed it from there.
When I think about it, the most palpable way in which LeBron changed the NBA is probably how heliocentric offenses are run today. Lone star-run teams existed before, but guys like Harden, Russ, Luka, and Trae have since benefitted from the drive-and-kick model, all while sporting historic usage rates. They leverage their scoring to augment their passing, and vice versa. Dwight Howard also played in a somewhat philosophically similar offense, where they essentially let him dominate the paint and surrounded him with shooting. Funny enough, one could argue that LeBron's 2003 draft classmate, Dwyane Wade, has the best overall comparison to LeBron, on offense and defense, in terms of his role as a solo star after Shaq went to Phoenix-the 2009 MVP race was essentially the battle of carry jobs between the two, and of all the players who have starred in such an offense, I wouldn't be surprised if no one had more similar all-around stats to a prime LeBron than Wade that season. Their comparable playstyles allowed the Heatles to run identical lineups with one of the two on the bench and ironically limited the offense's efficiency when they were both on the court because neither was great at catch-and-shoot jumpers. Less about the Xs and Os of the game, LeBron also completely changed our expectations of singular players to carry their teams like he did in his first stint in Cleveland.
I greed at 1st, but I change my mind, cause Dantoni's usage of James harden was based on his Phoenix tenure, not on Lebron at all. Once the Rockets finally saw some playoff success (however you want to view it), teams with elite ball handlers used the model. Trae Youngs Hawks are a complete carbon copy. But when you think about how those offenses are so reliant on a lob threat, even more than their 3 point shooters, I dont see Lebron's influence on those teams. Instead of the stretch 4, they always had the lob threat - even on Luka teams with Powell. But i do get the last statement
Leastern Conference folklore, where he stole 2 all stars from the same playoff teams in conference and "beat" the remaining teams. Lost 4 titles at 2-16
@@topcatmatt I mean it’s already been proven million of times before harden just has tremendously good footwork and it’s not a travel in the NBA. Also they definitely needed a new rule before u could lean into defenders to create contact and draw fouls as well as harden use to intentionally hook arms with a defender to draw them as well
They didn't "have to" Refs shoulda just never gave in to foul-seeking behavior, there's tons of ways to call it- unsportsmanlike, simulation, so on, u guys r trippin It's just in *this era* these mfers get whatever they want. I saw refs CONSOLE LEBRON when he's frustrated. It's sad the shit we have to put up with as 40 yo fans bc kids genuinely cannot parse data and context.
@matthewbowers81 damn g I'm just calling it as I see it. The reffing was terrible and let him get away with a lot but nonetheless it resulted in rule changes
Saying Curry didn’t change the game just doesn’t make sense. Before the Warriors won in 2015 the narrative was jump shooting teams cant win championship. They win and now we have the 3 point revolution and Curry was the best player on that team everyone tried to copy. Gil has his funny takes where he makes a good point but he has some really bad ones too. Just my opinion tho
@@Nick_MyName around the middle of the video before gil started saying Lebron didn’t change the game he was saying curry didn’t either, and “it was the 3 point revolution changed the game”
@@ItsHughMungus yeah but saying the 3 point revolution is the same as saying “teams are trying to copy what the warriors are doing” and steph is the head of the team. Same thing as harden being the face of iso ball except its curry for 3’s
@@Nick_MyName yea thats what I’m saying. I don’t really get the Harden comparison since I don’t think there have been any teams that started going to more iso plays because of Harden, while 2016 and on you pretty much see 3 point attempts double across the league
too much ambiguity in “changed the game” Steph curry. allen iverson. shaq. changed how the game is played. lebron changed the NBA. he made it a player first league. if that’s a good or a bad thing is up to you.
That’s a wonderful thing I was tired of teams holding down players like they’re slaves and only trading them away when they have no use for them y’all forget how evil nba front offices can be at times bron reminded guys to put themselves first
It’s a good/bad thing when there are players like dame (thank god he’s leaving) that would feel obligated to stay and then there’s people like Ben Simmons, Harden in 2021, or (sadly to say) Kawhi in 2018 that just hold the franchise hostage and force them to do something
@@SiyabongaMokoena-nh8fp I pity your understanding of slavery if you think players making more in a year than you'll make in your life are being mistreated for being asked to fulfill their contract.
Not really if we exclude athletism from versatility then there's Jokic, Luka, Benny boy (if he can just grow some balls nd shoot) nd hopefully in the future Vic
LeBron changed the NBA in terms of mobility and not chaining yourself to an organization, whether that's for better or for worse. LeBron didn't change basketball as a sport. He was exceptional at doing what was already tried and true in the league. LeBron was basically a fusion of Dominique and Magic, two players that have already had their impact on the game, so he wasn't revolutionizing anything. Scottie Pippen was already a dominant point forward and LeBron was even more so but LeBron still didn't change things. Curry has had a much bigger impact on basketball than LeBron with the 3 point revolution. MJ was the first to shift the NBA in the direction of super athletic guards because the game was largely dominated by forwards and centers up to that point.
@@CaptainBuggyDClown so you're saying LeBron wasn't the driver for higher tier players hopping teams with much higher frequency than ever before? Why not?
@@defiantlydefiant it’s happened since the 50s. It was actually way more common. Jerry west Elgin Baylor and Wilt were all on the same team once and still lost
@bigolealmond Neither of whom were a big. A guard was still the focal point of their offense, which was virtually unheard of prior. MJ's freakish amount of athleticism raised the bar for athleticism in general in the NBA much like Curry's shooting ability raised the bar for everyone else to become better shooters.
@CaptainBuggyDClown Where did I say anything about LeBron running around forming super teams? I didn't. Prior to LeBron leaving Cleveland, the vast majority of NBA stars stayed put on a single team as long as possible in an attempt to win a ring for that team. It was rare for someone to jump ship to chase a ring. Now, stars move all over the place because putting player self-interest over team loyalty has been destigmatized. The 08 Celtics put a super team together of three players who were nearing the end of their primes, so it didn't have the same impact as a 26 year old LeBron heading to the heat.
I won't say LeBron isn't special. But I can sorta agree that he didn't change the NBA. LeBron survived the NBA. He could've faded away into obscurity after the Miami run but instead adapted. He played in the Era of mid range and the back to basket. Dominated individually. Then here comes the deep 3 Era. And survived that too. While still dominating individually. Shaq changed the NBA sure. Steph retconned the 3 into a legitimate weapon. But only LeBron has LeBroned the way he has. LeBron didn't change the league, he has simply embodied what it meant to be a NBA player. This is coming from a Kawhi fan BTW. I can respect greatness when I see it
This is a terrible take. After the Miami run he was a 2x FMVP and 4x MVP. Faded into obscurity? In his first run in Cleveland, the debate for best player in the world was between him and Kobe. He was already considered a top 10 all time player, and many already, believe it or not, considered him the GOAT. He changed the game on and off the court. There were no 6’6+ primary scoring options dishing out dimes and taking the ball down court before LeBron. His biggest contribution would have to be player empowerment after his move to Miami. Many people credit Lebron for creating this super team era, how is that not changing the game?
@@jking6053 bro stop the cap wtf his first run in Cleveland he missed the playoffs twice and got swept in the finals. NOBODY had lebron top 10 all time before Miami hell even after his first ring. It wasn't until the repeat where people thought he could make a run and challenge mike one day like be fr. If u meant the 2nd stint in Cleveland that's a different story but nobody said lebron is top 10 all time after his first 7 not even nick wright
@@jking6053 and you said no 6'6 primary scoring options taking the ball down the court dishing? Jordan, grant hill, Larry bird, pippen hell even tmac at the same time was doing it
Never more fitting the; "you're not that guy bro, trust me you're not that guy", KAT be tripping, he can say he's the first center to win the 3 pt contest and I don't really know, we might have to research that just to be sure
LeBron definitely didn't change the "game" at all if we're gonna be real. He set a blue print for how to be a professional and make money in the nba. He didn't change how the game is played at all though.
@@Flameville magic Johnson, Larry bird, scottie pippen. The game is not played any differently because of LeBron. He can be a great player without changing the game.
@@HiImRawr larry and scottie shouldnt really be mention they cant play point gaurd and majic cant play center even at there best lebron on the other hand at his best well...
Ima have to disagree with sage on how he explains why kobe could qualify for changing the game. Him being a continuation of Jordan and proving that style can work doesn’t mean it changed the game it just means it was the second to the first(the first being the changer). It’d be like a carbon copy version of Steph being around 85-90% the player Steph is and then saying that hypothetical player changed the game.
Lebron is an influential player just as Kobe was, he showing that players can be in the nba for longer then players of the past but other then that he hasn’t changed the game. Imo
I think Lebron paved the way for positionless basketball tbh. Sure Magic Johnson did it but no one really followed him on that front, they just thought he was a once in a lifetime. But I think Lebron really set the tone that if you have the skill you can play at any part on the court. Like seeing Jokic take the hall up the court and shit and really play PG, I don’t think that would exist without Lebron
1960s - Bill changed defense, Wilt changed rules 1970s - Dr. J made dunks 🔥 forever 1980s - Bird made playmaking elite 1990s - MJ made score first champions 2000s - AI and Nash made guards more flashy, popular and better. Dirk invented the stretch 4. 2010s - Curry changed the game forever. Bron made versatility the most valuable.
How did he change anything if bron is the only player to still be hooping at 20 name another player doing that or name another player u think is even close
Kareem coulda changed the game but no one was doing hook shots same as lebron no one is putting up 25 at 36 lebron body comes straight from god blessing u don’t wake up and say imma avg 30 at 38 ur body will give up
@@Maloman05 we’ve seen a Magic type player before, his name was Oscar Robertson, even if Magic did it better, it wasn’t anything new, just glamor and more better
I Like how everyone immediatlely goes to shotmaking, but Lebron was in his prime a game-changing playmaker , showig that your best player can pass the ball. Jokic mirrors Bron in that aspect
Only few players changed the game and that was due to their dominance and in something but most players even the greatest dont change the game they just influence it and LeBron has a big influence on the nba like every other star player. That being said KAT has never influenced or changed a damn thing
LeBron changed Free Agency if that counts. Positionless all around non-triple single players existed already before he was even born. There are also coaches who changed the game just so you know.
The heliocentric offense as we know it now was developed for lebron james. Could be argued it was Orlando with Dwight first but the idea of sorounding your best player with shooters and then letting them cook is in large part due to lebron.
I think Kobe did impact the game from the sense of 3Pt hunting. He didn’t do it to the degree of Curry & such ofc but him, Tracy & KD started that 3Pt line shot creation era. Like Kobe’s 12 3s game on Jan 7th, 2003. It’s also why people say Kobe was a better 3Pt shooter than Jordan, he just happened to take a lot for a ball dominant guard
as far as on the floor the only way james changed the league is the widespread flopping and whatever rules eventually come out to deal with flopping.... other than that, there is nothing he does on the court, game wise, that requires adjustments from the league or from any strategic standpoint
Yet he did. Like it or not. Harden changed the rule in his favor. Most seen it as a travel but that step back definitely impacted basketball nba down to aau levels. & the flopping. They also adjusted to harden driving getting those foul calls. He use to get them but not as much.
Wanted to add, ngl but the way ppl have been looking at new top prospects every year, "He is the new Lebron type" type of stuff...the Ben Simmons, the Wembys, the Zions of the world..... Essentially that "Lebron standard" of off the bat rookie greatness that organizations fish for (either by trading picks or blatantly tanking) I'd argue it heavily impacted the game in the past decade
Bron helped push heliocentric offenses, luka, prime russ, harden, dame sometimes, all are influenced by Bron in being a primary scorer and passer. Jokic i would argue takes influence from bron in being a primary scorer and passer as well.
Without watching the video, based on the title, I kind of agree with him on this one. Changed? I understand the “a player that can do everything for your team” thing, but I feel like we already saw that in both Bird and MJ. And before them, Wilt. So CHANGED? Idk about that. Influenced? Absolutely
I think lebron was one of the people who pushed positionless basketball 6 9 260 able to do the things he does I truly believe bron made a path for guys like giannis paolo franz KD etc
Bron didn’t really change the game per say. 99% of players can’t replicate his play style, in the since of big guards he wasn’t the first. But his understanding of the game every player can replicate. He evolved being an on the court coach more than anything else imo.
But you could make that argument with anyone that does something at an elite level. Like saying Steph didn't change the game because 99% of players can't replicate being a small guard who can hit 30 footers at 40% or better. And he wasn't the first to do that either. Like there is more to being able to change the way the game is players outside of, are other players going to be able to do the things I just did. Because Shaq definitely changed the game and we don't see a ton of 7 foot behemoths bullying inside the paint right now.
@@deanteb92 I think Steph is a bad example, literally all of America is shooting deep 3s almost exclusively because of Steph. His play style actually did change the game forever. Brons play style didn’t because nobody else is 6’8 with a 44 vert and runs a 4.5 in his prime.
@@romeda5156 but you didn't really describe his play style. You described his physical make up. But Bron's play style has been defined as the definition of an all around talent. Physical player who controls the ball, playmakers for his team but can also score at all 3 levels. Rebounds and defends. And that literally changed how current NBA superstars are judged. If you're the superstar on your team and not that all around talent you're picked at for whatever flaw you may have. Look at how people talk about jokic or PG or Giannis.
The James harden disrespect is crazy. He abused the foul rules so bad to get to the free throw line that the nba had to change the rules to not make defenders useless
There are 3 types of rule changers: Rules, Style, Culture Rules Ex: Charles Barkley forcing 5 sec back to basket Style Ex: Curry shot creation from 3 Culture Ex: Fab 5 wearing Black socks
The thing to me is nobody put the same effort that kobe made, he could’ve changed the game in the way ppl studied it. But because the next generation is mainly talent based, I think he didn’t end up changing anything.
The game changers: George mikan Bill Russell Bob Pettit Oscar Robertson Jerry west Elgin Baylor Wilt Bob mcadoo Dr J Moses malone Pete Maravich Magic Bird Jordan Dirk Kg Tmac/kd Iverson Shaq Bron Curry Jokic I’ll also add the coaches who impacted the evolution of the game that used specific players as their catalyst: red aerbach using Russell and cousy to create the fastbreak offense, and defense to offense scheme. The small ball lineups and increase in outside shooting of don Nelson dating all the way back to the 90s. Phil jackson and Tex with the triangle. And mike d Antonio’s high volume high efficiency lineups with Nash/harden
So the all time leading scorer in nba history who’s a pass first guy didn’t change the game?!?! A MF who’s 6’9 250, who can play bully ball, can play at every position 1-5, also runs the floor and passes like a point guard didn’t change the game?!?! You lames reach new lows everyday to go out y’all way to try and discredit lbj smh 😂🤡
My nigga did you really just say that Kobe popularized the post game for guards? That was literally Michael Jordan's unstoppable shot in the 2nd half of his career. There's nothing wrong with not having changed the game. He's still one of the Greats
First of all, Dirk and Kevin Love definitely deserve more credit for their influence and impact on the way big men in general play the game. Secondly, every great player has impacted or influenced the game to some degree in different ways, and LeBron is unquestionably one of those players. Thirdly, KAT was not that far off. For CENTERS specifically, I can't think of too many that were consistently efficient, high-volume 3-pt shooters like him.
These NBA players literally don’t know what they are talking about 75% of the time. A majority of players post the 70s haven’t changed the game, everything we see in the NBA has been done before the ABA merger.
I think lebrons biggest impact was definitely the heliocentric one superstar style with one player who scores and passes at an elite level, which dantoni and harden built upon
Depends what we mean “by changing the game,” which is one of the issues when debating hoops, these very ambiguous terminology and jargon. If by influencing and changing how other players play, I don’t think we’ll see that for a minute. When you look at these future draft classes and prospects, it’s a lot of 6’7-6’9 guards/wings who can affect the game in multiple facets who most likely base their game off Bron. I will definitely say Bron is the trailblazer of the player empowerment movement and players having tighter control of their career and future. But in terms of affecting how the game of basketball is played, I don’t think he’s affected much (possibly yet) and that’s fine. There’s literally only a handful of players you can say majorly impacted how the game of basketball is played/the landscape of the NBA
kat is defiantly the third best pf/c in timberwolves history. he could pass k love but he ain't passing prime kg unless he somehow wins an mvp and win a chip for minnesota. players that changed the game. in my opinion magic bird jordan shaq kobe lebron curry. and i'd say we are seeing another change starting right now with jokic
I havent seen so many players use the gather step, stepback, sidestep, etc… jumpshots till after harden won mvp also he mad refs change what they call fouls. Kat hasnt exactly changed the game but he’s been a part of it…buuut if u wanna say (ACTUAL) bigs who could create their shots with handle…u could say him, boogie, keem im wit it
