LED dimly lit, or glowing, even when switched off demo 

Glad you found the video interesting. Water and electricity are not good bedfellows, so glad that is sorted.

It can be dangerous since the socket has electrical potential at all time.

Thank you for your comment. Please note this is an explanation and demonstration of a fault. This is not a how to or a recommendation video. When dealing with the mains it is best to consult with professionals. If you used the resistor of the value you stated at the power rating you suggested then you would very likely have a fire. A 1k Ohm at 240v RMS is would have to dissipate over 50 watts. Even if your voltage was 110V the power would still be over 10 watts. (this is an example how quickly you can get into trouble if you are unsure what you're doing) .I've a video ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-AQtUgdHBvXc.html which deals with some of the topics you have mentioned, but the leakage through a typical dimmer's trigger circuit is not covered in that video.

A very late reply but here is a technical explanation: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-AQtUgdHBvXc.html

The answer to the question is more complicated than you might first think. If we assume that the consumer's electricity meter ignores the reactive (capacitance of the wiring) component of the current then the answer will be: yes it does. By definition the fact that the LED is glowing indicates that it must be using power. The real question is, how much power? If you were using a tungsten filament, such as halogen bulbs, then the answer will be less power than you were using before you changed to the LED. This will be true irrespective of whether the LED is glowing or not. My personal guestimate is roughly 0.036 to 0.01 watts when and LED is glowing due to the issue described in the video [value obtained using this vague calculation (240^2*2*(22/7)*50*2*(10^-9))]. So my guestimate based on glowing for a whole year is roughly 1142 kilojoules of energy which equates to 0.31 kwh per year. Roughly £0.06 per year if you live in the UK. If you were to fix the problem by using a "shunt" then you are not necessarily curing the usage but more hiding the energy that causes the LED to glow. If your electricity meter does actually measure the reactive component of the current then a glowing LED is the least of your worries.

@@robertwilliams8032....."yes it does" isn't an answer to "is it"

Thanks for your feedback, did you read the whole answer by hitting the "Read more" link?

@@robertwilliams8032 That has answered EVERYTHING AND MORE, that I sought to this issue. Much gratitude

A very late reply but here is a technical explanation ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-AQtUgdHBvXc.html

Thanks for your comment. I do not have a link for this bulb and couldn't guarantee that it would even be the same bulb as I was so long ago when I bought it.

@@robertwilliams8032 Okay, but thank you for answering

Sadly, the only people who can confirm any risk, or lack there of, is the manufacturer of your bulb. The effect I show in my demonstration, happens regardless of the bulb inserted. It is only obvious with a susceptible bulb and that particular circuit configuration. In the case I demonstrate there is no risk other than annoyance that the light is still glowing. If your circuit is configured as a switched neutral there is an argument to say it is better as a switched live but that is something to discuss with your electrician who will be more conversant with your regulations. Also neons (in the switch housing) and incompatible dimmer/remote electronic switches can cause a similar problem as they still use a small amount of energy even when the circuit is switched off. As the LED uses so little it can still appear to be on when coupled with these devices. Please note the way we commonly wire lighting in the UK with a ceiling rose is nothing like wiring in the Americas and most of Europe. Although I believe there is nothing to stop a UK electrician wiring using the American configuration, it just isn't done. Look at the following videos to see that UK wiring techniques are quite simple and consistent in comparison. This is a video from a US show: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-R9OAjYViu9o.html The North American code has more unique considerations than the UK and this interesting but technical video, demonstrates these well. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-_no-E8ZOkfQ.html This head scratching video would be considered an insane "WTF was that!" installation in the UK: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-U3H6kzBfOgc.html This is the common domestic configuration installed in the UK which is easy to configure with one, or multi-way, switches: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-gOy486TUtHY.html

Thank you for your comment. My video is a demonstration of a problem rather than an instructional or "how to" video. I make no recommendations in the video, I just demonstrate an aberration. If you follow what I say you will note that I have had to incorrectly wire the fitting to show the aberration in switched neutral mode because it doesn't happen in switched live mode. It would not be normal to have the fitting hanging with exposed live wiring in a normal day to day configuration. I'm not suggesting people unscrew a ceiling rose, add random pieces of wire, with exposed conductors, just so they can have it in a switched neutral configuration. I am unsure how people have managed to misconstrue this demonstration as advice of wiring a light fitting as switched neutral. Totally perplexing! I believe the latest code in the NEC does actually stipulate that "non Grounded conductors" are only to be switched in three or four way installations. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-_no-E8ZOkfQ.html I do not have a copy of the current UK regulations but best practise has always been to use switch live. Though I do not believe it has been a "requirement" until the most recent regulations but it's stated that testing should confirm that it's the live conductor that is switched. Neutral definitely "can" be switched in the case of dual pole switching. Dual pole means that both live and neutral are switched together, ie. simultaneously. www.voltimum.co.uk/articles/neutral-conductors-terminated regarding general wiring see: the-regs.co.uk/blog/?p=309 With the greatest respect to your explanation, I think it's much more simply that, bulb failures are a relatively common event. In the UK we used to mainly use Bayonet Cap (BC) bulbs. The design of the bulb means the live terminals cannot be accessed normally and removing the bulb disconnects both conductors simultaneously. With a BC housing you need to make an effort to be zapped by accident. The most modern "MK" buld socket fittings can auto retract their conductors, so it is near impossible to get zapped even with clumsy fingers. With the introduction of now commonly used Edison Screw (ES) bulbs in the UK, regulations state that the "exposed" screw cap terminal "must" be wired to the neutral conductor. If only the neutral is switched, then there is a strong likely-hood that the consumer would be in very real danger of coming into contact with the exposed live conductor when removing the bulb. Assuming it is still connected to the live terminal. Electrical theory states that when a neutral is disconnected at the switch, everything else then floats to live voltage. Thus the neutral terminal has magically transformed into a live terminal. This is a very dangerous scenario. Certainly, if you grab a 240v AC item without touching anything else you will receive a very nasty jolt regardless. There is no requirement to grab a random grounded pipe, steam or otherwise to get a noticeable unpleasant zap from 240v, the air around you is sufficient for that to happen. This is why people in Europe have a healthy respect for electricity.

Hi! Thanks for all the awesome info! I have always been fascinated about electrical wiring since I was 9 Years old. I think that seeing an Episode of "Keeping Up Appearances" in the 90's here when Hyacinth volunteered Richard to Fix the Church hall Electrics. started my fascination with electrical wiring in the UK. My Dad was in Europe during WW2 and I remember him telling me that your mains current is 240 V 50 Hz, But at a later age when I got the internet and started searching web pages and videos on You Tube About the UK color codes and wiring for residential use, and Phone, I was Hooked! Our 240 volts is mainly used for electric ranges, Some clothes dryers, Central AC Units, Welders and some high output air compressors for residential use. we also have higher voltages for industrial power 440,550, 600. everything else is 130 V AC 60 Hz. we have just recently (1970's) started using Ground fault interrupters here [ Either Breakers or built right into the outlets. ] before that, if someone was dumb enough to drop their electric shaver in a sink of water and reach in to retrieve it b4 unplugging it, or use a Hair dryer in the tub they were Literally in for a great shock! but I assume that the UK has had them for quite a while b4 we did. which makes since having 230 V line current. I Subbed to your channel BTW :)

Thank you for your reply and further information. British comedy programs such as "Some Mother Do 'Ave 'Em, may not be representative of reality. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-qCxv64kqg4k.html For the UK GFCI's are called RCD's (the same as in Europe) and they have been around for a long time here too. They only became a requirement in the UK for new internal household domestic electrical wiring in 2008. www.cycloflow.com/2014/02/what-are-elcb-rccb-rcbo-and-rcds.html also the following might be of interest to you www.cycloflow.com/2014/04/a-power-translation.html There was a complete change in the wiring regulations in the 50's and modern UK regulations, customs and practises are vastly different and much safer now.

Thanks. . . .

Thank you for the question @mikeypeters7003. If you are a person who understands your wiring then the answer is usually: Yes, it is easy to change. But it truly depends on the configuration of your wiring and my answer is assuming that it is wired in a typical standard way. Tracking the path of live and neutral conductor paths through a circuit should be simple for a competent person who is conversant with typical electrical wiring. The fact you have to ask would suggest that you may not have the skills needed to maintain your wiring in a safe and secure way. I would strongly suggest that if you lack confidence or you're unsure (in any way) then always seek the advice of a licensed professional.

@@robertwilliams8032 Thank you for the reply. The extent of my knowledge would be basic at best. I would struggle with a ceiling rose.

Thanks for your question, this video may help to give further information and potential solutions to the issue you have ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-AQtUgdHBvXc.html

very late but here is a technical explanation: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-AQtUgdHBvXc.html

You are correct that it's not physically dangerous. It is basically the same issue, as the switching lines are radiating a small amount of energy sufficient to light certain types of LED. The third switch in your setup would be called an "intermediate switch" in the UK. It suggests that the wiring for your switching lines are particularly long, making this aberration more likely and brighter taboot. In North America a configuration like yours would be termed four-way switching, while in the UK it's called three-way switching. Whether it could be considered a fault of either the wiring or the bulb is a different question but no wiring regulations would have been broken in the UK for this to happen. There is only a question mark around good/best practise. Note that if you're not using an earth in your lighting installation then it doesn't matter if it's switched live or neutral. With no earth connection, a susceptible bulb and longwire runs, it will still glow. I suppose I should make another video explaining the actual physics behind this aberration.

A very late reply but here is a technical explanation ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-AQtUgdHBvXc.html

It is generally fine as long as it doesn't keep you awake.

You need to be very sure what you're doing before you start doing it. If you're not certain how your system is wired, I would suggest calling a very competent/qualified electrician as the danger to life and property is too serious to joke with. I am not sure of a wiring arrangement that you have described. Two reds and one yellow? It may suggest that it's already switched live but that would be pure speculation. Sadly speculation isn't good enough when it comes to dealing with things that can kill or cause major damage to you. Please note, I have not yet got it together to make an explanation of why this fault happens but the asymmetry is primarily caused by the circuits proximity to an earth as well as capacitive coupling. If you have no earth (as some do in the UK) then this issue can happen irrespective of which way round it is switched. If this is a capacitive coupling issue and you're not using a dimmer in circuit, then the link in my description to the Minisun LED would be my preferred choice. There is another workaround but I will do a video on that as the implications of misunderstanding it are too serious. The workaround is really to fix a poor LED bulb design anyway. There are several other reasons why this can happen, which have to do with other components on the same circuit. It would take a braver person than me to make that recommendation, sorry.

Thank you for your comment and I'm glad the content was valuable to you.

This is not a how to video it is an explanation of a fault with a description of solutions and why they work. I totally agree that if you do not have a rock solid understanding of mains electricity you should seek professional advice. On the counter side there are a lot of professionals who do not understand the reasons behind this issue and I hope this video ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-AQtUgdHBvXc.html will help them along the path to understanding a suitable resolution. If you had this issue and it magically went away by just keeping your light on I would be suspicious of the quality of your wiring. If you live in the UK and you haven't had one done consider an EICR from a reputable professional.

@@robertwilliams8032 Wiring is fine. The issue is with the LED itself (cheap). It happens from time to time but thought I'd have a look if there are any solutions to this annoyance apart from getting a new bulb. I'm sure many people will have this same issue, but will see this and will think it's a good idea to start pissing about with their wiring.

MDTV Tube the neutral is switched instead of the lead

That is correct when you have a single pole switch. Thank you for your comment.

My first Troll, now I feel like a proper RU-vidr. Thanks for the baptism.

How is that a troll? You are deliberately disconnecting the grounded conductor and leaving the hot wire energized even when the device is off. If you are an electrician and get caught doing this your licence would be revoked and at least be fined. You are setting a booby trap for anyone who works on this in the future.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it watch a demostration of a problem video. Maybe electricity is not your thing. There is no shame in that, many people find both wiring and electricity, confusing and difficult. If in any doubt consult a qualified electrician.

Definitely, you need to consult a qualified electrician.

Thank you for your feedback. :-)

I'm not sure what you're asking? If you mean remove the bulb each time, then this could be considered an alterantive approach, though fiddly and slightly inconvenient on a daily basis. Better to buy bulbs that don't have the problem in the first place.

Thanks for your comment. I was explaining within the bounds of a specific situation, which may account why my explanation is more complex. If you're struggling to make sense of what I explained then there're certainly better and clearer youtubers who have talked about this issue in a simpler and clearer way, which you may find more acceptable to you. Hopefully I've sparked and interest in the topic for you.

A very late reply but here is a technical explanation: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-AQtUgdHBvXc.html

m butts I have that same problem did u get it fixed I need help my dome light won't turn off cause I switched it to led

in a car it's usually done with a capacitor, an incandescent bulb drowns the capacitor much more quickly than a led ever will