Lennox gas pack won't heat up 

I was taught when you have a ball valve or gas cock feeding a regulator to open it slowly so not to hammer the regulator. Also never shut off the power to a gas furnace while it is fired. Shut it down through control or shut off the gas and let it cool down before cycling power. You can trip limits or have a fire damper slam shut and neither are fun to deal with. I had a bunch of 95% furnaces on a construction site. Had a helper at the furnace while I adjusted supply vents from blowing in the return vent and notice the air flow shut off. I went to the furnace and the helper had shut off the power. He said “ man that thing made a loud noise”. I bet it did I say. The fire damper had slammed shut. He had a lesson on heat links that day lol.

It’s time to update that manometer bro I dig the old school tools tho. I got a analog hydro gauge manometer haven’t broke it out in years but I just might can’t beat the accuracy of em. Nice to keep on the van

How are you so relaxed all the time. ? That is admirable

Some "dip-switch" has got the gas meter all jacked up 😁👌

I learn so much with these videos, thanks a lot.

Excellent troubleshooting. Patience is a virtue and you have it. I've learned new things thanks to you.

Your completely correct in your explanation of the Venturi principle. It’s precisely how auto carburetors work. And you were saying it correctly. FYI, the singular is venturis.

That's a great catch. I would've been up there checking 1 unit all day before finding gas pressure issue. You calm demeanor seems to help you catch the problems. That looks like the building has gas pressure issues. Regulators hardly fail again hardly doesn't mean never but if they were bought out same spot same time could mean they failed at same time.

This definitely looks like building pressure issues. Good find bro

Your right, the building must have pressure issues. The regulators you were working on are blown, they need to be changed after the main issue is fixed and who knows if any other regulators are bad or damaged. The property owner should realize it would be better and cheeper to have every regulator changed than risk a problem.

Curious indeed. Like the way you walked thru the order of operations. I have absolutely no furnace experience but it sounded similar to a giant 100 gallon steam kettle I dove into for the first time last month... inducer fan, gas valve, ignition, flame sensing etc.

I bet the vent on the regulator is plugged. I just diagnosed a bad gas valve to a building a few weeks ago and all 16 units were doing the same thing. Easy find (for once). Keep up the good work bro

In Australia we have pilot operated gas main regulators on services over about 3 inch diameter, this is the main regulator from the high pressure street main down to reticulation pressure that supplies appliances in the building. Some of those regulators are basically a poppet type valve with a linkage to a spring diaphragm with reference pressure driving the regulator poppet closed. I have found on copper mains the pipe sheds a fine black scale internally that jams the valve making it slow to respond. My experiences were with gas fired internal combustion engines driving generators and supplying hot water (Co Gen units) in the 600 - 1000 kW range. While the engine was running everything is good, shut it down for service and it wouldn't restart, had random high fuel pressure alarms, low fuel pressure alarms, stagnate starts where the engine would start and get to idle but once the breaker closed it wouldn't make power then fault out on fuel alarms or missfire alarms. Frustrating as hell. Wouldn't have found it but my co worker went outside to check the gas isolation valves were all in the correct position and he actually heard the regulator 'grinding' as it was moving position.

Another good one! I've found those style burner tubes are separated at the end where its flat to wick the flame across to the others,

Great video. I'm looking forward to seeing what the issue is. I don't get any gas experience in SW Florida.

17:55 "Sometimes when you kick stuff it works." aka "Mechanical readjustment"

"Sometimes when you kick stuff it works" 🤣🤣🤣 Thanks for your videos man I really appreciate them! Keep them coming!

Addicted to pipe dope lol. Ur lucky that's the best kind of dope to be addicted too. Thanks for the video as always you're awesome!!!

Wonder how long this has been an issue. You may still want to change the regulators on the roof because they have been hammered internally. When the incoming gas pressure to the gas valve at the unit is corrected, you may find the unit gas valve needs to be replaced as well. Looking forward to a follow up video. Smart decision to get the gas company involved.

Good job I'm glad I'm not the only one who hasn't invested in aluminum wrenches yet lol

Great video as usual thanks

Thank you 4 sharing.

I just had my propane supplier replace both primary and secondary regulators at home. The secondary regulator behaved very similarly - too much pressure when the furnace was off and then too little after the burner started - it would settle down after a few starts, but sometimes the furnace would give up and lock out. I guess after 29 years in service they can act squirrely.

Nice job and video

10:34 is the way to loosen any union. I was watching and thinking in the first place that how would I explain him to do it that way next time.. Haha but you did. Thanks buddy

Awesome!

Definitely very interesting never heard of this happening

God one Bill, we expect the results soon 🤔 (but sounds building pressure issues).

The regulator to the building has failed or has been replaced and not set properly. All the regulators on all gas equipment have been hammered. The regulators are designed for inlet and outlet pressure. They are trying to reduce pressure beyond their means. When proper pressure is established you will find the regulators have probably failed. You will get a woofing with the flames and you will see the pressure rise and fall. The gas valves to the burners are probably ok. I’ve seen this exact same thing. An easy way to get a union loose is to hit it with the back of your wrenches or hammers. Hit it on opposing sides in a loosening direction. They come loose very easy this way.

You should look into Venom thread tape and sealant, best stuff I have ever used Won’t go back to anything else.

I would be interested to know if there is a primary regulator at the gas meter that has failed. One trick I'll do is break the union completely (discount them) then open up the gas stop, then see if the pressure comes out steadily strong or if it drops off. This has help me find water in the gas line several times in cities where they have leaks underground in low pressure lines, not saying water is your issue but it will tell you if your supply pressure is consistent under a max load. Good video Mr.

I’ve had this happen to me on several units at fort Gordon, Ga. every time they messed with the gas lines on post trash got into the lines we had to go around taking the regulators off let the lines blow out and occasionally replace the regulator

In trade school our textbook had a notice in one of the side columns that read, "use moderate amount of dope." Sage life advice.

Nice video I would have to agree with you

Paper clip, or stat wire works good clearing cobwebs out of the orifices without having to take orifice off. Tech tip.

I ran into a situation like that and the main gas regulater for the building was not set up for the new tenant

at 17:29 guaranteed that regulator is spanked, probably laying full of water/minerals since the cap over the adjuster hole is missing. the adjuster are rarely sealed tight and water will run right past the threads and fill it up. the vent pipe and elbows could have wasps or spiders in it also, if they loose atmospheric venting all kinds of bad things will happen. no pressure, low/high pressure and everything else in between. just beware there could be water/rust in the line before the unit, possibly blown through into the gas valves and with the severe over-pressure, they should flat be replaced also

Sweet dude! I agree with the group consensus.

On the gas company side I've seen the regulator at the meter fail and over pressurize the house line on a commercial business like this and the pressure coming through the meter is higher than the secondary regulators can handle/designed for and the membrane in the regulator is slamming open and closed as the valves come on and off. The regulators are sometimes designed with an excessive flow valve as well so if a line is cut it closes most of the way but some pressure still gets through to proven air/water from getting in the gas system. When the lines are fixed and the pressures balances out the EFV will open back up to allow normal flow. This is how regulators should prevent an explosion or 2' flames from your stove or burners. In my area this is a very big/bad AOC "Abnormal Operating Conditions" in witch we shut down the gas valve at the meter ASAP and I've had dispatch call 911 services as a safety precaution before. (For example; the even that happened just a few years ago out east that caused several houses to explode when a contractor tapped into a wrong pressure line. They tapped into a high pressure line (50-60psi) into an old system networked that was low pressure with no regulators because it already runs a end use pressures. That's why gas companies all over the country are upgrading their systems from Low pressures to High for safety and leak detection. Remember these older systems are well past their exportation date running through old cast-iron, rusted steel and even wood in older neighborhoods. (Public safety message) For any one how comes across high gas pressure like this / smells NG gas and/or hissing call the local gas company ASAP and or 911 from a safe location and remove ignition sources from the area and don't mess with any electrical switches. Let the gas company make it safe and keep your local gas/electric companies emergency numbers on hand/ on your phone.

another thing you might want to do is check the gas pressure with a meter that goes a bit higher. If its hit over 14" the gas valves may be toast. Honeywell says , Never over 14" WC max for those valves, or they may be damaged. The only thing common to those two regulators is the main regulator. If they jacked up the main pressure regulator to accommodated additional load, the other sub regulators will require adjustment as well. They are all likely high.

hahaha " I'm getting better at not using so much pipe dope ". literally the next fitting you smear a shit ton of it on the threads. Good video!

I had an issue exactly like this. Someone that was on the roof may have kicked the gas line or something and set off the earthquake sensor that shuts the line. Told them to have the gas company come and inspect and had them restart it for liability reasons. Odd thing is that its supposed to shut the line off but I had the same issue where it was bleeding gas from the shutoff. After gas company reset it and we did a follow up and there was no issues after that.

With new loads they may have to change meter this is nat gas right

I am leaning towards regulators issues,plus gas issues coming into building sporadically... Renovations to a large strip mall,can cause havoc on the regulators... Its to bizzar both units with 15 + inches water column.. Let us know if it was regulators? My gut yes,plus gas flowimg with condensbles ,being due to renovation work.. Top off with new gas in storage tank.new regulators and good to go..im curious.. Bryan Tyler Refrigeration

Hello I'm new in the channel and on the trade as well. I'm glad you shared this with us, I've been learning a lot from guys like you that share this rare cases thank you. Like share and subscribe already done Sir.

Keep us posted what the problem was ... Thank's Bill ...

Regulator screwed and the pressure damaged the gas valves?

Casual wasp nest at 1:40 has me like... this is gonna be a good one...

Those are usually referred to as inshot burners. Ted Cook calls them air horns. I call them thrusters. Also, have you upgraded to a digital manometer yet? 😀

Looks like main meter has issues. btw most equipment has a maximum inlet of 14 inch W/C. Also commercial kitchen ranges have standing pilots , when something like this happens the pilots go out and spilling natural gas into the kitchen area ! Make sure you check the kitchens guys !

I'm wondering if debris got into the line by the work done below. I dont do gas but steam. And when working on pipe and a chunk gets into a PRV it fails. And almost every time when work is done down strem of a line something up stream will need to be repaired. Oh also I firmly believe in percussive maintenance. Lol

Had the same issue change the the vent on the regulator work but found out I had a crack heat exchanger .

I see that all the time, first thing to check is that stupid galvanized pipe vent on the external regulator. Mud wasps build nests in them and plug them up causing the diaphragm to not sense atmospheric pressure causing the regulator to stick. once you know for sure your vent is clear check gas pressure to and from regulator, can almost guarantee its that or the regulator itself, they do go bad. I have rarely on occasion had gas building pressure issues, usually on buildings that have had a lot of retrofit where they add too many units with out upgrading gas meter or running long runs of 3/4" gas lines etc. Too high of gas pressure jams the gas valve and that's why it isn't sending any gas to manifold, too little primary gas will cause the flame to not spread. I have also had to set building gas pressure at the building regulator even though your supposed to have the gas company do it. I put gas meter on the furthest unit and turn heating on all units and make sure I adjusts the gas pressure enough to get over 7.5" wc to each unit with out external regulators with external regulators higher pressure because the external regulator steps it down to 7.5" for unit gas valve, this is to insure enough cfm. I also get rid of those kind of vents on external regulators and get a maxicap.

Sure would like to know what you figured out. LP or NAT? of course LP is a lot higher pressure like 11"wc. And where I live I wanna say incoming NAT to the building is like 1/2 psi. Dang... I'm curious!!

Man! You come across some curious issues.

you had pressure but no volume. thats why the inlet gas pressure dropped when there was demand. seems like the gas is nearly shut off somewhere. check if there is a earthquake valve that is tripped. then check the shutoff for the main gas to the building. then check the regulator vent for the regulators. when an earthquake valve trips it sometimes doesnt shut all the gas off. it will give the pressure but no volume.

I’ve seen the regulators freeze if there not the outdoor type.

Check the vents on the regulators

I have run into this problem in Chicago. It sounds like the high building gas pressure is slowly taking out the smaller individual rtu regulators, one by one. In Chicago, that inlet pressure shouldn't have been more than 10-14" wc. The fact that high gas pressure is present at the regulator inlet indicates a problem with the building regulator or supply. I would've called the gas company before I left, just to cover my ass.

Wow Novar board I think Ross department stores one of the last to use those? Lol am I right?

I live in Minnesota and I have a heat pump why doesn't it heat properly when it's -30 out by the way it's a mini split

Good vid bud. I would call Gas utility company, either main or step down regulator is acting goofy.

Another important issue when it comes to gas. If you get to a location and the gas has been turned off do not turn it back on. Their may be a plumber or another tech working on the line. Whom ever shut off the gas must be the person to turn it back on. A lockout tag out should be used when working on a gas main. I went to a candy supply warehouse. We had a cold snap come through. The gas was shut off so no heat for the candy. Chocolate will change to a white color if it’s exposed to warm and cold cycles. I told them I would not turn on the gas because I did not turn it off. Come to find out their was an open 3/4” pipe in a new area of the building where they were installing a bay heater. This could have been very bad. If you can’t find out who shut off the gas a pressure test must be performed.

Yes i had same issue in rheem unit and was bad regulator and replaced

in my area the gas company will come out and check the building pressure for free,if i was in that situation i would try that first

In my experience they should apply about 14 IWC to the gas valve

I'd put my money on failed building supply regulator hanging up. Especially since it would run the low demand heaters - when the regulator are like any other mechanical thing - if it's not used to running in a particular range it might be sticking where it won't open up with enough gas volume to keep the pressure up. Let us know if you find out

Let me get 🍕,,,,,I am start watch,,,,,,let’s rolling ,,,,

Did you get check Gas meter?

#70 thumbs up

👍

FYI, those are inshot burners, the cylinder where the combustion air and the gas mix is called the venturi. Also, a pipe wrench is for pipes, not the flats of connections on unions and flex gas line connections. Adjustable wrenches are used for flats on connections.

Did you ever find out what the issue was?

I’ve seen a gas meter do this. It’s supposed to feed 2 psi to all the regulators and they then step down to 10” or so. I just put a pressure gauge on the outlet of the meter and have someone go turn some stuff on. Gas company ended up having to clean out some screens in the pressure reducing valve just after meter.

Maybe the renovation going on has knocked some grit or dirt loose in the gas piping and gotten into the regulators and is plugging up the ports on the regulators that control the diaphragm inside. Very strange failure!

here a wasp, there a wasp, probably wasp's in the regulator also or them darned mud dauber wasp's. they sure wont help any being in the inducer exhaust stream, that shuts down many units in apartment complexes not far from here, guaranteed 100+ no heat calls in fall and the rest of the summer was spent spraying them off the balcony and overhangs

Just had a regulator vent clogged with a baby Bee that was causing my regulator not to work correctly

Did you ever find the answer to this problem?

Regulator Vent / Regulator / Mains Regulator.

Did you have building pressure issues is the problem with the main regulator to the building as well as the regulators to each unit replace all problems solved

pull the hi lim off to make sure its huts off

that was a weird one

I bet if you tried to fire up the big one the small one wouldn't have lit either

What was the outcome ? Gas company? Pressure Just a guess Tricks the best of us as we are trained to find unit malfunctions most of the time due to failed components

what about the follow up

The regulatory on gas line tells me it propane

Hey buddy I don’t think you know any gas fitting knowledges. You should have left to the gas fitter to do the job!!!!!! You should have known that the inlet gas valve pressure is 7” wc, not looking for 3.5”wc. And you have known that the gas regulator is a 2psig. Industrial gas fitter to the British Columbia province industry for over 41 years!!!!!!

The building has a gas pressure issue

somebody getting tazed

Your a plumber today

gas, gas, blow it out your ***

I hate it when they paint the pipes.