Les Carter & Ross. Parental Alienation Is Narcissistic Abuse at Its Worse. Part 1 of 2 

Years ago I got in trouble. Not really a big deal but I went to work release for 2 weeks. My husband picked me up along with my daughter and we went to lunch. During lunch he told me that he was going to seek custody over my daughter and take her from me. He alienated my daughter from me because he wanted her social security money. We went to court and the court wasnt going to rule in his favor but my daughter stood up and said she wanted to live with her dad.

Yes. Well put.

Yes. No one cares. Your kids are gone? Nothing to see here. Move along. Funerals you never have, yes....this is one of the things in life that only those who experienced it can understand.

Yes 😢 💔🤗🙏❤️

​@@bonniekesic8040 what a shock for you ❤️🙏

Also, we REALLY like your viewpoint & hope to see your written contribution in our community!

Spot on. 🎯

Huh???

I soooo feel that; I've been going thru some crazy ish for the last 7 years. It's so off the wall I came to the very same conclusion.

I completely agree.

DIL’s especially…

That was my face too. Narc grandparents narcz, I was abused. Married a borderline, loved him dearly. Accepted all his mooiste and rages, tread softly, not to upset him.Malignant narc grandmother adored eldest son. Always contacted him and, I realised he became her flying monkey later on. After many years'marraige, hsb became mentally disabled, and it became clear to me I have been alienated, maybe I took the scapegoat role uncontiously. Husb died of heart attack, thats when the grown children started attacking me emotionally. 3 daughters were sweet, but 3 sons narcissistic. One belived daughter passed away.2 daughters were loving. Youngest living with a narcissist, so only 1 loving daughter left. Thankful for her love.

or you yourself. i’m seeing parents in here playing victim and not addressing their responsibility in the downfall.

Asa grandparent- I see MANY loving, normal grandparents denied the chance to ever see their grandchildren. Usually bc of divorce, but often just s***ty, selfish, narcissistic kids, who don't want to be bothered with their old parents.

Older adult children can alienate their younger siblings against a parent they’re pissed at. My oldest I is 36 and 9 years older than my 2nd daughter. She never had anything to do with her until I laid my oldest daughter off work for calling me names and have her bf text me to tell me what a great person she is and how hard she works. She took vegeance on me and then my Exhusband had been doing it all along and I didn’t realize it. Now they all hate me and call me names. It’s driven me into major depression and anxiety. I can’t get over my kids. It’s really like a funeral you never attended. They walked out the door one day and disappeared. I’m heartbroken and angry.

Living it

Me too,, it's so unfair 😢

@@marilynhoward4561 Yes it is and to conceptualize it for the inexperienced is impossible.

I cry all the time over this.

@@kimheaton8152 I’m sorry for you

Wonderful testimony! God bless you!

So you do not say why the hostility,did you betray your ex and if did you do drugs?you say nothing about the cause.this sounds like narcissistic content as well,so did you deserve the treatment as he got parental custody?

I’m so happy to hear that. Not having children ,this harrowing account is traumatising, unimaginable pain for the parent/victim of such a scenario. wishing you and your daughter full recovery from the assault upon yr relationship.

@@rogerdale1883I can’t believe you actually wrote that. WTF!

@@sararichardson737 I have no idea what you are talking about,mebe you are psycotic?

💔😥

Narcissistic You?

​@@NickFurley3:39

It will not help for people like me & my brother who were taken away from one parent at a very young ages (4 yo & 6 months old) and had years of mental/emotional abuse, lies & manipulation by the custodial parent.

…and then it dawns on you one of the ‘kids’ has turned into a narc themselves.

I have a simple solution. In cases of false allegations, reverse child support and custody. Family court provides incentives for Narcs. Take away the motivation and mechanism to harm, and the Narc will stop.

I agree with you. This needs to be taught in an early age. It’s time it stops.❤🙏🙏🙏🙏

While I wholeheartedly agree that this needs to be taught... All of these horrific people are incredibly prolific in concealing who they really are. They have charm and charisma like no other. These are the personality types that are often able to even dupe even the most aware, educated, dedicated professionals. People who spend their lives studying these monsters with the insidiously beautiful masks.

Louisa, I'm so sorry for what you've been through. I relate to this too, I have similar situation.

Thats tough. God bless

Yep understand going through this myself

Yes, it's heartbreaking; sorrow for life. Glad you were reconciled to your father. My mother separated three husbands from their children, and tried to turn mine against me and my husband, succeeding with 2 of our 5. She kept me physically from my father as a child and teen and tried to persuade me that he was bad, and even brain-damaged! He was a very kind person and my only parent who never spoke ill of the others. He showed me unconditional love so that when I became a Christian as an adult, I could easily relate to a loving heavenly Father whom I can't see but to whom I have worth. Peace and courage to you. God still has a plan for our children; keep praying for their salvation; we could be reconciled in the life to come with everything explained and every tear wiped away.

What you need to understand is that PA is cycleatory. It was your narcissistic mother that predisposed you to taking a narcissistic partner. What you experienced as a child became normalized as you sought to form your own family. I suggest for you to begin healing (if you have not already done so) find, forgive and reconnect with your alienated father. Do not confront your narcissistic mother. Narcissists will retaliate with a vengeance if you remove their mask. In fact the only way you can protect yourself from narcissistic abuse is to go completely "no contact". This is hard. Perhaps the hardest thing you will ever do. You have likely not experienced the level of narcissistic abuse from your mother that I did, so you may not need to go to the lengths I did. When the time comes for forgiveness of the unforgivable, you can forgive them because they are mentally ill. Forgiveness is for you, not for them. But, forgiveness is hard.

Keep a journal daily. Never mentioning ‘him’ . Try to write your biography with every possible good thing you have done or felt or seen. Pretend that your daughter will someday come across the truth you have lived. Your life that she now has no idea how you were formed . You’ll probably feel better and if she ever comes across this biography, she’ll probably grow. Just a thought. ❤❤❤❤❤ (he can’t win if there’s no contest) 🤜🤛😘

That is his main goal..

God Bless you, I know it's a terrible thing I feel for you. It is so hard, just stay strong. I am going thru this also, my daughter is 15 and it's been 4ish years. 🌹🙏

Be strong. Don’t stoop to the narcissists level. 🙏🏽 ❤

I am going through it right now . I have not seen my 28 yo daughter for four years …. He had me blacked out a few times …… make me look more messed up than him …. And my sister jumped on it and helped turn her against me with lies ! How could they ? My only daughter ! My heart is with you

Pure evil....

I am going through it right now with my brother.

Oh my, that's exactly what happened in my family. The saving grace was reconnecting with my father 30 years ago and we now have the best, clearest, honest relationship. I'm so lucky.

Exactly what my father has done to his family

Miriam, the account of your experience exactly mirrors my experience then and now; the sabotage, the face-to-face lies and subsequent cover-up, the manipulation of the minds of children and spouse. I divorced her after 21 years of marriage and am still dealing with the cabal of deceit that she has wrought on 2 of the 3 kids we raised. There is no real hell that is suitable for those that perpetuate the lie and groom children to execute it.

Yes. This sometimes already starts in early childhood. She can do this to everyone in and out of family to extended family. It goes on all life. Even if they act like they love you they are just sociopaths waiting to stab you or gaslight. They will bring everyone against you and act like they are there to help you. They will gaslight and lie and poison you against everyone else

❤

Good (except in case of violence or real abuse).

Be careful, many times the abuser will use a law like that to victimize a protective parent.

❤

Moving away from my abusers saved my life 🙏

My kids came back in their teens, after 10 years of PA and three years of basically no contact! If I would have moved away to try save myself (impossible to flee from those feelings anyway), they would have been dead now. They were a mess from emotional abuse when they came back, still after 13 years they have signs of c-ptsd.

Some kids come to their senses in their 30's I've heard. Not sure I can wait that long

Get into a good church. Have your entire church pray for your family. This is the only things that has helped me. I have been going through for 33 years with my 2 ex's , and a narcissist mother, and a narcissistic sister. I moved away, which really helped.

I was too....they come back as soon as they can. With lots of things to say about the Narcissist parent ♥️

@@encodedinrhythm8943 At least 3 of my SIL's have these traits. I am quite familiar. One sister is a covert sneaky, sociopath.😉

Just read the comments below and that's my life too. Loved my child, I had to view kidnap Infront of my eyes daily and I was so broken down I was totally unable to defend myself.

There is now doubt...your are 100% correct. Go back to the good advice from the good school teacher about the school bully who would pull your younger family asside, call you a bad person for no reason other then to pick a fight with you, tell you could see your younger family if you paid up, tried to recrute your family to their bully side, LET THE SCHOOL PRINCIPAL HANDLE THAT BULLY... STAY AWAY FROM THE HORRIFIC ABUSIVE BULLY, DON'T GO AROUND THAT BULLY WHO IS TARGETTING YOU, DO NOT LOOK AT THE BULLY...DO NOT COMMUNICATE WITH THAT BULLY....IGNORE, IGNORE, IGNORE THAT BULLY.....let the peace keeper do their job. If that school principal does not stop the bullying, tell the state department of education that principal needs to lose their license in failure to protect children and parents from bully abuse! Now when it comes to adult bullying...think all that in perspective of the bully parent, the judge either doing their job to protect the children and innocent parent, or the state needing notiifed of the horrific uncivil family law judge allowing narcistic parenting over love, care and share proper parenting!

I have been the same , I just found narcissistic abuse for 20 months. I have been abused by my husband , now I separated from him.

Dude, hold on tight, because it gets much much worse. If you divorce her, she will poison your relationship with your girls, and pretend she has no idea what you're complaining about. The .ore miserable you are or look, the happier your wife will be. I chose to be super happy about everything no matter how bad things got to be. In the final analysis, you will sleep better at night, and she will self-destruct. Your girls will be very confused for many years. Just be there for them. The only way through this, is with faith and prayers.

I saw my oldest daughter break. I literally saw cracks in her face when het father alienated her from her family there because she was with me. She was 14. Two years she tried to make up with him out of guilt he projected onto her and finally she turned against me to be loyal to him. He made the youngest one wright a letter to the court (she was 12) and since then I am treated as a criminal. Ten years of alienation now and it is used against me in several situations. Twenty years ago I had to flee from him, but I was totally in the dark about narcism, after that 50% 'co' parenting, but never co. I left them 50% of the week alone with him while I had to flee. And I know that the oldest one often came back to me very sad with the feeling that she was going mad. But I thought I was the problem. I also had to withdraw from my own family and found out that friends were also in this dynamic. In the meanwhile his influence reaches most of the people of the town I live in and the enablers are everywhere. So I live isolated and because of my clairsentience I am bearly able to social contact. Sometimes I wonder what does it take for them to snap out of this. I hope you can limit the damage it causes to your children and that they keep their sanity and develop healthy reason. Much strength and love ❤ (sorry for translation)

@@faciemus5725 it is unbelievable, truly unbelievable what happens . In a way you were lucky to get your children, I say lucky , everything they touch turns to shite , cherish your children . . My narc is doing the parental alienation thing , has my beautiful girls in her grasp , they do acknowledge me but the loyalty to their mother is strong . Stockholm syndrome at play . I'm staying calm and firm and hopefully they will see through the facade.

​@@faciemus5725 Your children are better because their mother is gone. I have a narcissist father and I had always hoped my mother would divorce him. She was afraid to. My best to you and your daughter's. Enjoy a peaceful life now!

I agree it’s some thing that needs to be addressed!!!

Closed courts? What does that mean? I never heard of it. tho most all courts & family lawyers ARE woefully Ignorant. Judges are a Liberal lost cause & very ignorant to Family law

I wasted 12 years ignoring the Red flags, and not admitting these things Exist is truly not reality, you can't fix a cheater, a Psychopath, or A Narcissist, it's as simple you can get in touch with him. @protech_1448

the feels, me too

Exactly the same for me !!

What is the point of the narcissistic behavior? Why, what do they want to gain? Why do they create so much fear, hate, anguish what's in it for them and why do they pick on some and not others. I don't understand what they are trying to accomplish l just don't get it. Any ideas please? It sounds sick in mind behavior action. Grazymaking comes to mind but why?

They just want to feel like the winner, that the kids love them more. They are finally the preferred one.

I wasted 12 years ignoring the Red flags, and not admitting these things Exist is truly not reality, you can't fix a cheater, a Psychopath, or A Narcissist, it's as simple you can get in touch with him. @protech_1448

I'm in sorta the same. Mine is a covert narc. I'm trying to get free- my youngest daughter was disowned by him, and she's in recovery. She's opened my eyes to this new diagnosis. Super controlling, but very nice and seemingly empathetic. So confusing, and terrible to realize the full dysfunctionality of our home. I don't want to hurt him- he's had enough of that, but I need to be free to be Me, not what he defines me as. The manipulation and gaslighting, and second-guessing, are so destructive.

What a great mother to teach them compassion and therefore love fir their flawed father. They will be better parents and grandparents because of you.

Why would you do that to little children? They are children let children be if there are problems with an x let it be these children will soon be adults they can figure things out. Confused l am.

​@@catherinepatton8699 with a narc ex and parent, letting it be is not an option, they won't let it be an option. If you freeze them out, you're the bad one, if you let them see the kids, they screw with the kids heads. You have to watch your work be undone, watch them accuse you while they paint a false picture of themselves. The only chink in their armour is their stupidity and their complete lack of realisation that they can't operate above the law.

I understand your pain, but when my dad remarried after the divorce, my dad's wife was ONLY my dad's wife. At sixteen she was just my dad's wife, and at 57 she is just my dad's wife. I would have preferred to have my parents together. Even though my dad was a narc, I still loved him, though now I DONT love my abuser, and don't want anything to do with him.

@@cynthiafortier2540 Your situation sounds tough & exclusionary. I met my step kids at 3 & 5 so I threw myself into it. There's been healing for us so I do see my step kids and still love them. But the sabotage by their mother (turning to them after an arrest) was awful just awful. Take good care.

Exactly! !!

🎯Boom! I know exactly what you're saying... Completely understand 💌

Sounds like my life

Yhat is what l am talking about why? What's in it for someone to behave that way? Accomplish what? What's the point? When all is said and done. Very confusing to me.

I’ve had it happen by my mother too, and also other “flying monkeys”. Yet she claims I kept her grandchildren from her (projecting).

@@dawnbaggett3716 ❤️

Yes it does. I belong to a group. It’s widespread.

yes

Sending you love ❤️

I am happy for you, you sound smart, clear, loving l absolutely love animals also they can be so funny l am happy you have them they don't judge my little cat lives to snuggle and watch utube animat cartoons, l will say video time there she sits waiting for her time with a mouse in the house clawing at ath mouse running across the screen then a bird will chime in Dolly, my cat starts to chirp and the show is on the road, great fun. Be well, you sound like a nice friend.

@@backfromthedarkalive right back at you ❤

@@catherinepatton8699 Thank you, you are very kind . What a sweet cat you have , bless her ❤. Life without animals 😢 wouldn't be a life . One ❤

Same.. 😢

Is there a common denominator?

​@@DeportedDomingoSocial media

@@kristinyoung2815 thats crazy i thought they have the same mom

This is why you are all alienated. You never take responsibility. You never change.

Sorry. Your own children. Must be unbearable.

Most courts or judges will not let a mother move especially if your dad had visitation rights .

He should have filed kidnapping charges on her !

YES. ...Mentally, They are Children! Never grew up, immature

This is my life!

Great, so what does a person do about this? I'm in the same boat and a divorce would make the situation 100x worse.

@@nelsonartemio4218 Divorce does not solve the problem that God is trying to work out in us. We can learn how to deal with the narcissist in our lives by not answering them back, by blessing them and not cursing no matter how ugly they become. I believe it is more important that we not allow them to make us like them by our unkind responses. The Bible teaches us how to handle those who are rude and unkind, and it is not becoming rude and unkind ourselves.

Oh boy how familiar I am with this. Golden child malignant narcissist youngest brother. Spoiled brat and enabled his entire life. Now, he is dangerous and deadly. He is the "Dark Triad."

And or have their own kids give them a taste of their own medicine

My good God, this sounds so sick so impossible to clear up years of experience of emotional pain. What do the perpetrators want? What and why do they do things you describe they could say what's on their mind from the get go so why generational games? Would they feel better if you were dead? What do they want? What are they saying in an indirect way? What outcome are they looking for? Happiness? Satisfaction,? What is the point of it all? ??????strange way to get needs met if that's the point. I am exasperated and troubled at the same time.

@@catherinepatton8699 personally I think this is a spiritual war Catherine. I actually now think Narcissists are spiritually possessed by demons and this is a war against the human family to break families down. Satan does the same slander campaign against God throughout society, throughout history. If you understand that there is an unseen war waging around us that we are drawn into, it all makes sense. Satan hates family as it was instituted by God. Every human being that is saved, replaces a fallen angel. Satan has found the best way to alienate families from each other and also God is to get one member of the family and possess them. That person gets married, has children and creates a cult around themselves. When a narc is worshipped in a family (or feared) they get supply (which is a rush of dopamine to their zombie like emotional state) at the same time the demon gets worshipped instead of God. If you challenge this 'flow' of fear and worship of the narcissist in the family cult then you become scapegoated and victimised. Their goal is to either be worshipped or feared, if you stop given them either of these two things then it kills them. When denied both for a long time they collapse into decomposition. At this point they may commit suicide. I would never push a Narcissist to do this (collapse) as I believe this is just as evil. I think the best is no contact or low contact with enforced boundaries. I am kind with my Narc dad but do not have any illusions and see through love bombing, grooming and triangulation. I don't worship him or fear him. I try to treat him with the same decency and respect as anyone else but I call him out when he goes too far. If he is moaning, I try to lead him to more useful optimistic thinking but I will call him out when he is abusive. It is really hard and I have had huge rows with him even recently due to his treatment of myself and my mother. You see if they don't get a reaction, good or bad, they ramp up the abuse until you snap. They live for supply and will keep torturing you until you give it, either worship or fear (pain). You have to give them an emotion to show they are important. The cannot take apathy, that is the only thing they cannot take. The reason 'grey rock' works is because you are pretending to have catatonia or major depression when you grey rock them. The problem with this is that grey rock leads to real depression! Yes a narcissist will go after other supply when you are depressed but no-one wants to have to be broken down to be left alone. I have found my Christian faith to be the biggest weapon and protection against narcissism. I don't fear them, or worship them and I don't need to grey rock them and go into a depression. I can be myself and be fearless about it. I can even show love to my Narc father, the love he fails to give anyone or receives from anyone as worship that is given through fear is not true love.

I see this exact thing happening between my ex, his ex wife and their tween (now early teen) daughter. He drove a wedge Between mother and daughter. Daughter thinks it is great as she is the special important amd spoiled one. I see the daughter becoming a narc like her father. Its truly sad how the other parent can 'take' your own child from you

I do not know 😢what to do 😢

EXACTLY 💯 % What we r going thru right now....watching our daughter be so sick, entrapped, brainwashed with a Narcissist NARCISSIST FAMILY....evil secrets, pillars of the community and church...😢

You need to show her videos of Dr Ramani regarding Narcissists and she will surely understand if she is 25 years old .

@@KiKi-te9yd again , show your daughter videos on line if Narcissist traits , google Dr Ramani or show her any on line and she will understand what's going on with her dad .

Gross

So is Ross Rosenburg. They both are such genuine, caring teachers. I first learnt about narcissism and SLD from the kind est psychologist I ever knew, Ross.

My family has never help my daughter overcome the years of this abuse.then you understand your sourounded by narcissist who keeps the lies going

Yes I'm experiencing both my grown narcissistic 35 year old daughter is over and my grandson's father is malignant covert she lost custody she's on the streets on drugs and he resents the fact that I had custody from verse to 7 and made him fight me in court when he was released from prison Florida has no grandparents rights I haven't seen my grandson in 4 years it's a pain I cannot describe and I'm so sick of people telling me to get over it he'll come back someday I'm missing everything

@@paulettelamontagne6992 Hi paulette. I hear you. And I validate you. I too, am exhausted hearing the same things that you and ALL ALIENATED parents and grandparents hear. Well you must have done something to anger them. Your daughter couldn't possibly do that to your grandkids, there's got to be a story behind this you're not telling us. Or, Don't worry, they'll come back in time. Just give it time. Move on. Get over it. But boy, they'll be the first ones to say oh happy mother's day. Merry christmas. How's your daughter and grandkids? Pennsylvania has no Grand parental rights either. And CPS is infiltrated with corruption Nationwide. As are our taxpayer employed politicians, as constituents. (we pay their all their salaries, including social services and Human Resource Services). My three grandbabies were alienated from me the day I stopped saying I would help my daughter with money. The day I developed boundaries, and broke codependency and became healthy. I thought the first 3 months of my boundaries she was just trying to learn to adapt to them. But after a year, I found out she had been taking my grandchildren to very unsafe people did I suffered at the hands of as a little child myself. Instead, she went to my predator parents, who give her money, and take my grandbabies down to their second home in the Carolinas. It is repugnant to see narcissist weaponize innocent children. Then, put them in harm's way, instead of a loving caring parent or grandparent. I'm really sorry you are struggling with this too. It's painful. It's grievous. I mourn to this day and it's been only a year and change. Make your own children are nine, 13, and 14 now. I basically raised the 13 year old till he was about six, because his mommy didn't want him, and his heroin addicted Daddy was in jail for over 2 years. CPS doesn't want to hear it. The police don't want to hear it. And the politicians don't want to hear it. And we're paying their salary with our tax dollars. The saddest thing of all..... Most of these children will grow up to become Predators themselves. The very few of them will grow up to become victims of predators.

Mine too! ♥️

Agreed!❤❤❤

That response helps some thanks

Thank you! You as well

You are very welcome!

@@RossRosenberg thanks again fab live as always Dr.!

Rich and poor, Christian and non-Chritian, male or female it's the same demon-spirit Jezebel we all are dealing with, call it narc call it whatever it lies, deceives, manipulates, makes false accusations, malign, sabotaged, slanders, alienates, hates, and tries to murder the innocent.only God can fight for us, only Yeshuah can sustain us and keep us sane and fill us with peace. I don't mean to be preachy but that's how I'm winning this war against me & my children and grandchildren. It's the hardest, longest, most debilitating, costly fight I've had to fight for over 35 years of my best productive life all the way into my senior years but I made peace with God, after all He gave me the children and grandchildren hence they belong to Him anyway. I know God is able and He knows best for each of us.

Anne, if you are still a believer you will know that this is spiritual warfare, it is demonic. Just as you said, it is to push people away from Jesus Christ. If you can actually live like Jesus Christ through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit you can witness to others, your children, that you truly know God unlike these pastors. I will add your name to my prayer list sister. I am about to start a ministry to help Christians who have been abused like this. Keep fighting the good fight of faith sister! The truth will out, Jesus has already won this battle!

You are getting hurt and upset anyway and no contact will free you from all of it .

@@rondasparks ~Its hard to say 'if', but cutting my Mom off would have taken its toll on me in other ways~Its a lose-lose situation~

Wow!! Thanks

It might happen in some cases. But if you read the comments, you see that here are real victims of Parental Alienation. Your comment is inappropriate in this context. We suffer from this totally stupid denial of Bruch&Co of PA as it does not get recogized in court worldwide. Thanks to these insidious people it got even delisted from ICD-11 as they wrongly claim it is junk science - which is absolutely not true.

My attorney said to take them to a psychiatrist and use the documentation to take them back to court !

I’m sorry you’re going through this. I’m praying for a good outcome for you and your kids in Jesus name! ❤